I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm overly sensitive to this stuff, but the way I see it, it is the case that, sometimes, making a joke about a disadvantaged group can be a shitty thing to do. Then, if people subsequently misinterpret your intent and get offended, the knee-jerk reaction of simply treating them as "easily offended" and "complainers" is really kinda shitty and/or mean. I think in both cases it's important to understand where the other side is coming from when they say and/or do what they do, rather than immediately lashing out.
"You shouldn't do that" and "You shouldn't be allowed to do that" is not a big step for a lot of people. Maybe not you, but I would guess a large segment of society. Hell, people try to outlaw things that don't affect them or anyone they know in even the slightest way.
Well, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't assume that I agree with the mouthbreathing masses.
PS The Islamic religion is not a cult, at least not anymore than Christianity or Taoism.
I didn't mean to imply that Christianity isn't a cult as well (I don't know much about Taoism). I also prefer to use "cult" to include other oft-mocked ideologies like Scientology or Objectivism that don't technically count as religions.
But ... this is off topic. Maybe we can summarize this tangent:
• Criticizing something doesn't mean you want it outlawed, or even socially stigmatized
• "Being a Muslim" in America does not engender a similar level of suffering as "getting raped."
Ok, gotcha. I also agree that religious persecution in America is no where on the same level as getting raped.
Are we doing the continuum of suffering again, because I love this subjective and totally biased goosery, Qingu.
Look, I also think it's stupid to argue about what was worse, slavery or the holocaust. There are atrocities that are so terrible that it becomes meaningless to rank them.
Being a Muslim in America is not one of them.
Yes, some Muslims get a lot of shit. I believe one person was murdered after 9/11 because someone thought he was a Muslim (and of course, he was actually a Sikh). People are dicks to Muslims for stupid reasons. This still isn't comparable to getting raped.
I think this is important to acknowledge. Rape is pretty terrible. Getting raped is actually a lot worse than people being mean to you because you're a Muslim. This is why I think we should be more sensitive about the first topic.
Art with intent to offend can be a wonderful, thought-provoking exercise. Similarly, talking about something in order to explore hurt is a great way to kill that hurt.
Neither applies in this situation. A flippant public joke about rape is almost guaranteed to hurt someone -- someone who has done nothing other than be the victim of sexual violence.
Offending religious fundamentalists? Fine, be provocative. Offending rape victims by making lolz about their trauma then getting pissy about it? Are you even fucking human?
You should never show that you're angry, especially on the internet. It never helps.
The wednesday comic was... a little bad. Not really bad, just somewhat insensitive, but in the grand scheme of things it would be quickly forgotten. However a few people got angry about it, and I guess wrote angry letters to Mike and Jerry.
This made them angry, I guess because they thought they were being misunderstood and censored, so they made a comic that just vents their anger at those people. This comic is way worse than Wednesday's comic, it's just going to make things a lot worse. So now we're having this thread where most people post long, stupid, angry opinions and it's really hard to have any sort of discussion.
If you want to have a good discussion, you have to keep your anger in check, no matter what.
Are we doing the continuum of suffering again, because I love this subjective and totally biased goosery, Qingu.
Look, I also think it's stupid to argue about what was worse, slavery or the holocaust. There are atrocities that are so terrible that it becomes meaningless to rank them.
Being a Muslim in America is not one of them.
Yes, some Muslims get a lot of shit. I believe one person was murdered after 9/11 because someone thought he was a Muslim (and of course, he was actually a Sikh). People are dicks to Muslims for stupid reasons. This still isn't comparable to getting raped.
I think this is important to acknowledge. Rape is pretty terrible. Getting raped is actually a lot worse than people being mean to you because you're a Muslim. This is why I think we should be more sensitive about the first topic.
I don't think downplaying horrible things is really the direction you'd want this conversation to go
well I mean unless you're into irony
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm overly sensitive to this stuff, but the way I see it, it is the case that, sometimes, making a joke about a disadvantaged group can be a shitty thing to do. Then, if people subsequently misinterpret your intent and get offended, the knee-jerk reaction of simply treating them as "easily offended" and "complainers" is really kinda shitty and/or mean. I think in both cases it's kinda important to understand where the other side is coming from when they say and/or do what they do, rather than immediately lashing out.
