but I like being able to stay for a long time without b-ing back.
If I played with better people I'd probably find something else but Ive had too many bad experiences going back and having my lane partner get themselves killed because they decided that it was a good idea to initiate a 1v2, and then the tower is half dead once I return. People seem to think having Sona in their lane makes them invincible, it pisses me off sometimes.
Psycho Internet Hawk on
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratorMod Emeritus
but I like being able to stay for a long time without b-ing back.
If I played with better people I'd probably find something else but Ive had too many bad experiences going back and having my lane partner get themselves killed because they decided that it was a good idea to initiate a 1v2, and then the tower is half dead once I return. People seem to think having Sona in their lane makes them invincible, it pisses me off sometimes.
Having Sona *In* their lane pretty much does. But once you leave, they are idiots for not hugging their tower until you get back.
Delphinidaes on
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I decided to take Clarity as Pantheon once and took out my mp5/lvl seals and glyphs. It actually was pretty useful, since Panth is the most manaholic champ I've ever used, and getting any kind of mana item on him is really a waste. Yes, even manamune.
Eddy on
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
I like Rod of Ages + Soul Shroud on Sona. Health + Mana + AP + CDR and auras are all good. Haven't tried locket yet, but it doesn't sound like a terrible idea.
Also Sona shouldn't be getting ganked because Sona should always be buying Wards and casting Clairvoyance constantly because she doesn't need that many items to be effective and can run away at the first sign of trouble.
Never engage alone.
Also you're wrong about Clarity. If you spec it you can give your entire team a full mana bar after a tough team fight and continue pushing towers forever. I don't really use it for myself after I get a couple mana items, but I pop it constantly to refresh my carries and keep them killing.
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Dac VinS-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC!Registered Userregular
would itemization for a morgana support build be similar to a sona build?
like locket, boots, rylai's or something?
i assume that morgana will need some survivability to do her job
Boots obviously, but no to locket and rylai's - Morg can't spam her abilities enough to use Locket effectively like Sona, and Rylai is wasted due to the slow being noticeable on only one ability of hers (Tormented Soil). Rod of Ages is a must have on Morgana (HP and Mana and AP and it grows over time), same thing for Zhonya's Ring (AP bonus and invulnerability active). If you're careful these two items will be all the survivability you need.
Speaking of which, I might try to go Catalyst -> Boots -> Kage's -> RoA next time I go morg, just to see if the bonuses being more front loaded means I can get it a bit later than usual.
my sona build is tear of the goddess, shoes, mejai's, finish the archangels, then get whatever people want me to get (starks, aegis, will of the ancients, soul shroud etc)
my sona build is tear of the goddess, shoes, mejai's, finish the archangels, then get whatever people want me to get (starks, aegis, will of the ancients, soul shroud etc)
works pretty well for me
Yeah I always get Mejai's as well after tear. I don't always get lots of stacks quick, but by late game I usually have a good number thanks to assists for everything I do.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Having just tested it, I can confirm that the three tear items do not stack. You only get 1000 extra mana, period.
I highlighted the important part of this statement that will hold true for any team where you aren't queued with 4 other people. even then, though, it can still hold true.
I don't like Archangel's on Sona because I'm going to be taking Clarity anyway for early game, and locket will help keep my mana going anyway. The AP boost is nice, but essentially that's all I'm getting from it because I don't need the mana by the time it really gets strong. I'd rather get a deathfire for quick AP/CDR/Damage or something.
I don't like clarity as much as clairvoyance. You don't really see that much benefit from clarity early game, and it's totally useless late game. But Sona uses CV all damn game; since she's fast enough to go wherever the hell she wants, it's so great to be able to figure out whether the next bush pile you need to cut through to get to a teammate is actually full of Garens.
Edit: I can't remember who it was that told me to start with, it was a PA person though.... Tear of the goddess is not a good first buy for Sona. Innervating locket is the one and only true starting item for her. She is not a complete character without it.
Why is Rylai's a recommended item on Lux? Just for the AP and health? That slow is used on only her aoe slow and her laserbeam, possibly the second victim of light binding. It just doesn't seem like the most synergistic choice.
Archangel's instead of locket is okay I guess if you have a competent tanky lane partner who can keep the enemy back and just want to go super-kill-Sona. I just wouldn't do both. A lot of people recommend it for some reason, but I've done it before and it's literally impossible for my mana pool to dip below 2/3 because I recharge so fast. Which is nice, but kind of pointless and my gold is better spent elsewhere.
