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Israel Approves a Loyalty Oath to the State

DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
edited October 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/cabinet-approves-loyalty-oath-but-only-for-non-jewish-new-citizens-1.318212
Cabinet ministers on Sunday approved by a majority vote a controversial proposal which would require every non-Jew wishing to become a citizen of Israel to pledge loyalty to "the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state."

Twenty-two ministers voted in favor of the proposal, including most of Likud, Shas and Yisrael Beiteinu. Eight ministers were opposed, five of them from the Labor Party and three - Benny Begin, Dan Meridor and Michael Eitan - from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud.

The divided cabinet spent hours deliberating Justice Minister Ya'akov Ne'eman's proposed amendment to the Law of Citizenship ahead of the vote, including a proposal by Ne'eman himself that the pledge apply to Jews and non-Jews alike.

Defense Minister and Labor Party Chairman Ehud Barak warned earlier Sunday that he would vote against the proposal unless the cabinet agreed to include in the draft an allusion to Israel's Declaration of Independence.

Neither of those amendments was included in the final draft passed by cabinet.

As the cabinet began its deliberations Sunday, Netanyahu reiterated his support for the proposal. "The State of Israel is the national state of the Jewish people and it is a democratic state for all its citizenship," he said. "Jews and non-Jews enjoy equality and full rights."

"Unfortunately, there are many today who tried to blur not only the unique connection of the Jewish people to its homeland, but also the connection of the Jewish people to its state," Netanyahu added.

"Democracy is the soul of Israel and we cannot do without it. No one can preach democracy or enlightenment to us," Netanyahu added. "Zionism established an exemplary national state, a state that balances between the national needs of our people and the individual rights or every citizen in the country."

"There is no other democracy in the Middle East," he declared. "There is no other Jewish state in the world. The combination of these two lofty values expresses the foundation of our national life and anyone who would like to join us needs to recognize this."

Netanyahu's Labor coalition partners believe that his support for the loyalty oath is a sop to Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, aimed at winning his Yisrael Beiteinu party's support for an extension on a settlement construction freeze that expired late last month. The U.S. and EU have urged Israel to extend the construction freeze, and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has warned that he will quit the current round of peace talks if the moratorium on new building in the West Bank is allowed to expire.

So here it is, any non-Jew wishing to immigrate to Israel has to swear an oath that they won't interfere with it's apartheid nature.

What I find ironic that Jews aren't required to swear an oath to the state being democratic. They have no obligation to keep it up.
I swear that I will be a loyal citizen to the state of Israel, as a Jewish and democratic state, and will uphold its laws.

Replace the term "Jewish" with any other ethnicity or religion. The whole oath is a massive oxymoron.

And fuck, they could have added in a couple of other amendments that would not have made it seem so blantantly racist, but no.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/justice-minister-jews-should-be-required-to-sign-loyalty-oath-too-1.318177

This isn't also the end of this, since Yisrael Beiteneu wants to extend this to all non-Jewish citizens.

Equal rights my fucking ass.

And here is a pretty good Haaretz editorial:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-jewish-republic-of-israel-1.318135

DarkCrawler on
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Posts

  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Why does this sound familiar.

    Henroid on
  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    How controversial really is this? I mean, first, this only pertains to people wanting to become citizens and, second, only pertains to people who are not Jewish.

    Will this affect enough people that it suddenly becomes worthy of attention? I doubt it.

    Slider on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    How controversial really is this? I mean, first, this only pertains to people wanting to become citizens and, second, only pertains to people who are not Jewish.
    Why, that just describes a bunch of dirty Muslims...

    Couscous on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Sounds pretty shitty to me, though not massively suprising.

    Solar on
  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    ...wishing to become citizens. The way I understand it is, if you're already a citizen this wouldn't pertain to you.

    Slider on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Slider wrote: »
    How controversial really is this? I mean, first, this only pertains to people wanting to become citizens and, second, only pertains to people who are not Jewish.

    which in itself tells you that it's not about equal rights

    I mean, it's pretty clear that Israel is an apartheid state which is pretty fucking far from a democracy, but this is the first step of them officially moving towards putting it in paper.

