I found it a bit odd that schools had booths scattered throughout the Expo hall rather than collected together some place. I felt bad when reps from ITT tech or Art Institute wanted to talk to future students while the rock band 3 booth was next door. I think it would be good to keep schools together and away from noisy booths.
I suspect this had more to do with the quality of the school than the location. Most people would assert that ITT is a pretty crap school and whenever I went by their booth it was pretty empty. I'm pretty sure it was empty because most people knew better than to waste their time with them.
Yeah, I was getting kinda tired with the Media people cutting into some booths which couldn't have that long of lines, or else the line will be closed by 5 enforcers until it gets shorter again (may not be the media's fault, but I had to constantly check for open spots in the line, and the media thing didn't help).
I agree with the fact that the yellow badge should be removed, or greatly limited. Blocking them from the main hall line skip was a good first start (people wait for HOURS to get in there), but I do feel that panels and perhaps exhibition hall booth lines need it too.
As a member of the media it's unfortunate to hear that honest attendees where getting bumped in line at demos, but that really is done at the booth's discretion, and not something PAX should regulate. If a company comes and pays big $$$ for their floor space, they can put up walls, let in whoever they want, etc. That being said, any time I did get access to a booth ahead of the line, it was because I had contacted those companies prior to the show and set up a specific time to meet. For panels, concerts, etc., media has no special priveledge and I'd like to see it stay that way, so that PAX will continue being for the fans. Don't turn PAX into E3.
The media-Exhibitor relationship is a mutually beneficial one, it's just a matter of business. Like Gundabad, I was contacted by most exhibitors and set up appointments to come by the booth for coverage. This is typical for an expo. It doesn't mean that the appointment we're running to holds the same place in our hearts as our favorite game franchise, but it does mean that often we are leap-frogging attendees when we arrive at the booth, punctual-like, and there is a line.
A big part of the magic of PAX is that it's gamer-centric. There are exhibitors, and that means there is media. As media we do not want to be the jerks cutting in line, but when we make an appointment with an exhibitor we just feel like that jerk, and obviously some attendees feel like we are, too. It's one thing for us to step past a fellow media member waiting for a later appointment, another to be blowing past an hour of patient fans b/c we have that 11 o'clock. Sure, it's only a moment's difference to the waiting people, but it still creates an us-them situation that we don't relish - you are our readers, after all.
Obviously, we could just not take appointments but the reality is we're paid to be there and get as much coverage for our outlets as we can, and appointments make that possible. Exhibitors want those appointments to get the coverage...it's a whole circle of PR life or something. PAX really isn't the same experience for the Media as for the attendee, and I don't mean that in either a "Media gets the best of everything" or "Media is locked in a cell chained to their laptop providing content" extreme.
I wonder if, to combat this, media hours in the a.m. could be extended? Start them earlier in the morning, run them multiple days, that sort of thing - and ask media and exhibitors to limit their appointments to these times as much as possible. I'm sure you guys consider all the angles (and there is a whole lot that goes into making something the scale of PAX work) this is just my primary feedback from the media side.
We want to be at PAX, we need to be at PAX, we don't want to screw with the vibe of PAX.
This year @pax_lines was *only* for Benaroya. Given how successful it seemed to be, I would expect it to be expanded next year. Would be nice to have a twitter list with all the theatres on it, as well as their individual feeds.
You're killin' me, Trotsky.
Howabout... howabout just line feeds for for LARGEST sat theater. Or a sat theatre line feed for particular panels that we know will be busy.
Because, mang, someone needs to update those feeds manually, and that's a bigger job then you think, there
Make a Robert Khoo / the business behind PA panel! Hell, put it in the main theater. That panel would be amazing, and as someone whose job is similar to Khoo (taking stuff and making it work), I find him and how he got PA to where it is utterly fascinating.
Yes.
I read a short article a few years back in a Seattle paper about Khoo & his adventures with Penny Arcade... the way they started their partnership, combined with some of the character right issues & all that fun... it'd make for an interesting panel.
If Khoo & Crew don't think it'd be interesting enough, they could turn the PA Story into a musical.
We've been asking for a Khoo panel (I believe the favored term is "Khoo & A") for some time...
As a member of the media it's unfortunate to hear that honest attendees where getting bumped in line at demos, but that really is done at the booth's discretion, and not something PAX should regulate. If a company comes and pays big $$$ for their floor space, they can put up walls, let in whoever they want, etc. That being said, any time I did get access to a booth ahead of the line, it was because I had contacted those companies prior to the show and set up a specific time to meet. For panels, concerts, etc., media has no special priveledge and I'd like to see it stay that way, so that PAX will continue being for the fans. Don't turn PAX into E3.
The media-Exhibitor relationship is a mutually beneficial one, it's just a matter of business. Like Gundabad, I was contacted by most exhibitors and set up appointments to come by the booth for coverage. This is typical for an expo. It doesn't mean that the appointment we're running to holds the same place in our hearts as our favorite game franchise, but it does mean that often we are leap-frogging attendees when we arrive at the booth, punctual-like, and there is a line.
A big part of the magic of PAX is that it's gamer-centric. There are exhibitors, and that means there is media. As media we do not want to be the jerks cutting in line, but when we make an appointment with an exhibitor we just feel like that jerk, and obviously some attendees feel like we are, too. It's one thing for us to step past a fellow media member waiting for a later appointment, another to be blowing past an hour of patient fans b/c we have that 11 o'clock. Sure, it's only a moment's difference to the waiting people, but it still creates an us-them situation that we don't relish - you are our readers, after all.
Obviously, we could just not take appointments but the reality is we're paid to be there and get as much coverage for our outlets as we can, and appointments make that possible. Exhibitors want those appointments to get the coverage...it's a whole circle of PR life or something. PAX really isn't the same experience for the Media as for the attendee, and I don't mean that in either a "Media gets the best of everything" or "Media is locked in a cell chained to their laptop providing content" extreme.
