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originality in gaming
hello bullets
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Is there any originallity left? Two of the biggest games out right now are Legend of Zelda: TP, and Gears. Zelda is still following the same basic formula they've been using for years, and Gears is essentialy just another squad based shooter albiet one with polish and nice camera placements. And these are games i actually like. a few years ago i swore i wouldnt play anything until i thought a game actually had some new ideas, an oath that lasted about a day. i see people ranting about how some budget game was an exercise in borrowed ideas and repetition, and then these same people are giving some blockbuster game a 9.99999 (cause no game is truly perfect) rating even though all it does is tweek the existing formula in a few interesting ways.
have we all gone from jaded full circle back to blind acceptance?
are there any new genres to be discovered? any new ideas? anybody?
have we all gone from jaded full circle back to blind acceptance?
are there any new genres to be discovered? any new ideas? anybody?
hello bullets on
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Okay, now for a real reason. Know why originality in games is slipping? Let me quote something from Phillip J Fry. "The public doesn't want something new, they want something they've seen a thousand times before." Not to say that this is bad, but sales really show on new, original ideas being something of a suprising low, while standards really go far with stuff we've seen before, and things such as sequels. It's not that we wouldn't want to see original things in our games, but it would be a little risky for a company to produce something different and new in some cases.
Loco Roco?
Tokobots?
Okami?
Viva Pinata?
Come on, this last generation was full of original ideas. Animal Crossing? Super Monkey Ball? Chibi-Robo? Stubbs the Zombie? Psychonauts? How far back do I need to go? Fucking Mister Mosquito? People complain about lack of originality and then original games come out and nobody fucking buys them. Did you buy Graffiti Kingdom?
(BTW, regarding Twilight Princess, Zelda has never been about groundbreaking originality. It's about taking existing formulae, doing them really well, and adding one or two new elements. I didn't get that for a long, long time.)
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
How many innovative games involve rolling shit around?
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Well... two, apparently.
Dead Rising
:winky:
You want original ideas? Every system is full of them.
Shadow of the Colossus
Ico
Dead Rising
Trauma Center
Phoenix Wright
Viewtiful Joe
Katamari Damacy
Guitar Hero
The Wii, as a whole.
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@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Conker's Bad Fur Day
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i dont think the big game makers are really willing to risk money promoting unfounded ideas, so they slip quietly onto shelves while the games that have been done a hundred times over get all the fireworks and midnight releases.
and yeah...shadow of the colossus was in my oppinion the best game to come out in the entirety of the last generation. i've been considering a tattoo of the kid stabbing a weak point on my side
Kirby Canvas Curse
Pokemon Ranger
Contact
Cooking Mama
Viewtiful Joe
Okami
ICO
Shadow of the Colossus
Super Monkey Ball
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Madden Wii
PoP: The Two Thrones (I thought speed kills were innovative - they managed to meld combat, platforming, and stealth with awesome results)
Katamari Damacy
Wii Sports
Ikaruga (maybe the colors thing is really a gimmick, but the game certainly has unique strategy and scoring opportunities)
Final Fantasy XII (I think it's innovative to let me program my partner's AI beyond "agressive, healer, etc.")
I'm sure there are more, but I think that's plenty long.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1073830601
http://lostgarden.com/2007/01/project-horseshoe-report-building.html
Highly-recommended read, if you're interested in game originality or the lack thereof.
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Just a really fun action RPG with a card based battle system, sort of.
Maybe if I say its name enough From Software will make a new one.
Real-time weapons change!
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Then again, this is a OLOLZ bash good games thread.
You know what guys. OH MY GOSH zelda has been doing the same goddam near perfect gameplay for years. Shit why dont they change it, add in some crazy graphics or some rolling tingle katamari game.
And SoTC is hardly innovative.
edit: What I'm trying to say is you can present opinions without being so confrontational.
bleh.
Whoops.
I should have italicised half of that text because it was sarcasm, well, italics is the general code for sarcasm in a medium where tone of voice cant be inferred.
By which I mean these threads always devolve into such confrontational backlash, which annoys me.
