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Is it possible to Love someone, but not want to be with them?
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Yup, throwaway account! Don't really know why, because I've discussed this all with my wife anyway. But it is what it is.
/ramble 1
So the background. Been married to my wife 11 years. Have a 10 year old son. And, well, that's pretty much the story so far.
The problem is this: I love my wife very much, but I just don't feel like I can live with her anymore. The past two years, we fight over the stupidest things. We fight over money. We fight over the blankets. We fight over just about everything.
She is a bit of a packrat, and likes to leave stuff lying around the house. Dirty clothes, dirty dishes, empty candy/food wrappers.
She can't drive (no license) and I constantly have to stop what I'm doing (including at work sometimes) to drive her somewhere because it's too hot or it's raining.
She has a bad stomach, has pills for it, but is always forgetting to take them. Hence, we go out to eat and I spend 50%+ of the time waiting on her while she's in the bathroom with upset stomach. And we can't really go out and party/drink because she gets nauseous after only two or three drinks.
But that's not to say all things are bad. We do have fun playing games, going sightseeing, nerding it up with inside jokes. We still compliment each other very well, such as completing each other's thoughts or even knowing what they want to say before they even say it.
And our son is just the most amazing guy I know. Wonderfully behaved, excellent in school, lots of friends.
But I just can't help I'd feel happier being alone. I am in the military, and being away for months at a time seems to be the only way we (or at least I) can put up with all the crap to get to the parts I love. But, like I said, for the past 2 years I've been on shore duty, and it's been fight after miserable fight.
Am I selfish for wanting to leave her for apparently no good reason than I just want to be left alone? I hit a turning point in my life, I suppose (not a midlife crisis, unless 30 is now midlife). I've started eating healthier, working out much more, and wanting to lead a cleaner and more organized life. But I have a hard time doing that sometimes with my wife. I just come home and seeing all the crap lying around just saps my energy and motivation. Which partially carries back over to my work ethic.
Like I said, I've discussed every bit of this with my wife, including the thoughts of spending longer periods of time apart (including permanently apart). She seems very open with whatever I decide, but obviously she wants me to stay. I just don't want to wreck her life or my son's life for my own selfish gain.
TL;DR. I love my wife, but don't want to live with her. Rock -> Me <- Hard Place.
/ramble 0
/ramble 1
So the background. Been married to my wife 11 years. Have a 10 year old son. And, well, that's pretty much the story so far.
The problem is this: I love my wife very much, but I just don't feel like I can live with her anymore. The past two years, we fight over the stupidest things. We fight over money. We fight over the blankets. We fight over just about everything.
She is a bit of a packrat, and likes to leave stuff lying around the house. Dirty clothes, dirty dishes, empty candy/food wrappers.
She can't drive (no license) and I constantly have to stop what I'm doing (including at work sometimes) to drive her somewhere because it's too hot or it's raining.
She has a bad stomach, has pills for it, but is always forgetting to take them. Hence, we go out to eat and I spend 50%+ of the time waiting on her while she's in the bathroom with upset stomach. And we can't really go out and party/drink because she gets nauseous after only two or three drinks.
But that's not to say all things are bad. We do have fun playing games, going sightseeing, nerding it up with inside jokes. We still compliment each other very well, such as completing each other's thoughts or even knowing what they want to say before they even say it.
And our son is just the most amazing guy I know. Wonderfully behaved, excellent in school, lots of friends.
But I just can't help I'd feel happier being alone. I am in the military, and being away for months at a time seems to be the only way we (or at least I) can put up with all the crap to get to the parts I love. But, like I said, for the past 2 years I've been on shore duty, and it's been fight after miserable fight.
Am I selfish for wanting to leave her for apparently no good reason than I just want to be left alone? I hit a turning point in my life, I suppose (not a midlife crisis, unless 30 is now midlife). I've started eating healthier, working out much more, and wanting to lead a cleaner and more organized life. But I have a hard time doing that sometimes with my wife. I just come home and seeing all the crap lying around just saps my energy and motivation. Which partially carries back over to my work ethic.