I wonder if, to combat this, media hours in the a.m. could be extended? Start them earlier in the morning, run them multiple days, that sort of thing - and ask media and exhibitors to limit their appointments to these times as much as possible. I'm sure you guys consider all the angles (and there is a whole lot that goes into making something the scale of PAX work) this is just my primary feedback from the media side.
We want to be at PAX, we need to be at PAX, we don't want to screw with the vibe of PAX.
I don't think that the media folks are jerks. I think that the exhibitors are jerks for choosing to operate that way during the "open to the public" part of the exhibition. I understand that in general conventions work this way (I've been an exhibitor at a few), but PAX isn't supposed to be like other conventions. I think extending the media hours in the AM is a good idea, or maybe have the exhibit hall have extra media hours after it closes each PM.
As a member of the media it's unfortunate to hear that honest attendees where getting bumped in line at demos, but that really is done at the booth's discretion, and not something PAX should regulate. If a company comes and pays big $$$ for their floor space, they can put up walls, let in whoever they want, etc. That being said, any time I did get access to a booth ahead of the line, it was because I had contacted those companies prior to the show and set up a specific time to meet. For panels, concerts, etc., media has no special priveledge and I'd like to see it stay that way, so that PAX will continue being for the fans. Don't turn PAX into E3.
The media-Exhibitor relationship is a mutually beneficial one, it's just a matter of business. Like Gundabad, I was contacted by most exhibitors and set up appointments to come by the booth for coverage. This is typical for an expo. It doesn't mean that the appointment we're running to holds the same place in our hearts as our favorite game franchise, but it does mean that often we are leap-frogging attendees when we arrive at the booth, punctual-like, and there is a line.
A big part of the magic of PAX is that it's gamer-centric. There are exhibitors, and that means there is media. As media we do not want to be the jerks cutting in line, but when we make an appointment with an exhibitor we just feel like that jerk, and obviously some attendees feel like we are, too. It's one thing for us to step past a fellow media member waiting for a later appointment, another to be blowing past an hour of patient fans b/c we have that 11 o'clock. Sure, it's only a moment's difference to the waiting people, but it still creates an us-them situation that we don't relish - you are our readers, after all.
Obviously, we could just not take appointments but the reality is we're paid to be there and get as much coverage for our outlets as we can, and appointments make that possible. Exhibitors want those appointments to get the coverage...it's a whole circle of PR life or something. PAX really isn't the same experience for the Media as for the attendee, and I don't mean that in either a "Media gets the best of everything" or "Media is locked in a cell chained to their laptop providing content" extreme.
I wonder if, to combat this, media hours in the a.m. could be extended? Start them earlier in the morning, run them multiple days, that sort of thing - and ask media and exhibitors to limit their appointments to these times as much as possible. I'm sure you guys consider all the angles (and there is a whole lot that goes into making something the scale of PAX work) this is just my primary feedback from the media side.
We want to be at PAX, we need to be at PAX, we don't want to screw with the vibe of PAX.
I don't think that the media folks are jerks. I think that the exhibitors are jerks for choosing to operate that way during the "open to the public" part of the exhibition. I understand that in general conventions work this way (I've been an exhibitor at a few), but PAX isn't supposed to be like other conventions. I think extending the media hours in the AM is a good idea, or maybe have the exhibit hall have extra media hours after it closes each PM.
Well, it's definitely symbiotic to a degree. Or parasitic...I kinda slept through Biology.
I only suggest AM instead of PM hours because I imagine it would be less of a logistical nightmare for the event coordinators to have people there early rather than trying to clear the hall. The single media hour is really only good for 2-3 booth stops, having more of that time each day could really take the pressure off the regular hours.
Make a Robert Khoo / the business behind PA panel! Hell, put it in the main theater. That panel would be amazing, and as someone whose job is similar to Khoo (taking stuff and making it work), I find him and how he got PA to where it is utterly fascinating.
Yes.
I read a short article a few years back in a Seattle paper about Khoo & his adventures with Penny Arcade... the way they started their partnership, combined with some of the character right issues & all that fun... it'd make for an interesting panel.
If Khoo & Crew don't think it'd be interesting enough, they could turn the PA Story into a musical.
We've been asking for a Khoo panel (I believe the favored term is "Khoo & A") for some time...
But the story behind all that Khoo has done for Mike and Jerry has already been told multiple times. I'm not in any way diminishing the amazing things Robert has accomplished for PA, but the idea of the panel basically seems to be nothing more than "woo let's hype this up even more even though pretty much anyone who really cares already knows the story!".
The story, yes. But not about the day-to-day goings on. And I'm sure there's even more behind the scenes stuff that goes unnoticed. There have to be good stories there!
This year @pax_lines was *only* for Benaroya. Given how successful it seemed to be, I would expect it to be expanded next year. Would be nice to have a twitter list with all the theatres on it, as well as their individual feeds.
You're killin' me, Trotsky.
Howabout... howabout just line feeds for for LARGEST sat theater. Or a sat theatre line feed for particular panels that we know will be busy.
Because, mang, someone needs to update those feeds manually, and that's a bigger job then you think, there
(killin' me, trotsky.)
I was imagining one enforcer from each sat theatre having the ability to update it via text or something for their own theatre. The count's being kept as we fill the line anyway.
The only reason i said "all" sat theatres is because of what happened with Of Dice and Men. Could probably do with just the biggest sat theatre though
To reiterate the points I agree with so they can be tallied:
-Panel/Concert feeds in certain areas(handheld/freeplay lounges and the like) would be awesome.
-Twitter or some sort of announcement feeds strategically placed throughout the expo hall, also awesome.
-I didn't mind the lines, with this many people its to be expected. For those of us with 3-day badges I found plenty of time to do everything I wanted, win some sweet swag and participate in tournaments, even unexpectedly play and own at Steel Battalion during my PAX XP scavanger hunt and help several people complete the NVidia Scavenger hunt when they saw me wearing the T-shirt.
