Video game industry thread: this one's done.

cloudeagle

Hi! Welcome to the sales thread. Here we talk about how games have sold, marketing, PR comments, analysis of analysts and all kinds of other business-related stuff. Occasionally we make poop jokes.

And if you think modern-day console warz are stupid, get a load of this:

slash000 wrote: »

Opty wrote: »

Here's an interesting article that dredges up newsgroup posts from the NES era that are complaining about Nintendo being too casual/the NES being underpowered/etc. Nintendo's always been too casual/kiddy I guess.

That whole article was great to read, and the included articles from the past too.

It's hilarious. 1983 article talking about how Japanese/Nintendo games are too casual because they're cheery and linear and too easy and "made for novices," and that it's ushering in a decline in the industry for "hardcore gamers" who like the more serious, more challenging hardcore games involving blowing shit up (Robotron, Stargate, Defender). The guy he talked to in the article said that games like Donkey Kong and PacMan were designed for "novices", making games "too easy" for the casual gamer and "ripping off" the hardcore gamer. That these games are made for a "wider group of people," and how he derides these games as being "for Mom" and for girls.

And Dragon Quest, boy that game brought about the death of hardcore RPGs, with its cheery premise and utterly easy casual gameplay. Described as a "casual" iteration of gameplay from stuff like U ltima and Wizardry.


And now to quote the same quote from the article because it's hilarious:

Here is one message from a ‘hardcore gamer’ in 1989:

Personally, I think the Nintendo is a piece of right wing garbage akin to the
IBM PC. Slow, out of date, but heavily marketed so that mindless dweenies will
think it’s the hottest thing since Zelda had her first period. I have yet TO
SEE A SINGLE GAME ON THE THING SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER THAN STUFF I
PLAYED ON MY OLD ATARI 800 SEVEN YEARS AGO…..Yes, there are some nice games, but
they do not do anything extraordinary and in fact clearly show
the glaring limitations of the thing’s inferior pre-VLSI hardware.

On the subject of the Sega Genesis and the Turbografix 16. At least these guys
are using hardware invented after the Apple II, give ‘em credit! The graphics
in these games are NICE! I really can’t give a decent opinion as to which is
better, they’re both fantastic!

But now I get to stand on my soapbox and have some fun. Correct me if I am
wrong, but isn’t the Atari 7800 superior hardware wise to the NES? I heard
thing could manipulate 64 BIG sprites at once. It was developed right when
the slump hit the videogame industry, and two fantastic and innovative games
Rescue at fractalus and Ballblazer NEVER got the recognition they deserved.
I have yet to see ANYTHING on the NES half as good as these wondrous
creations from Lucasfilm. All I ever see are variations on the horizontal/
vertical scrolling find the magic trinket and or blow it up while a host of
randomly drawn stick figures get in your way theme. I’d rather pay 25 cents
in an arcade and at least get decent graphics and sound.

This gets us to another topic. Anyone who believes the Gamebody superior to
the Lynx is a complete loony. However, I think there is a good chance the
Lynx will fail simply because the Gameboy is saturing the market. I hope this
does not happen because I do not see anyone else creating truly innovative
software for home video games. Even the Sega and NEC systems are only offering
souped up versions of the aforementioned theme…

The only really nifty games are being written for Amigas and ST’s with sorry
adaptions made for befuddled PC users who gladly shuck out the bucks when they
see screenshots from the ST and Amiga versions (usually the Amiga version ),
and get the Nintendosized version of a formerly fantastic game. One could
probably write neat stuff for the Mac II, but who wants to pay $7000 for a
video game ? The saddest part about this tale is that the PC version by far
outshines the combined profits of Amiga and ST versions so now some programmers
are dropping the Amiga and ST and limiting their horizons simply for the bucks.