I think this is a legitimate debate to have. Is it worse to make fun of Muslims compared to Christians, since Muslims are more oppressed in America than Christians? I don't know. I would probably say "a little," but not significantly. I also think there are important differences between making fun of ideologies (like Islam) and making fun of things we don't choose, like race or gender. Muslims are a disadvantaged group, but they choose to belong to this group, and the group is structured around an ideology that is obviously not above criticism.
Yeah, I'm a little bothered by Friday's incredibly dismissive comic, twenty times more than I was bothered by the original comic (I didn't even notice it until today's comic).
You should never show that you're angry, especially on the internet. It never helps.
The wednesday comic was... a little bad. Not really bad, just somewhat insensitive, but in the grand scheme of things it would be quickly forgotten. However a few people got angry about it, and I guess wrote angry letters to Mike and Jerry.
This made them angry, I guess because they thought they were being misunderstood and censored, so they made a comic that just vents their anger at those people. This comic is way worse than Wednesday's comic, it's just going to make things a lot worse. So now we're having this thread where most people post long, stupid, angry opinions and it's really hard to have any sort of discussion.
If you want to have a good discussion, you have to keep your anger in check, no matter what.
Wednesday's comic wasn't even a little bad and rape was used as a bad thing. It wasn't used lightly or as a joke it was used to show how horrible the slave had it because everyone hears rape and they think that's bad.
I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm overly sensitive to this stuff, but the way I see it, it is the case that, sometimes, making a joke about a disadvantaged group can be a shitty thing to do. Then, if people subsequently misinterpret your intent and get offended, the knee-jerk reaction of simply treating them as "easily offended" and "complainers" is really kinda shitty and/or mean. I think in both cases it's kinda important to understand where the other side is coming from when they say and/or do what they do, rather than immediately lashing out.
I think this is a legitimate debate to have. Is it worse to make fun of Muslims compared to Christians, since Muslims are more oppressed in America than Christians? I don't know. I would probably say "a little," but not significantly. I also think there are important differences between making fun of ideologies (like Islam) and making fun of things we don't choose, like race or gender. Muslims are a disadvantaged group, but they choose to belong to this group, and the group is structured around an ideology that is obviously not above criticism.
As repeated, you can't make fun of rape but everything else is fair game, makes you a silly goose.
Yeah, I'm a little bothered by Friday's incredibly dismissive comic, twenty times more than I was bothered by the original comic (I didn't even notice it until today's comic).
wait, what more could you ask for?
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Yeah, I'm a little bothered by Friday's incredibly dismissive comic, twenty times more than I was bothered by the original comic (I didn't even notice it until today's comic).
Yeah, I'm a little bothered by Friday's incredibly dismissive comic, twenty times more than I was bothered by the original comic (I didn't even notice it until today's comic).
wait, what more could you ask for?
?????
They were receiving a lot of complaints. They mocked them as foolish since that's what they are. Its something they've done in the past.
Qingu: Yeah, humor (like many other topics) is pretty complicated. To be honest, I'm not very knowledgeable about the topic at hand, and I freely admit it, and that I spoke without thinking when I first started posting and probably dug myself in a hole. When I'm talking about a rape joke it could be anything like the fruit fucker or the numerous jokes that have been made in this thread. If you've seen Predators you may remember when one of the character's mentions it's "Bitch-raping time" and we're supposed to laugh (and I admit, I did). But just because the joke doesn't outright demean or show hate for women it doesn't mean it's not problematic.
Yeah, this is my interpretation of the term too. I was just getting confused, because it seems like some people are using the term "rape joke" very narrowly to mean a joke which intentionally makes fun of rape, or trivializes it or mocks rape victims. If these jokes exist, I haven't heard one.
For Dave Chappelle--and other POCs--they can make whatever jokes they want. It's an issue of context. Kind of like (and if I am talking out of my ass someone please tell me) POCs can use the n word, because they're reclaiming it, but that is definitely something non-POCs shouldn't do.
Yis—I don't think jokes can be understood in a vacuum. Jokes have tellers and an audience, and both people's mindsets and experiences are usually taken into account when we laugh at a joke.
