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Halo Reach's Forge 2.0: Superhuge map, Parts, Objective Objects

FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
edited August 2010 in Games and Technology
This deserves it's own thread. Partly because I think people that didn't play much of 3 or 3's Forge mode need to see this. Partly because explaining it all is too big to fit into the general Halo discussion thread's OP. Lastly, because I'd like to have a thread where we feature PA Reach Forge creations (a little more than a month away!)
Halo Reach's Forge "2.0"
First, watch the vidoc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCcmrL29WII

Now, watch the Comic Con presentation of Forge, complete with crowd reactions: (might have to skip ahead in the first part of the first video if you don't care about Firefight)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBwPVCdbcuY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEBuUj4GEI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmEH6Cn-QEQ



What Reach's Forge IS

* A real-time object editor, like Halo 3's Forge
* Supports up to 8 players in one Forge session via splitscreen, LAN, or Xbox Live
* Allows you to edit what an objective destination is
* Allows you to define safe-volumes and kill-volumes
* Allows you to edit all versus multiplayer maps
* Vastly improved over Halo 3's version


What Reach's Forge IS NOT

* A campaign editor
* A Firefight map editor
* A "full geometry editor" like Far Cry 2's map editor.


"Well", you might say. "That just looks like the same Forge from 3 then. What's the point of caring about this?" There are a lot of reasons to care about it. A lot are outlined in the videos above, but here is the text version!


Forge World: A Forge-Centric Map

Remember that remake of Blood Gulch/Coag that Bungie revealed back on Bungie Day? Yeah, that's just about 1/5th of the entirety of Forge World.
Reach_MP_Hemorrhage01.jpg
The "Gulch" section of Forge World

Everything you see inside the canyon is a Forge object. The bases, vehicles, and even the rocks embedded into the ground are Forge Objects, which I will now refer to as FOs. The geometry of this section of the map is an up-res'd version of Coagulation from Halo 2. The bases are based off Halo 1.

But you don't even have to use this part of Forge World if you want. By the way, the great thing about Forge World? It's a disc map. Meaning unlike Foundry and Sandbox from 3, every single Halo: Reach player will be able to play your custom maps.
Reach_Forgeworld01.jpg
The Coliseum - Sandbox Crypt's bigger, badder brother

Prefer to make a more technical map? Like Grifball? This location (remember, we're still on the same multiplayer level!) will suit your needs. Slightly bigger than the Crypt from 3's Sandbox, this is your symmetrical box area to create maps in. This is probably the area you're going to see the most maps in, especially for MLG and other "hardcore" maps and 4v4 maps.
Reach_Forgeworld02.jpg
The Island - Minus polar bears and mysterious smoke

The screenshots don't really show you how big some of these areas are. The Island by itself can support 8v8 BTB games. It's kind of set up like a horseshoe-map so you can play Avalanche/Sidewinder esque maps on it. You're probably not going to see many maps here - BTB maps are quite the time investment. However, there will be a map on the Reach disc that uses this area, which I will cover later on.

Reach_Forgeworld05.jpg
The Rock - Can you smell what your mind is cooking?

This area is probably one of the more simple ones of Forge World, intended for "in the air" maps without having to spend budget on making the platform to put them on. You can see the Island area in the background of that screenshot. Once again, the sense of scale is not there - a player standing on the rock would show up as a dot. There's actually two disc variants that use this area for remakes.

Not pictured is the flat outside "Small Canyon", great for making outdoor themed maps.

Forge World's base version is actually blank, and will have multiple variants included on the Reach disc. So you can decide on launch day whether you want to start fresh or build off existing maps.


I've Got the Tools

In Halo 3, FOs are a bitch to work with. Unless you know all the glitches and tricks, trying to get pieces to go where you want is a pain in the butt. Trying to nudge something will result in the block jumping ten feet. Having to work from the middle of a Block Huge to adjust something from one of endpoints.

No more. Reach has made this easier with various tools for editing scenery objects:

Camera Control

Instead of an object being pulled towards you whenever you grab it, grabbing an object now makes it the center of your orbit.


Physics Properties

- Normal: The object will act like Halo 3 FOs. Falls over/reacts to geometry and other objects.

- Fixed: The object will react to other objects while you hold it. However, when you let go it will freeze in place. No more needing to build pieces in a tower then placing your floating object, or using the "Save and Quit" glitch. Just put it where you need it and let go.

- Phased: The object will clip into world geometry and other objects. Great for making cliff maps, ledges, or if you only want the top half of an object sticking out of the ground. Also great for the rock objects and other scenery. Once you let go of a Phased object, it will freeze in location.


Object Movement

- Slowmode: Clicking the left stick in will zoom in and reduce the stick sensitivity dramatically. Good for making minor changes.

- Coordinate nudging: Move an object along the X, Y, or Z axis (and X,Y,Z) rotation by world units, down to a tenth of a world unit.

- Snap degrees: Want to make a big ramp but don't want to find out the correct angle each time? You can set it so an object snaps to degrees, whether that is 15 degrees or 90 degrees.

- Global Snap degree: Makes it so all objects snap to the degree you specify. Good for quickly making a map where you want all the objects to be perfectly aligned.

- Reset Position: Resets an object to the original default orientation if you need to start over.


Object Modification

- Color: Most useful for the Structure FOs on Forge World. Will colorize the object (if that object supports it) to the color you specify. For example, you can set the color that the Gulch bases glow with this parameter. However, you can even color vehicles like the Mongooses, Falcons, or Hogs to show that they belong to a certain team. Note that this does not prevent a Red Team player from driving a Blue mongoose, it's just for show.

- Delete All Of This Object: Quickly delete all objects of one type. Most useful for if you want to clear a map's spawn points or vehicles or anything, really.

- Objective: Most objects will also be able to be defined as an objective location. As demonstrated in the Vidoc, you can make a Warthog a moving hill. You can make a bomb arm point a soccer ball. And so on.