I could see some line issues for those who have single day passes, but that seems to just be an unfortunate reality for them.
-It was definitely not as crowded as PAX09, loved that the majority of panel goers weren't being star-crossed with those of us living in the expo hall, Beneroya hall was a godsend.
-I can agree that the schools should've probably been grouped together, possibly on the ... "hidden level"? I believe it was called? It had the MSi booth as well as alot of tabletop areas. That probably would've been a good place to plop them all and pull the main PC and game company related booths out in to the main expo hall.
-I can't attest to the Panel/Enforcer relationship, but I did appreciate when the Enforcers took upon themselves to manage the ungodly Subway line, good job guys.
-Unless Scalpers are directly hassling people I believe it is One's own responsibility to handle themselves around them. Wasting the time of Enforcers to disperse them is, I think, a useless idea.
Overall, I thoroughly enjoyed PAX Prime '10. I look forward to pre-registering for PAX Prime '11.
-Better internet: I know this is difficult but it's a necessity at this level of event: Keeping updated on lines and such is essential if you want to have a good time. I rarely got a wifi signal and as such, missed a bunch of meet-ups with people I know because they were trying to email me.
-Short term internet access terminals. These could be small booths placed along the convention centre that have internet access.
-Tighter restrictions on cosplay. I love cosplay, even wanting to myself, but some of the costumes were outright inappropriate to the point of being unneccessary. There are kids here, no matter how much we try and avoid it, so something has to be done. ESRB Ratings are already heavily enforced for the games, so why not the cosplay?
-Try and get more popular panels for the coming years and stick them together. More than one popular panel will fill up, and it will give people a backup. If I can't meet the Penny-Arcade Q&A, At least I can see something else that looks interesting. It's better than having either
A. No other panels
B. Something that fits a niche group like "How to be a Dungeon Master." I mean, I love D&D but I wouldn't want to DM, although I may at some point for the experience. It doesn't appeal to me.
-More advertisement of smaller booths. I don't have the WoW: Cataclysm Beta and I didn't find out until AFTER PAX that there was the Beta there. I could of played some.
-Feeds for popular panel line-ups, that way I don't go all the way up to Floor 6 to find out that the Penny Arcade Q&A is full.
I wonder if, to combat this, media hours in the a.m. could be extended? Start them earlier in the morning, run them multiple days, that sort of thing - and ask media and exhibitors to limit their appointments to these times as much as possible. I'm sure you guys consider all the angles (and there is a whole lot that goes into making something the scale of PAX work) this is just my primary feedback from the media side.
We want to be at PAX, we need to be at PAX, we don't want to screw with the vibe of PAX.
I completely support this idea. I definitely understand the media's need to have certain access that the average PAXer simply can't have -- interviews, a bit more time with the games, etc. -- and I don't begrudge them that at all. Extend the media hours, even have a separate media day on the Thursday before PAX starts (if the exhibitors and media would be up for that), give them the time they need to do their jobs and do them right... but when the expo hall is open to the public, a media badge should count exactly the same as a three-day badge.
This might even give the media folks an opportunity to enjoy at least some of the PAX experience as a "civilian," if they're interested in doing so, since they could focus on getting the bulk of their work done during those media hours.
As I posted in a different thread, the idea of having more than one hour specifically dedicated to Mike and Jerry signing stuff is awesome. I hurried from the second Q&A at Benaroyna to the line for the signing, carrying my copy of The Splendid Magic of PA, and I swear to God I was like ten feet away from Mike and Jerry when they ran off to the last Omegathon. That really fucking sucked after spending maybe an hour and 45minutes on it, not to mention carrying the book around. Maybe next time Gabe and Tycho could sign on the Thursday before or the Monday after to reduce demand during the actual convention? That was literally the only negative experience I had at PAX. This was my first one BTW.
I'm pretty sure Mike and Jerry understand that lots of people that wanted stuff signed missed out on the chance, but limited it to one hour because they had a shitload of other stuff going on. So I doubt you're informing them of anything they're not already well aware of.
I liked the big guy running around cosplaying...he seriously made my day! He showed just as much skin as a "hot female booth babe" (need for speed I'm looking at you @_@) I think we're just being nit-picky here...as for skantly clad women chasing down under-aged boys I think that probably needs to be roped in...
I'mma just leave my two cents here...
The more things people want regulated the less PAX you're gonna get...
be careful what you wish for...I liked the new theatre but it did suck not getting into the concert...but you pick your poison...nice seating but limited? super crowded and standing? We can't have it all our way...unless the problem is major why not thank the powers that be and make this thread a bit shorter
no one's pax was ruined
duke nukem's line was long
space is limited....everywhere
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
edit: cleaned up a little to not be so angry...
First off, I want to thank the media badge people for finally weighing in here. As someone who hopes to be a part of a group with media badge access next year, it's nice to know how it's professionally done (I.E. making appointments) so thanks.
Second, I feel like we all need stop saying that PAX is "not like other cons because it's for gamers" The "for gamers" aspect is the freeplay areas, and free concerts, and awesome panels, and tournaments. The exhibition floor is for exhibitors, aka vendors, to do business with private industry as well as the general public.
I want to make it clear that I love PAX, LOVE IT. It's one of the best shows I've ever been to and I'm a lifetime subscriber now. It's amazing what two guys from Washington have been able to accomplish.
It's still a con though, and runs just like any other con or expo. If you don't like the fact that some booth stepped on your toes by letting in someone from the media ahead of you, then complaining about media badges isn't the answer. Tell the vendor. Let them know you don't approve, write a letter to their community manager so he/she can alert their PR department so they can alert the booth manager. Or just don't support the product if you don't support the company.
It's not fair to blame PA Inc. though. It's not like it's easy to stand out in gaming or media journalism with the competition already so high in place. Saying "well you're not G4 so you shouldn't be here" isn't the right answer.
