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A rant, an explanation, and a question (for help)
Frust
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I was terminated from my job today.
I work(ed) commission retail. The mattress industry. For clarity.
The incident in question happened several weeks ago.
There was a commission dispute which was resolved correctly and successfully.
I'll try to make this uncomplicated if I can:
We work on a turn system.
Any person that comes into the store and asks about any related product, whether we carry it or not, is a "turn" or a "up". When you deal with customer service/warranty issues, that is not an "up".
Co-worker "Sally" was dealing with a customer service issue for quite some time, and as customers came and went, it came upon her turn. But she was not finished.
In these incidents, you are supposed to pass off your customer service issue to a co worker who just had their turn, and take your "up".
Sally did not do this however, and asked me to greet the customer (her "up") and introduce them to our products and such to get a feel for what they are looking for. I was not the person that had their turn before her, but that person (the manger interestingly enough) did not want to do so, so I did, introducing the customers to products that fell into the needs they had described.
Now normally, when you are in a situation where you just cannot get away from a customer service or warranty issue, you "split" the up that you are covering and give half the sale of YOUR next "up" to that person in order to remain as even as possible. I have never been a fan of this system as it is extremely exploitable and I believe this is what happened to me.
If you check my post history, I believe I made a thread before, regarding this same person if you wish to read about previous situations.
Quick scenario if you're still confused:
You see, The customer that I was dealing with was looking for an inexpensive product. Price was the only issue and they needed cheap. When Sally heard this, I posit that she decided to enact the "Split protocol" because she could not pass off the customer service situation (now at the most optimal time to do so, when you are at the computer typing in the changes, as was this specific situation) and "socialize" the "poor quality" of the "up" to me in hopes that I would have more luck with a better opportunity. Since the store was full, and there is literally no way to disagree, or deny the split, I went along with it without comment or complaint, because I was trying to be a professional.
Such a case happened and I managed to sell my next opportunity. It was pretty big. I worked hard, and talked the HELL out of the product. I was essentially selling a ketchup popsicle to a woman in white gloves (Tommyboy). I made about 400 dollars on the deal. The "Up" that I had covered for her didn't buy anything, and neither of us made a dime on that.
I was excited and accidentally wrote only my name on the order, meaning only I would get commission. You can alter orders at any time before (and after via accounting department) delivery to the customer to include or split commissions among people. Before I was even done speaking with my customer, Sally began calling me a "fucking thief" and claimed "He's ripping me off again" to my co-workers (I have never ripped her off before, and have no clue where the basis of this comment is rooted). I overheard this. when I returned the counter, the manager approached and asked if I was supposed to split that with Sally. After a moment of thought, I had realized my mistake (as Sally had looked IMMEDIATELY at the commission report for the day), admitted it openly, and changed the order without a word. To this very DAY, that order still has not gone out, and is perfectly editable RIGHT NOW. You have to understand that this happens, and these situations are resolvable post-sale because they happen frequently. Commission based work is difficult to make fair for everyone. The company I worked for had a system that surely made the best attempt possible, but there are literally hundreds of possible grey areas. Too many conceivable situations can happen that completely change the applicability of some rules. Or some situations described as part of the rule system does not accurately represent the situation.
I was angry however at Sally's words. They were uncalled for. I had made a mistake which I rectified without negative comment and admitted as much. It would have literally been impossible for me to write my own name on the order, and not Sally's and get away with it. 0.0000000%~ chance of that happening. Anyone in the store can check the daily commission report at any time. She had realized and start insulting me BEFORE THE CUSTOMER EVEN LEFT THE STORE. The manager said to me that if I had any issues, I could stay and discuss them with him.
I said nothing. I gathered my personal belongings and left. I did not say anything further to any colleagues, and I didn't not damage or interact with any items in the store, or anything. I simply left and went home, as my shift was over.
I was fired for behavioral misconduct today, 2 weeks later.
I was never even asked my side of the story (of which, there isn't really much to tell, I picked up my things at the end of my shift and left without comment to anyone).
