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Macbook People Assemble!
Fagatron
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Background: I am an IT Consultant with a degree in the Computer Sciences and took a lot of courses that focus on Network Engineering. The economy being what it is I haven't had so much luck becoming a Systems Administrator or Network Engineer, but recently my fledgling Technology Consultancy business has really been coming into it's own, and I've been picking up more and more contract work through several local recruiters. Thus far most of my experience and education has been explicitly PC and Linux based, I've had a few clients with Macs and Mac related problems, and I've been able to wing it, but now I've got a client who had some problems with his home network, and we hit it off and he wants me to do support for two local retail stores he owns, problem is they're both Mac environments. I find myself in a position where I want/need to really learn OSX well, even though I've hated all my interactions with the OS so far.
THE CONUNDRUM: I have a large payday coming up from the contracting, and I want to buy a Macbook. I am looking at the base $999 Macbook model and the $1199 13-inch Macbook Pro model and I got questions.
Mostly I'm just trying to figure out if the performance/quality jump with that extra two hundred bones is worth it. I'm also puzzled why they aren't offering 7200 RPM hard drives in either model when their base size is 250GB. I know they exist and I've been using them in my desktops for ten years. I forsee the seek times being a nightmare when the thing's trying to chug through 500GB of data at only 5400 RPMs. They offer SSD drive options for the Macbook Pro but I'm fairly certain those are going to be too pricy for me buying them direct from Apple (or at all).
Which brings me to upgrades. I'm assuming it'd void the hell out of any warranties on the thing, but it'd be nice if they were to allow me to swap out the hard drive and RAM. I seem to remember Dell allowing you to upgrade RAM without voiding the warranty on their notebooks but I may have imagined it. I don't think I'll need more space than the base 250GB hard drive, I'll only be running Microsoft Documents, music, maybe some movies, internetting, that sort of thing, if I can throw a few games on it I might but I have access to a pretty sweet gaming desktop. But if I do it'd be nice to be able to throw in a 500GB or TB drive, or a faster 7200RPM model. Or to be able to upgrade the RAM if I find the 2GB in the base Macbook lacking.
Which brings me to system requirements. I have no idea how resource hungry OSX is. I know it's Unix based, which makes me want to think it's less greedy than Windows based on my breadth of experience with Linux, but their GUI is so shiny, and I sure haven't been impressed with ANY Apple software's performance on Windows so I'm wary. If I go with the base model am I going to miss the 2GB of extra RAM the Pro version has?
Anything else I should know about the differences between the two models, or just Mac things in general, or is there a new Macbook model/generation on the horizon and buying now instead of in a few months is a horrible mistake? I get the impression that Apple technology moves a lot more slowly than PC hardware because they treat the whole computer as a platform instead of a bunch of individual components but I really don't know anything about them. My last Apple product was an Apple //e when I was five.
THE CONUNDRUM: I have a large payday coming up from the contracting, and I want to buy a Macbook. I am looking at the base $999 Macbook model and the $1199 13-inch Macbook Pro model and I got questions.
Mostly I'm just trying to figure out if the performance/quality jump with that extra two hundred bones is worth it. I'm also puzzled why they aren't offering 7200 RPM hard drives in either model when their base size is 250GB. I know they exist and I've been using them in my desktops for ten years. I forsee the seek times being a nightmare when the thing's trying to chug through 500GB of data at only 5400 RPMs. They offer SSD drive options for the Macbook Pro but I'm fairly certain those are going to be too pricy for me buying them direct from Apple (or at all).
Which brings me to upgrades. I'm assuming it'd void the hell out of any warranties on the thing, but it'd be nice if they were to allow me to swap out the hard drive and RAM. I seem to remember Dell allowing you to upgrade RAM without voiding the warranty on their notebooks but I may have imagined it. I don't think I'll need more space than the base 250GB hard drive, I'll only be running Microsoft Documents, music, maybe some movies, internetting, that sort of thing, if I can throw a few games on it I might but I have access to a pretty sweet gaming desktop. But if I do it'd be nice to be able to throw in a 500GB or TB drive, or a faster 7200RPM model. Or to be able to upgrade the RAM if I find the 2GB in the base Macbook lacking.
Which brings me to system requirements. I have no idea how resource hungry OSX is. I know it's Unix based, which makes me want to think it's less greedy than Windows based on my breadth of experience with Linux, but their GUI is so shiny, and I sure haven't been impressed with ANY Apple software's performance on Windows so I'm wary. If I go with the base model am I going to miss the 2GB of extra RAM the Pro version has?