I’m writing what I hope is a truly innovative video game myself right now, I
am writing it on an Atari ST with plans for both Amiga and PC adaptations, but
the key word here IS adaptations. The Amiga version will certainly be a little
better with the nifty sound and blitter chip, but I will need to write the PC
adaptation to make the thing truly profitable and that will be by far the
hardest part. Anyone out there looking for games for the NEC or Genesis? This
game would be PERFECT! I already know the thing would crash and burn on an NES

In closing, this post rambled ALOT, but I have wanted to broadcast my views
on the NES monopoly and the general creative decline it has triggered for a
very long time…

It's not hardcore enough and the graphics aren't cutting edge enough!

There's more interesting musings in the article too.

Behold, June's info.

PlayStation 3 304.8K
PSP 121.0K
Xbox 360 451.7K
Wii 422.5K
Nintendo DS 510.7K



Aaaaaand go.

Cantido

Ahahahaa what the fuck did I just read. Man, what is up with the Nineties?

Pureauthor

People being elitist pricks will remain forever.

Xagarath

In a possibly unprecedented move, a horrible tabloid admits to the standard of its journalism
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/145880/Rockstar-Games-Grand-Theft-Auto-An-apology/

cloudeagle

ON 21 July we published an article claiming that the video games company Rockstar Games were planning to release a version of their popular Grand Theft Auto video games series titled “Grand Theft Auto Rothbury”.

We also published what we claimed would be the cover of this game, solicited comments from a family member impacted by the recent tragedy and criticised Rockstar Games for their alleged plans.

We made no attempt to check the accuracy of the story before publication and did not contact Rockstar Games prior to publishing the story. We also did not question why a best selling and critically acclaimed fictional games series would choose to base one of their most popular games on this horrifying real crime event.

It is now accepted that there were never any plans by Rockstar Games to publish such a game and that the story was false. We apologise for publishing the story using a mock-up of the game cover, our own comments on the matter and soliciting critical comments from a grieving family member.

We unreservedly apologise to Rockstar Games and we have undertaken not to repeat the claims again. We have also agreed to pay them a substantial amount in damages which they are donating to charity.

Wow. Just... wow. I knew British journalism was by and large crap, but I had no idea it could be THIS crap.

Dehumanized

You wouldn't judge anywhere else's journalism by their tabloids, shrug.

reVerse

Yeah, that's a pretty silly thing to say.

lowlylowlycook

Couscous wrote: »

There will always be Zerg, space marines, and Protoss as long as there is enough money to be made to justify a sequel. Always. Every game universe that relies on perpetual conflict ends up having none of them ever actually winning. They only appear to be winning until there is some new hope that allows others to appear to be winning. There is an occasional change in talking heads but none of those talking heads ever make any permanent gains that matter outside fluff. It is like the war in 1984 except they occasionally add more participants in the form of some extremely powerful new enemy that is never actually that powerful except in fluff. The reason is obviously because the developers love money.

Well maybe the squats will make a comeback.

Capt Howdy

So did soapbox boy's game ever come to fruition? And damn I miss the real console wars!

Sheep

Capt Howdy wrote: »

So did soapbox boy's game ever come to fruition?

Yeah. I think it was called Battlecruiser 3000AD.

cloudeagle

Dehumanized wrote: »

You wouldn't judge anywhere else's journalism by their tabloids, shrug.

That's why I said it could be, not it is.

Henroid

Wait, I missed the part about the NES being right-wing.

Cantido

Henroid wrote: »

Wait, I missed the part about the NES being right-wing.

Imperial Japan???

Turkey

I had to recheck which wing was which.

Henroid

cloudeagle wrote: »

Dehumanized wrote: »

You wouldn't judge anywhere else's journalism by their tabloids, shrug.

That's why I said it could be, not it is.

Time to pay British journalists for damages which they are donating to charity.

korodullin

After reading that GAF thread, I'm going to call Nintendo "Ninrakedough" from now on.

Leitner

lowlylowlycook wrote: »

Couscous wrote: »

There will always be Zerg, space marines, and Protoss as long as there is enough money to be made to justify a sequel. Always. Every game universe that relies on perpetual conflict ends up having none of them ever actually winning. They only appear to be winning until there is some new hope that allows others to appear to be winning. There is an occasional change in talking heads but none of those talking heads ever make any permanent gains that matter outside fluff. It is like the war in 1984 except they occasionally add more participants in the form of some extremely powerful new enemy that is never actually that powerful except in fluff. The reason is obviously because the developers love money.

