As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

DmC: Devil May Cry - Ignore the OP/outrage, it's pretty damn good.

1235786

Posts

  • Options
    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Jintor wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Jintor wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Something that doesn't scream HI THERE I'M METICULOUSLY DESIGNED TO APPEAL TO A VERY SPECIFIC DEMOGRAPHIC THAT MAY OR MAY NOT EXIST

    Designed to fit an aesthetic is not the same as designed to appeal to a demographic.

    The aesthetic is also HEY YOU KIDS LIKE GRITTY, RIGHT? AND BROWN? WOOO GRIMDARK GRITTY BROWN!!

    So yeah, he does fit.

    The aesthetic is street punk rebellious counter-culture. But I guess that's also grimdark grittybrown. But not really.

    Which was co-opted and taken over by cynical corporate interests loooooooooong ago. Rebelling by buying a product, woo hoo.

    Also torture is the definition of gritty grimdark.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • Options
    Black_HeartBlack_Heart Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dante was always silly looking. He was a bundle of silly fantasy anime cliches. The whole style was "badass"
    with an emphasis on the quotation marks.

    This Dante does not look like a silly, goofy, self-aware video fame character. This one looks like it was dreamed up by a marketing executive who thought a phrase like "street art" would give him some kind of legitimacy.

    It's also pandering to a demographic that I find somewhat pathetic and irritating, ie gloomy teenage boys.

    These decisions do not bode well for the rest of the game.

    I think you're transposing your personal issues onto this game.

    Thats fine... thats your freedom to do that. But people like me... who just see a video game, with some teenager killing monsters... don't understand that.

    Black_Heart on
  • Options
    taketheblacktaketheblack Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dante was always silly looking. He was a bundle of silly fantasy anime cliches. The whole style was "badass"
    with an emphasis on the quotation marks.

    This Dante does not look like a silly, goofy, self-aware video fame character. This one looks like it was dreamed up by a marketing executive who thought a phrase like "street art" would give him some kind of legitimacy.

    It's also pandering to a demographic that I find somewhat pathetic and irritating, ie gloomy teenage boys.

    These decisions do not bode well for the rest of the game.

    dmc431--screenshot_large.jpg


    Not much has changed.


    Sounds like they want to bring some new blood into an older franchise. More power to them. I remember when I was a kid, y'know.

    taketheblack on
  • Options
    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dante was always silly looking. He was a bundle of silly fantasy anime cliches. The whole style was "badass"
    with an emphasis on the quotation marks.

    This Dante does not look like a silly, goofy, self-aware video fame character. This one looks like it was dreamed up by a marketing executive who thought a phrase like "street art" would give him some kind of legitimacy.

    I don't think DMC became self-aware until 3

    The rest seemed like typical super-serious anime bullshit

    As an example

    I present this evidence

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • Options
    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dante was always silly looking. He was a bundle of silly fantasy anime cliches. The whole style was "badass"
    with an emphasis on the quotation marks.

    This Dante does not look like a silly, goofy, self-aware video fame character. This one looks like it was dreamed up by a marketing executive who thought a phrase like "street art" would give him some kind of legitimacy.

    It's also pandering to a demographic that I find somewhat pathetic and irritating, ie gloomy teenage boys.

    These decisions do not bode well for the rest of the game.

    I think you're transposing your personal issues onto this game.

    Thats fine... thats your freedom to do that. But people like me... who just see a video game, with some teenager killing monsters... don't understand that.

    It's not personal issues, this thing has the stamp of the marketing department all over it. Trust me, this is far, FAR from the first thing to have this feel. This is the epitome of what the Simpsons parodied with Poochie 13 years ago.

    They've Poochified Dante.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • Options
    GraviijaGraviija Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    This is, by a wide margin, the worst thing that has ever happened. Dante looks like an asshole meth addict.

    Graviija on
  • Options
    Black_HeartBlack_Heart Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I don't think DMC became self-aware until 3

    The rest seemed like typical super-serious anime bullshit

    As an example

    I present this evidence

    lol ohh man... I don't think anyone couldn't help but laugh at how fucking corny that was the first time seeing it.

    Black_Heart on
  • Options
    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    -SPI- wrote: »
    I kind of like the look of it, the UKness is certainly coming through with the scummy look of dante.