Anything else I should know about the differences between the two models, or just Mac things in general, or is there a new Macbook model/generation on the horizon and buying now instead of in a few months is a horrible mistake? I get the impression that Apple technology moves a lot more slowly than PC hardware because they treat the whole computer as a platform instead of a bunch of individual components but I really don't know anything about them. My last Apple product was an Apple //e when I was five.
Fagatron on
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Replacing RAM and the HD in at least the MBP does NOT void the warranty (the instructions are actually printed in the user guide and can easily be found by just googling Apple's support site!)
4GB RAM is about the sweet spot for using OS X right now for day to day use, in my experience. I can't remember issues where it's been swapping things out ever, but I know that my memory usage is generally hovering about ~2.25GB of actual used RAM. (With another gig in inactive memory that can be freed up if necessary.)
It's hard to differentiate the differences before my first cup of tea, but in my experience, there's enough extra polish and effects on the MBP to necessitate the extra two hundred bones. That said, you certainly can't go wrong with just a normal Macbook.
Good info all around. After I'm done with this period of contracting I'll definitely go to the giant Apple store downtown and play with both. I don't actually care that much about polish and effects, I'm a very utilitarian person, but if anyone can speak to the merits of the aluminum chassis versus the plastic one that'd be great.
I have a new (8 week) MBP 15" and a new (2 weeks) Macbook. With 2GB or RAM on the Macbook, we haven't hit any lagging, and the computer is completely adequate for every "normal" task you listed up there. We haven't tried any gaming on it, so I can't tell you much about that.
As far as the cases, honestly, I feel that the Macbook case is, overall, more durable and less prone to light damage than the aluminium MBP case. I'd rather have the Macbook banging around in a bag than the MBP.
Also, I'd consider Apple's iWork suite over MS Office!
This is a good point: generally OS X performs much better than Windows does. I use 4GB, but then again I'm prone to leaving everything open and just swapping instead of wasting time on window management (yay for Spaces and Expose.)
I haven't felt the newest Macbook case, but 10 months in of heavy portable use and the only scratch on my MBP case is from when I accidentally dropped a utility knife on it point first. I suspect it's more resilient in general, but any scratches are more noticeable.
A lot of people complain about how dirty MBPs look - that's actually, literally, accrued dirt and oils from our hands. Buff it off and it's as good as new, as opposed to plastics which can discolour and warp quite easily.
The MacBook lacks an SD card slot as well.
Well, it's actually a little bit over mid-cycle for the MacBook Pros so I think we'll see an upgrade in a few months. October maybe? And seeing as they just put the i3's in the new low end iMacs, I'm really hoping we see them in the MBP 13"s soon as I'm wanting to buy one for school in the Fall.
This is exactly the kind of thing I didn't want to hear. I want a notebook to use for my work now, and I want to learn OSX now, but I'm pretty sure I'd hate myself if I spent 1200 bucks on a Macbook Pro only to watch it become completely obsolete in two months. Especially when it's so exorbitantly expensive compared to a Dell E Series that totally kicks ass and would do everything I want it to (except run OSX).
I mean, Apple is just recently discontinuing OS support for PowerPC based computers manufactured in 2006.
The cracking issue was the main reason why we were holding out for the 13" MBP over the MB (though I'll admit, the aluminum chassis also just plain looks and feels better), but I don't know if the new MB has the issue (I sent in our original MB 3 times due to topcase cracking, and it's cracked now I just can't be arsed to send it in again).
If you're just trying to learn the ins and outs of the OS on the cheap you could look at the mac mini and/or refurb units.
Agree'd, I have a 1.83ghz intel based Mini I got off eBay for $300 that is great for everyday use.
Then again, maybe you need a laptop, in which case I'd say go for the pro... it'd suck to get a Macbook only to fall in love with the OS and wish you ponied up the cash for something a little more capable.
No, they all have DDR3 now.
Honestly, the MacBook will be fine. If you at some point in the even near future decide you want more power, they hold their value ridiculously well unlike PCs.
And unlike PCs, Apple doesn't build computers that will run their OS and software badly. Unless you're doing really intensive shit, you'll be fine with the MacBook as a learning tool.
Psst..
As far as I can tell, the Macbook and Macbook Pro 13" model both have the same specs, with the exception of an additional 2GB of RAM, and the ability to upgrade the RAM in the Macbook Pro to up to 8GB (Macbook only goes up to 4GB from a standard 2GB). That and the chassis.
Honestly the Core 2 Processor in both of them is pretty aged at this point. If they're going to upgrade the Pro model to the new i3 processors that's a pretty big jump, and it would be nice if I'm ever scanning a drive I've got plugged in externally for viruses.