I would say that laughing at someone who says a racist joke seriously, even if it's out of disbelief, is not a good idea--it might only encourage them in their beliefs (although it's not on you to preach to them the error of their ways). But maybe if you had a character in a film (like the aforementioned bitch-rapin' dude) who is offensive and shown to be offensive by the other characters around them, not as the comic relief guy...it would be more acceptable??
Yeah, definitely—just to be clear, nobody has ever told me a racist joke in earnest, and if they did I would confront them for being a bigot. When I heard this joke, it was told by a friend who is obviously not a racist, who obviously didnt' think the joke was funny on its own merits but was rather itself the object of shock humor.
But yeah, once again I gotta admit to ignorance on my part. I'm starting to get out of my depth here.
Yeah, definitely—just to be clear, nobody has ever told me a racist joke in earnest, and if they did I would confront them for being a bigot. When I heard this joke, it was told by a friend who is obviously not a racist, who obviously didnt' think the joke was funny on its own merits but was rather itself the object of shock humor.
But yeah, once again I gotta admit to ignorance on my part. I'm starting to get out of my depth here.
Whatevz, your posts have all made sense to me.
This is why loud-spoken POC reclamation blogs are so loud-spoken. This is kind of a white privilege thing, where it has recently become okay to tell racist jokes for shock factor in hipsteresque settings.
I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm overly sensitive to this stuff, but the way I see it, it is the case that, sometimes, making a joke about a disadvantaged group can be a shitty thing to do. Then, if people subsequently misinterpret your intent and get offended, the knee-jerk reaction of simply treating them as "easily offended" and "complainers" is really kinda shitty and/or mean. I think in both cases it's kinda important to understand where the other side is coming from when they say and/or do what they do, rather than immediately lashing out.
I think this is a legitimate debate to have. Is it worse to make fun of Muslims compared to Christians, since Muslims are more oppressed in America than Christians? I don't know. I would probably say "a little," but not significantly. I also think there are important differences between making fun of ideologies (like Islam) and making fun of things we don't choose, like race or gender. Muslims are a disadvantaged group, but they choose to belong to this group, and the group is structured around an ideology that is obviously not above criticism.
I don't think it's quite as easy as saying Muslims as a collective have a choice of being (at least outwardly) Muslim. I think that completely ignores the power of upbringing and social pressure from the group as a whole. For most Muslims, I imagine being Muslim is purely an accident of birth, and they are then brought up in a social milieu where anything else is really unimaginable. I don't know where you're coming from as an individual, but for me at least, having come from a mainly secular (if slightly Christian) upbringing, it would be a bit glib to say that [members of religious group X in general] have a choice.
Well, what do we choose? I see your point; kids brainwashed into a religion don't really have a choice. But likewise, I've been "brainwashed" into secular humanism and a scientific worldview.
I'll grant that ideology (political, religious, whatever) isn't a choice in the same way that choosing an ice cream flavor is a choice. But it's certainly more of a choice than, for example, gender, race, or disability. And rape is by definition not a choice.
Yeah, I'm a little bothered by Friday's incredibly dismissive comic, twenty times more than I was bothered by the original comic (I didn't even notice it until today's comic).
wait, what more could you ask for?
?????
They were receiving a lot of complaints. They mocked them as foolish since that's what they are. Its something they've done in the past.
But it still seems like their mocking is coming from a position of privilege, and (to my reading of it anyway) came off as being a bit callous. For me at least, it'd be similar to mocking someone who got offended at a joke about any other disadvantaged group.
Yeah, I'm a little bothered by Friday's incredibly dismissive comic, twenty times more than I was bothered by the original comic (I didn't even notice it until today's comic).
wait, what more could you ask for?
?????
They were receiving a lot of complaints. They mocked them as foolish since that's what they are. Its something they've done in the past.
But it still seems like their mocking is coming from a position of privilege, and (to my reading of it anyway) came of as being a bit callous. For me at least, it'd be similar to mocking someone who got offended at an ironic joke about any other disadvantaged group.
If their joke had been about rape or played down rape and/or rape victims in anyway I would agree with you.