Like I said, I've discussed every bit of this with my wife, including the thoughts of spending longer periods of time apart (including permanently apart). She seems very open with whatever I decide, but obviously she wants me to stay. I just don't want to wreck her life or my son's life for my own selfish gain.
TL;DR. I love my wife, but don't want to live with her. Rock -> Me <- Hard Place.
/ramble 0
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This discussion has been closed.
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it's good that you have discussed this with your wife
for all of your sakes, your son most of all, talk to a counsellor and think long and hard about what you are going to do
Definitely considered seeing a counselor, and probably will. But I've told my wife what my issues are with her. Many times, over the past few years. Nothing has really changed. Don't see how a counselor will help all that.
She does. And she tries to correct them. But we get a few days, a week at most where we are making improvements before it all just falls apart again, reverting back to the way it was.
It holds you accountable to someone outside the marriage, which can affect change in people, but only if they want to
That said, I've been in a very similar situation, so some pertinent advice:
- No, it's not wrong for you to want to be happy. It is selfish, but that's OK, you're allowed to be selfish for that reason because why would anyone want to be deliberately miserable?
- Go see a counselor. Even if she doesn't come with you. Worst case, it shows the judge that you were sincerely committed to improving your marriage; best case, she comes and realizes that you're serious and you both have hard work to do, but the relationship is salvaged.
- Since you're military, you have free marital counseling services available to you, either on base or at your local VA hospital, use them.
- Be prepared, when you see the counselor with your wife, there will probably be things that she wants you to change too. No relationship problem is completely one sided, no matter how much you'd like to believe that. Essentially, it's not just about your wife changing or getting better about things, but also you changing how you react to her and how you do certain things also.
1) The big issues aren't being dealt with, so you're fighting over a ton of little things. Whenever this happens in my relationship, I sit my lady down and just listen until she gets to what's really bothering her. Then we can work it out.
2) You seem to be losing respect for your wife. Not in a disrespectful way, but a large part of love is respect. I don't know you well enough to say exactly why, but I would guess her not respecting your want to be clean as well as not taking her medication are really both ways of saying without saying "Your needs aren't important to me." Also, I can't imagine a mother that doesn't have a license unless she's legally blind or otherwise severely disabled.
In your shoes, I would see a counselor first. I would tell your wife in no uncertain terms that she needs to get a license.
What I've seen happen in these circumstances (even in a past relationship myself) is that you're going to find someone else that attracts you in a way your wife doesn't, and then you're caught up in a whole new ball of wax.
Too late on that one. :oops: But that really is a whole new ball of wax and mostly irrelevant to the topic at hand. Of course, people are going to call me foolish for thinking them separate.
It seems more out of genuine forgetfulness, not out of spite towards me, that my wife doesn't take her meds. Still makes it frustrating that we can't go out and do things because she feels ill or tired.
but you have to realize that they probably aren't, at least as much as you think
does your wife want to change herself? does she complain that she wants to ger her shit together?
Yeah, let me get on that train. It is absolutely not separate. You are a goose.
Stop hanging out/seeing/talking to this other woman and start therapy immediately if you want to save your marriage. If your wife wants to save it, the behaviors she exhibits are easily fixed.
Have you two gone to counseling re: these problems or even more specifically her problems you outlined?
Might I suggest behavioural therapy? It's essentially behaviour modification, but please don't misunderstand me, its not in any way forcing her to change into something that you would like. It's more of a way of encouraging behaviours that would be beneficial for both of you. To start with something simple, getting her to take her stomach pills regularly so you don't have the consequences that you mentioned.