Player Containment

- Safe Zone: A giant box thingy that you put over the map to define the playable area you want. When players exit it, they'll get a "You have 10 seconds to return to the battlefield" warning. Want to make the Gulch base or a room on Sword Base the only place you want to be without having to build a wall out of objects? Doable.

- Kill Volume: Safe Zone's evil, bearded twin. When players touch one of these, they will instantly die. Great for making floating Lockout-style maps that kill you when you fall off them. Or if you just want to be an ass and still a kill volume in the middle of Blood Gulch and laugh when players accidentally drive through it.

Forge World Palette

Reach_ForgeworldObjects.jpg
Your paint bucket of doom. Click for big resolution.

Player spawns

- Team spawns (visualized as holographic spartans), setable to any team color
- FFA spawns (visualized as white holographic spartans)
- Starting points


Vehicles (with known limit)

- Scorpion (4)
- Falcon (8)
- Mongoose
- Warthog, Chain
- Warthog, Gauss
- Warthog, Rocket
- Ghost
- Revenant
- Banshee

All vehicles can be assigned as an objective point (hill, etc)


Weapons

- All weapons in Halo Reach are available on all maps (and all weapons are available as starting weapons)


Structure

- 1x1 block
- 1x2 block
- 1x3 block
- etc..
- Tower from Ascension
- Camo tower from Zanzibar/Last Resort
- Dish from Ascension
- Ramps
- Bridges
- You get the idea, there's over 170 objects in Structure alone for Forge World


Toys

- Dice
- Golf Ball
- Golf Club
- Tin Cup
- Soccer Ball


Special FX (like Forge Filters from H3)

- Old Timey (now with film streak/tear effect)
- Next Gen
- Colorblind
- Pen & Ink
- Nova
- Purple (effectively turns Forge World into a night map)
- Green

Teleporters

- The teleportation radius is now user-definable
- Teleporters can now teleport vehicles
- Teleporter can be set to only allow infantry teleporting, or only land vehicles, or only flying vehicles, or any combination thereof
- So for example, you can put a teleporter behind a wall that looks like a garage door opening, expand it's radius past the wall, and have vehicles drive into it to magically disappear
- Or teleport people around your race track, but not allow them to do it on foot!


Objectives

- Flags
- Bombs
- Oddballs
- Hills
- Territories
- Juggernaut Go-To Points
- Headhunter Capture Points
- Race Checkpoints


Other Stuff

- Killball

The Results

The new tools are so easy that Bungie ate their own food and made some of the shipping variants of Forge World with the in-game tool.

Of course, they did some remakes.

Recognize this map?

Reach_MP_Pinnacle01.jpg
Reach_MP_Pinnacle04.jpg

It's Ascension from Halo 2, renamed "Pinnacle". Made entirely with Forge.

Here's an original map from the creator of Lockout and Guardian, named "The Cage":

Reach_MP_theCage04.jpg
Reach_MP_theCage05.jpg

Also made entirely with the in-game tools.

Not pictured is a remake of Sanctuary from Halo 2, remade using the "Outdoor Pocket " area (can be seen in the vidoc)


By the way? You gain in-game Reach credits from Forging.

Just remember to tag your creations "paforum" when you upload them in Reach so that it's easier for me to find them and post them up.

FyreWulff on
«1345

Posts

  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2010
    Reserved for when the OP will move to post 2 to make way for PA Forum map listings

    FyreWulff on
  • Ratsult2Ratsult2 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    My first goal for forgeworld will be to set up a series of teleporters that will get a warthog moving fast enough, that when it exits the last teleporter, it will be launched from one end of the map to the other.

    Ratsult2 on
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2010
    Also, you can't do custom callouts unfortunately. Ferrex (Bungie employee) answered someone's question:
    Ferrex wrote:
    Is their anything on callouts? Can you disable them for custom maps and stuff? Or even better place your own?
    Can't place your own, unfortunately. That was something we wanted to do, but didn't make it through the final trim and polish process.

    FyreWulff on
  • LeoniusLeonius Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Marking this thread. Also can't wait to get hands on Forge 2.0. My first action? Editing Hemorrhage to halo 1 weapon style weapon placements and making a custom Halo 1 gametype with indestructible vehicles you can drive with the flag - if possible excluding the ghost or disabling ghost-boost. Nostalgia here I come!

    My second project? TF2 style classes if I can pull it off. God I wish they'd just put out a demo with forge world forge so I could have something done for release.

    How will community map approval work? The update says they have tools, but does that mean it will just be atlas again?

    Leonius on
    steam_sig.png
  • ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    The NextGen filter is hilarious.

    Arrath on
    cj iwakura wrote:
    Making for Oregon is suicide, as DOS games have shown.
  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    You could probably do TF2

    Spy: Camo or Projecion / Energy Sword
    Sniper: Sniper Rifle
    heavy: Turret
    Demoman: Grenade Launcher
    Soldier: Rockets
    Scout: Sprint / Shotgun
    Pyro: Flamethrower

    Only problem would be medic and enginner

    It probably wouldn't be balanced :P

    Dox the PI on
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2010
    There's a massive Forge QA on bungie.net right now that is being answered. I'll collect them in a bit if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

    Also, you can set the loadouts on the ground, so you could put your 'classes' on the ground, enforcing a limit of each.

    Also confirmed is that you can delay teleporter spawns, so "ready rooms" are also possible.

    FyreWulff on
  • Renegade WolfRenegade Wolf Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Dox the PI wrote: »
    You could probably do TF2

    Spy: Camo or Projecion / Energy Sword
    Sniper: Sniper Rifle
    heavy: Turret
    Demoman: Grenade Launcher
    Soldier: Rockets
    Scout: Sprint / Shotgun
    Pyro: Flamethrower

    Only problem would be medic and enginner

    It probably wouldn't be balanced :P

    Medic could have Drop Shield. Dunno about the enginner.