Yeah, I'm a little bothered by Friday's incredibly dismissive comic, twenty times more than I was bothered by the original comic (I didn't even notice it until today's comic).
wait, what more could you ask for?
?????
They were receiving a lot of complaints. They mocked them as foolish since that's what they are. Its something they've done in the past.
But it still seems like their mocking is coming from a position of privilege, and (to my reading of it anyway) came of as being a bit callous. For me at least, it'd be similar to mocking someone who got offended at an ironic joke about any other disadvantaged group.
If their joke had been about rape or played down rape and/or rape victims in anyway I would agree with you.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that as men we are inherently able to be okay with rape jokes [Or usage of rape as a joke component] in a neutral sense, not having to worry about it as a danger inherent in our society. I think mocking women for having a heightened sensitivity to a topic that is (for many women) a potential danger every fucking day in a way that men really don't have to contend with, and therefore don't see/understand/worry about in the same way is callous.
Edit: I cannot grammaring for shit tonight. Sorry everybody!
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that as men we are inherently able to be okay with rape jokes in a neutral sense, not having to worry about it as a danger inherent in our society. I think mocking women for having a heightened sensitivity to a topic that is (for many women) a potential danger every fucking day in a way that men really don't have to contend with, and therefore don't see/understand/worry about in the same way is callous.
Edit: I cannot grammaring for shit tonight. Sorry everybody!
I think a lot of people would have a lot less issues if someone was upset about one of their comics that actually was a rape joke, of which there was plenty. Like the PS @home joke that in the final frame said you'll be anally raped. Wednesday's comic rape was used to be shown as something horrible. I could see the 4th panel being something like, "We need to show what these slaves are going through is horrible" "I know we'll say he gets raped to sleep every night" "Yeah by dickwolves, that'd be about the worst thing possible that could happen"
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that as men we are inherently able to be okay with rape jokes in a neutral sense, not having to worry about it as a danger inherent in our society. I think mocking women for having a heightened sensitivity to a topic that is (for many women) a potential danger every fucking day in a way that men really don't have to contend with, and therefore don't see/understand/worry about in the same way is callous.
Edit: I cannot grammaring for shit tonight. Sorry everybody!
I think a lot of people would have a lot less issues if someone was upset about one of their comics that actually was a rape joke, of which there was plenty. Like the PS @home joke that in the final frame said you'll be anally raped. Wednesday's comic rape was used to be shown as something horrible. I could see the 4th panel being something like, "We need to show what these slaves are going through is horrible" "I know we'll say he gets raped to sleep every night" "Yeah by dickwolves, that'd be about the worst thing possible that could happen"
But rape was still used for humorous effect. I mean, the entire construct of dickwolves was intended to convey a humorous image.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that as men we are inherently able to be okay with rape jokes in a neutral sense, not having to worry about it as a danger inherent in our society. I think mocking women for having a heightened sensitivity to a topic that is (for many women) a potential danger every fucking day in a way that men really don't have to contend with, and therefore don't see/understand/worry about in the same way is callous.
Edit: I cannot grammaring for shit tonight. Sorry everybody!
I think a lot of people would have a lot less issues if someone was upset about one of their comics that actually was a rape joke, of which there was plenty. Like the PS @home joke that in the final frame said you'll be anally raped. Wednesday's comic rape was used to be shown as something horrible. I could see the 4th panel being something like, "We need to show what these slaves are going through is horrible" "I know we'll say he gets raped to sleep every night" "Yeah by dickwolves, that'd be about the worst thing possible that could happen"
But rape was still used for humorous effect. I mean, the entire construct of dickwolves was intended to convey a humorous image.
bottom line is I don't think a rapist would get that comic
because it's a WoW comic
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that as men we are inherently able to be okay with rape jokes in a neutral sense, not having to worry about it as a danger inherent in our society. I think mocking women for having a heightened sensitivity to a topic that is (for many women) a potential danger every fucking day in a way that men really don't have to contend with, and therefore don't see/understand/worry about in the same way is callous.
Edit: I cannot grammaring for shit tonight. Sorry everybody!
