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Got my copy of Deathwatch, some thoughts
Rabidredneck
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In Dark Heresy, you were fairly normal citizens of the imperium chosen because an inquisitor saw a potential spark of greatness within you. In Rogue Trader, you were a cut above the norm, humans destined for greater challenges than the rest of humanity could imagine. And now in Deathwatch, you are more than human.
You are Astartes.
Each game in this series has been a higher power level than the previous. Rogue Trader starting characters were worth a 5000 XP DH character. A starting DW character is worth 14,000. Not just higher starting stats, not just the pile of skills they start trained in, not even the bigger pile of talents they start with, many talents ones other games have you wait 3, 4, or more ranks to be eligible to buy. It's bonuses from their surgical implants, from their astartes level armor and weapons, bonuses gained from what chapter they're a member of, and so much more. This is truly a high-powered game, where even single characters can go toe-to-toe with things characters from RT or DH would run screaming from.
In the other games you picked a class and had one skill list divided into 8 ranks to pick from . Space Marines have four. Theres a specialty specific chart, general SM chart, a Deathwatch skill list,and a chapter specific list. Getting new gear is a bit like RT's system. Characters are assigned gear on a per mission basis and get a certain number of Requisition points to get other items. Characters can also pool their Requisition to get stuff individually they couldn't. A lot of the really high-end stuff like power fists, melta pistols and such are limited to characters of a certain Reknown, which is gained by going up in rank in the Deathwatch and completing missions.
The writing in the book is top notch, theres a lot of flavor text to get the player in the proper mindset of being a space marine of a particular chapter. I'm still looking through the squad cohesion rules, and the psyker rules for this game. Space Marine Librarians are a big step up from the psykers from DH and RT.
You are Astartes.
Each game in this series has been a higher power level than the previous. Rogue Trader starting characters were worth a 5000 XP DH character. A starting DW character is worth 14,000. Not just higher starting stats, not just the pile of skills they start trained in, not even the bigger pile of talents they start with, many talents ones other games have you wait 3, 4, or more ranks to be eligible to buy. It's bonuses from their surgical implants, from their astartes level armor and weapons, bonuses gained from what chapter they're a member of, and so much more. This is truly a high-powered game, where even single characters can go toe-to-toe with things characters from RT or DH would run screaming from.
In the other games you picked a class and had one skill list divided into 8 ranks to pick from . Space Marines have four. Theres a specialty specific chart, general SM chart, a Deathwatch skill list,and a chapter specific list. Getting new gear is a bit like RT's system. Characters are assigned gear on a per mission basis and get a certain number of Requisition points to get other items. Characters can also pool their Requisition to get stuff individually they couldn't. A lot of the really high-end stuff like power fists, melta pistols and such are limited to characters of a certain Reknown, which is gained by going up in rank in the Deathwatch and completing missions.
The writing in the book is top notch, theres a lot of flavor text to get the player in the proper mindset of being a space marine of a particular chapter. I'm still looking through the squad cohesion rules, and the psyker rules for this game. Space Marine Librarians are a big step up from the psykers from DH and RT.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town, our hero; cleverly disguised as a hard-boiled egg...
Rabidredneck on
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Some of the Weapons are a bit wonky however.
So I just woke up after falling asleep with my contacts in for way too long. My eyes are a bit blurry.
Here's what I read the above quote as:
"A starting DW character is worth 14,000. Not just higher starting stats, not just the pile of skulls they start trained in..."
I thought for a second that part of character creation was directly tied into how many skulls were on your armor, which signified how high of a level you were. I was really pumped up about that until I did a second read through.
Deathwatch is pretty much the RPG I expected it to be: 80% combat simulator. But from paper it seems done well, with a lot of options, and some well thought out ideas. I particularly like the Requisition per mission idea (Basicly, depending on how hard the mission is, you can take more or less gear to that one mission), which really allows you to play around a bit. The quadriple advancement charts (Space Marine, Chapter, Deathwatch and Specialisation) means that unlike sometimes in RT, you always have interesting choices to make. I also like the Solo/Squad Mode system.