Well maybe the squats will make a comeback.

I hear they'll team up with the Fimir.

HamHamJ

What I found interesting in that article was the idea that in the future, the Wii will be like the NES and the X-Boxs and Playstations will be like the Atari consoles that no one gives a crap about.

Santa Claustrophobia

I can't believe nobody ever made that connection before!

Couscous

http://www.mcvuk.com/features/722/Is-3D-in-trouble

Christopher Dring speaks to the experts about the challenges facing the 3D movement

James Cameron’s Avatar was a watershed moment for entertainment.

It generated $2.73 billion at the box office – 90 per cent of which came from 3D screens. And almost overnight the TV, film and video game worlds rushed to embrace the new 3D phenomenon.

In February, Panasonic, Samsung and Sony began to roll-out their 3D TVs. Cinemas worldwide upped the number of 3D screens from 5,000 in December to 8,500 today (according to Screen Digest). Meanwhile, the games industry unveiled a huge array of 3D games – Killzone 3, Crysis 2, GT5, to name a few. And that’s not to mention 3DS, which wowed the media at E3 last month.

Whereas once it was considered a novelty, 3D is now viewed as a key part in the future of entertainment – and consumers are already responding. Screen Digest claims 25 per cent of UK box office revenues this year have come from 3D movies, and the firm predicts that 187,000 3D TVs will be in UK homes by the end of 2010 (3m worldwide).

“People have tried 3D before and it failed,” said Screen Digest’s senior analyst for TV Daniel Simmons.

“The reason it looks like it will succeed this time is because all the elements are ready. You can make 3D content, you can display 3D content and you have the technology to distribute 3D content. It’s all in place.”

However, there are significant doubts about whether the success 3D has seen at cinemas can translate to the home.

For one, consumers have only just upgraded to HD, and it’s going to take something big to encourage adoption of another large, flatscreen TV – especially as 3D TVs currently cost over £1,000.

“If you look at the stats, only 20 per cent of HD TVs actually have HD content going through them,” added Simmons.

“People bought them not because of the HD, but because they wanted a big flatscreen TV, which they now all have. So it’s going to take great content to encourage people to upgrade to 3D.”

Another issue for 3D to overcome is the sheer number of people who can’t or shouldn’t view it. Both Nintendo and Sony have warned that young children should not view 3D because their eyes have yet to fully develop. Sony stated that parents should at least check with a doctor before letting children under six play its 3D games.

Meanwhile, recent studies have revealed that 12 per cent of the UK population can’t even see 3D correctly.
3D technology relies on our eyes’ ability to work together to achieve a perception of depth. And according to research from The Eyecare Trust, more than one in ten of the UK population (around six million) have a visual impairment that means our brains are unable to process the 3D images.

“For these six million people it’s like taking the 3D glasses off and seeing everything all blurry,” said Eyecare Trust chairman Dharmesh Patel.

“You try to see the image but you can’t and that causes the headaches, eye-strain and blurred vision. And there will be people who have not attended an eye examination in years and won’t even know why they can’t see it.”

Charlotte Jones, senior analyst for Cinema at Screen Digest added: “Poor 3D vision is going to be a significant factor for the home. It’ll also impact content that is exclusively supplied in 3D, which some of it has been in the cinema.”

On top of concerns about who can and can’t see in 3D, experts say motion-controlled games may also be incompatible with 3D titles. Simmons says that certain 3D games for Wii, Move and Kinect may not work because moving around would “spoil the 3D illusion”.

To encourage consumers to wear the silly glasses and splash out on the expensive TVs great content is needed, and so far there’s only been a handful of releases.

For film, it’s been all about James Cameron’s Avatar and Alice in Wonderland, while in games only Ubisoft has entered the space with its Avatar movie tie-in.

“Ubisoft has had a stereoscopic 3D game available to buy and play since last Christmas in James Cameron’s Avatar: The Game,” said Ubisoft senior brand manager Phil Brannelly.