I think a lot of people would have a lot less issues if someone was upset about one of their comics that actually was a rape joke, of which there was plenty. Like the PS @home joke that in the final frame said you'll be anally raped. Wednesday's comic rape was used to be shown as something horrible. I could see the 4th panel being something like, "We need to show what these slaves are going through is horrible" "I know we'll say he gets raped to sleep every night" "Yeah by dickwolves, that'd be about the worst thing possible that could happen"
But rape was still used for humorous effect. I mean, the entire construct of dickwolves was intended to convey a humorous image.
Rape was used to show callous in the hero.
In a trivial context - it wasn't some commentary on how rape is bad. It was basically "How do we mock a particular narrative contrivance in video games. We need something both horrible and funny." Using rape to spice up a WoW joke strikes me as trivializing it.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that as men we are inherently able to be okay with rape jokes in a neutral sense, not having to worry about it as a danger inherent in our society. I think mocking women for having a heightened sensitivity to a topic that is (for many women) a potential danger every fucking day in a way that men really don't have to contend with, and therefore don't see/understand/worry about in the same way is callous.
Edit: I cannot grammaring for shit tonight. Sorry everybody!
I think a lot of people would have a lot less issues if someone was upset about one of their comics that actually was a rape joke, of which there was plenty. Like the PS @home joke that in the final frame said you'll be anally raped. Wednesday's comic rape was used to be shown as something horrible. I could see the 4th panel being something like, "We need to show what these slaves are going through is horrible" "I know we'll say he gets raped to sleep every night" "Yeah by dickwolves, that'd be about the worst thing possible that could happen"
But rape was still used for humorous effect. I mean, the entire construct of dickwolves was intended to convey a humorous image.
Rape was used to show callous in the hero.
In a trivial context - it wasn't some commentary on how rape is bad. It was basically "How do we mock a particular narrative contrivance in video games. We need something both horrible and funny."
Everyone agrees rape is bad right? Like that's not a discussion anywhere on this forum right? Ok so they're saying these quests where you ignore the other slaves are bad because well you're ignoring the other slaves you made your quota and left. I'm sure they weren't the first to think that, hell I thought it the multiple times I've done in multiple MMOs. So they're making the comic and they want to show what the slave is going through is horrible, and they want to make sure no one doubts what the slave is going through is horrible and the hero is callous. What's something we all agree is horrible? rape.
I think this bit from the comments really applies to the comic here
Is it possible to make a rape joke whose punchline isn’t “rape is fun,” “rape is silly”, “rape is like a romantic comedy mishap” “she liked it,” or “she deserved it”? Absolutely. Could those rape jokes be funny? Potentially. Are these the majority of rape jokes made? No. There is a difference between making a joke using the concept of rape, and making rape into a joke. Jokes that rely entirely upon minimizing the prevalence, effect, motives, and horribleness of rape are making rape into a joke, something that isn’t serious, isn’t worth consideration, isn’t potentially damaging the hell out of somebody you know. The subtext is, “Women are raped and that is funny to me.”
the joke in the strip is A Horrible Thing Is Happening, and the Hero doesn't give a shit.
It isn't about how rape is funny and lighthearted, how the rape-ee was asking for it/liked it/it is his/her fault.
They made a joke that involved the concept of rape, rape itself wasn't the joke. It is A Bad Thing.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that as men we are inherently able to be okay with rape jokes in a neutral sense, not having to worry about it as a danger inherent in our society. I think mocking women for having a heightened sensitivity to a topic that is (for many women) a potential danger every fucking day in a way that men really don't have to contend with, and therefore don't see/understand/worry about in the same way is callous.
Edit: I cannot grammaring for shit tonight. Sorry everybody!
I think a lot of people would have a lot less issues if someone was upset about one of their comics that actually was a rape joke, of which there was plenty. Like the PS @home joke that in the final frame said you'll be anally raped. Wednesday's comic rape was used to be shown as something horrible. I could see the 4th panel being something like, "We need to show what these slaves are going through is horrible" "I know we'll say he gets raped to sleep every night" "Yeah by dickwolves, that'd be about the worst thing possible that could happen"
But rape was still used for humorous effect. I mean, the entire construct of dickwolves was intended to convey a humorous image.