    DarkCrawler on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Slider wrote: »
    ...wishing to become citizens. The way I understand it is, if you're already a citizen this wouldn't pertain to you.

    A one-time inclusion of people doesn't equate to all-time inclusion.

    Henroid on
  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Slider wrote: »
    How controversial really is this? I mean, first, this only pertains to people wanting to become citizens and, second, only pertains to people who are not Jewish.

    which in itself tells you that it's not about equal rights

    I mean, it's pretty clear that Israel is an apartheid state which is pretty fucking far from a democracy, but this is the first step of them officially moving towards putting it in paper.

    Not very Democratic, either, but it's not my country and doesn't affect me.

    Slider on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    What is the penalty for breaking the oath? The only thing I saw was to be included in a proposed bill in the haaretz.com piece.
    Interior Minister Eli Yishai said, meanwhile, that he would propose his own bill that strip citizenship off of anyone convicted of disloyalty to the state.

    emnmnme on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Slider wrote: »
    Slider wrote: »
    How controversial really is this? I mean, first, this only pertains to people wanting to become citizens and, second, only pertains to people who are not Jewish.

    which in itself tells you that it's not about equal rights

    I mean, it's pretty clear that Israel is an apartheid state which is pretty fucking far from a democracy, but this is the first step of them officially moving towards putting it in paper.

    Not very Democratic, either, but it's not my country and doesn't affect me.

    Well it doesn't affect you, put it affects relatives of non-Jewish Israeli citizens who wish to become citizens of Israel, and non-Jewish Israel permanent residents who wish to become citizens.
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What is the penalty for breaking the oath? The only thing I saw was to be included in a proposed bill in the haaretz.com piece.
    Interior Minister Eli Yishai said, meanwhile, that he would propose his own bill that strip citizenship off of anyone convicted of disloyalty to the state.

    Honestly, I'd expect an minister to have a better grasp of the laws of his country. You can already do that.
    (a) Where a person, having acquired Israeli nationality by naturalisation -
    (1) has done so on the basis of false particulars; or
    (2) has been abroad for seven consecutive years and has no effective connection with Israel, and has failed to prove that his effective connection with Israel was severed otherwise than by his own volition; or
    (3) has committed an act of disloyalty towards the State of Israel, a District Court may, upon the application of the Minister of the Interior, revoke such person's naturalisation.
    (b) The Court may, upon such application, rule that the revocation shall apply also to such children of the naturalised person as acquired Israel nationality by virtue of his naturalisation and are inhabitants of a foreign country.
    (c) Israel nationality terminates on the day on which the judgment revoking naturalisation ceases to be appealable or on such later day as the Court may fix.

    Article 11, Israeli Nationality Law.

    Oh yeah, that's right, if your parent commits treason you can by virtue lose your citizenship too. What a beautiful democracy.

    DarkCrawler on
  • JuliusJulius Captain of Serenity on my shipRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Slider wrote: »
    only pertains to people who are not Jewish.

    Israel is totally about equality though.

    Julius on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Julius wrote: »
    Slider wrote: »
    only pertains to people who are not Jewish.

    Israel is totally about equality though.

    Jews are just more equal than the rest.

    Incenjucar on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    What's the exchange rate on Jewish equality to Muslim equality?

    Henroid on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    As we all know, there are no refugees or arab immigrants in Israel.

    Couscous on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Look guys, Israel is the ONLY DEMOCRATIC STATE. AND THE ONLY JEWISH STATE.

    We must protect this by the more brutally authoritarian means possible.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Man, "Loyalty Oaths" are creepy generally. And that's before you get slapped in the face with the actual words.

    Fallingman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    As far as creepiness goes, it is at least less creepy than "Palestinian infiltration."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_infiltration

    Couscous on
  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Erm, doesn't the US have a similar pledge that requires swearing loyalty to "One nation under God"?