“Stereoscopic 3D provides the gamer with slightly more information about the environment they’re in. It becomes both a more immersive and authentic experience. Your brain really wants to believe that what you’re looking at is a living, breathing entity.

“I have demoed Avatar to thousands of people on 3D TVs or 3D cinema screens, and the reaction is always positive. But then they ask how much for the screen?

“As the costs come down the sales will go up but it is incredibly important that film, TV and game companies make content for 3D.”

This content is coming. Sony has been involved in all areas of 3D, from the movies to the games to the TVs, and the firm is planning a string of big releases this Christmas – such as Gran Turismo 5.

Panasonic has also identified the need for 3D content. The manufacturer has a range of 3D TVs, supplies professional equipment to movie studios, and is also backing Direct TV – one of the biggest US pay-per-view operators – by sponsoring one of the firm’s three new 3D channels.

“The core issue for 3D is purely content,” concluded Simmons.

“This is where it will be won or lost. And games have a part to play. Video games were very important in driving HD take-up, and will be a significant driver for 3D, as well.”

Lawndart

HamHamJ wrote: »

What I found interesting in that article was the idea that in the future, the Wii will be like the NES and the X-Boxs and Playstations will be like the Atari consoles that no one gives a crap about.

It is quite useful as a textbook example of confirmation bias.

That and sweet, sweet irony.

"Look how silly fanboys used to be! Now, I'll talk about how the NES unquestionably had better games than anything else at the time, how Sony and Microsoft will leave the console business and how the Wii will be the only console anyone will ever remember for ever and ever."

Atari for life, motherfuckers.

Kastanj

cloudeagle wrote: »

Wow. Just... wow. I knew British journalism was by and large crap, but I had no idea it could be THIS crap.

I find Anglo-Saxon journalism to be one of the most uninhibitedly revolting, corrupt and degenerated institutions in society, TBH. There is no issue they can't bungle and doll up, and when you get to genuinely important matters like global warming they are reliably beyond all sympathy.

As for OP's article, I read Malstrom but the guy needs to rethink his approach to... Well, everyone. I don't mind braggadocio, arrogance or self-importance in writers if it is justified and done with flair, but when it is done casually it's difficult to bring his articles to the attention of others because he comes across as so silly.

-SPI-

I wonder if the big push in 3D games will lead to those of us who don't give a shit about 3d enjoying high framerates as standard since everyone has to run their games at effectively double the framerate to put them in 3d? That would be a pretty awesome side effect.

HamHamJ

Lawndart wrote: »

HamHamJ wrote: »

What I found interesting in that article was the idea that in the future, the Wii will be like the NES and the X-Boxs and Playstations will be like the Atari consoles that no one gives a crap about.

It is quite useful as a textbook example of confirmation bias.

That and sweet, sweet irony.

"Look how silly fanboys used to be! Now, I'll talk about how the NES unquestionably had better games than anything else at the time, how Sony and Microsoft will leave the console business and how the Wii will be the only console anyone will ever remember for ever and ever."

Atari for life, motherfuckers.

I don't know, I think it has a point. Motion controls are not going to go away. They are going to become the new industry standard. The Wii, as the first adopter and the one with a head start on learning how to do them well, will probably stand in history far more than "console #50 with slightly better graphics than it's predecessor".

Rami

I've yet to find a country in the world that has less than 90% shit rate on journalism.

Lawndart

HamHamJ wrote: »

Lawndart wrote: »

HamHamJ wrote: »

What I found interesting in that article was the idea that in the future, the Wii will be like the NES and the X-Boxs and Playstations will be like the Atari consoles that no one gives a crap about.

It is quite useful as a textbook example of confirmation bias.

That and sweet, sweet irony.

"Look how silly fanboys used to be! Now, I'll talk about how the NES unquestionably had better games than anything else at the time, how Sony and Microsoft will leave the console business and how the Wii will be the only console anyone will ever remember for ever and ever."

Atari for life, motherfuckers.