When I told the Regional, who had instructed us to "take a walk, or get some air if you're ever frustrated and angry", that I had done exactly as he had instructed, he mumbled, said he didn't care and it didn't matter because he had cause. I was done.
I know, and everyone else knows (within the store), that I was fired because my profit performance was not optimal. We have several targets to hit:
Profit Motive
I realize I'm not alone. This probably happens every day somewhere.
My real question is this.
Do I have any recourse?
I live in Canada
Can I get unemployment at least?
Has anyone gone through anything like this before?
Any words of encouragement?
Do I deserve this? Was my conduct THAT bad? I was trying to be the bigger person by not sinking to Sally's level. She has called me some of the most foul and mean names that I have ever been called in my life over the course of my employment there, but damn if she can't sweet talk a customer and make her profit dollar budget (but never any of the other ones, but that's okay I guess). She is the most cunning, backstabbing gossiper I have ever met. Part me of me respects her a great deal. She has balls of steel man. Whenever I would mention the name calling, poor treatment, and lack of teamwork to my manager, he would do nothing.
All in all, (and I'm sure you've come to this conclusion as well), that it is probably the most mentally and emotionally healthy thing that I no longer work there, and I realize this. I should probably let this go, and most likely will after time, but I feel like I've been wronged and want to at least explore any options I may have for recourse. My biggest worry is that everything is circumstantial and unsubstantiated because I don't have any audio, video or written proof of anything, and that I won't be able to get unemployment. I am eager to start working again, and happy that I can just excise this massive tumor of stress that has filled my life.
I am bitter, but it feels so very nice to write this all out.
Thanks for reading, and thank you for any advice or encouragement you may have.
I work(ed) commission retail. The mattress industry. For clarity.
The incident in question happened several weeks ago.
There was a commission dispute which was resolved correctly and successfully.
I'll try to make this uncomplicated if I can:
We work on a turn system.
Any person that comes into the store and asks about any related product, whether we carry it or not, is a "turn" or a "up". When you deal with customer service/warranty issues, that is not an "up".
Co-worker "Sally" was dealing with a customer service issue for quite some time, and as customers came and went, it came upon her turn. But she was not finished.
In these incidents, you are supposed to pass off your customer service issue to a co worker who just had their turn, and take your "up".
Sally did not do this however, and asked me to greet the customer (her "up") and introduce them to our products and such to get a feel for what they are looking for. I was not the person that had their turn before her, but that person (the manger interestingly enough) did not want to do so, so I did, introducing the customers to products that fell into the needs they had described.
Now normally, when you are in a situation where you just cannot get away from a customer service or warranty issue, you "split" the up that you are covering and give half the sale of YOUR next "up" to that person in order to remain as even as possible. I have never been a fan of this system as it is extremely exploitable and I believe this is what happened to me.
If you check my post history, I believe I made a thread before, regarding this same person if you wish to read about previous situations.
Quick scenario if you're still confused:
Person A is up. Person B has a warranty issue they are dealing with. Person A has their up and goes to the back of the line. Person B is up, but not done working with the warranty issue customers. Another customer comes in. Person A, if able, takes over for Person B with the warranty folks so Person B can have their opportunity. If you cannot. Person A greets and sells the customer, splitting that commission between person A and B, and the next customer that comes in for Person A, will also be split between person A and B for fairness and the rotation goes back to the beginning. In an ideal world this works. In practice, it never does. I believe that this ruling is extremely exploitable.
You see, The customer that I was dealing with was looking for an inexpensive product. Price was the only issue and they needed cheap. When Sally heard this, I posit that she decided to enact the "Split protocol" because she could not pass off the customer service situation (now at the most optimal time to do so, when you are at the computer typing in the changes, as was this specific situation) and "socialize" the "poor quality" of the "up" to me in hopes that I would have more luck with a better opportunity. Since the store was full, and there is literally no way to disagree, or deny the split, I went along with it without comment or complaint, because I was trying to be a professional.