It's an extremely valid form of therapy and I think it might really help her keep up with certain things she should be doing, like taking pills, and being a tidier person (if for nothing else, to set an example for your son). She needs to be into the idea for it to have any chance at being effective though, and for it to work you would have to be very active during the course of the therapy program. But if you are looking at other options before divorce, this might be worth some thought? It might help her if you were to take part in a program yourself, if there's anything you do that she dislikes greatly.
Perhaps look around for any therapists who specialise in behavioural therapy. I'm sure you can find someone who knows at least enough to point you in the right direction.
I respect what other posters have said about bigger picture problems, but maybe this will help as well. Hell, behavioural therapy might even be able to help with the small fry fights you guys are having, as instead of having those, you talk about whats really bothering you. It sounds like common sense, sure, but you might be surprised what behavioural therapy is able to instill in those who have trouble doing certain things, like talking instead of fighting.
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RE: The other woman. Granted they are not totally separate. She was the one that made me realize just how unhappy I am in my own marriage just by talking and hanging out (plain and simple, nothing more). We don't even discuss my wife when we are talking. I also have no intention on leaving my wife solely for this woman, as I'm 95% certain it wouldn't work out anyway.
Dude
Dude seriously
If you for real want to salvage your marriage and make a real effort to keep your family together, you need to stop hanging out with this woman.
Comparing her nebulous friendship to your not-so-happy home life is just going to destroy you, and when your wife finds out about the "other woman" (even if you're not sleeping with her) there are going to be Bad Things happening to you regarding custody.
If some of this has been going on for years and the OP has addressed the issues in the past (as he's said he has done), apparently they're not easily fixed, or she would have fixed them.
I agree that counselling is a good idea, both for yourselves and in the hopes that issues can be resolved to keep a stable home for your son. Whether or not it can work out is not entirely up to you, but the fact that you and your wife are still communicating is definitely a good sign. Better to try to work on the issues together now than after communications have broken down completely.
To OP: yes it is possible to love someone yet not be able to tolerate her. Attraction to each other takes only lust and passion, but being with another person takes patience and wisdom.
Read over what you wrote again... those things so are minor and not complicated to fix in comparison to "she cheated on me" or "he's a wife-beater". It is worth it to walk out of a marriage with someone you are still totally in love with just because she can't look after herself?
I think there's definitely a need for a few long talk between you and her. Tell her that you are going to shore leave and that you won't always be there to pick up after her, driver her around, and remind her to take pills and that she will have to start learning to look after herself. Don't expect improvement right away, and always give positive feedback to her when she accomplished something.
In regrades to the driving her... I hate to bring up "Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars" but the book is right about men needing their space on their own to think about stuff ala "man cave". My advise is to set up a schedule routine so she knows when she can go out and buy stuff and you can schedule to have time by yourself.
A lot of it is just trying to get her to organize more, but you need to be there to help her and motivate her.
i'm british so
counselling works. it wouldn't exist otherwise
Yes, it does
It doesn't always have the initially desired effect (save my marriage!) but if you commit to bettering yourself it happens
This isn't what anyone has or does say or believe. However, some people just don't know how to TRY, and need accountability to get themselves in gear.
It's also around twenty times cheaper than a divorce.
OP: This other woman thing is bigger than you think if you're comparing her to your home life. That's how things start, but I've ran relationships into the gutter (and then ran one with the other woman into the gutter comparing her to the previous one) because of that other woman, and it started just like that. You're going to her for something you should be going to your wife for, and she's making you realize your wife isn't fulfilling a deeply personal need for you. The more she fills that need, the more she's going to accidentally start filling other needs, like simple companionship, and the more you're going to start seeing her as an alternative. It may never get to the point where she's fulfilling your sexual needs, I honestly believe you won't let that happen. But it doesn't have to. Regardless, she's filling a space in your life where your wife belongs, and she's pulling you away from where you need to be if you want to face your marital problems.
Do not let this discourage you. This is what professionals are for. Her habits are most likely very easily remedied with some help and compulsion.