Soul shroud's alright, I'd rather have the mana/hp regen from the locket personally but the CDR's useful. It's a matter of choice. I tend towards glacial shroud later on for CDR/survival because it's stupidly useful for the money.
A Nidalee that can throw her spear's well is insanely useful.
Seeing an enemy Kog's health go from full to about 40%-50% in one throw is one of the greatest thing ever.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
OLLIE
No apostrophes in plurals bro!
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Argh, too many Sona posts to respond to.
1) Sona's ratios are not all that spectacular. Additionally, she has one spell that doesn't benefit from AP, one spell that will always heal herself no matter if she needs it or not (and if she has a Locket, she probably doesn't need it that badly), one spell for damage that can't even be targeted (and I think the smart targeting on it is broken this patch anyway), and her ult.
2) You don't need to rush the Locket provided you have wards up to see when jerks are coming to hard CC you.
3) If you don't get 1 defensive/cdr item on top of the Locket (Glacial Shroud or Spirit Visage is my preference, depending on enemy damage, but if I can get away with Spirit Visage I'll pick that all else equal), you are still squishy enough to get blown up if looked at. That said, go Meki->Tear of the Goddess straight off. Her patch heal and counter harass should be enough to keep her undiveable until mid-game. She is very, very hard to harass and even close with during laning for most champions because of her great ranges and natural move speed. It's only once team fights start that she's liable to get blown up for being out of position. When laning ends, there's a pretty good chance I still had at least one of my original potions leftover.
4) Don't take Clarity unless you are laning with someone who has a total hard on for spamming and even then fuck them. Take Clairvoyance if you want to be annoying support, Flash if you want to be more aggressive and as a better overall tool. Second spell should probably be Teleport for ideal purchasing times (since you want your items as soon as you get the cash) and later on for quick assisting if you have deep wards placed.
5) So, why AD Sona? I've made my thoughts on her AP values clear enough. Playstyle wise, she has a great autoattack range and good movement, so she can be where she needs to be around the battle. Making her damage source AD means that she can twist whatever auras her party needs at the time while not needing to be concerned as much that she's missing out on Songs of Valor due to placement or what have you. It's also more unexpected on Sona, so when people are trying to figure out why their face is getting melted, they're not looking at you.
A Nidalee that can throw her spear's well is insanely useful.
Seeing an enemy Kog's health go from full to about 40%-50% in one throw is one of the greatest thing ever.
I played against a Nidalee that was incredibly good at throwing her spears from brush and through walls, using her team mates and sometimes clairvoyance to get line of sight on us.
It was very hard to respond to some of the spears and it was very effective.
any time i am poppy i make a point to always target sona
always always
she is usually a really easy nerd to drop and diplomatic immunitying her means i am taking almost no damage
also i don't want to hear her stupid songs over and over
One time, a Poppy tried to dive me as I was retreating behind the 2nd turret and followed past the inhib turret when I had only a couple hundred HP left. Her immunity ran out because of a somewhat longish run and so I Crescendo'd her in the face inside inhib turret range right as she charged me and ended up killing her with <50HP left.
1) Sona's ratios are not all that spectacular. Additionally, she has one spell that doesn't benefit from AP, one spell that will always heal herself no matter if she needs it or not (and if she has a Locket, she probably doesn't need it that badly), one spell for damage that can't even be targeted (and I think the smart targeting on it is broken this patch anyway), and her ult.
2) You don't need to rush the Locket provided you have wards up to see when jerks are coming to hard CC you.
3) If you don't get 1 defensive/cdr item on top of the Locket (Glacial Shroud or Spirit Visage is my preference, depending on enemy damage, but if I can get away with Spirit Visage I'll pick that all else equal), you are still squishy enough to get blown up if looked at. That said, go Meki->Tear of the Goddess straight off. Her patch heal and counter harass should be enough to keep her undiveable until mid-game. She is very, very hard to harass and even close with during laning for most champions because of her great ranges and natural move speed. It's only once team fights start that she's liable to get blown up for being out of position. When laning ends, there's a pretty good chance I still had at least one of my original potions leftover.
4) Don't take Clarity unless you are laning with someone who has a total hard on for spamming and even then fuck them. Take Clairvoyance if you want to be annoying support, Flash if you want to be more aggressive and as a better overall tool. Second spell should probably be Teleport for ideal purchasing times (since you want your items as soon as you get the cash) and later on for quick assisting if you have deep wards placed.