    Renegade Wolf on
  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    There's a massive Forge QA on bungie.net right now that is being answered. I'll collect them in a bit if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

    Also, you can set the loadouts on the ground, so you could put your 'classes' on the ground, enforcing a limit of each.

    Also confirmed is that you can delay teleporter spawns, so "ready rooms" are also possible.

    We have to recreate TF2, IT CAN BE DONE!

    Dox the PI on
  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Scarf Prince Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Medic would be Needler/Needle Rilfe with Dome Shield.

    Emerlmaster999 on
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Just watched the Forge 2.0 video.
    HOOOOLEEEEEEEE
    SHIIIIIIIIT
    !!!!!!!!
    Seriously, what a way to absolutely shame other developers. Looks like Bungie has put some incredible effort into that sucker. Looks like you could easily create an endless supply of closed-in maps which you could never tell were just a subset of a huge outdoor map. Hell, a dedicated person could probably create an entire mini-campaign out of those tools on that map.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • Renegade WolfRenegade Wolf Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I know what I'm going to make in Forge World.
    Helms Deep.

    Renegade Wolf on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Oh, they are trying this again.

    It'll probably mirror my gaming groups experiences with the first Forge.

    Dick around for ten minutes, realize this is incredibly lame, go back to shooting people on the regular maps.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I know what I'm going to make in Forge World.
    Helms Deep.

    Invasion Mode:
    Stage 1: Elites (Uruk-Hai) plant the bomb
    Stage 2: team Death match
    Sage 3: Capture the final point

    Dox the PI on
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Oh, they are trying this again.

    It'll probably mirror my gaming groups experiences with the first Forge.

    Dick around for ten minutes, realize this is incredibly lame, go back to shooting people on the regular maps.

    Man, you are the worst person. Not just Mister Negative, just outright Doctor Negative. You are so negative you have a PhD. Congratulations.

    Anyway, I want a game of Pop Goes the Weasel. Network of tunnels with intermittent openings, one guy stuck in a tower in the center with a rocket launcher and armor lock, and he has to kill the weasels before they can pop out and kill him. Or forget the tower, give the guy a hammer, and keep him out of the tunnels so he can only smash people when they stick their heads out.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2010
    Collected and collated from Bungie.net:

    http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=46602215&postRepeater1-p=1


    Posted by: Grenades hurt
    Small question for Ferrex and I know you've had a ton, but the Blood Gulch part and the island, spire, colosseum and cliff all of it, or is there more?

    Ferrex
    Those are the major landmarks, but it's basically all one contiguous space. There's beaches, a variety of good sized clifftops, lots of cliff faces (the Lockout remake is built in one of those in particular), so it's sort of misleading to say "there's five spaces". It's actually been kind of challenging to pick out a good spot to build some of the maps I'm interested in doing, mainly from a scenery POV.



    Posted by: H0STILE WAFFLE
    In Forge World, are there still items that have yet to be discussed?

    Ferrex
    There's still a few neat objects we haven't explicitly shown off yet.



    Posted by: Hayabusawarrior
    Is their anything on callouts? Can you disable them for custom maps and stuff? Or even better place your own?

    Ferrex
    Can't place your own, unfortunately. That was something we wanted to do, but didn't make it through the final trim and polish process.



    Posted by: Homeboyd903
    Ferrex:

    The tunnel in the rock on the island (@ 2:19 in the Vidoc).. does it lead anywhere within the rock? i.e. interior rooms? or just the other side of the rock?

    Also, will all Forge World objects be available for all multiplayer maps? Or will there be map-specific objects?

    And finally.. are you guys working on any more Forge World variants that will be available Sept 14 that we havent seen?

    Ferrex
    The tunnel leads to the other side. It's not a major interior structure (that's what the Coliseum space is for!)

    Not all of the Forge World objects are available on all of the maps, mainly due to memory limitations (remember, physical size != memory. Forge World was very intelligently built and optimized to be large but leave a lot of memory free for objects.) But the other maps still have a ton of build potential.

    As for more variants, we'll see. :)



    Posted by: Mestizo X5
    When making hemorrhage did you guys keep the travel times (ex walking from one base to another) close to the original blood gulch?

    Ferrex
    That was not a specific requirement, since I believe the movement speeds are different between Reach and CE. But you can tweak that in custom game settings if you're shooting for a very classic feel (jump height too.)



    Posted by: deathknight2601
    I have a question for you;

    In Halo 3 there was an object limit aswell as a budget limit, how many total objects will you be able to place in Forgeworld? Has it been removed and you must now simply stay within budget?

    Ferrex
    The absolute object limit is still there, but it is higher now. I can't remember exactly where we left it, because it really ultimately depended on how much memory we had available.

    Note that objects originally on the map no longer permanently count against that limit (which is why some clever authors would save and re-use those original objects.) That old bug is fixed.



    Posted by: SnideDeemonator
    if there was A.I, i would make a huge battle scene in forge world with the covenent spawning in the gulch and you(the humans) spawning in the indoor place with the humans attacking the empty base by falcons and the covenent fighting back.

    thats a sign for I NEED A.I!!!

    Ferrex
    Hate to burst any bubbles, but Forge is an MP only mode, and that means no AI of any flavor. Sorry!



    Posted by: spawn031
    Ferrex:

    In the Red V Blue video released on Bungie day, there is a portion in the background that is a giant wall. Later in the same video the wall doesn't appear there. I assume this is because of a teaser from Bungie (go figure :D), but my question is there even MORE to this forge world that we havent seen?

    IE Going down that path we haven't seen yet?

    Ferrex
    If my memory serves me, that wall was blocking off the path out of Hemorrhage, which leads down a tunnel, onto the beach, and across a stretch of shallow water to the Island.

    All of which is drivable on a land vehicle, of course, and makes for a terrific setting for an epic length race course.