Rape was used to show callous in the hero.
In a trivial context - it wasn't some commentary on how rape is bad. It was basically "How do we mock a particular narrative contrivance in video games. We need something both horrible and funny." Using rape to spice up a WoW joke strikes me as trivializing it.
So it how is that different from all of the previous rape jokes in PA comics that rely on the manner of rape being both horrible and funny?
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that as men we are inherently able to be okay with rape jokes in a neutral sense, not having to worry about it as a danger inherent in our society. I think mocking women for having a heightened sensitivity to a topic that is (for many women) a potential danger every fucking day in a way that men really don't have to contend with, and therefore don't see/understand/worry about in the same way is callous.
Edit: I cannot grammaring for shit tonight. Sorry everybody!
I think a lot of people would have a lot less issues if someone was upset about one of their comics that actually was a rape joke, of which there was plenty. Like the PS @home joke that in the final frame said you'll be anally raped. Wednesday's comic rape was used to be shown as something horrible. I could see the 4th panel being something like, "We need to show what these slaves are going through is horrible" "I know we'll say he gets raped to sleep every night" "Yeah by dickwolves, that'd be about the worst thing possible that could happen"
But rape was still used for humorous effect. I mean, the entire construct of dickwolves was intended to convey a humorous image.
Rape was used to show callous in the hero.
In a trivial context - it wasn't some commentary on how rape is bad. It was basically "How do we mock a particular narrative contrivance in video games. We need something both horrible and funny."
Everyone agrees rape is bad right? Like that's not a discussion anywhere on this forum right? Ok so they're saying these quests where you ignore the other slaves are bad because well you're ignoring the other slaves you made your quota and left. I'm sure they weren't the first to think that, hell I thought it the multiple times I've done in multiple MMOs. So they're making the comic and they want to show what the slave is going through is horrible, and they want to make sure no one doubts what the slave is going through is horrible and the hero is callous. What's something we all agree is horrible? rape.
You're completely missing my point. Your (and my) ability to say "rape is horrible" and simultaneously mock women for being bothered by its use in a joke comes from the fact that rape is not a horrifyingly common threat in our day-to-day lives. Barring extreme circumstances [such as our thoroughly fucked up prison system], rape fundamentally does not possess the same emotional weight for us that it does for many women. We do not perceive it or view it in the same way because there is still a drastic difference between societal privileges possessed by men and women.
You're completely missing my point. Your (and my) ability to say "rape is horrible" and simultaneously mock women for being bothered by its use in a joke comes from the fact that rape is not a horrifyingly common threat in our day-to-day lives. Barring extreme circumstances [such as our thoroughly fucked up prison system], rape fundamentally does not possess the same emotional weight for us that it does for many women. We do not perceive it or view it in the same way because there is still a drastic difference between societal privileges possessed by men and women.
You really can't make that claim without knowing the background of the person you're making it to though. Also there are things that hold the same emotional weight to other people and jokes are made about that just the same. My problem being Wednesday's comic wasn't a rape joke.
You're completely missing my point. Your (and my) ability to say "rape is horrible" and simultaneously mock women for being bothered by its use in a joke comes from the fact that rape is not a horrifyingly common threat in our day-to-day lives. Barring extreme circumstances [such as our thoroughly fucked up prison system], rape fundamentally does not possess the same emotional weight for us that it does for many women. We do not perceive it or view it in the same way because there is still a drastic difference between societal privileges possessed by men and women.
You really can't make that claim without knowing the background of the person you're making it to though. Also there are things that hold the same emotional weight to other people and jokes are made about that just the same. My problem being Wednesday's comic wasn't a rape joke.
I didn't say it was. I merely said that rape was used to humorous effect as part of a larger joke. What is your background regarding this? If I've made an unwarranted assumption, I apologize.
How is it different from the subjects like violence that are huge problems for everybody and causes huge emotional problems that PA uses as a punchline often?
So would it be okay if they got beaten and mugged every night? It wouldn't be as funny, because the whole point of the dickwolf rape is because of its absurdity - a creature made of dicks comes to violate them at night, that's horrible beyond measure and the hero just doesn't give a shit.