    I almost want them to go a bit further and have him look just a sliver more bedraggled and drug addled and give him a scottish accent. Trainspotting with guns and acrobatic combat.

    Dude

    I would play this game

    Lots of slo mo stabbing demons with broken bottles.

    ...I have to stop now before I make myself sad that the game I'm imagining is not being made.

    -SPI- on
  • Options
    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Dante was always silly looking. He was a bundle of silly fantasy anime cliches. The whole style was "badass"
    with an emphasis on the quotation marks.

    This Dante does not look like a silly, goofy, self-aware video fame character. This one looks like it was dreamed up by a marketing executive who thought a phrase like "street art" would give him some kind of legitimacy.

    It's also pandering to a demographic that I find somewhat pathetic and irritating, ie gloomy teenage boys.

    These decisions do not bode well for the rest of the game.

    I think you're transposing your personal issues onto this game.

    Thats fine... thats your freedom to do that. But people like me... who just see a video game, with some teenager killing monsters... don't understand that.

    It's not personal issues, this thing has the stamp of the marketing department all over it. Trust me, this is far, FAR from the first thing to have this feel. This is the epitome of what the Simpsons parodied with Poochie 13 years ago.

    They've Poochified Dante.

    No, that's wrong

    See, because Poochie was over the top cool with his skateboard and sunglasses and baggy pants and basketball and he rode off in a convertible with some bitches

    If anything, Dante from DMC3 was Poochified

    This Dante is designed not to appeal to kids who look cool things, but to troubled older kids who get picked on at school because they're different from all the other sheeple, man. He's like one step removed from The Crow, basically

    And so far, it looks like it's doing a really excellent job at appealing to that demographic

    I can recognize quality pandering when I see it

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • Options
    taketheblacktaketheblack Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dante has always been a punk, dudes.

    devilmaycry002fu1.jpg

    OMG DANTE GOES SCREAMO

    taketheblack on
  • Options
    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Beezel wrote: »
    So, can I go to the happy place and pretend that it's regular Dante putting out a cigarette on a demon's eye and not Bizarro-Dante?

    Dante doesn't smoke. He eats a sundae then he jumps on a demon's head insults it's mother and shoots it.


    So this design and the developer being responsible for "lady god of war but not even half as good" has all but ensured I'll never play this game.

    King Riptor on
    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • Options
    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    -SPI- wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    -SPI- wrote: »
    I kind of like the look of it, the UKness is certainly coming through with the scummy look of dante.

    I almost want them to go a bit further and have him look just a sliver more bedraggled and drug addled and give him a scottish accent. Trainspotting with guns and acrobatic combat.

    Dude

    I would play this game

    Lots of slo mo stabbing demons with broken bottles.

    ...I have to stop now before I make myself sad that the game I'm imagining is not being made.

    Dude I don't know, this game just got announced, they're still well into development

    This could still happen

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • Options
    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2010

    This Dante is designed not to appeal to kids who look cool things, but to troubled older kids who get picked on at school because they're different from all the other sheeple, man. He's like one step removed from The Crow, basically
    That applies to every teenager who ever existed.

    They should have had Platinum Games do this.

    Couscous on
  • Options
    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Couscous wrote: »

    This Dante is designed not to appeal to kids who look cool things, but to troubled older kids who get picked on at school because they're different from all the other sheeple, man. He's like one step removed from The Crow, basically
    That applies to every teenager who ever existed.

    They should have had Platinum Games do this.

    So it's really good marketing, then! Dollar signs, baby, dollar signs

    And I think they should have Platinum Games do every game, but that's beside the point

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • Options
    Black_HeartBlack_Heart Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Dante has always been a punk, dudes.

    devilmaycry002fu1.jpg

    OMG DANTE GOES SCREAMO

    hahahaha did you make that?

    Thanks for posting it. This is what I'm talking about. People making a big deal out of aesthetic changes... when they really don't matter that much... at least to me.

    I'm excited by what I saw in the trailer because it looked like fun. People are just too eager to hate something and associate it with something else they dislike and cling to the things they are used to. I just care about if the game is fun and entertaining.