Such a case happened and I managed to sell my next opportunity. It was pretty big. I worked hard, and talked the HELL out of the product. I was essentially selling a ketchup popsicle to a woman in white gloves (Tommyboy). I made about 400 dollars on the deal. The "Up" that I had covered for her didn't buy anything, and neither of us made a dime on that.
I was excited and accidentally wrote only my name on the order, meaning only I would get commission. You can alter orders at any time before (and after via accounting department) delivery to the customer to include or split commissions among people. Before I was even done speaking with my customer, Sally began calling me a "fucking thief" and claimed "He's ripping me off again" to my co-workers (I have never ripped her off before, and have no clue where the basis of this comment is rooted). I overheard this. when I returned the counter, the manager approached and asked if I was supposed to split that with Sally. After a moment of thought, I had realized my mistake (as Sally had looked IMMEDIATELY at the commission report for the day), admitted it openly, and changed the order without a word. To this very DAY, that order still has not gone out, and is perfectly editable RIGHT NOW. You have to understand that this happens, and these situations are resolvable post-sale because they happen frequently. Commission based work is difficult to make fair for everyone. The company I worked for had a system that surely made the best attempt possible, but there are literally hundreds of possible grey areas. Too many conceivable situations can happen that completely change the applicability of some rules. Or some situations described as part of the rule system does not accurately represent the situation.
I was angry however at Sally's words. They were uncalled for. I had made a mistake which I rectified without negative comment and admitted as much. It would have literally been impossible for me to write my own name on the order, and not Sally's and get away with it. 0.0000000%~ chance of that happening. Anyone in the store can check the daily commission report at any time. She had realized and start insulting me BEFORE THE CUSTOMER EVEN LEFT THE STORE. The manager said to me that if I had any issues, I could stay and discuss them with him.
I said nothing. I gathered my personal belongings and left. I did not say anything further to any colleagues, and I didn't not damage or interact with any items in the store, or anything. I simply left and went home, as my shift was over.
I was fired for behavioral misconduct today, 2 weeks later.
I was never even asked my side of the story (of which, there isn't really much to tell, I picked up my things at the end of my shift and left without comment to anyone).
When I told the Regional, who had instructed us to "take a walk, or get some air if you're ever frustrated and angry", that I had done exactly as he had instructed, he mumbled, said he didn't care and it didn't matter because he had cause. I was done.
I know, and everyone else knows (within the store), that I was fired because my profit performance was not optimal. We have several targets to hit:
Profit Motive
Profit Dollars - There is a formula, but it is usually expected that you improve the sales over the same month last year by about 10%. June 2010 target = June 2009 profits +10%. I am terribad at achieving this, and usually end up between 85-98% of target.
We are in a recession. This is incredibly difficult to do, and is the only target I fail. We also increased our daily store staff from 4 people, to 5. In a fucking recession. They are setting us up to fail this on purpose.
The reasoning is exactly because the company will have less bonuses to pay out, saving more money but still maintaining a relatively level total profit over time. Area Sales Managers have admitted this readily in times of drunkiness. They have also admitted that given the chance, they would not hire anymore females because they are usually the cause of any issues within the company. It's an old boys club (and they're like 30-50) full of terribly misogynist middle aged men, and I don't fit in.
Accessories - 10% of your total gross dollar value in accessories.
Warranty - An extra warranty on mattresses - 2.1% of your gross profit dollars should derive from this. I am often at 3% or higher. I was at 4.3% for the month of September.
Pillows - 6% of your gross should derive from these. I am typically around 5.5 - 7%. For september I was at 9.6%.
4 targets. Of which, I almost always hit 3. They are the less important 3, but never the less, I am not a horrible salesperson. I get compliments from customers. I give people who need a good deal, a good deal because everyone needs to sleep well. I am a good hearted person and I work hard. I never steal from colleagues because I want to lead by example and I just hope every day that they do the same. Doesn't work out that way sometimes. I think I have been treated extremely unfairly. Just because I can't get the profit dollars that they want.
We are in a recession. This is incredibly difficult to do, and is the only target I fail. We also increased our daily store staff from 4 people, to 5. In a fucking recession. They are setting us up to fail this on purpose.