-Try and get more popular panels for the coming years and stick them together. More than one popular panel will fill up, and it will give people a backup. If I can't meet the Penny-Arcade Q&A, At least I can see something else that looks interesting. It's better than having either
A. No other panels
B. Something that fits a niche group like "How to be a Dungeon Master." I mean, I love D&D but I wouldn't want to DM, although I may at some point for the experience. It doesn't appeal to me.
I personally LOVE the "Art of the DM" panel, and would hate to see it taken off the schedule. I think the Acquisitions Inc. panel this year proved that D&D geeks aren't so much a niche group anymore.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
-Try and get more popular panels for the coming years and stick them together. More than one popular panel will fill up, and it will give people a backup. If I can't meet the Penny-Arcade Q&A, At least I can see something else that looks interesting. It's better than having either
A. No other panels
B. Something that fits a niche group like "How to be a Dungeon Master." I mean, I love D&D but I wouldn't want to DM, although I may at some point for the experience. It doesn't appeal to me.
I personally LOVE the "Art of the DM" panel, and would hate to see it taken off the schedule. I think the Acquisitions Inc. panel this year proved that D&D geeks aren't so much a niche group anymore.
Yeah, I thought this year was definitely D&D heavy, but it's also something that didn't have a lot of coverage in the past from what I've been told. With the launch of the new Magic decks and the D&D essentials box, it was good to see some pen and paper and tabletop attention.
I don't think anyone is blaming Penny Arcade for what exhibitors do as far as favoring media or bringing obnoxious, walled-in booths, but since Penny Arcade does assert some control over what exhibitors may or may not do (eg Booth Babe policy), it is appropriate for us to raise our concerns to them and try to prevent PAX from becoming "just like any other con or expo".
Personally, I feel the media presence was much more obtrusive at PAX East.
Cutting in line during open expo hall hours. I have no problem with the media-exclusive time in the morning, but PAX is supposed to be for the gamer, not the game journalist. Game journalists have so many opportunities to get exclusive access to things; this is one of the only chances that the average gaming enthusiast can have that experience. When the expo hall is open to everyone, that "open to everyone" shouldn't have a "but if you don't have a media badge then you really just have second-class access" attached to it. We don't get to do this for a living; we're just there because we want to be there.
You know, I didn't get cut by a media person at all. I did get cut by plenty of my fellow PAXgoers, though. Most of the time they were gracious and apologetic and all "I'm so sorry" and stepped off when I pointed out I'd been waiting. But the fifth time it happened on Sunday, I lost it a little bit and exclaimed, "Here's the marcated line, here's where I'm standing, what makes you think I'm not waiting for the game!?"
The guy is all, "Because you're a girl."
I know the answer was surprised out of him, and I know that most of the people here will be shocked and appalled-- but for the couple of you (statistically) who may have caught yourselves thinking/doing this, my suggestion to you is to stop thinking in stupid binary gender terms and remember that everyone at PAX is a gamer, irregardless of gender identity, orientation, race, class, or creed.
MarySue on
Portland, Oregon, and sloe gin fizz. If that ain't love, then tell me what is.
+++BRONYS BEFORE BROS!+++
This was my first Prime, but I went to East. My thoughts:
More showings or more room for the play, "Of Dice and Men". So many shiny people were turned away.
More Steel Battalion. Mech simulator epicness with a side of win-bacon.
Please don't put games in the PC free play room if they're not publicly playable. After spending 20 minutes jumping through hoops creating a battle.net account for StarCraft 2, I found out that you had to already own the game to play. The frustration drove me away from the PC room for the rest of the weekend. I think one of the enforcers said Blizzard gave them a bunch of blacklisted activation keys. If that happens, maybe they could just remove the desktop shortcuts on all the PCs?
Bring the PAX East World Maps to PAX Prime. These were posted at the tops of escalators or intersections of hallways and replicated the venue map in the program. Unbelievably helpful, especially where the Seattle Convention Center's layout is like a maze of twisty passages across six (!) floors and two buildings.
Publish the world map as soon as they're finalized. That way, we can print out pocket-sized versions and build them into the iPhone/Android apps. (Amazing job by the Android dev, BTW.)
I went to an informal BarCamp conference back in 2008, and I really liked the way they did their panel schedules. They took 30" or larger LCDs, turned them to portrait orientation, put them outside each theater, and used them to display the upcoming schedule for that room along with a Twitter feed for the conference's hashtag. To echo the other similar comments, I'd love to see these at PAX.
T-Mobile's cell coverage was rock solid all weekend. 3G seemed fine on Friday, but I switched to 2G for the rest of the weekend to save my smartphone's battery.
Things I learned from this thread right here:
Whoa, Seattle buses are free!?! Bus routes to other PAX locations should really be publicized. Maybe even routes to eateries or larger hotels a bit farther away from the convention center.
@PAX_Lines was only Benaroya? But... the name is plural! This explains why I thought it wasn't working. There are, what, half a dozen theaters? I think one Twitter feed could handle them all, they just need to tie in an SMS interface.
Whoa, Seattle buses are free!?! Bus routes to other PAX locations should really be publicized. Maybe even routes to eateries or larger hotels a bit farther away from the convention center.
They are only free in a small area in the downtown core, mostly fine for PAX but one of the boundaries is 9th AVE, just a block north of the convention center. You would have to pay $2.00 if you want to ride outside of the ride free zone, such as from your hotel up to some of the events up on Capitol Hill. We have an elaborately annoying if the bus is outbound from downtown you pay as you leave, inbound to downtown you pay when you get on system. Don't ask.
That said, if there isn't anything officially posted next year, I was thinking I could do a Seattle Transit guide thread. I'm kind of a geek for systematic things like figuring out the transit system.
Please don't put games in the PC free play room if they're not publicly playable. After spending 20 minutes jumping through hoops creating a battle.net account for StarCraft 2, I found out that you had to already own the game to play. The frustration drove me away from the PC room for the rest of the weekend. I think one of the enforcers said Blizzard gave them a bunch of blacklisted activation keys. If that happens, maybe they could just remove the desktop shortcuts on all the PCs?