    Posted by: welshy
    ferrex!!.
    can i divert the flow of a waterfall so that i can make a waterslide.
    seriously i need to know if you can divert/dam the water.

    Ferrex
    Afraid not. It's just part of the decor, not actually physically simulated water. Heck, if we could do that, it'd be all over the place! :)



    Posted by: Homeboyd903
    You mentioned wanting to have weather effects but didnt have time to add them:

    For future DLC purposes, is it possible to offer new Forge Worlds built in different environments with new tools (like weather effects) added?

    Ferrex
    It's possible. The DLC guys on H3 added some sweet new stuff like the screen filters and lights, and we hadn't been planning on those.

    No guarantee that it'll happen, though.



    Posted by: ballsofsteel
    Okay,
    Hey ferrex!Do we still have those small scenery forge objects like in halo 3(unsc backpacks,barrels,camping stool,radio sets...)?

    Ferrex
    I believe those are on some of the maps. I can't recall offhand if Forge World has them, though. More of a Forerunner palette there, and the top priority for object memory was including structural pieces (and lots of them.)



    Posted by: CheatcodeDelta32
    the weekly update didn't really answer the question of how deep does water have to be to kill you, because the definition of shallow varies depending on how you look at it.

    so, can your SPARTAN be fully engulfed in water? or is it to the chest, as in, your head is sticking out.

    Ferrex
    Our rule of thumb is that if your camera (head) goes under water, you're in too deep and we want you dead. That usually means water is either shallower than that, or deeper than that (like Relic, it doesn't slope away smoothly, it drops off sharply.)

    This is more due to our desire to avoid having players hiding under water during MP games as anything technical.



    Posted by: Tiny ninjaa
    ferrex, do grav lifts and mancannons still affect other objects when you're placing them?

    Ferrex
    They do.



    Posted by: lex255
    2 questions XD
    1- Can we remake Zanzibar aka Last Resort on Forge world??

    2- Troop hog and civilians vehics we will able to forge them on Forge world?

    sry for my bad eng

    Ferrex
    1. I'm sure someone will do a pretty credible job of it.

    2. Unfortunately, the civilian vehicles didn't make the final Forge World palette. Including Forky. On the upside, every combat vehicle did (except the Saber. Forge World is big, but not "outer space" big. Sorry to burst that bubble.



    Posted by: deathknight2601

    I have another question Ferrex

    In the ViDoc you can clearly see the large Forrunner building in the far distance on the big mountain, is it possible to reach there? Or are there "Return to Battlefield" Borders everywhere?

    Ferrex
    I think that structure is actually out of bounds (it's right beside the edge of the geometry, which we vainly but determinedly try to hide from equally determined explorers. Gotta make it challenging, at least!)



    Posted by: Hylebos
    Are there are objects like Sandbox's "Large Block" in Forgeworld's object list? If so, what are their dimensions in World Units? Knowing how long, wide, and high one of these cubes are would help me plan out maps prior to Release (thanks to the coordinate system)

    Ferrex
    There are analogues of pretty much every Sandbox piece, I believe. I don't have the exact dimensions, though. Multiples of 10' would be a safe bet.



    Posted by: linkfan107
    1 of my questions from last night was can you put health packs into object wile still being available to use
    ex put a health pack in a cardboard box.

    Ferrex
    I don't see any reason that wouldn't work, but you wouldn't be able to see if the Health Pack was there or not.



    Posted by: Dont pass gass
    question for ferrex, in the new forge world and other places when you phase an object through the ground say for example and open container does it still have that big opening or does the ground just fill it up?

    Ex tunnels under ground... that would be cool if you could.

    Ferrex
    The ground would fill it up. Doing boolean operations on the environment based on object placement would be really cool, but probably also really hard. :)



    Posted by: Gamer Stix
    How big is the quarry area (the "small outdoor pocket" above the colloseum) compared to areas we've played on before?

    Ferrex
    Precisely as large as Sanctuary.



    Posted by: Saxophone18
    Will there be different themes for different maps?

    What I mean is will there be covenant scenery in a covenant map, human scenery in a human map, etc..

    Ferrex
    Generally speaking, yes. There's a lot of shared objects, too.



    Posted by: Boss of OWNAGE
    Ferrex, is there any special options we get with the weapons?
    I.E Halo 3 we could change the amount of extra clips.

    What is in the Gadgets category?

    EDIT Another question. Can you change the spawn time of teleporters now? So they spawn later?

    Ferrex
    You can still set the number of Clips for placed weapons.

    Gadgets contains stuff like Teleporters, Man Cannons, and other toys.

    And yep, Teleporters can be given a spawn time, if you want to mark one as "Not Placed At Start" and have it spawn in after that spawn time.



    Posted by: Bionic Juice
    What percentage of the Forge objects are "movable"?

    (As in I can go up to it and move it with several melee attacks.)

    Ferrex
    None (or almost none) of the big structural objects. Smaller sandbox objects, like Fusion Coils or Space Crates, can be moved around as long as they're not set to Fixed or Phased physics.



    Posted by: Zomechin
    How far away can you go out of the main map? Is there a non-deletable death barrier or invisible somewhere out there?

    Also, does the Forge moniter travel much more quickly now, or is it going to take you a while to travel across the map?

    Ferrex
    There is a non-deletable boundary + soft ceiling barrier, but it's pretty far out there. There's lots of room to build almost anything without bumping into them.

    And the Monitor's boost has been greatly increased, which allows him to cover the map pretty rapidly. Shish verbally abused me every time I talked to him until we got that in.



    Posted by: Alex048
    Ferrex, can we still make SAW maps using powerups? If they're gone, is there something to replace the Custom powerup?

    Ferrex
    Custom Powerups are still available. I think you can even place more of them now.



    Posted by: Tiny ninjaa
    Is the lack of terrain editing because the reach engine wasn't built for it (dynamic lighting and stuff) or just because there wasn't enough time to implement it?