    Saint Madness on
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Erm, doesn't the US have a similar pledge that requires swearing loyalty to "One nation under God"?

    Creepy...

    Fallingman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Oh right, that's where I was having that sense of deja vu from!

    Henroid on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Erm, doesn't the US have a similar pledge that requires swearing loyalty to "One nation under God"?

    During the Bush years the RNC and Bush himself would have people going to rallies sign a loyalty oath but it was not legally binding.

    Also Canadian government workers have to swear loyalty to the English crown.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Erm, doesn't the US have a similar pledge that requires swearing loyalty to "One nation under God"?

    That generally isn't used as a loyalty oath. It has been declared unconstitutional because of violating first amendment rights if required.
    Typically, a loyalty oath has wording similar to that mentioned in the U.S Supreme Court decision of Garner v. Los Angeles Board, 341 U.S. 716.
    "I further swear (or affirm) that I do not advise, advocate or teach, and have not within the period beginning five (5) years prior to the effective date of the ordinance requiring the making of this oath or affirmation, advised, advocated or taught, the overthrow by force, violence or other unlawful means, of the Government of the United States of America or of the State of California and that I am not now and have not, within said period, been or become a member of or affiliated with any group, society, association, organization or party which advises, advocates or teaches, or has, within said period, advised, advocated or taught, the overthrow by force, violence or other unlawful means of the Government of the United States of America, or of the State of California. I further swear (or affirm) that I will not, while I am in the service of the City of Los Angeles, advise, advocate or teach, or be or become a member of or affiliated with any group, association, society, organization or party which advises, advocates or teaches, or has within said period, advised, advocated or taught, the overthrow by force, violence or other unlawful means, of the Government of the United States of America or of the State of California . . . ."

    Couscous on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Erm, doesn't the US have a similar pledge that requires swearing loyalty to "One nation under God"?

    It aint cool when they do it either.

    Solar on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Basically loyalty oaths stink.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Kagera wrote: »
    Erm, doesn't the US have a similar pledge that requires swearing loyalty to "One nation under God"?

    During the Bush years the RNC and Bush himself would have people going to rallies sign a loyalty oath but it was not legally binding.

    Also Canadian government workers have to swear loyalty to the English crown.

    Well the Queen is the constitutional head of state in both Canada and Australia so that isn't really too bad, a weird sentiment coming from an Irishman I know but still..

    Saint Madness on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    ...And Isreal is just one step closer to being this century's Nazi Germany. Congrats. History really does repeat itself.

    OtakuD00D on
    mw5qfhr7t7d2.jpg
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    This is the one used by immigration:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_%28United_States%29
    I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.[1]
    8 C.F.R. 337.1 provides that the phrase "so help me God" is optional and that the words ‘on oath’ can be substituted with ‘and solemnly affirm’. Also, if the prospective citizen can prove such commitments are in violation with his or her religion, the lines "that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform non-combatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by law" are sometimes omitted.

    Couscous on
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    I get really uneasy about the idea of simply living somewhere means that you've picked a side. I don't care where it is. These things just have really ugly implications to me.

    Fallingman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    ...And Isreal is just one step closer to being this century's Nazi Germany. Congrats. History really does repeat itself.

    oh come on.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User regular
    edited October 2010
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    ...And Isreal is just one step closer to being this century's Nazi Germany. Congrats. History really does repeat itself.

    mass extermination camps! cattle cars! executions of thousands of people at a time!

    there are innumerable comparisons that could be drawn- this snarky, rhetoric-heavy, substance-lite analog is tasteless and totally disproportionate.

    Organichu on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    ...And Isreal is just one step closer to being this century's Nazi Germany. Congrats. History really does repeat itself.

    How can you sleep at night, Mr. Beck?

    Henroid on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    OtakuD00D wrote: »
    ...And Isreal is just one step closer to being this century's Nazi Germany. Congrats. History really does repeat itself.