Our keys were up and running by Saturday. Not sure about the details of the screwup. We were telling people on Friday if they wanted to play SC2, they would need their own keys. It'd be better for the shortcut to be there and let people know that than to hide it from those that might want to and would be able to play.
[*]Publish the world map as soon as they're finalized. That way, we can print out pocket-sized versions and build them into the iPhone/Android apps. (Amazing job by the Android dev, BTW.)
They did this. We had the schedule and maps at least a week before PAX. Did you check in the official website before you hit the show?
They did this. We had the schedule and maps at least a week before PAX. Did you check in the official website before you hit the show?
Do you have a link? I still can't find it, and a google "site:paxsite.com map" search just turns up the PAX East world map. All I can find are the expo hall map and the schedules on the paxsite.com Schedule page, and I don't see anything in the blog. I'm talking about the six-floor convention center layout that shows the locations of each theater and the handheld lounge.
While not strictly about gaming I have to bet that the Phenomenauts would be a great act to book for the concerts next year. I can't see how it wouldn't be to typical PAXer tastes.
[*]Publish the world map as soon as they're finalized. That way, we can print out pocket-sized versions and build them into the iPhone/Android apps.
I've seen this mentioned several times - there were World Maps available at several locations inside the WSTCC. I know there was one up in Bandland, and I know there were ones on the 2nd and 3rd floors near the main escalator columns - because I used them when I got turned around. Perhaps they just weren't obvious enough?
Don't want to sound like I'm harping on Enforcers... they're volunteers and they do a great job, but we did have one experience that left a sour taste which could've been resolved with just... an explanation of what was happening & why.
There was five of us at one point: me, two buddies and their girlfriends. We wanted to go to PC Freeplay, and the girls stopped by the restroom while we waited to get in line. The girls weren't interested in playing anything at that point, but we wanted to stick together.
The line for PC Freeplay was short and moving fast. They started walking up to us when an Enforcer apparently thought they were cutting, and called them back. They explained that they just wanted to hang out with us, and weren't actually going to be using a computer.
They were told spectators weren't allowed and that "some people here actually want to PLAY games."... which I dont get how them sitting on extra chairs or the floor next to us would have prevented... anyway... they felt the explanation was a bit snide and the handling a bit rude... and we were cut off from them with no explanation as to why it was so harmful to have spectators in FreePlay (plenty of people were watching the big screen in there).
Is it for security reasons? Too many people in there lead to equipment walking away? Was it because they thought they were just devious mastermind line cutters trying to get in front of 6 other people?
I dunno... I would've accepted any reasonable reasoning... but no reasoning was provided. And I know Enforcers work long days... and Freeplay has gotta be one of the most hectic areas (by the way, they ran it great other than this one little quip)... but I guess I'd just suggest that Enforcers remember that some attendees are PAX Newbies (or gaming newbies in general) and take the extra step to explain WHY...
"Spectators aren't allowed for security" sounds a lot better than "Some people actually want to PLAY games".
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Moe FwackyRight Here, Right NowDrives a BuickModeratormod
edited September 2010
I think it's more of a fire code issue than a security issue. Your friends would either have to sit on the floor in the aisle or be moving chairs into the aisle, both of which would be in violation of the Seattle Fire Code. If they were to be sitting at computers nearby, they would be taking up seats where other people could be playing games.
It probably could have been stated more politely, but many of the enforcers work themselves ragged, and you may have just caught then on a caffeine crash.
I wonder if, to combat this, media hours in the a.m. could be extended? Start them earlier in the morning, run them multiple days, that sort of thing - and ask media and exhibitors to limit their appointments to these times as much as possible. I'm sure you guys consider all the angles (and there is a whole lot that goes into making something the scale of PAX work) this is just my primary feedback from the media side.
We want to be at PAX, we need to be at PAX, we don't want to screw with the vibe of PAX.
I completely support this idea. I definitely understand the media's need to have certain access that the average PAXer simply can't have -- interviews, a bit more time with the games, etc. -- and I don't begrudge them that at all. Extend the media hours, even have a separate media day on the Thursday before PAX starts (if the exhibitors and media would be up for that), give them the time they need to do their jobs and do them right... but when the expo hall is open to the public, a media badge should count exactly the same as a three-day badge.
This might even give the media folks an opportunity to enjoy at least some of the PAX experience as a "civilian," if they're interested in doing so, since they could focus on getting the bulk of their work done during those media hours.
It's true - I make a huge push to get the bulk of my content (and hopefully panel scheduling works in my favor!) done by Sunday so that the remainder is spent with my photographer/videographer getting footage while we do things like wait in line for Spy Party for 1 hr+.
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whypick1PAX [E] Info Booth Manager~2' from an LCDRegistered Userregular
*snip*"Spectators aren't allowed for security"*snip*
This is what I was telling people who asked about spectating, and it's true. We have a lot of very expensive, very not-actually-ours equipment, and we'd rather not have it start growing legs. Having people who are only going to use PCs in PC Freeplay means they won't be wandering about.
See this is where it becomes difficult. Those women at the Trion both (for Rift and End of nations) stayed at my hotel along with the Trion dev's and I spoke with them for several hours on Sat. They are not as defined "booth babes" they actually work for Trion and know the games very well. They were not hired just to be a pretty face with no brains at PAX. Even the girls wearing not much at all at the Warcraft trading card game were actually somewhat knowledgeable.
Just because some hot woman is advertising a game in a slinky outfit (Asha the girl from the Rift booth is the "cover girl" of Rift just like Firiona Vie was for Everquest) don't assume she is a bimbo that they hired to promote and not someone who knows the product.
That's pretty much what I was saying. Going by the poll results, the things they were going to address in the policy seems to have been followed for the most part, from what I could tell. The reps I talked to/was approached by all seemed knowledgeable about what they were promoting, some more than others. I didn't see any blatant "look at my boobs/ass/etc" marketing except for the Gamecrush "play me" shirts, but they weren't exhibitors afaik.