I mean you probably shouldn't watch Futurama, Bender would probably offend the fuck out of you. He tries to sell impoverished children as food to a chinese restaurant, devaluing the poor and insulting the chinese in one go, and that's like 5 seconds of one episode!
So would it be okay if they got beaten and mugged every night? It wouldn't be as funny, because the whole point of the dickwolf rape is because of its absurdity - a creature made of dicks comes to violate them at night, that's horrible beyond measure and the hero just doesn't give a shit.
I mean you probably shouldn't watch Futurama, Bender would probably offend the fuck out of you.
Bender is a good example. He has killed children as part of gags before. There was the one where he gives his first born son to the devil. In one episode, he bragged about stuffing a bunch of humans, most of them children, into a phone booth or whatever. In both, the point of the gag was that while horrible, they are just so horrible that the actions become a joke about the absurdity of the situation.
Like if someone said they were offended by this comic because its a rape joke I would understand that. Saying Wednesday's comic was offensive for just mentioning rape is a little too walking on egg shells.
So would it be okay if they got beaten and mugged every night? It wouldn't be as funny, because the whole point of the dickwolf rape is because of its absurdity - a creature made of dicks comes to violate them at night, that's horrible beyond measure and the hero just doesn't give a shit.
I mean you probably shouldn't watch Futurama, Bender would probably offend the fuck out of you.
Bender is a good example. He has killed children as part of gags before. There was the one where he gives his first born son to the devil. In one episode, he bragged about stuffing a bunch of humans, most of them children, into a phone booth or whatever. In both, the point of the gag was that while horrible, they are just so horrible that the actions become a joke about the absurdity of the situation.
Do Matt Groening and David X. Cohen have the right to mock parents of murdered children for being offended if they complain?
So would it be okay if they got beaten and mugged every night? It wouldn't be as funny, because the whole point of the dickwolf rape is because of its absurdity - a creature made of dicks comes to violate them at night, that's horrible beyond measure and the hero just doesn't give a shit.
I mean you probably shouldn't watch Futurama, Bender would probably offend the fuck out of you.
Bender is a good example. He has killed children as part of gags before. There was the one where he gives his first born son to the devil. In one episode, he bragged about stuffing a bunch of humans, most of them children, into a phone booth or whatever. In both, the point of the gag was that while horrible, they are just so horrible that the actions become a joke about the absurdity of the situation.
Do Matt Groening and David X. Cohen have the right to mock parents of murdered children for being offended if they complain?
So would it be okay if they got beaten and mugged every night? It wouldn't be as funny, because the whole point of the dickwolf rape is because of its absurdity - a creature made of dicks comes to violate them at night, that's horrible beyond measure and the hero just doesn't give a shit.
I mean you probably shouldn't watch Futurama, Bender would probably offend the fuck out of you.
Bender is a good example. He has killed children as part of gags before. There was the one where he gives his first born son to the devil. In one episode, he bragged about stuffing a bunch of humans, most of them children, into a phone booth or whatever. In both, the point of the gag was that while horrible, they are just so horrible that the actions become a joke about the absurdity of the situation.
Do Matt Groening and David X. Cohen have the right to mock parents of murdered children for being offended if they complain?
Yes they do.
Sorry. "Do they have the right to" in the right to speech sense was a really stupid phrasing. I meant meant that more in the sense of "Would mocking them be somewhat callous and un-empathetic and a general dick move?"
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Ok, gotcha. I also agree that religious persecution in America is no where on the same level as getting raped.
Being a Muslim in America is not one of them.
Yes, some Muslims get a lot of shit. I believe one person was murdered after 9/11 because someone thought he was a Muslim (and of course, he was actually a Sikh). People are dicks to Muslims for stupid reasons. This still isn't comparable to getting raped.
I think this is important to acknowledge. Rape is pretty terrible. Getting raped is actually a lot worse than people being mean to you because you're a Muslim. This is why I think we should be more sensitive about the first topic.
It's all too human, I'm afraid.
The wednesday comic was... a little bad. Not really bad, just somewhat insensitive, but in the grand scheme of things it would be quickly forgotten. However a few people got angry about it, and I guess wrote angry letters to Mike and Jerry.