I don't know, I think it has a point. Motion controls are not going to go away. They are going to become the new industry standard. The Wii, as the first adopter and the one with a head start on learning how to do them well, will probably stand in history far more than "console #50 with slightly better graphics than it's predecessor".

Except that by that same logic, people would remember the Atari 2600 far more than the NES.

Kastanj

Rami wrote: »

I've yet to find a country in the world that has less than 90% shit rate on journalism.

Sweden is mediocre in this department, but i think we can beat that standard at least. The two major morning newspapers are reliable, there are some ideological but not insidious magazines that run the political spectrum and the TV news is harmless. Pundits and "news personalities" are pretty much absent. The real vermin can be found in comments sections and paranoid "non-PC" (read: "Whenever a Muslim does something bad we are on the case to spin it into a rabidly anti-left narrative") boys' clubs on the internet, but what else is new?

Oh, and Street Fighter X Tekken was just unveiled. Tag ultras, kids. Tag ultras.

AZChristopher

Kastanj wrote: »

Oh, and Street Fighter X Tekken was just unveiled. Tag ultras, kids. Tag ultras.

Also Tekken X Street Fighter. One is in the style of Street Fighter and the other will be in the style of Tekken. So two games; same fighters; different play.

Interesting way to do a crossover.

Cameron_Talley

According to that non-sensical rant, the Atari 7800 has better Tech than the NES.

I don't think that's true, but if it is it proves once again that better hardware != better game experience.

Kastanj

AZChristopher wrote: »

Kastanj wrote: »

Oh, and Street Fighter X Tekken was just unveiled. Tag ultras, kids. Tag ultras.

Also Tekken X Street Fighter. One is in the style of Street Fighter and the other will be in the style of Tekken. So two games; same fighters; different play.

BEST FUCKING way to do a crossover EVER.

Fixed!

mynameisguido

AZChristopher wrote: »

Kastanj wrote: »

Oh, and Street Fighter X Tekken was just unveiled. Tag ultras, kids. Tag ultras.

Also Tekken X Street Fighter. One is in the style of Street Fighter and the other will be in the style of Tekken. So two games; same fighters; different play.

Interesting way to do a crossover.

Isn't this how we got Capcom vs SNK and SNK vs. Capcom: Chaos? Two different teams working on the games simultaneously?

Santa Claustrophobia

Cameron_Talley wrote: »

According to that non-sensical rant, the Atari 7800 has better Tech than the NES.

I don't think that's true, but if it is it proves once again that better hardware != better game experience.

But it does prove that confirmation bias = better game experience.

I mean, seeing as how some people like the HD consoles over the Wii. All that means is there is no one universal truth to a subjective measure.

Couscous

Tekken X Street Fighter and Street Fighter X Tekken better sell a shitload.

Cameron_Talley

Santa Claustrophobia wrote: »

Cameron_Talley wrote: »

According to that non-sensical rant, the Atari 7800 has better Tech than the NES.

I don't think that's true, but if it is it proves once again that better hardware != better game experience.

But it does prove that confirmation bias = better game experience.

I mean, seeing as how some people like the HD consoles over the Wii. All that means is there is no one universal truth to a subjective measure.

Well, I don't think the situation is comparable. I don't think anyone could look at the 7800's library and say it was equal to or better than the NES'.

Opty

Cameron_Talley wrote: »

Santa Claustrophobia wrote: »

Cameron_Talley wrote: »

According to that non-sensical rant, the Atari 7800 has better Tech than the NES.

I don't think that's true, but if it is it proves once again that better hardware != better game experience.

But it does prove that confirmation bias = better game experience.

I mean, seeing as how some people like the HD consoles over the Wii. All that means is there is no one universal truth to a subjective measure.

Well, I don't think the situation is comparable. I don't think anyone could look at the 7800's library and say it was equal to or better than the NES'.

But the 7800 could manipulate 64 BIG sprites at once! I'd like to see the NES do that.

Couscous

Please. Everybody knows the computers were the greatest. Did the NES have Ultima I? Did it have the game where you can buy flying cars and space shuttles from ye olde shoppe that also sells horses? Did it have the game where you use phazors? Did it have a game where you use your space shuttle to go into space, steal a star fighter from a space station, and then go fight tie fighters to prove yourself a space ace to the princess you just saved so that she will tell you where the time machine that you need to use to go back and time and kill the evil wizard before he has completed the gem of immortality? I think not.