Just jumping into this late. It appears the GameCrush girls were actually exhibitors.
Personally I'm less offended myself about body parts, though the idea of throwing themselves at underage people is a bit... wrong.
I actually wonder why or how what basically is the equivalent of an escort service for gamers was approved for attendance in any official capacity at an all ages event.
It also kinda goes against that whole PAX is not a dating service rule.
And no this isn't a case of someone being anti-whatever. I have no problem with what consenting adults do, but I don't think this is something that should be sanctioned at an all ages event. Their site even says you have to be 18, and unlike over 18 content on the exhibit floor I doubt they were checking the ID of everyone they interacted with or gave their cards out too.
Being completely fair this is my only real peeve, everything else that I had as issues for PAX East were completely non-issues at Prime. I was completely happy with it and everything else I'd like to see others have mentioned (LCD screens showing twitter feeds live).
I agree that Gamecrush doesn't belong at PAX in any official capacity, but I wonder if they were. I suspect (though I didn't see them and don't know) that they had regular badges. So if they were attending with normal passes and informally publicizing their service, I'm not really sure what PA could do about it without likely reigning things in too much in the process.
I agree that Gamecrush doesn't belong at PAX in any official capacity, but I wonder if they were. I suspect (though I didn't see them and don't know) that they had regular badges. So if they were attending with normal passes and informally publicizing their service, I'm not really sure what PA could do about it without likely reigning things in too much in the process.
The video I posted in the spoiler shows they had an exhibitors badge. I thought they were only normal attendees myself.
none of the PAX locations were outside the free ride zone
the events you're referring to are all unofficial stuff
I'll point out that the free ride zone is, to my knowledge, time-limited; pretty sure after like 7pm you have to pay (not sure what the earliest you can ride free is). I know that I've ridden free from the ferry to PAX (and other events), but often had to pay to get back to the ferry from that same location later in the evening.
Seconded on the idea of showing the Twitter feed on monitors throughout the expo, and clearly marking line cut-offs. Also, there should be more twitter feeds on things such as tournaments so that people can make their way to them.
I'm sure it's been harped on repeatedly (skipped a bunch of pages), but this. Put the screen, and maybe some sort of button (or a keyboard that only allows a one-button input) to flip between all the official and semi-official feeds.
Although I guess really some of us just need to get smartphones...
I also agree that the Paramount, assuming it has standing room, would be better than Benaroya; Google suggests it has a capacity of about 2300, so comparable. Also, there were at least two panels (Wheaton and Acquisitions Inc) that should absolutely have been in the main theater...whatever schedule juggling had to happen, that should have been where they were, because they were obviously going to be two of the biggest draws of the con. There was zero doubt. If this means you have to bump Lucasarts out of the damn main theater, so be it.
I agree that Gamecrush doesn't belong at PAX in any official capacity, but I wonder if they were. I suspect (though I didn't see them and don't know) that they had regular badges. So if they were attending with normal passes and informally publicizing their service, I'm not really sure what PA could do about it without likely reigning things in too much in the process.
The video I posted in the spoiler shows they had an exhibitors badge. I thought they were only normal attendees myself.
That seems pretty dodgy to me then. I mean, obviously it's Mike and Jerry's call but it's not something I like seeing at PAX.
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I suspect this had more to do with the quality of the school than the location. Most people would assert that ITT is a pretty crap school and whenever I went by their booth it was pretty empty. I'm pretty sure it was empty because most people knew better than to waste their time with them.
I agree with the fact that the yellow badge should be removed, or greatly limited. Blocking them from the main hall line skip was a good first start (people wait for HOURS to get in there), but I do feel that panels and perhaps exhibition hall booth lines need it too.
A big part of the magic of PAX is that it's gamer-centric. There are exhibitors, and that means there is media. As media we do not want to be the jerks cutting in line, but when we make an appointment with an exhibitor we just feel like that jerk, and obviously some attendees feel like we are, too. It's one thing for us to step past a fellow media member waiting for a later appointment, another to be blowing past an hour of patient fans b/c we have that 11 o'clock. Sure, it's only a moment's difference to the waiting people, but it still creates an us-them situation that we don't relish - you are our readers, after all.
Obviously, we could just not take appointments but the reality is we're paid to be there and get as much coverage for our outlets as we can, and appointments make that possible. Exhibitors want those appointments to get the coverage...it's a whole circle of PR life or something. PAX really isn't the same experience for the Media as for the attendee, and I don't mean that in either a "Media gets the best of everything" or "Media is locked in a cell chained to their laptop providing content" extreme.
I wonder if, to combat this, media hours in the a.m. could be extended? Start them earlier in the morning, run them multiple days, that sort of thing - and ask media and exhibitors to limit their appointments to these times as much as possible. I'm sure you guys consider all the angles (and there is a whole lot that goes into making something the scale of PAX work) this is just my primary feedback from the media side.
We want to be at PAX, we need to be at PAX, we don't want to screw with the vibe of PAX.
Howabout... howabout just line feeds for for LARGEST sat theater. Or a sat theatre line feed for particular panels that we know will be busy.
Because, mang, someone needs to update those feeds manually, and that's a bigger job then you think, there
(killin' me, trotsky.)
We've been asking for a Khoo panel (I believe the favored term is "Khoo & A") for some time...
I don't think that the media folks are jerks. I think that the exhibitors are jerks for choosing to operate that way during the "open to the public" part of the exhibition. I understand that in general conventions work this way (I've been an exhibitor at a few), but PAX isn't supposed to be like other conventions. I think extending the media hours in the AM is a good idea, or maybe have the exhibit hall have extra media hours after it closes each PM.
I only suggest AM instead of PM hours because I imagine it would be less of a logistical nightmare for the event coordinators to have people there early rather than trying to clear the hall. The single media hour is really only good for 2-3 booth stops, having more of that time each day could really take the pressure off the regular hours.