    Black_Heart on
  • Options
    corin7corin7 San Diego, CARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Couscous wrote: »

    This Dante is designed not to appeal to kids who look cool things, but to troubled older kids who get picked on at school because they're different from all the other sheeple, man. He's like one step removed from The Crow, basically
    That applies to every teenager who ever existed.

    They should have had Platinum Games do this.

    I really don't think they left capcom to make games for capcom haha. It would be hilarious though. Also Bayonetta is awesome.

    corin7 on
  • Options
    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Dante was always silly looking. He was a bundle of silly fantasy anime cliches. The whole style was "badass"
    with an emphasis on the quotation marks.

    This Dante does not look like a silly, goofy, self-aware video fame character. This one looks like it was dreamed up by a marketing executive who thought a phrase like "street art" would give him some kind of legitimacy.

    It's also pandering to a demographic that I find somewhat pathetic and irritating, ie gloomy teenage boys.

    These decisions do not bode well for the rest of the game.

    I think you're transposing your personal issues onto this game.

    Thats fine... thats your freedom to do that. But people like me... who just see a video game, with some teenager killing monsters... don't understand that.

    It's not personal issues, this thing has the stamp of the marketing department all over it. Trust me, this is far, FAR from the first thing to have this feel. This is the epitome of what the Simpsons parodied with Poochie 13 years ago.

    They've Poochified Dante.

    No, that's wrong

    See, because Poochie was over the top cool with his skateboard and sunglasses and baggy pants and basketball and he rode off in a convertible with some bitches

    If anything, Dante from DMC3 was Poochified

    This Dante is designed not to appeal to kids who look cool things, but to troubled older kids who get picked on at school because they're different from all the other sheeple, man. He's like one step removed from The Crow, basically

    And so far, it looks like it's doing a really excellent job at appealing to that demographic

    I can recognize quality pandering when I see it

    But at least you recognize that it's pandering.

    I realize that just about everything is at least slightly molded to appeal to a demographic nowadays, though I prefer that it be less violently blatant. It just rubs me the wrong way.

    And as Cous said, the Twihards this appeals to is the 2010 version of Poochie.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • Options
    taketheblacktaketheblack Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The demographics haven't changed at all, the old fans got older. This is a modern version of classic Dante.

    taketheblack on
  • Options
    chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Just wait until they announce that Andy Serkis is doing all the motion capture and voice work for Dante.

    Mwa ha ha.

    chamberlain on
  • Options
    Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    all this thread just makes me want a UK-punk DMC with street brawling and liquor and irish people too



    I hope this game transforms into that

    Feels Good Man on
  • Options
    TurboGuardTurboGuard Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Various Ninja Developers*: ruining your favorite characters, one game at a time!

    Seriously though, first Samus, now Dante...WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!?

    *Fixed for accuracy...FUCKING NINJAS

    TurboGuard on
  • Options
    Radikal_DreamerRadikal_Dreamer Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Well I'm mostly excited. I loved Heavenly Sword. My only problem with it was that Hard should have really been the default normal and then there should have been 2 other difficulties. Other than that, the game was pretty great. I certainly liked it better than most of the DMC games I played.


    TurboGuard wrote: »
    Team Ninja: ruining your favorite characters, one game at a time!

    Seriously though, first Samus, now Dante...WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!?

    Wrong studio. That's Team Ninja. This is Ninja Theory.

    Radikal_Dreamer on
    theincidentsig.jpg
  • Options
    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I don't really care if Dante has black hair or white hair or whatever

    I want a really good and really hard action game with excellent controls and a protagonist who surfs on missiles and trash talks every boss in the game.

    I hope the game is self aware, the series works best when it both cherishes and lampoons ridiculous action movies and anime. Hopefully Dante is impaled within the first fifteen minutes (if he isn't, it isn't a real DMC game).

    Not sure how to feel about Ninja Theory. The "street culture" quote is dumb as shit though. Doesn't mean the game will be bad, good developers say stupid things all the time.

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • Options
    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Dante was always silly looking. He was a bundle of silly fantasy anime cliches. The whole style was "badass"
    with an emphasis on the quotation marks.

    This Dante does not look like a silly, goofy, self-aware video fame character. This one looks like it was dreamed up by a marketing executive who thought a phrase like "street art" would give him some kind of legitimacy.