Opty

[url=http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.video/msg/a241a598b831032e]some guy in the past[/url] wrote:

Well, I played Ultimas I through III way back in High School..
Back then it was good, but now we have seen Sundog, Dungeon Master
and Bloodwych. The Ultima series is obsolete as is most of the
software on the Nintendo.

Cantido

The first RTS wasn't a PC game: It was on Genesis!

Herzog

Couscous

The first RTS wasn't a PC game: It was on Genesis!

LIES!

In the UK, the genre's beginning can be traced to Stonkers by John Gibson, published in 1983 by Imagine Software for the ZX Spectrum, and Nether Earth published on ZX Spectrum in 1987. In North America, the oldest game retrospectively classified as real-time strategy by many sources[5][7] is Rescue Raiders (1984), designed by Sir-Tech. It was followed by The Ancient Art of War at Sea in 1987, although Dani Bunten Berry's (of M.U.L.E fame) Cytron Masters (1982), developed by Ozark Softscape and released by SSI, also has been considered the earliest game of the genre.[8][9]

Some writers list Intellivision's Utopia by Don Daglow (1982) as the first real-time strategy game.[10] In Utopia two players build resources and carry out combat by proxy. It contains the direct-manipulation tactical combat now common in that the players can assume direct control over a PT boat and sink the opponents fishing boats. Another early example from the same year is Legionnaire on the Atari 8-bit family, written by Chris Crawford for Avalon Hill. This was effectively the opposite of Utopia, in that it offered a complete real-time tactical combat system with variable terrain and mutual-help concepts, but lacked any resource collection and economy/production concepts. As a result, this game might be better considered an early forerunner of the RTT (real-time tactics) genre.

Computer Master Race wins again!

jclast

HamHamJ wrote: »

Motion controls are not going to go away. They are going to become the new industry standard.

You should stop saying things like this because they make me sad.

You're probably right.

PaperLuigi44

Oh wow, that OP article. Some things never change.

Oh, and RE: That Rothbury story, just wait until you see how the journalist behind it responded when he was first called out on it

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102270-Journalist-Who-Wrote-Fake-GTA-Story-Ridicules-Gamers

Andy Chalk | 23 Jul 2010 2:14 am

The "journalist" who made-up the story about Grand Theft Auto Rothbury in yesterday's Daily Star says he's "baffled" by the uproar and has responded to complaints by ridiculing adult gamers.

A quick update in case you missed it yesterday: Jerry Lawton, a "journalist" with the U.K. news site Daily Star, wrote a story about a new version of Grand Theft Auto based on real-life killer Raoul Moat. He even extracted an obviously anguished quote about GTA Rothbury from the grandmother of Moat's ex-girlfriend, one of his victims. The problem? There is no such game. Lawton found a fake cover of the non-existent game online and proceeded to build an anti-gaming story around it.

The uproar eventually led to the story being pulled, albeit without any kind of apology, explanation or even an acknowledgment that it existed at all, but the man behind it is entirely unrepentant. In fact, he claims to be surprised that people are upset by his story and seems oblivious to the fact that Grand Theft Auto Rothbury doesn't actually exist at all. He even took the opportunity to ridicule adult gamers on his Facebook page, which has since been set to private.

"Baffled by the fury of adult gamers," he wrote. "These are grown (?!?) men who sit around all day playing computer games with one another who've today chosen to enter the real world just long enough to complain about my story slamming a Raoul Moat version of Grand Theft Auto! You would think I'd denied the Holocaust!!! Think I'll challenge them to a virtual reality duel....stab....I win!!!" Let me remind you that this is a "real journalist" speaking and although the Star is a notoriously trashy rag, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a certain minimal level of integrity in its reporting, even if only to the point of not passing off outright lies as real news and then making fun of people who call them on it. Is that really so baffling, Jerry?

Source: Destructoid