You say you love her, you just don't want to spend tons of time with her. That's valid, and it sounds like it's been working that way for you guys for a long time, and it may still be if not for the introduction of the "grass could be greener" other woman. 10 years is a long time, and even awesome kids change things. You and your wife have been through a lot together, and it doesn't sound like you're on bad terms. In my opinion you probably owe it to each other to give counseling a try.
Maybe pick a battle. To me, it sounds like one of the bigger problems for you is the fact that your wife can't drive. Driving is a huge mark of independence, and her not being able to do it means that you need to drop everything so that she can continue this dependence upon you. Is there a medical reason that she can't drive, or is it just something she doesn't do? If she could and doesn't, well.. maybe it's time that she did.
Sometimes it's even worse than physical infidelity. I mean, this woman is filling an emotional void that you think your wife isn't/can't. You're not just getting your rocks off, you're looking for more of an emotional connection with someone who ISN'T your wife. You really need to stop talking to this other woman if you want your marriage to work at ALL.
Go to counseling, and try to make your marriage work. Try to make it work for your son's sake, but if it really doesn't work out with you and your wife, don't stay with her and be miserable for your son's sake. That sort of behavior fucks up children. Try and make it work to the point of happiness again.
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olol I can do it too.
You think I'm overestimating the issue, I think you're underestimating the issue, at the end of the day the man is contemplating cheating (of one sort or another) or divorce, so I'd lean towards recognizing the serious problem presented, not just say "counselling and you're done!", which is how you're coming across.
If someone wants to change (for themselves and their situation, changing for another person or trying to change another is a fools game) then sure, it can happen. The situation is not unsolvable by any means, and I hope they're able to get better.
But saying anything about human behaviour at this level is "easy" to modify is goosery. Getting her to not leave dirty clothes and garbage around, maybe. To remember to take her meds, perhaps. All of that and rebuild what damage has been done over years to a marriage? Significantly more work.
The problems the OP has with his marriage can be considered minor compared to something like abuse, infidelity, emotional disorders, etc.
Being a pack rat, not having a driver's license, and having a weak stomach are not "difficult" when you consider the spectrum of relationship problems out there. Just because she hasn't fixed it by now doesn't mean she wouldn't be willing to work at it. Often it takes an outside observer to get people to see the real picture and not their own biased view of how things are going in the relationship.
Counseling will improve communication and make things more bearable, but I don't think it can suddenly make a person attractive again.
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It isn't goosery. Under the right conditions and support structure, it can be done and it probably won't be as hard as you're making it out to be. According to the OP she has already shown she wants to fix these behaviours. That's the first step. The rest is keeping her motivation up, and thats where ACTUAL behaviour modification comes in, with reinforcement and such. I think if she were to get onto some kind of reinforcement schedule, there's a good chance she'll show improvement. It'll take effort, sure, but doesn't every good thing?
The thing about stuff like this though is you usually need at least one other person to keep you on track. It seems the OP is just kind of leaving her to her own devices in this regard. I'm sorry if I'm mistaken, but what are you actually doing to encourage her to, say, take her stomach medication?
She declined therapy but things may not change even though you two have talked about it. Perhaps you could give this a try, it might at the very least alleviate some of your negative feelings towards the marriage and give you some reasons to keep at it.
I'll echo other sentiments here about the other woman, there isn't really much more to say in that regard.
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OP, you say that you love her, but don't want to live with her. Have you considered a trial separation? My parents had a ton of problems when I was little, and they ended up separating for about 9 months when I was little. In the end they decided that they were happier together, and efforts were made to work on things. You two may decide that you're happier apart, or maybe you'll have a change of heart and decide that you miss her quirks, and the rest is workable.
Hell, maybe you'll decide that you still love her but you want to rent the apartment next door and technically have your own place while still being close an sharing your son. People come up with all kinds of weird shit that ultimately works for them, and that's all that matters.