But the story behind all that Khoo has done for Mike and Jerry has already been told multiple times. I'm not in any way diminishing the amazing things Robert has accomplished for PA, but the idea of the panel basically seems to be nothing more than "woo let's hype this up even more even though pretty much anyone who really cares already knows the story!".
I was imagining one enforcer from each sat theatre having the ability to update it via text or something for their own theatre. The count's being kept as we fill the line anyway.
The only reason i said "all" sat theatres is because of what happened with Of Dice and Men. Could probably do with just the biggest sat theatre though
-Panel/Concert feeds in certain areas(handheld/freeplay lounges and the like) would be awesome.
-Twitter or some sort of announcement feeds strategically placed throughout the expo hall, also awesome.
-I didn't mind the lines, with this many people its to be expected. For those of us with 3-day badges I found plenty of time to do everything I wanted, win some sweet swag and participate in tournaments, even unexpectedly play and own at Steel Battalion during my PAX XP scavanger hunt and help several people complete the NVidia Scavenger hunt when they saw me wearing the T-shirt.
I could see some line issues for those who have single day passes, but that seems to just be an unfortunate reality for them.
-It was definitely not as crowded as PAX09, loved that the majority of panel goers weren't being star-crossed with those of us living in the expo hall, Beneroya hall was a godsend.
-I can agree that the schools should've probably been grouped together, possibly on the ... "hidden level"? I believe it was called? It had the MSi booth as well as alot of tabletop areas. That probably would've been a good place to plop them all and pull the main PC and game company related booths out in to the main expo hall.
-I can't attest to the Panel/Enforcer relationship, but I did appreciate when the Enforcers took upon themselves to manage the ungodly Subway line, good job guys.
-Unless Scalpers are directly hassling people I believe it is One's own responsibility to handle themselves around them. Wasting the time of Enforcers to disperse them is, I think, a useless idea.
Overall, I thoroughly enjoyed PAX Prime '10. I look forward to pre-registering for PAX Prime '11.
-Short term internet access terminals. These could be small booths placed along the convention centre that have internet access.
-Tighter restrictions on cosplay. I love cosplay, even wanting to myself, but some of the costumes were outright inappropriate to the point of being unneccessary. There are kids here, no matter how much we try and avoid it, so something has to be done. ESRB Ratings are already heavily enforced for the games, so why not the cosplay?
-Try and get more popular panels for the coming years and stick them together. More than one popular panel will fill up, and it will give people a backup. If I can't meet the Penny-Arcade Q&A, At least I can see something else that looks interesting. It's better than having either
A. No other panels
B. Something that fits a niche group like "How to be a Dungeon Master." I mean, I love D&D but I wouldn't want to DM, although I may at some point for the experience. It doesn't appeal to me.
-More advertisement of smaller booths. I don't have the WoW: Cataclysm Beta and I didn't find out until AFTER PAX that there was the Beta there. I could of played some.
-Feeds for popular panel line-ups, that way I don't go all the way up to Floor 6 to find out that the Penny Arcade Q&A is full.
I completely support this idea. I definitely understand the media's need to have certain access that the average PAXer simply can't have -- interviews, a bit more time with the games, etc. -- and I don't begrudge them that at all. Extend the media hours, even have a separate media day on the Thursday before PAX starts (if the exhibitors and media would be up for that), give them the time they need to do their jobs and do them right... but when the expo hall is open to the public, a media badge should count exactly the same as a three-day badge.
This might even give the media folks an opportunity to enjoy at least some of the PAX experience as a "civilian," if they're interested in doing so, since they could focus on getting the bulk of their work done during those media hours.
I'mma just leave my two cents here...
The more things people want regulated the less PAX you're gonna get...
be careful what you wish for...I liked the new theatre but it did suck not getting into the concert...but you pick your poison...nice seating but limited? super crowded and standing? We can't have it all our way...unless the problem is major why not thank the powers that be and make this thread a bit shorter
no one's pax was ruined
duke nukem's line was long
space is limited....everywhere
GOODNIGHT SEATTLE! I LOVE YOU!!!!
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First off, I want to thank the media badge people for finally weighing in here. As someone who hopes to be a part of a group with media badge access next year, it's nice to know how it's professionally done (I.E. making appointments) so thanks.
Second, I feel like we all need stop saying that PAX is "not like other cons because it's for gamers" The "for gamers" aspect is the freeplay areas, and free concerts, and awesome panels, and tournaments. The exhibition floor is for exhibitors, aka vendors, to do business with private industry as well as the general public.
I want to make it clear that I love PAX, LOVE IT. It's one of the best shows I've ever been to and I'm a lifetime subscriber now. It's amazing what two guys from Washington have been able to accomplish.
It's still a con though, and runs just like any other con or expo. If you don't like the fact that some booth stepped on your toes by letting in someone from the media ahead of you, then complaining about media badges isn't the answer. Tell the vendor. Let them know you don't approve, write a letter to their community manager so he/she can alert their PR department so they can alert the booth manager. Or just don't support the product if you don't support the company.
It's not fair to blame PA Inc. though. It's not like it's easy to stand out in gaming or media journalism with the competition already so high in place. Saying "well you're not G4 so you shouldn't be here" isn't the right answer.
I personally LOVE the "Art of the DM" panel, and would hate to see it taken off the schedule. I think the Acquisitions Inc. panel this year proved that D&D geeks aren't so much a niche group anymore.
Yeah, I thought this year was definitely D&D heavy, but it's also something that didn't have a lot of coverage in the past from what I've been told. With the launch of the new Magic decks and the D&D essentials box, it was good to see some pen and paper and tabletop attention.
The D&D live panel was amazing.
Personally, I feel the media presence was much more obtrusive at PAX East.