5) So, why AD Sona? I've made my thoughts on her AP values clear enough. Playstyle wise, she has a great autoattack range and good movement, so she can be where she needs to be around the battle. Making her damage source AD means that she can twist whatever auras her party needs at the time while not needing to be concerned as much that she's missing out on Songs of Valor due to placement or what have you. It's also more unexpected on Sona, so when people are trying to figure out why their face is getting melted, they're not looking at you.
I support this. To each his own with playstyle, but AP Sona to me just seems boring, and CDR/AD Sona is really fun. I usually go Tear of the Goddess, Glacial Shroud, Sheen, finish Manamune, grab something else for CDR to max it. I might try working in the new Malady sometime, see how that works out.
With how spammable her spells are you have Sheen up whenever you want. Add the power chord and you can get some pretty mean burst for a support, plus with the CDR you can still support really well. She's mainly about the auras, and not the actives, so AP doesn't help a whole lot. Plus having that ult up every 36 seconds or so is amazing for team fights late game.
Whether or not you need defensive items on casters and support depends a lot on the game. If you're dominating the other team, then you probably don't need them. If its pretty even, then at least one defensive item (chain mail and negatron cloak are only 700 gold each) that is effective against their carry or the majority of their damage is probably a good idea. If you're getting dominated, you're pretty screwed either way.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
1) Sona's ratios are not all that spectacular. Additionally, she has one spell that doesn't benefit from AP, one spell that will always heal herself no matter if she needs it or not (and if she has a Locket, she probably doesn't need it that badly), one spell for damage that can't even be targeted (and I think the smart targeting on it is broken this patch anyway), and her ult.
2) You don't need to rush the Locket provided you have wards up to see when jerks are coming to hard CC you.
3) If you don't get 1 defensive/cdr item on top of the Locket (Glacial Shroud or Spirit Visage is my preference, depending on enemy damage, but if I can get away with Spirit Visage I'll pick that all else equal), you are still squishy enough to get blown up if looked at. That said, go Meki->Tear of the Goddess straight off. Her patch heal and counter harass should be enough to keep her undiveable until mid-game. She is very, very hard to harass and even close with during laning for most champions because of her great ranges and natural move speed. It's only once team fights start that she's liable to get blown up for being out of position. When laning ends, there's a pretty good chance I still had at least one of my original potions leftover.
4) Don't take Clarity unless you are laning with someone who has a total hard on for spamming and even then fuck them. Take Clairvoyance if you want to be annoying support, Flash if you want to be more aggressive and as a better overall tool. Second spell should probably be Teleport for ideal purchasing times (since you want your items as soon as you get the cash) and later on for quick assisting if you have deep wards placed.
5) So, why AD Sona? I've made my thoughts on her AP values clear enough. Playstyle wise, she has a great autoattack range and good movement, so she can be where she needs to be around the battle. Making her damage source AD means that she can twist whatever auras her party needs at the time while not needing to be concerned as much that she's missing out on Songs of Valor due to placement or what have you. It's also more unexpected on Sona, so when people are trying to figure out why their face is getting melted, they're not looking at you.
I support this. To each his own with playstyle, but AP Sona to me just seems boring, and CDR/AD Sona is really fun. I usually go Tear of the Goddess, Glacial Shroud, Sheen, finish Manamune, grab something else for CDR to max it. I might try working in the new Malady sometime, see how that works out.
With how spammable her spells are you have Sheen up whenever you want. Add the power chord and you can get some pretty mean burst for a support, plus with the CDR you can still support really well. She's mainly about the auras, and not the actives, so AP doesn't help a whole lot. Plus having that ult up every 36 seconds or so is amazing for team fights late game.
I did some rough math of it and Triforce is equal damage for her as Infinity Edge on the build I use. However, that assumes a constant usage of Triforce's buff. If you can't do that (out of position, somehow out of mana, etc), IE is a more consistent choice and usually what I get.
I like to go something like...
Meki+2HP
Tear
Boots1 (try to stay in lane long enough for this, might not always be possible)
Catalyst
Boots3
Manamune
Locket
Spirit Visage/Glacial Shroud (maxes CDR here)
Recurve
BF Sword
[strike]Wit's End typically[/strike] edit: Last Whisper usually these days
Infinity Edge
A Nidalee that can throw her spear's well is insanely useful.
Seeing an enemy Kog's health go from full to about 40%-50% in one throw is one of the greatest thing ever.
I played against a Nidalee that was incredibly good at throwing her spears from brush and through walls, using her team mates and sometimes clairvoyance to get line of sight on us.
It was very hard to respond to some of the spears and it was very effective.
This is something I do all the time.
Getting a kill on a wounded person that's teleporting back and not paying attention is the best.