I've been tinkering with how to run it in Maptools, so perhaps a Recruitment will come somewhere at the end of the week. (My main worry is that making the maps themselves is a huge pain, collecting art assets and having to deal with the large range it's involved with, and my other worry is the time it will take to run)
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
All in all looks like it'd be fun though.
edit: someone on another board mentioned trying to run it as a chaos game instead. The players being Red Corsairs or something, i forgot the exact name. Might also have potential.
Chaos game would be fun too.
Theres general "everyone can get" powers and there's chapter specific powers.
This is exactly my point. Shooting things For The Emperor is the end-all, be-all of what it is to be a Space Marine. All other goals are secondary to this (unless you have horns on your helmet, of course :twisted:), and if they aren't, you're not roleplaying the character correctly (again, unless horns).
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
It also means a different playstyle, I just got back from a 4h Rogue Trader session where in total one psychic power was used, one ship macrobattery was fired once, and the rest was Roleplay hijinks (A few auspex rolls and navigation checks, as well as a bunch of lore checks). Such a session seems unlikely in DW, if only because all character goals are almost automaticly very close to the given goal. The most discourse you can get is on the tactical differences approaching a different mission. (And generating that usually requires keeping some part obfuscated, or really good encounter design).
Deathwatch is there to play how it is to be a Space Marine sent on specialist missions. If you don't want to do that, then maybe you can use the game mechanics for a different Space Marine-ish goal (Roleplay Space Marines during the Horus Heresy? Play Chaos?), or maybe you should stick with another game.
Deathwatch is pretty much "Exactly what it says on the Box," and in my opinion it seems pretty good at that (from paper interpretation).
I initially picked it up for PbP games, but each one I've been apart of has died after just a few pages. So I gave up.
As far as picking up the later books, is it necessary to have the DH book?
If I want to get Death Watch do I need to have the DH book (which I do, but I mean for my friends). Do I also need to Rogue Trader book?
Then again, its easy to just go "well we don't have time we're totally more important,"
I do enjoy the book I find it odd that black templars cannot use heavy weapons? I do find it funny in the free rpg death watch book the space wolf had a low weapon skill. I do find the achievement system kind of odd just for extra points to go off and kill a Tyranid just for it's skull as a torphy is kind of out of place for a space marine for me.
With some of the other books comming out next year I am curious which direction they are taking it
However...
By the time we finished our campaign in Rogue Trader, my Explorator had 71 Intelligence and enough equipment to make most Int-based skills a walkover. The same was true with the other members of the team and their key stats, to the point where our last levelling up session was largely taking stuff for shits and giggles (I didn't need a shoulder-mounted grenade launcher and a bolt pistol mechadendrite, but being able to technically fire three times in a round was too amusing to pass up).
It was still fun, and our GM was good enough to provide us with challenging scenarios, but I'm wondering how the power creep works when you can reach 100 score in a skill test fairly easily (71 Int and Tech Use +20, with a multitool).
Also, The Shoulder mounted weapon in RT allows you to fire as a free action, it does not allow you an extra weapon attack (Confirmed in the errata). The Mechandrite Weapon Interface does allow an extra attack.
I haven't seen it, though, so I don't know if it would work well with our particular playstyle.
We tend to be much more explorative horror with our 40k than "woo exploding brains woo". Though we do have our fair share of that as well.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Ah, that's interesting. Is character progression slower? What types of feats are there?
Also, I don't think my DM had read the errata, or had and decided that the Rule of Cool allowed it (as long as I wasn't exploiting the privilege :P)
But what I meant is mainly you can't "minmax" your character as much in DW as in RT, picking multiple origins that give bonus to the same stat. There is only 1 stat bonus giving stage, and it gives +5. That means that the 7/9 stat max out 55+2d10, and two on 60+2d10. (And to get a +25 from XP is either 3200xp, 5000xp, or 8250xp (A whopping 16.5 sessions worth!) My guess is that the latter is because Space Marines are supposed to be very powerful already, and don't become that much better that fast.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23