You know, I didn't get cut by a media person at all. I did get cut by plenty of my fellow PAXgoers, though. Most of the time they were gracious and apologetic and all "I'm so sorry" and stepped off when I pointed out I'd been waiting. But the fifth time it happened on Sunday, I lost it a little bit and exclaimed, "Here's the marcated line, here's where I'm standing, what makes you think I'm not waiting for the game!?"
The guy is all, "Because you're a girl."
I know the answer was surprised out of him, and I know that most of the people here will be shocked and appalled-- but for the couple of you (statistically) who may have caught yourselves thinking/doing this, my suggestion to you is to stop thinking in stupid binary gender terms and remember that everyone at PAX is a gamer, irregardless of gender identity, orientation, race, class, or creed.
+++BRONYS BEFORE BROS!+++
Things I learned from this thread right here:
They are only free in a small area in the downtown core, mostly fine for PAX but one of the boundaries is 9th AVE, just a block north of the convention center. You would have to pay $2.00 if you want to ride outside of the ride free zone, such as from your hotel up to some of the events up on Capitol Hill. We have an elaborately annoying if the bus is outbound from downtown you pay as you leave, inbound to downtown you pay when you get on system. Don't ask.
That said, if there isn't anything officially posted next year, I was thinking I could do a Seattle Transit guide thread. I'm kind of a geek for systematic things like figuring out the transit system.
the events you're referring to are all unofficial stuff
Our keys were up and running by Saturday. Not sure about the details of the screwup. We were telling people on Friday if they wanted to play SC2, they would need their own keys. It'd be better for the shortcut to be there and let people know that than to hide it from those that might want to and would be able to play.
They did this. We had the schedule and maps at least a week before PAX. Did you check in the official website before you hit the show?
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Do you have a link? I still can't find it, and a google "site:paxsite.com map" search just turns up the PAX East world map. All I can find are the expo hall map and the schedules on the paxsite.com Schedule page, and I don't see anything in the blog. I'm talking about the six-floor convention center layout that shows the locations of each theater and the handheld lounge.
I've seen this mentioned several times - there were World Maps available at several locations inside the WSTCC. I know there was one up in Bandland, and I know there were ones on the 2nd and 3rd floors near the main escalator columns - because I used them when I got turned around.
PAX Prime Attendee since 2006, BYOC Attendee 2008-2012, Buttoneer 2010-2014
https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/alegria
There was five of us at one point: me, two buddies and their girlfriends. We wanted to go to PC Freeplay, and the girls stopped by the restroom while we waited to get in line. The girls weren't interested in playing anything at that point, but we wanted to stick together.
The line for PC Freeplay was short and moving fast. They started walking up to us when an Enforcer apparently thought they were cutting, and called them back. They explained that they just wanted to hang out with us, and weren't actually going to be using a computer.
They were told spectators weren't allowed and that "some people here actually want to PLAY games."... which I dont get how them sitting on extra chairs or the floor next to us would have prevented... anyway... they felt the explanation was a bit snide and the handling a bit rude... and we were cut off from them with no explanation as to why it was so harmful to have spectators in FreePlay (plenty of people were watching the big screen in there).
Is it for security reasons? Too many people in there lead to equipment walking away? Was it because they thought they were just devious mastermind line cutters trying to get in front of 6 other people?
I dunno... I would've accepted any reasonable reasoning... but no reasoning was provided. And I know Enforcers work long days... and Freeplay has gotta be one of the most hectic areas (by the way, they ran it great other than this one little quip)... but I guess I'd just suggest that Enforcers remember that some attendees are PAX Newbies (or gaming newbies in general) and take the extra step to explain WHY...
"Spectators aren't allowed for security" sounds a lot better than "Some people actually want to PLAY games".
It probably could have been stated more politely, but many of the enforcers work themselves ragged, and you may have just caught then on a caffeine crash.
This is what I was telling people who asked about spectating, and it's true. We have a lot of very expensive, very not-actually-ours equipment, and we'd rather not have it start growing legs. Having people who are only going to use PCs in PC Freeplay means they won't be wandering about.
Just jumping into this late. It appears the GameCrush girls were actually exhibitors.
Personally I'm less offended myself about body parts, though the idea of throwing themselves at underage people is a bit... wrong.
I actually wonder why or how what basically is the equivalent of an escort service for gamers was approved for attendance in any official capacity at an all ages event.
It also kinda goes against that whole PAX is not a dating service rule.
And no this isn't a case of someone being anti-whatever. I have no problem with what consenting adults do, but I don't think this is something that should be sanctioned at an all ages event. Their site even says you have to be 18, and unlike over 18 content on the exhibit floor I doubt they were checking the ID of everyone they interacted with or gave their cards out too.
Being completely fair this is my only real peeve, everything else that I had as issues for PAX East were completely non-issues at Prime. I was completely happy with it and everything else I'd like to see others have mentioned (LCD screens showing twitter feeds live).
The video I posted in the spoiler shows they had an exhibitors badge. I thought they were only normal attendees myself.
I'll point out that the free ride zone is, to my knowledge, time-limited; pretty sure after like 7pm you have to pay (not sure what the earliest you can ride free is). I know that I've ridden free from the ferry to PAX (and other events), but often had to pay to get back to the ferry from that same location later in the evening.
I'm sure it's been harped on repeatedly (skipped a bunch of pages), but this. Put the screen, and maybe some sort of button (or a keyboard that only allows a one-button input) to flip between all the official and semi-official feeds.
Although I guess really some of us just need to get smartphones...
I also agree that the Paramount, assuming it has standing room, would be better than Benaroya; Google suggests it has a capacity of about 2300, so comparable. Also, there were at least two panels (Wheaton and Acquisitions Inc) that should absolutely have been in the main theater...whatever schedule juggling had to happen, that should have been where they were, because they were obviously going to be two of the biggest draws of the con. There was zero doubt. If this means you have to bump Lucasarts out of the damn main theater, so be it.
That seems pretty dodgy to me then. I mean, obviously it's Mike and Jerry's call but it's not something I like seeing at PAX.