Spectrum I will have to give that build a try later.
Malady could be a fun addition, especially because if I'm periodically shooting my Q as I auto they'll have no idea where the damage is coming from and I might as well get that extra damage.
Psycho Internet Hawk on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Spectrum I will have to give that build a try later.
Malady could be a fun addition, especially because if I'm periodically shooting my Q as I auto they'll have no idea where the damage is coming from and I might as well get that extra damage.
Made a slight edit to show where I finish Boots of Swiftness, btw.
I wouldn't take Malady on her with that build, as it's a hybrid item. If you wanted to hybrid her, you could, but you'd have to go something like Nashor's/Gunblade/Malady as her DPS items instead of Manamune and items that build off BF Swords and Recurves.
If I was doing that, I'd try Catalyst first and early Sheen, Stinger, Gunblade, finish Triforce, finish Nashor's. Something like that.
any time i am poppy i make a point to always target sona
always always
she is usually a really easy nerd to drop and diplomatic immunitying her means i am taking almost no damage
also i don't want to hear her stupid songs over and over
Ditto, after awhile I start to feel bad but keep doing it anyways. I also enjoy that after awhile of doing this, Sona immediately starts running when I appear and I start chasing her, and as im chasing her 2 of her teammates pull off to try to stop me even though thats not possible causing the entire team fight to end in our favor. Oh and after Sona dies I turn around and kill one of the ones following anyways
any time i am poppy i make a point to always target sona
always always
she is usually a really easy nerd to drop and diplomatic immunitying her means i am taking almost no damage
also i don't want to hear her stupid songs over and over
One time, a Poppy tried to dive me as I was retreating behind the 2nd turret and followed past the inhib turret when I had only a couple hundred HP left. Her immunity ran out because of a somewhat longish run and so I Crescendo'd her in the face inside inhib turret range right as she charged me and ended up killing her with <50HP left.
Man, don't you just hate it when they revoke your diplomatic immunity? :winky:
Delphinidaes on
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
with sona I'm typically never standing still long enough to autoattack, but that's just my playstyle.
Posts
And I think it was puppies, or choco
like locket, boots, rylai's or something?
i assume that morgana will need some survivability to do her job
damn it Zen
I knowwww
but I like being able to stay for a long time without b-ing back.
If I played with better people I'd probably find something else but Ive had too many bad experiences going back and having my lane partner get themselves killed because they decided that it was a good idea to initiate a 1v2, and then the tower is half dead once I return. People seem to think having Sona in their lane makes them invincible, it pisses me off sometimes.
i love clarity
then again i don't really play in a way that the flash/ ignite/ exhaust gank train will be much use to me
and it's nice to be able to keep me and my laning partner in the lane indefinitely
Having Sona *In* their lane pretty much does. But once you leave, they are idiots for not hugging their tower until you get back.
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Also Sona shouldn't be getting ganked because Sona should always be buying Wards and casting Clairvoyance constantly because she doesn't need that many items to be effective and can run away at the first sign of trouble.
Never engage alone.
Also you're wrong about Clarity. If you spec it you can give your entire team a full mana bar after a tough team fight and continue pushing towers forever. I don't really use it for myself after I get a couple mana items, but I pop it constantly to refresh my carries and keep them killing.
Boots obviously, but no to locket and rylai's - Morg can't spam her abilities enough to use Locket effectively like Sona, and Rylai is wasted due to the slow being noticeable on only one ability of hers (Tormented Soil). Rod of Ages is a must have on Morgana (HP and Mana and AP and it grows over time), same thing for Zhonya's Ring (AP bonus and invulnerability active). If you're careful these two items will be all the survivability you need.
Speaking of which, I might try to go Catalyst -> Boots -> Kage's -> RoA next time I go morg, just to see if the bonuses being more front loaded means I can get it a bit later than usual.
works pretty well for me
Yeah I always get Mejai's as well after tear. I don't always get lots of stacks quick, but by late game I usually have a good number thanks to assists for everything I do.
I highlighted the important part of this statement that will hold true for any team where you aren't queued with 4 other people. even then, though, it can still hold true.
I don't like clarity as much as clairvoyance. You don't really see that much benefit from clarity early game, and it's totally useless late game. But Sona uses CV all damn game; since she's fast enough to go wherever the hell she wants, it's so great to be able to figure out whether the next bush pile you need to cut through to get to a teammate is actually full of Garens.
Edit: I can't remember who it was that told me to start with, it was a PA person though.... Tear of the goddess is not a good first buy for Sona. Innervating locket is the one and only true starting item for her. She is not a complete character without it.