Me saying that was a bit more of an elaborate way of saying 'Nintendo is doomed' every nintendo thread, which is sarcasm at the hate those threads generate.
Thanks for calling me on it though, so I could explain my reasoning.
In summary, I wasnt being an ass, just pointing out how dangerous these kinds of threads can be, especially from a person who signed up to make it.
SotC completely changed the way boss fights work. The old "wait for opening, stab at weak point" is still there, but that's it. Adding a climbing and grappling dynamic was completely new, as was making the behavior patterns seem like natural animal behavior patterns instead of... well, instead of video game boss patterns.
If other games don't learn some lessons from SotC I'm going to be very disappointed in the games industry.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
You probably put way more thought into this post than you should have. But regardless, I know what you're talking about.
Even then, Katamari isn't entirely original. Marble Madness was based on the same basic principle, Katamari just expanded upon it.
Thread over. Thanks for the link.
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Completely original.
I thought there was some innovation there. It was necessary to weigh whether it was worth it to go grab bananas or take the easiest route. I also thought it was novel to control the tilt of the world instead of the ball itself.
Also, innovation also doesn't necessarily mean fun. Something innovative just means that it's new. I'd rather see a good mix of new innovations and well-polished game paradigms. Sometimes I don't want to do something brand new that doesn't have the kinks worked out. Sometimes it's enough to know that I'm having an extremely refined and well-polished experience even if people were playing similar games years ago.
People here are pointing out names, but these games are mostly exceptions confirming the rule.
Of course, the publishers are not guilty for caring about their money. Its predominantly gamers' fault. There will not be any real vast innovation while crappy games spawned by crappy movie franchises and crappy sequels to crappy games sell more units than an original idea. The market is working in both directions, first - publishers are forming gamers' opinions and aesthetics, and on the other hand - gamers are giving feedback by choosing what to buy. If users do not punish publishers for publishing boring unoriginal stuff, then the publishers do not feel the urge to support original games.
There certainly is an alternative - bypassing the publishers which are generally an unnecessary intermediate level in the communication chain between developers and gamers. We have such a good distribution medium as the Internet, so if we get lucky the business model may change in the future. Things like Steam and episodic games show that there is hope.
anyway, this is a pretty popular article on the topic, parts 1 & 2:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/8/3
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/9/4
Actually its game budgets that are the problem. Most people will risk a small amount of cash on innovative stuff, it's the multi-million dollar budgets that need to be safe ground. I'm an indie developer, so I am only risking my own money (and time) so I can make whatever the fck I want (and do). I would hate to have had to 'pitch' my game ideas to a publisher and explained that there are thousands of people just wanting the game I intend to make, especially if I can't say another (hit) game that it's 'just like'.
If you want innovative games, and aren't a graphics whore, then I might suggest trying out Gish or Bridge Builder or Masters of Defense, maybe even Bettys Beer bar. These are all small, low budget indie games, so don't expect tri-linear bump mapping, but at least they aren't identikit WW2 FPS games or by the-numbers fantasy MMORPGs.
Innovation is limited to a VERY small number of 'bankable' superstar-designers like Will Wright, or the truly independet small developer who can do what he wants. Even the big guys often get nervous witterings from the publisher (I worked for molyneux in the past, and even he does not have carte blanche with the publishers money)
Obviously all my games are massively original, but I won't go on about them as I'll seem like I'm astroturfing
If anything, it's getting to the point where a lot of developers see what people want and are making games that suit those needs.
When people talk about 'originality', generally they don't mean 'wholly unique that has never drawn on other sources ever'. They just mean 'something that deviates substantially from the norm and does something most modern games dont'. Marble Madness, as an example, has no bearing on the game market today and its relation to Katamari has no bearing on Katamari's unique place in the market.
t gotlag - you say publishers are 'generally unnecessary'. Where do you think developers get all that money to pay all those people to make their games? Until devs can find another dependable, stable source of income to fund their projects (and pay their salaries), publishers are far, far away from 'generally unnecessary'.