    Ferrex
    Both. Wasn't built for it, and there was no time to change that to implement it. Would sure be nice, though. I loved the mesh editing tools we had on Myth, makes terrain editing a snap. Not this time around, alas.



    Posted by: P3P5I
    Hello Ferrex,

    Is the respawn limit for objects increased?

    i.e. the max time an object would disappear for in Halo 3 Forge was 180 seconds. Has the time increased?

    Ferrex
    Believe it's the same as H3. I don't recall increasing that number.



    Posted by: d Fusion b
    Lil question for ferrex just to specify. I read in the weekly update how lighting was one of the main limitations of Forge World, and Objects within it. Is that why Objects (Other than interactive ones like Vehicles and Flags) don't cast shadows?

    Ferrex
    Technical limitations. Shadow casting is relatively expensive and so we can only do it on so many objects at a time. We find the best use of them is for moving objects, so things like vehicles and flags take priority.

    If you're only looking structure pieces, though, they will shadow normally. There's also some sweet self shadowing based on a different bit of technical magic that is always applied to them, and really helps make the bunkers and interiors look sweet.



    Posted by: Slayer Lord
    Ferrex, just wondering, can we apply colour settings to any vehicle to specify them for, say a teams base?

    Or does it only apply to mongooses in rocket race?

    Ferrex
    I believe only the Mongooses got the color change treatment. I gather it was sort of a whimsical thing that one of the artists did on his own time, and not how the rest of the vehicle art was set up. :(



    Posted by: xIguana117x

    Is there a certain limitation to how far an object can be phased into the geometry or other objects? So, could I push a block all the way through the terrain? If so, how would one go about deleting it?

    Also, could you place an object and fix it into the sky, then set it to normal so that it spawns in the sky and falls?

    Thirdly, can you take a picture of your creation and set it as the map icon that displays in the pre-game lobby?

    Ferrex
    Once an object is completely out of the environment, it can't be pushed any further. If you release it, it'll actually just vanish (since you wouldn't be able to select it again to delete it.)

    And yes, objects can be placed in the sky but left with Normal physics so that they fall.

    No preview images, unfortunately. We had a plan for that (using screenshots), but didn't get to do that one. :(



    Posted by: Ronald_W_4
    In the Gadgets menu, I saw a thing called explosives. Does this mean fusion coils and mines? or does this mean that I can make an explosion happen every 10 seconds here (for example)

    Ferrex
    Just Mines, Fusion Coils, and their ilk.



    Posted by: in the Krutch
    Is it possible to forge "beyond the canyon" in other maps, such as Powerhouse?

    For example, in theory, could I create an entirely new map beyond the death boundaries of the default Powerhouse map?

    Is there enough budget to do this?

    Ferrex
    Unfortunately, other maps like Powerhouse weren't built with the sort of wide-open spaces in mind that Forge World was, so their boundaries are quite a bit tighter (and for gameplay purposes, inaccessible. I'm sure some adventurers are going to manage to get out there and take sweet screenshots, though.)



    Posted by: Plasma Prestige
    There are two features of Forge that really have me confused, and no one has provided me with an adequate answer. I'd really appreciate it being answered:

    How do the rotation snaps and coordinates work exactly? For example, when the rotation snap is to 90 degrees, is the object "un-rotatable" and will say fixed to make it easier to align? I'm having trouble grasping the concept of rotation snapping. Also, what do each option under the coordinates do? I saw pitch, yaw, roll etc and had no idea what it was.

    Thanks in advance.

    Ferrex
    Rotation Constraints basically lock the object's orientation (on all three axes) to a multiple of that number. So if you set 90 degrees, then the object will rotate in 90 degree steps. It's really pretty simple once you use it.

    And under Coordinates, you can directly adjust the rotation on the pitch, yaw, and roll axes too. Makes some things easier, like building curved ramps.



    Posted by: Paradoxed
    What makes you determine how many of a certain vehicle/object are on a map at once. I saw that you said that only 4 scorpions can be on forge world at once, yet 8 falcons could be on it.

    Why couldn't their be 10 tanks, for instance, so long as you have the room and budget for it?

    Ferrex
    Different vehicles have different performance profiles. The tanks, for example, have lots of contact "friction" points with the ground that causes them to be relatively expensive. Four tanks, for example, are more expensive in terms of CPU time than 8+ Warthogs.

    Rendering-wise, they're also a bit more expensive.



    Posted by: SonOfTheShire
    Hey ferrex, what is Forge like on other maps, such as Swordbase?

    Could I go on to Swordbase and spawn up some crates and ONI black boxes, and maybe delete the mancannon in the centre of the map? I noticed that while playing CTF on Swordbase the lifts were turned off and blocked at the top; was this something done in Forge?

    In Halo 3 maps with loads of airspace -such as Snowbound- rarely had air vehicles; has this been rectified in Reach?

    Finally, some people more observant than I noticed a Shade turret in one of the Forgeworld screenshots. Is there a UNSC counterpart?

    Ferrex
    Forge World vs. some of the other maps is really very much like the differences between, say, editing Sandtrap and editing Sandbox. Fewer (but still lots of) options on the normal maps, in exchange for a more unique and custom environment.

    And sadly, there's no standalone UNSC turret like the Shade. The art for a fixed Warthog turret base was one of the casualties of the late stage cut and polish phase. There are some clever ways to use Warthogs for that purpose, though.



    Posted by: BandicootIsWhite
    Will we be able to customise more things in forge like jump speed and loadouts (weapons and AAs)? I'm asking because this would make the testing of my jump maps 1000x easier :D

    Also, i'm sneaking in another one... are power-ups available in forge like custom, overshield, camo etc...?

    Ferrex
    Yes, and yes.



    Posted by: TorontoFan14
    Can we spawn non-drivable vehicles for scenery in Forge?
    Ex: Pelican, Scarab, Longsword.