This made them angry, I guess because they thought they were being misunderstood and censored, so they made a comic that just vents their anger at those people. This comic is way worse than Wednesday's comic, it's just going to make things a lot worse. So now we're having this thread where most people post long, stupid, angry opinions and it's really hard to have any sort of discussion.
If you want to have a good discussion, you have to keep your anger in check, no matter what.
God you're a silly goose.
well I mean unless you're into irony
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Wednesday's comic wasn't even a little bad and rape was used as a bad thing. It wasn't used lightly or as a joke it was used to show how horrible the slave had it because everyone hears rape and they think that's bad.
As repeated, you can't make fun of rape but everything else is fair game, makes you a silly goose.
wait, what more could you ask for?
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
They were receiving a lot of complaints. They mocked them as foolish since that's what they are. Its something they've done in the past.
Yeah, this is my interpretation of the term too. I was just getting confused, because it seems like some people are using the term "rape joke" very narrowly to mean a joke which intentionally makes fun of rape, or trivializes it or mocks rape victims. If these jokes exist, I haven't heard one.
Yis—I don't think jokes can be understood in a vacuum. Jokes have tellers and an audience, and both people's mindsets and experiences are usually taken into account when we laugh at a joke.
Yeah, definitely—just to be clear, nobody has ever told me a racist joke in earnest, and if they did I would confront them for being a bigot. When I heard this joke, it was told by a friend who is obviously not a racist, who obviously didnt' think the joke was funny on its own merits but was rather itself the object of shock humor.
Whatevz, your posts have all made sense to me.
I'll grant that ideology (political, religious, whatever) isn't a choice in the same way that choosing an ice cream flavor is a choice. But it's certainly more of a choice than, for example, gender, race, or disability. And rape is by definition not a choice.
But it still seems like their mocking is coming from a position of privilege, and (to my reading of it anyway) came off as being a bit callous. For me at least, it'd be similar to mocking someone who got offended at a joke about any other disadvantaged group.
If their joke had been about rape or played down rape and/or rape victims in anyway I would agree with you.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that as men we are inherently able to be okay with rape jokes [Or usage of rape as a joke component] in a neutral sense, not having to worry about it as a danger inherent in our society. I think mocking women for having a heightened sensitivity to a topic that is (for many women) a potential danger every fucking day in a way that men really don't have to contend with, and therefore don't see/understand/worry about in the same way is callous.
Edit: I cannot grammaring for shit tonight. Sorry everybody!
I think a lot of people would have a lot less issues if someone was upset about one of their comics that actually was a rape joke, of which there was plenty. Like the PS @home joke that in the final frame said you'll be anally raped. Wednesday's comic rape was used to be shown as something horrible. I could see the 4th panel being something like, "We need to show what these slaves are going through is horrible" "I know we'll say he gets raped to sleep every night" "Yeah by dickwolves, that'd be about the worst thing possible that could happen"
But rape was still used for humorous effect. I mean, the entire construct of dickwolves was intended to convey a humorous image.
Rape was used to show callous in the hero.
because it's a WoW comic
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Everyone agrees rape is bad right? Like that's not a discussion anywhere on this forum right? Ok so they're saying these quests where you ignore the other slaves are bad because well you're ignoring the other slaves you made your quota and left. I'm sure they weren't the first to think that, hell I thought it the multiple times I've done in multiple MMOs. So they're making the comic and they want to show what the slave is going through is horrible, and they want to make sure no one doubts what the slave is going through is horrible and the hero is callous. What's something we all agree is horrible? rape.
It's not.
You really can't make that claim without knowing the background of the person you're making it to though. Also there are things that hold the same emotional weight to other people and jokes are made about that just the same. My problem being Wednesday's comic wasn't a rape joke.
I didn't say it was. I merely said that rape was used to humorous effect as part of a larger joke. What is your background regarding this? If I've made an unwarranted assumption, I apologize.
I mean you probably shouldn't watch Futurama, Bender would probably offend the fuck out of you. He tries to sell impoverished children as food to a chinese restaurant, devaluing the poor and insulting the chinese in one go, and that's like 5 seconds of one episode!
Yes they do.