The reasoning is exactly because the company will have less bonuses to pay out, saving more money but still maintaining a relatively level total profit over time. Area Sales Managers have admitted this readily in times of drunkiness. They have also admitted that given the chance, they would not hire anymore females because they are usually the cause of any issues within the company. It's an old boys club (and they're like 30-50) full of terribly misogynist middle aged men, and I don't fit in.
Accessories - 10% of your total gross dollar value in accessories.
Warranty - An extra warranty on mattresses - 2.1% of your gross profit dollars should derive from this. I am often at 3% or higher. I was at 4.3% for the month of September.
Pillows - 6% of your gross should derive from these. I am typically around 5.5 - 7%. For september I was at 9.6%.
4 targets. Of which, I almost always hit 3. They are the less important 3, but never the less, I am not a horrible salesperson. I get compliments from customers. I give people who need a good deal, a good deal because everyone needs to sleep well. I am a good hearted person and I work hard. I never steal from colleagues because I want to lead by example and I just hope every day that they do the same. Doesn't work out that way sometimes. I think I have been treated extremely unfairly. Just because I can't get the profit dollars that they want.
I realize I'm not alone. This probably happens every day somewhere.
My real question is this.
Do I have any recourse?
I live in Canada
Can I get unemployment at least?
Has anyone gone through anything like this before?
Any words of encouragement?
Do I deserve this? Was my conduct THAT bad? I was trying to be the bigger person by not sinking to Sally's level. She has called me some of the most foul and mean names that I have ever been called in my life over the course of my employment there, but damn if she can't sweet talk a customer and make her profit dollar budget (but never any of the other ones, but that's okay I guess). She is the most cunning, backstabbing gossiper I have ever met. Part me of me respects her a great deal. She has balls of steel man. Whenever I would mention the name calling, poor treatment, and lack of teamwork to my manager, he would do nothing.
All in all, (and I'm sure you've come to this conclusion as well), that it is probably the most mentally and emotionally healthy thing that I no longer work there, and I realize this. I should probably let this go, and most likely will after time, but I feel like I've been wronged and want to at least explore any options I may have for recourse. My biggest worry is that everything is circumstantial and unsubstantiated because I don't have any audio, video or written proof of anything, and that I won't be able to get unemployment. I am eager to start working again, and happy that I can just excise this massive tumor of stress that has filled my life.
I am bitter, but it feels so very nice to write this all out.
Thanks for reading, and thank you for any advice or encouragement you may have.
Frust on
0
Posts
Every time you had some sort of negative interaction with her, you should have reported it to your superiors. Create a paper trail.
As for unemployment, who knows? You can try.
Yes, I had explained that I had forgotten, and admitted my mistake.
I also realize that not reporting things to the correct superiors was my biggest mistake. I would tell my manager everything, but he did nothing. He asked me to write up a big email about all the things that concerned me, and he did not act upon them at all after I had done so.
I have been disciplined before though yes.
In the afternoon during the summer, I was suffering from a migraine from the reflection of the sun through our store window off of cars (I have been told by my optometrist that some sort of retinal defect can cause me to experience migraines in bright light and that I should wear sunglasses whenever I'm outside. I have also told my manager about this, and even suggested tinting since it affects everyone, just me more than others) and after a particularly hard day where I hadn't made any money, and the day was winding down, I took off my name tag and tossed it again a brand new mattress in it's factory sealed bag. Not hard like you'd throw a baseball trying to strike someone out, but a dejected tossing, like you are giving up, and you're tired. I believe I may have muttered "fuck" in a normal volume. There were no other customers.
I should mention that the manager is quite the sailor as far as swearing goes. I've learned more curse words in the last 5 months, than the previous 10 years. To give an idea of the "norm" for conversation in our group.
I did not damage anything, and my manager didn't even know I had done anything until he asked me what was wrong and what happened. I told him.
I asked him if I could go home because I had a migraine from the reflection, and he said yes.