I don't just need the thing to learn OSX. Needing to learn OSX is why I want to buy a Macbook over a Dell or a Netbook, but I need the thing for the in-home consulting I do. Right now I'm limited to the 7 year old P4 Dell with the busted Network Port, or my girlfriend's behemoth gaming laptop. Neither are convenient. After I got it I would load it up with Windows 7, some flavor or other of Linux, and possibly Windows XP in addition to OSX.
Another question. Now that I know that replacing the hard drive won't void my warranty, how good are the new Macbooks at recognizing third party drives? Is there a compatibility list I need to be aware of? The drive I was looking at in particular is this one.
Also, how is the display going to look? I was pretty disappointed to see the max resolution on all their laptops with the exception of the uber expensive Macbook Pro. The aforementioned 7 year old laptop has a higher resolution though I doubt it's as bright.
Thanks a lot for the help everyone.
That is a very interesting article. I will have to investigate it. Thanks.
And I have some other questions about how much space Mac OS X is going to need.
I want at least four OSes on this. I've already bought a 500GB Momentus XT to put in it when I get it. I opted for the Pro version so I don't need extra RAM (yet), and I purchased an OEM copy of Windows 7 and I own several legit copies of XP.
I want four OS partitions on the computer, and one storage partition. Windows 7, Windows XP, OS X, and Ubuntu. I would like to create small partitions for Windows 7, XP, and Ubuntu with just the OS and enough room for swap files etc. on them, and a large NTFS partition for storage and program installation.
While I should be able to store all my music and video files in the storage partition and read them from OS X if MacFUSE works out okay; I'm going to need to make the OS X partition larger than the needs of the OS require if I want to install any programs on it, or have an additional storage partition formatted in HFS+ right?
How much is recommended? I am mostly new to OS X.
Out of curiosity, what model did you get?
It's a tight fit that requires excising everything extraneous from the OS, and leaves no room to install anything else.
Not really sure what your question is though, as it depends completely on your specific usage and what programs you will be installing.
Excuse my ignorance but what's the advantage of divvying up your HDD for four OS's vs running them as virtual machines?
Performance.
I just picked up the low end 13" MacBook Pro last week and it's great. I slapped a 500gb HD in it (self install) and I'm upping the RAM to 8gb for giggles (also a self install). Enjoy yours!
Does anybody know if I'll be able to install OS X programs to the NTFS partition by using MacFUSE or should I just make a bigger HFS+ partition?
Swapped out the HDD, installed OS X, realized I left the OS X partition named "Untitled 1" figured out how to rename it with Terminal, installed the Apps off the Apps Disc, said it needed a restart, also said it needed to install an update.
Installed the update before I did the restart, hit the restart button for the update and now it's stuck.
It got rid of all the toolbars and icons and all that's left is the desktop background and the cursor. It let me hit eject and take out the Apps Disc. But it's been hung like this for more than 20 minutes now.
Wat do?
Reinstall the OS again.
I did a hard reboot and it seems to be okay now. Is there something I don't know that could be problematic later?
Also now I am understanding why you can't install multiple OSes in partitions. I guess Boot Camp just doesn't do that. It's frustrating because not only can I not install OS X/Windows Seven/XP/Ubuntu in tandem. I can't even set up OS X/Seven/Storage Partition (for Seven) for rapid setup of Seven if it ever gets compromised. Is there a way around this I am unaware of, or do I just have to suck it up and use VMs.
I am assuming it is the latter, so if people could throw out their suggestions for VM software that'd be super. I've used VM Ware in the past but this is a time for experimentation and expanding my horizons. Hit me with a bunch of things and tell me why they're awesome.
Either this will be awesome or I will ruin everything.
Settled on 40/40 for Seven/OS X, 20 for XP, 20 for Ubuntu, and 380 for Storage.
You could always run an XP VM inside that 7 VM. That's when you're a true geek.
The XP VM is standard for windows 7 pro users who need XP support for an application. Works pretty decently, saves disk space too.
For this you'd be way better off running a VM in either W7 or OSX. VMWare Fusion or Parallels in OSX work great (I personally run a W7 VM in Parallels and a 2003 Server VM in VMWare Fusion on my MBP).
I will try it again using just OS X, Seven, and Ubuntu because that seems more supported. Researched it more and it looks like getting Ubuntu to play nice outside of the first four partitions (EFI (required by OS X), OS X, Seven, XP, Ubuntu) is probably more trouble than it's worth.