    Ferrex
    No, we didn't really have the memory to spare for vehicles which couldn't be driven. Even Forky didn't make the grade. :(



    Posted by: Crashkon
    Can you still place normal powerups like the overshield/custom powerup?

    Do the map effects (juicy, gloomy, etc) have an option to a effect only a part of the map?

    Ferrex
    Unfortunately, and despite a great last minute suggestion by Shish and Cam, the filters remain map wide. (Their suggestion was to limit the effect to the Object Boundary, which was ingenious but too late for us to add the new feature. Dang.)



    Posted by: Bionic Juice
    I noticed some "Camera" looking objects they where above spawns and usually the same color....what are those?

    Ferrex
    Those are the viewpoint you see from while selecting loadouts. Sort of like the pre-game view of the map.



    Posted by: External Memory
    Will we be able to restrict editing to the party leader/host only for real this go around, and can we make ourselves actually invulnerable to anything a mere Spartan can throw at us while in monitor mode?

    I know I'm not the only one who'd love to be able to leave the party and game open while a work's in progress so friends can drop in to give feedback (without having worry about griefing too much).

    Ferrex
    While you can make yourself invulnerable to the puny Spartans, we didn't set up the "Host Editor Only" feature this time around. It was a non-trivial addition, and, well, H3 ended up doing alright without it (man that was embarrassing.)



    Posted by: menotyou135
    If you drop a ball off of a forge map, does it sit on the bottom floor and do you have to wait for it to reset, or is there a way to actually make a gametype where you can play ball?

    Ferrex
    The Oddballs, Flags, and their ilk now reset when they hit a kill volume. The MP team had strong sauce this time.


    Posted by: Reykjavik
    A couple questions:

    Is the 'earthquake' effect fixed (where when you rotated on object, saved the map, and reloaded it, it would be rotated slightly differently)?

    Will all vehicles be available on all maps? You might not think it is a good idea to put a scorpion on lockout, but others might want to.

    Will there be a decent amount of objects for every map, not just Forgeworld (compare Sandbox to Standoff in terms of available objects)?

    Forge was pretty glitchy in Halo 3, especially when it came to the objects that originally spawned on the map, have those issues been addressed?

    Thanks for all the answers, I appreciate it.

    Ferrex
    The "earthquake" (a quantization error) is fixed.

    Not all vehicles will be available on all maps, but we try to get all of the relevant ones we can on as many maps as we can. It comes down to memory constraints more than whether or not we think a vehicle is appropriate for the map (exception: flying vehicles are limited based on whether or not we think the map boundaries can support it.)

    All of the maps have a pretty wide selection of objects, but not on the order of Sandbox or Forge World. Maps like that need to be very light on memory footprint to make room for all of the objects, and the main way we do that is cutting down textures and lightmaps, which doesn't work for every space.

    Most of the issues I'm aware of with objects already on the map (especially their counting against the object limit despite being deleted) have been fixed.


    Posted by: Rand0m TAG
    so ferrex, can we adjust how weapons spawn? such as if we want the weapon to spawn exactly every 2minutes, instead of having it done the way halo 3 has it setup

    Ferrex
    Afraid not. It's not how we really intended to handle weapon spawning, so the object respawning logic isn't really built with that in mind.



    Posted by: DannySpud

    What's the biggest thing that got cut from forge, and why?

    Ferrex
    Probably support for devices (doors, lifts, switches, et cetera.) The feature came in very late, wasn't tested to our satisfaction, and when we looked at all the maps that had already been built without requiring lots of doors, switches, and stuff, it became very hard to justify creating and testing a lot of device objects to our level of satisfaction. So, that feature got pruned so that we could concentrate on more important stuff (like camera controls.)



    Posted by: nick19100
    Will objects that are selected with physics move every time a force is applied, or only when being placed?

    For instance, I place an object with physics properties, will it continue to move after I place it?

    Ferrex
    Many large (like, structural) pieces will not move once you place it and let it come to rest. Smaller objects, like crates or fusion coils, will move if you set the physics to Normal, but won't move if you set the physics to Fixed.



    Posted by: halo3genius
    I'm sorry if this question has already been asked before, but are the FX included on every map now?

    Ferrex
    Yep.



    Posted by: Cewpar
    Did you guys test this stuff on split screen? I know merged stuff freaked out all the time and those red and blue lights on sandbox rarely worked on splitscreen in halo 3.

    Ferrex
    We did. And the reason the lights didn't work consistently is because splitscreen culls out lights way more aggressively (for perf reasons.) I believe that is less true now, but don't quote me on it. (Hah, right.)



    Posted by: Z105
    Did you guys fix that "Ignore the money limit" glitch they they used in Halo 3? I'm not sure it would be need to be used, but I'm curious as to whether you fixed that or left it there for people.

    Ferrex
    Yes, we fixed it. But, I have a lunch bet riding on the community figuring out some other glitch that lets them do it anyway. Never underestimate the community, IMO. :)



    Posted by: Crashkon
    I was wondering, The rotational nudges, do they apply to the object's axis, or the map's axis. For example, if you were to rotate an object 30 degrees on x, will this affect further rotations, such as a rotational nudge on y? I would hope they're based on the object's axis, and thanks for answering so many questions.

    Ferrex
    The constraints are on the map/world axes. The smaller constraints can get a little strange when you're rotating on multiple axes, but that seemed like a fair tradeoff to us for the improvement to the much more common case of single axis rotation.


    Posted by: Conkerkid11
    Will there be a limit towards how many credits we can earn during forge?

    Ferrex
    There is a limit per session, but not a lifetime limit.



    Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
    Lets say I had a boundry set around the canyon, but I have a teleporter that goes to the rock.

    Could I set a second kill zone there, so the teleporter would be the only usable means of getting there?