I was written up several days later for leaving the jobsite even though I had obtained permission from my manager and had a valid medical complaint (that the regional manager actually dismissed because he simply did not believe me during my debrief)
edit: the discipline includes disrepecting manager and damage to company property but elaborates in no way whatsoever.
I asked for the managers permission. I said "fuck" to myself. The manager wasn't even CLOSE to me. he wasn't even in the building! he was outside smoking, and noticed that I was upset when he returned.
There was no damage to the mattress at all. It was sealed. The tag weighs... I dunno...less than 1/10th of a pound. What does a nametag ever weigh? Throwing it as hard as I could would do nothing, but I swear on my mothers life that I did not do that. It was a dejected toss of defeat and bitter surrender.
My actions might seem damning without context and without having been there, I am not perfect, and I am sometimes immature, and yes I occasionally don't handle things that happen the most graceful way possible, but god damnit I try, and because I keep everything inside and don't complain and report things that happen to me, I have fucked myself, and carry all the stress for it anyway.
It would be impossible for me to accurately detail any given situation in full. I'd be writing forever, and no one would read it. No one is reading this. :P
I tried to be professional as much as I possible could, but I'll be the first to admit I had moments of weakness. Everyone does. I guess I just didn't handle mine as well as I should have, and should take this as a lesson?
I mean I feel like the things I have done have been blown way out of proportion and passed off as the way they have happened, and that makes me so incredibly angry. I do not lash out when the accusations are made, but how can I defend myself besides denying that I did those things? There is no way to prove that I didn't do SOME form of what the accusation pertains to, so it stands to reason that their inflated version could be true, and thus, is true through possibility. Isn't that some kind of strawman?
I try to defend myself with rationality in an environment filled to the brim with egotistical cheats and liars, who express themselves through angry fits and bitter words. I have never met a vulgar verbal insult or attack made toward me to provoke an equal response the way the person has intended. I don't work that way. It makes me laugh when people do it obviously, which tends to piss people off I'll admit. I seem like a smug asshole sometimes, thus making it true in effect, but I try to minimize that as much as possible because it's not who I am as a person, it's who I become as a defense mechanism.
When I make a mistake, fuck up, behave wrong and someone confronts me in the right, I have always strived to admit my errors, and take the consequences, but I really don't think the wind I've sown is the whirlwind I deserve to reap.
Everyone remembers the bad things you do, it takes a lot to make people remember the good things.
I'm going to say this in the nicest way possible, but sometimes life just isn't fair. Shitty things happen. Pick yourself up, learn from your mistakes, and keep on moving.
I'd say if anything this is a chance to get a less shitty job. I've been "fired" (reduced to no hours) for a bullshit thing just so the manager could hire on his friend, and yeah I was pissed and it stung at the time, things ended up working out much better in the long run and I'm glad it happened. I would say in this situation, just getting a job that doesn't suck would be working out.
Just keep your chin up, learn from your mistakes in this case, and move on.
You may find another shop that treats your fairly and where everyone gets along, but in my limited experience you'd be better off looking in another field.
That said, make sure that you get the commission you are due for that last item. Without a paper trail the chances of getting your job back or some kind of compensation is very low to nil. The only way I could see you not getting unemployment (in the US) is if your workplace challenged it, in which case you would defiantly want to fight that (I doubt they would though, it is more trouble for them then it is work most likely).
Good luck finding another job, if you do like the competitive commission sales and are good at it you should certainly not give it up. But protect yourself, paperwork is like the condom of employment.
He's not getting that last commission if that's what got him fired. Basically they're accusing him of stealing.
Steam: CavilatRest
No, I will get any commissions owed, and I was not fired for stealing.
I was fired "with cause".
The official letter does not specify further. The regional himself did not specify further.
I wasn't accused of stealing by management, just the other salesperson.
I haven't stolen anything.
I was fired because I "didn't handle the situation correctly."
Verbatim from the Regional.
The letter itself is extremely vague. It is worded this way so that it can be interpreted openly later, if required.
Read that out load to yourself. Was this really that great of a job? Pick yourself up and look for something else.
As far as I know, the worst they can do is say "no." And I doubt that that's going to happen in this situation.