    It's also pandering to a demographic that I find somewhat pathetic and irritating, ie gloomy teenage boys.

    These decisions do not bode well for the rest of the game.

    I think you're transposing your personal issues onto this game.

    Thats fine... thats your freedom to do that. But people like me... who just see a video game, with some teenager killing monsters... don't understand that.

    It's not personal issues, this thing has the stamp of the marketing department all over it. Trust me, this is far, FAR from the first thing to have this feel. This is the epitome of what the Simpsons parodied with Poochie 13 years ago.

    They've Poochified Dante.

    No, that's wrong

    See, because Poochie was over the top cool with his skateboard and sunglasses and baggy pants and basketball and he rode off in a convertible with some bitches

    If anything, Dante from DMC3 was Poochified

    This Dante is designed not to appeal to kids who look cool things, but to troubled older kids who get picked on at school because they're different from all the other sheeple, man. He's like one step removed from The Crow, basically

    And so far, it looks like it's doing a really excellent job at appealing to that demographic

    I can recognize quality pandering when I see it

    But at least you recognize that it's pandering.

    I realize that just about everything is at least slightly molded to appeal to a demographic nowadays, though I prefer that it be less violently blatant. It just rubs me the wrong way.

    And as Cous said, the Twihards this appeals to is the 2010 version of Poochie.

    Oh hell yeah, it's pandering to the Nth degree

    But it's really good pandering. Like, whoever designed this game should probably get some kind of Evil Marketing Executive Award for this

    Also the whole thing sort of reminds me of what a Hollywood-produced Devil May Cry movie would be. And somehow that's... kind of neat? Or not? I don't know

    And no, this doesn't appeal to "Twihards." For fuck's sake, at least point your nerdrage in the right direction. Not everything gothy or emo is Twilight. Twilight is it's own personal brand of female-specific awfulness. This is, again, more like The Crow or something like that

    This is for teenage dudes, is what I'm saying

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • Options
    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    For real dudes DMC4 was kind of stagnant compared to DMC3. Bring on the change.

    Renzo on
  • Options
    Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Renzo wrote: »
    For real dudes DMC4 was kind of stagnant compared to DMC3. Bring on the change.

    pretty much this




    My DMC4 experience was a never ending groan

    Feels Good Man on
  • Options
    taketheblacktaketheblack Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Dante was always silly looking. He was a bundle of silly fantasy anime cliches. The whole style was "badass"
    with an emphasis on the quotation marks.

    This Dante does not look like a silly, goofy, self-aware video fame character. This one looks like it was dreamed up by a marketing executive who thought a phrase like "street art" would give him some kind of legitimacy.

    It's also pandering to a demographic that I find somewhat pathetic and irritating, ie gloomy teenage boys.

    These decisions do not bode well for the rest of the game.

    I think you're transposing your personal issues onto this game.

    Thats fine... thats your freedom to do that. But people like me... who just see a video game, with some teenager killing monsters... don't understand that.

    It's not personal issues, this thing has the stamp of the marketing department all over it. Trust me, this is far, FAR from the first thing to have this feel. This is the epitome of what the Simpsons parodied with Poochie 13 years ago.

    They've Poochified Dante.

    No, that's wrong

    See, because Poochie was over the top cool with his skateboard and sunglasses and baggy pants and basketball and he rode off in a convertible with some bitches

    If anything, Dante from DMC3 was Poochified

    This Dante is designed not to appeal to kids who look cool things, but to troubled older kids who get picked on at school because they're different from all the other sheeple, man. He's like one step removed from The Crow, basically

    And so far, it looks like it's doing a really excellent job at appealing to that demographic

    I can recognize quality pandering when I see it

    But at least you recognize that it's pandering.

    I realize that just about everything is at least slightly molded to appeal to a demographic nowadays, though I prefer that it be less violently blatant. It just rubs me the wrong way.

    And as Cous said, the Twihards this appeals to is the 2010 version of Poochie.