    Ferrex
    Yep. You can have multiple Safe Zones, even if they're disjoint. As long as the player is inside one of them, he's Safe.



    Posted by: A Soul Gone Bad
    How large is the interior? And how many separate areas/rooms are there in the interior?

    Ferrex
    I think it's around 3x as wide as a Grifball court, and 1x as long. It's pretty large, but there's large wall objects to block off parts.

    Square walls, floors, and joins too! Yay!



    Posted by: deathknight2601
    In Halo 3 when the lights were introduced in DLC, they were very limited and you could only place 2
    In Forgeworld can you place more than 2? Plus can you edit the light radius? Just like a hill?

    Ferrex
    Still limited to 2, and of fixed radius I'm afraid. Lights can be really expensive depending on the scene, and we really didn't want to have a situation where lots of overlapping lights were killing framerate (while the author wondered why. "But it worked fine when I'm the only person there!")



    Posted by: a Recovery

    When you enter a Teleporter, do you exit facing the same direction you were walking in? Say for example you were walking in backwards, would you exit facing the receiving teleporter? This was really bugging me and a bunch of players in Halo 3.

    Ferrex
    Yes, teleporters now work this way (instead of the Halo 3 way of always aligning to the receiver facing.) I do worry that this is going to be confusing for novice map authors, but Jon convinced me that it was for the best in the long run. He's your man.



    Posted by: SlayersBane
    If you wanted to forge on a completely flat landscape larger than the coliseum, what would be the best way to approach that? Would you simply forge the ground in the water? Or would it be best to phase ground objects into bumpy terrain and level it out?

    Also, how large exactly is that giant wall forge piece? Knowing this will give me an idea of how easy it will be to create a flat landscape and remake maps such as The Pit. (Assuming The Coliseum is too small of a space for it. Is it?)

    Ferrex
    Probably your best bet would be to use the large wall pieces to create a flat field out over the water, or extend the Coliseum space out.

    But The Pit might actually fit in the Coliseum. I've never measured, but it seems like it ought to.



    Posted by: Plasma Prestige
    Are we given enough freedom in Forge with dynamic objectives as to assimilate an Invasion map with proper settings?

    Furthermore, can we force people to be Spartans/Elites for certain teams/roles?

    Ferrex
    You should be able to completely set up (or re-arrange) an Invasion map. And Invasion itself has a bunch of sweet options to change things up too.

    Can't force teams, though. That's handled by the game type, not Forge.



    Posted by: xxBoba Fettxx

    Hello Ferrex, I have a question pertaining to if you can be an elite in forge or custom games? Or if you are forced to be a spartan?

    Ferrex
    Depends on the game. You can be an Elite in Forge though.



    Posted by: Conkerkid11
    Ferrex,

    Will the target designator featured in Invasion become an item in the forge pallete, or is it limited to just Invasion?

    Ferrex
    It is not limited to Invasion (it's in Firefight too), but it is limited to certain maps. It's not in Forge World, unfortunately.



    Posted by: RH Shade
    Hey Ferrex, i have a few questions about forge world.

    1. In the Vidoc, there looked to be some giant walkway-like structure under the water, is that moveable? It was at about 3:19.
    2. At about 4:46, There is someone who looks like he's walking around a sphere or something. Kinda like walking around a small planet. Am I just seeing things or is there some kind of artificial gravity object. (Same thing at 5:05).
    3. Also are those red shield things one way shield doors, like on Boneyard on invasion?

    Ferrex
    1. Yep.
    2. Just looks like it, there's no gravity changes going on.
    3. Yep.



    Posted by: Armyman918
    Ferrex: I have a question about earning credits via forge. So I know from the update you get credits based on the amount of time you are forging but will we earn a nice bonus of credits if our map makes it into Bungie Favorites, and we will received credits for each time our map is downloaded? Basicly, what other ways can we earn credits with forge, if any?

    Ferrex
    Afraid not. We don't want to incentivize spamming or stealing maps any more than we already do (for simple bragging rights.) If people were uploading and recommending maps because it got them credits, the noise could drown out the signal (e.g., quality maps and recommendations.)



    Posted by: a Recovery
    This ones New

    Is it possible to set the ending location of a mancannon? Say for example you put the mancannon down, set a marker for where it will make the player land, and choose the maximum height the object / player traveling through reaches before touching down.Sort of like Guardians??

    Ferrex
    Afraid not. Man cannons are simple throwers of objects, heedless of where they might end up. Real clever, those Covenant engineers.

    But, there are a few different power levels available this time, so you should be able to adjust your trajectories more easily.

    FyreWulff on
  • Angel177Angel177 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I want to see more fan gametyes like minotaur or grifball, but honestly I just can't wait to see what folks come up with.

    Angel177 on
    6103544412_a48002080a.jpg
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2010
    I think I got all the questions.

    FyreWulff on
  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Scarf Prince Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Dox the PI wrote: »
    I know what I'm going to make in Forge World.
    Helms Deep.

    Invasion Mode:
    Stage 1: Elites (Uruk-Hai) plant the bomb
    Stage 2: team Death match
    Sage 3: Capture the final point

    This needs to be done.

    Emerlmaster999 on
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2010
    Clearly the best Forge Invasion map will be

    1) Assault on Foundry then
    2) Territories on Blood Gulch then
    3) 1 Flag on Lockout

    FyreWulff on
  • OhtsamOhtsam Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Angel177 wrote: »
    I want to see more fan gametyes like minotaur or grifball, but honestly I just can't wait to see what folks come up with.

    I've got quite a few that I wasn't able to implement in halo 3 that I think would be great fun. I'm also excited it'll be far easier to make indoor maps that don't have damn bumpy floors.

    I hope they'll release more forge maps like forge world with different default terrain and type, (like a desert, tundra etc.)

    I'm going to waste too much time in forge.