But this is the sort of decision that a counselor can help you both make. You may not need one, but seeing one can definitely make the process easier at times, because if the person is good at what they do they'll be able to listen to you both and ask the right questions.
Having done it myself years ago (one of my first relationships started with me being the "other guy" in it, too), like I mentioned, at least from the perpetrator's end it is worse.
It makes you unhappy with your relationship, or at least more so, as you become more happy with this other person. It can rob you of your will to fix the relationship, and it changes your perception of your relationship. Comparing this person who's right now making you happy to the wife who hurt you just before will always come out in their favor because you've just been hurt.
At the very least, do what I do with my female friends when I'm having a fight with my fiancee and distance yourself from her until things are resolved.
My wife and I have an open marriage. Meaning we discuss everything. Like the many sexual partners she has had, both while I was away and at home. She also knows about The Other Woman (TOW), and how she makes me feel. However, TOW is the first woman I've had more than a passing, casual, or working relationship with, so take that how you will. The wife doesn't seem completely homicidal about TOW, simply because she was in a similar situation with one of her guy friends not to long ago.
Trial separation: Does six month deployments every year count? When I'd return from a deployment, things would be happy, but the annoyances were still there. And given time, they'd build back up and we'd argue more, only to have me leave on another deployment. Is that really a way to live a marriage, looking forward to time spent apart? We have discussed lengthier times, such as me being a geo bachelor. But that remains to be seen.
I do love my wife, meaning we have great times playing video games, watching movies, debating current events, and we still have smashing sex together. Physical and mental attraction is still there, but with all the arguments and such, it seems that the negative is far outweighing the positives at this point.
I know I'm being a silly goose about TOW. But while she might make me happy, I am certain that I am not going to leave my wife for her. We've only really been chatting for the past 4 months or so. We talk maybe once a week, once every other week, and when we hang out it's usually with a gang of our friends. Plus, she's 10 years older than me, and has a 10 year old son (who doesn't hang out with my son). Add on to that her own personal neurosis about stuff, and I doubt it would work out in the long run. But I can't promise I won't hang out with her if she asks. I'm just a sucker with no self esteem.
The wife did agree to go talk to someone this week, so I guess we will see what happens. Ramblomatic 6000 - off.
And this just turned it into some whole other wacky ball of wax. Not touching this with a ten foot pole. Esh out!
Believe me, I wish I could do the same, but I kinda fucked myself on this one.
I hope the OP realizes that counseling certainly doesn't work like that, and doesn't always work at all. It's also not the solution for every problem. However, in this case it does sound like a good idea. We've got someone who is pondering leaving his long-term marriage and son because his wife annoys him. This is a situation which appears to be out of their control, and that means a professional's help is necessary. The stigma against counseling doesn't make sense in a world where people are perfectly willing to go out to eat, hire a plumber, or get a prostitute. Sometimes a professional is the best choice.
That said, I'm generally in accord with many of the sentiments expressed here. It does sound like your wife needs to make some real changes in her lifestyle, and it might be worthwhile for her to get personal counseling as well. You need to keep in mind, though, that you'll be required to examine your life, and make changes yourself.
As to the OTHER WOMAN, stay away! From your posts, it sure looks like you've got an emotional draw to her. I'm willing to bet you're physically drawn to her as well. It's not a problem that you find another woman interesting or attractive. But if she's the one who "showed you how unhappy you are," you're going to eventually want her to show you how to be happy. You need to sit down with her, tell her that you've enjoyed the time you've spent together. You have feelings for her which are causing increased friction in your marriage, and that's most important. And then avoid all contact with her. No calls, no e-mail, nothing. If, in the end, you find that breaking up your marriage is the right choice (and, no doubt about it, it sometimes is) then you can explore this new relationship.
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Yeah...I don't know. I just don't know about that, man.
I mean, it just changes the dynamics.
Eh. A relationship is still a relationship; it just changes the rules of sexual fidelity.
I'm sure this comment is extremely helpful and not sarcastic at all