    Oh hell yeah, it's pandering to the Nth degree

    But it's really good pandering. Like, whoever designed this game should probably get some kind of Evil Marketing Executive Award for this

    Also the whole thing sort of reminds me of what a Hollywood-produced Devil May Cry movie would be. And somehow that's... kind of neat? Or not? I don't know

    And no, this doesn't appeal to "Twihards." For fuck's sake, at least point your nerdrage in the right direction. Not everything gothy or emo is Twilight. Twilight is it's own personal brand of female-specific awfulness. This is, again, more like The Crow or something like that

    This is for teenage dudes, is what I'm saying

    Yup. this is for dudes that go to warped tour. this is for dudes in v-necks listening to every time I die.

    taketheblack on
  • Options
    Black_HeartBlack_Heart Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Renzo wrote: »
    For real dudes DMC4 was kind of stagnant compared to DMC3. Bring on the change.

    Agreed.

    DMC4 felt like they were just phoning it in and not even trying. Nero was a carbon copy of Dante just with more angst and youthful confusion, then add in the content recycling/backtracking and you have a really mediocre game.

    It was fun, don't get me wrong... but wasn't as great as DMC1 and 3.

    Black_Heart on
  • Options
    ChrisAlgooChrisAlgoo Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    New Dante reminds me of some sort of gay vampire.

    ChrisAlgoo on
  • Options
    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    TurboGuard wrote: »
    Team Ninja: ruining your favorite characters, one game at a time!

    Seriously though, first Samus, now Dante...WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!?

    Wrong studio. That's Team Ninja. This is Ninja Theory.

    Heh, and earlier I mistook them for the people who did Ninety Nine Nights. Poor guys

    "Real big-time studio, that Ninja Theory. Lots of name recognition! I loved their Ninja Gaiden games!"

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • Options
    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The changes should focus on making DMC better while keeping the basic atmosphere, general attitude, and gameplay style. You don't necessarily need to keep it the same to do that. This just looks to have the gameplay style at most. It would be like trying to make Mario grimdark figure who hates jumping.

    Couscous on
  • Options
    MongerMonger I got the ham stink. Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    You know, if this was called anything else - absolutely anything else - I'd be pretty excited to see what they were doing.

    I am fucking heartbroken.

    Monger on
  • Options
    Radikal_DreamerRadikal_Dreamer Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    ChrisAlgoo wrote: »
    New Dante reminds me of some sort of gay vampire.

    Really? Because I got that from the shirtless white haired design before.

    Radikal_Dreamer on
    theincidentsig.jpg
  • Options
    DeMoNDeMoN twitch.tv/toxic_cizzle Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    ChrisAlgoo wrote: »
    New Dante reminds me of some sort of gay vampire.

    Really? Because I got that from the shirtless white haired design before.

    I believe he is referring to a certain pa comic.

    I fucking hate that comic. I could never bring up DMC around a certain friend without hearing OH YOU MEAN THE GAY VAMPIRE GAME ABOUT GAY VAMPIRES?

    DeMoN on
    Steam id : Toxic Cizzle
    *TyCart*_banner.jpg
  • Options
    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Renzo wrote: »
    For real dudes DMC4 was kind of stagnant compared to DMC3. Bring on the change.

    pretty much this




    My DMC4 experience was a never ending groan

    Oh. I'm not bashing the game itself.

    Gameplay looks pretty DMCish and it looks like they're trying to add a decent plot with all the crazy parties.

    That being said, I still hate the MC design.

    Dragkonias on
  • Options
    JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I honestly thought this was a new IP when they showed the trailer.

    Jintor on
  • Options
    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Monger wrote: »
    You know, if this was called anything else - absolutely anything else - I'd be pretty excited to see what they were doing.

    I am fucking heartbroken.

    animes.png
    okay maybe that was a little mean

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • Options
    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Someone mentioned Hilary Swank in Boys Don't Cry earlier in the thread and, y'know, that'd be interesting, having a transgendered protagonist. No big publisher would go anywhere near it because of omgays, but still.

    reVerse on
  • Options
    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I know having a goose-off is fun and all, but it'd be nice if we could stay somewhat civil.

    Dragkonias on
  • Options
    MongerMonger I got the ham stink. Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Monger wrote: »
    You know, if this was called anything else - absolutely anything else - I'd be pretty excited to see what they were doing.

    I am fucking heartbroken.

    animes.png
    okay maybe that was a little mean
    This is not a time for jokes, Olivaw.

    I'm in a mood.

    Monger on
Sign In or Register to comment.