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Soul shroud's alright, I'd rather have the mana/hp regen from the locket personally but the CDR's useful. It's a matter of choice. I tend towards glacial shroud later on for CDR/survival because it's stupidly useful for the money.
Seeing an enemy Kog's health go from full to about 40%-50% in one throw is one of the greatest thing ever.
No apostrophes in plurals bro!
1) Sona's ratios are not all that spectacular. Additionally, she has one spell that doesn't benefit from AP, one spell that will always heal herself no matter if she needs it or not (and if she has a Locket, she probably doesn't need it that badly), one spell for damage that can't even be targeted (and I think the smart targeting on it is broken this patch anyway), and her ult.
2) You don't need to rush the Locket provided you have wards up to see when jerks are coming to hard CC you.
3) If you don't get 1 defensive/cdr item on top of the Locket (Glacial Shroud or Spirit Visage is my preference, depending on enemy damage, but if I can get away with Spirit Visage I'll pick that all else equal), you are still squishy enough to get blown up if looked at. That said, go Meki->Tear of the Goddess straight off. Her patch heal and counter harass should be enough to keep her undiveable until mid-game. She is very, very hard to harass and even close with during laning for most champions because of her great ranges and natural move speed. It's only once team fights start that she's liable to get blown up for being out of position. When laning ends, there's a pretty good chance I still had at least one of my original potions leftover.
4) Don't take Clarity unless you are laning with someone who has a total hard on for spamming and even then fuck them. Take Clairvoyance if you want to be annoying support, Flash if you want to be more aggressive and as a better overall tool. Second spell should probably be Teleport for ideal purchasing times (since you want your items as soon as you get the cash) and later on for quick assisting if you have deep wards placed.
5) So, why AD Sona? I've made my thoughts on her AP values clear enough. Playstyle wise, she has a great autoattack range and good movement, so she can be where she needs to be around the battle. Making her damage source AD means that she can twist whatever auras her party needs at the time while not needing to be concerned as much that she's missing out on Songs of Valor due to placement or what have you. It's also more unexpected on Sona, so when people are trying to figure out why their face is getting melted, they're not looking at you.
I played against a Nidalee that was incredibly good at throwing her spears from brush and through walls, using her team mates and sometimes clairvoyance to get line of sight on us.
It was very hard to respond to some of the spears and it was very effective.
always always
she is usually a really easy nerd to drop and diplomatic immunitying her means i am taking almost no damage
also i don't want to hear her stupid songs over and over
I support this. To each his own with playstyle, but AP Sona to me just seems boring, and CDR/AD Sona is really fun. I usually go Tear of the Goddess, Glacial Shroud, Sheen, finish Manamune, grab something else for CDR to max it. I might try working in the new Malady sometime, see how that works out.
With how spammable her spells are you have Sheen up whenever you want. Add the power chord and you can get some pretty mean burst for a support, plus with the CDR you can still support really well. She's mainly about the auras, and not the actives, so AP doesn't help a whole lot. Plus having that ult up every 36 seconds or so is amazing for team fights late game.
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I like to go something like...
Meki+2HP
Tear
Boots1 (try to stay in lane long enough for this, might not always be possible)
Catalyst
Boots3
Manamune
Locket
Spirit Visage/Glacial Shroud (maxes CDR here)
Recurve
BF Sword
[strike]Wit's End typically[/strike] edit: Last Whisper usually these days
Infinity Edge
This is something I do all the time.
Getting a kill on a wounded person that's teleporting back and not paying attention is the best.
Malady could be a fun addition, especially because if I'm periodically shooting my Q as I auto they'll have no idea where the damage is coming from and I might as well get that extra damage.
I wouldn't take Malady on her with that build, as it's a hybrid item. If you wanted to hybrid her, you could, but you'd have to go something like Nashor's/Gunblade/Malady as her DPS items instead of Manamune and items that build off BF Swords and Recurves.
If I was doing that, I'd try Catalyst first and early Sheen, Stinger, Gunblade, finish Triforce, finish Nashor's. Something like that.
Ditto, after awhile I start to feel bad but keep doing it anyways. I also enjoy that after awhile of doing this, Sona immediately starts running when I appear and I start chasing her, and as im chasing her 2 of her teammates pull off to try to stop me even though thats not possible causing the entire team fight to end in our favor. Oh and after Sona dies I turn around and kill one of the ones following anyways
Man, don't you just hate it when they revoke your diplomatic immunity? :winky:
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For me AD is completely wasted.
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