    This century's Apartheid South Africa is a better comparison. In my opinion it's pretty much there already. Not as blatantly, but this is simply another step towards it.

    DarkCrawler on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The language of the new oath would not apply to immigrants coming to Israel under what is called the "Law of Return" that allows converted Jews and people with Jewish ancestry the right to settle in Israel and acquire citizenship.
    So neo-Nazis from Russia with Jewish ancestry and atheist communist Jews wouldn't have to take the oath? It is totally not aimed at Arabs. /sarcasm

    Couscous on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Comparisons to the U.S. oath are useless.
    I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; that I will help to preserve the United States' identity as a Christian white state; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

    A) "So help me God" is optional

    B) The fact that it's so goddamn long means that it's edited very strictly to make sure that all bases that might offend anyone are covered

    C) Every immigrant, regardless of their race or religion has to take it

    D) Notice what I changed there

    DarkCrawler on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Comparisons to the U.S. oath are useless.
    I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; that I will help to preserve the United States' identity as a Christian white state; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

    A) "So help me God" is optional

    B) The fact that it's so goddamn long means that it's edited very strictly to make sure that all bases that might offend anyone are covered

    C) Every immigrant, regardless of their race or religion has to take it

    D) Notice what I changed there

    Let's also note the fucking huge elephant in the room - that if you immigrate to the US and swear loyalty, this does not prohibit you from advocating for the change of the government through legal channels. In comparison, Israel is saying that non-Jews immigrating must avow that Israel is a Jewish and democratic state, and that if they then advocate for the change of either, then they break their oath.

    Which is the fucked up part.

    AngelHedgie on
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  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    The oath is fucking stupid and hopefully the Israeli supreme court will overturn it.

    HOWEVER, anyone comparing Israel to nazi Germany over this is just using this as an excuse to attack israel for preconcieved whatevers. The oath doesn't say Jewish state, it says Jewish and Democratic state. If you're going to criticize them for their words, then read all of them.

    Evander on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    And, for the record, the fact that this bill passed was ENTIRELY politics.

    Netanyahu allowed this to go through as a chit to keep Yisrael Beitenu on his side. Had he opposed this he would have lost YB, and the PM position along with them (due to the lack of seats in the coalition after that.)

    This is not in any way a defense of Netanyahu. Bibi has shown plenty fo times that he is more worried about power than eace, and that is NOT what Israel needs in a PM, especially right now. What it is is a defense against all of the critics declaring that this is an attack by Israel against arabs. This is an attack against arabs by YB, not by Israel as a whole. It is unfortunate that politics allowed this to go through, and I SINCERELY hope that accountability for this sort of bullshit leads to YB being pushed out of power.

    Blaming all of Israel for this actually takes accountability off of YB on the global stage, which is bad for everyone. Just like it is important that people recognize that the BNP are racist, so that their motivations are always clear, people need to realize just how awful YB and Avigdor Lieberman are, and how much damage they, personally, are doing to Israel, and to the Palestinians, and to all of the middle east.

    Evander on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    The oath is fucking stupid and hopefully the Israeli supreme court will overturn it.

    HOWEVER, anyone comparing Israel to nazi Germany over this is just using this as an excuse to attack israel for preconcieved whatevers. The oath doesn't say Jewish state, it says Jewish and Democratic state. If you're going to criticize them for their words, then read all of them.

    unless you're Jewish

    then you don't need to bother

    nexuscrawler on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    The oath is fucking stupid and hopefully the Israeli supreme court will overturn it.

    HOWEVER, anyone comparing Israel to nazi Germany over this is just using this as an excuse to attack israel for preconcieved whatevers. The oath doesn't say Jewish state, it says Jewish and Democratic state. If you're going to criticize them for their words, then read all of them.

    unless you're Jewish

    then you don't need to bother

    which is exactly why the supreme court will strike it down when it is challenged

    Evander on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited October 2010
    So if I'm reading this right, any non-Jewish immigrant who advocates for secular democracy loses their citizenship?

    jothki on
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