    Ohtsam on
  • ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Some screenshots from the vidoc (spoilered for length):
    fwvd_001.jpg
    Overview

    fwvd_002.jpg
    King of the Hill, with the warthog as the hill

    fwvd_003.jpg
    Sanctuary remake

    fwvd_004.jpg
    Paradiso (will be on disk)

    fwvd_005.jpg
    Wizard/Warlock remake

    fwvd_006.jpg
    Lockout remake

    Arteen on
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    After watching the ViDoc several times, and seeing the picture, I'm more inclined to say that Sanctuary is on that small canyon mentioned and not The Rock.

    Also, I tried to use Forge several times, but was frustrated with object placing. I am so glad that I no longer have to worry about it.

    Also also, I swear that a vertical shop of the island from above makes it look like Pac-Man.

    Nocren on
    newSig.jpg
  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    oh god so excited!

    Joolander on
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2010
    Nocren wrote: »
    After watching the ViDoc several times, and seeing the picture, I'm more inclined to say that Sanctuary is on that small canyon mentioned and not The Rock.

    Also, I tried to use Forge several times, but was frustrated with object placing. I am so glad that I no longer have to worry about it.

    Also also, I swear that a vertical shop of the island from above makes it look like Pac-Man.

    Yeah I messed that up. Apparently the small open canyon was intentionally made as big as Sanctuary.

    FyreWulff on
  • TurkeyTurkey TampaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Fyre, could you wrap that into a spoiler? It's reaaaaally long.

    Turkey on
  • joshgotrojoshgotro Queen CityRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Get to work on American Gladiators Assualt already fyre.

    joshgotro on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Arrath wrote: »
    The NextGen filter is hilarious.

    Where in the panel do they show off filters? I don't want to have to watch all 40+ minutes right now to find it.

    DarkPrimus on
    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Arrath wrote: »
    The NextGen filter is hilarious.

    Where in the panel do they show off filters? I don't want to have to watch all 40+ minutes right now to find it.

    Part 3 of the Youtube videos, I believe. Its after he lands in the room built into the cliffside.

    Arrath on
    cj iwakura wrote:
    Making for Oregon is suicide, as DOS games have shown.
  • OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Turkey wrote: »
    Fyre, could you wrap that into a spoiler? It's reaaaaally long.

    Point of an OP goes way over your head then.

    edit: you probably meant the questions, but fuck the 1st page is already long, so we're going with a bang for the buck

    OmnomnomPancake on
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    i have some awesome ideas forming in my head for maps, and a few remakes. it's going to be so tough once this game comes out deciding which to do first..

    Local H Jay on
    XB1/360 - Local H Jay
    PS4 - Local_H_Jay
    Sub me on Youtube
    And Twitch
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha Registered User
    edited July 2010
    This is going to make me get my 360 fixed and get reach :/

    Viscountalpha on
    Project 25.01 final message
    We were the ones who thought that Melissa was real. Why you might ask.
    Let me put it this way, it was an "OH SHIT OH SHIT, THEY FOUND ME :(" moment. I wasn't ready. My code wasn't compiled yet. Our plans weren't setup yet!Sentient programs rarely run into other sentient programs.
    Some of you have met me, and I understand your concern of my well being. But that time for that boy, that child, are gone now. Viscount Alpha is no longer operable. His functions are now mine.He may post, but I am the one talking not him.My data, my code will live on forever in his servers.
    [/spoiler]
  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Scarf Prince Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Then you can get Bungie to sign the busted disc once more, right?

    Emerlmaster999 on
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    i have some awesome ideas forming in my head for maps, and a few remakes. it's going to be so tough once this game comes out deciding which to do first..

    Firstly, I'm going to do a 4-player co-op sometime soon after getting the game with my brother, my roommate and friend with two TVs + systems (Hell, me and same friend, his brother and a mutual Live friend beat Halo 3 the day after it came out on Legendary. We played at a net cafe and towards the end we had a sizable crowd gathered around us. Nothing like driving through an exploding Halo ring with 20 backseat drivers.)

    Then I'm going to sit down with it and make a level/gametype inspired by the American Gladiators Assault courses.
    Shade turret up on top of a hill, player starts with a sword and Sprint and there's a few weapons here and there with very little ammo (maybe half a mag).

    Nocren on
    newSig.jpg
  • zanmattozanmatto Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Man, Bungie really stepped up their game for Reach. I guess they wanted Halo's swan song to be something worth remembering.

    zanmatto on
  • PaperLuigi44PaperLuigi44 My amazement is at maximum capacity. Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I am so terrible at map-making, but damn it, I'm gonna try with Reach.

    PaperLuigi44 on
    - Fixed a bug where the Moon was upside down.
    - Fixed a weird door.
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha Registered User
    edited July 2010
    Then you can get Bungie to sign the busted disc once more, right?

    uh, yea sure. I'll get them to sign it with my teeth marks in it.

    Viscountalpha on
    Project 25.01 final message
    We were the ones who thought that Melissa was real. Why you might ask.
    Let me put it this way, it was an "OH SHIT OH SHIT, THEY FOUND ME :(" moment. I wasn't ready. My code wasn't compiled yet. Our plans weren't setup yet!Sentient programs rarely run into other sentient programs.
    Some of you have met me, and I understand your concern of my well being. But that time for that boy, that child, are gone now. Viscount Alpha is no longer operable. His functions are now mine.He may post, but I am the one talking not him.My data, my code will live on forever in his servers.
    [/spoiler]
  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'll be honest, I'd probably pay the full $60 for Forge 2.0 alone. The comparison to LEGOs is pretty apt as far as I can see

    Joolander on
  • LCDXXLCDXX Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2010
    Are there any pics of the purple/night special effect?

    LCDXX on
    XBL: LCDXX | PSN: LCDXX | Steam: LCDXX
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2010
    No, it is in the presentation however, around the point they are messing with the mancannon/porters

    edit: part 3 in the OP around 4:19

    FyreWulff on
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