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Massive student debt / options for work
Cptn Pants
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Registered User regular
So my Fiancée messed up, she missed a mid-term in Veterinary school (long story, I blame myself and don't want to get into it). When you flat out get a 0 in vet school you fail the semester just like that. She's already repeated once and this was her last chance... she might be able to appeal but that's a 50/50 chance and she's not sure she can mentally take re-doing the entire semester again... again.
So here's the situation, she's got over $300,000 in school loans and she's not able to complete the course and hence won't get a job making that sweet vet money. So, what to do? The loans are going to come due in 6 months and they are going to be a killer since she's not going to have a good job right away... or probably for awhile in reality.
Another question: what can you do with a BS in Animal Science?
So here's the situation, she's got over $300,000 in school loans and she's not able to complete the course and hence won't get a job making that sweet vet money. So, what to do? The loans are going to come due in 6 months and they are going to be a killer since she's not going to have a good job right away... or probably for awhile in reality.
Another question: what can you do with a BS in Animal Science?
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She should, don't know if it's an option yet, in order to repeat she needs to finish this semester out with passing grades in every other class and then file an appeal and then she might get another shot... might
I'm on damage control here: plan for the best, prepare for the worst.
Though damn, 300 k in debt? Going to guess those are private lenders? Not to many options with those.
Trust me on this, I'm living 3 credits shy of my B.Eng in Electronics Engineering and although they're mostly paid off now, I had $70k in student loan debt when I quit school because of the same situation.
Xbox Gamertag: GAMB1NO325Xi
Well, does she still want to be a vet in the end, if she can do it without going crazy? If so, how much more would it cost? How near is she to the end of the program? How much debt will she have by the time she gets out?
IF she still wants to be a vet and the debt load isn't too much more, she should go talk to the school. See if she can take a semester off without having to go through the BS of reapplying to the school . . . then jump back in, retake that semester, and power through it. Or see if she can appeal and retake the test or retake the one class (instead of the whole semester.) If those aren't an option then, yes, I think she should retake the entire semester immediately.
I'm not sure what vets typically make, but I suspect it makes more financial sense to become a vet (even if she ends up with more in loans) at this point. I mean, $300,000 in loans, she is going to need a high-paying job to get out of that.
Ignore the person saying she should be "ashamed." Nothing productive will come of that. She just needs a plan to kick ass in the future.
The debt total is for 4 years of out of state collage and 2 and a half years of out of the country Vet school. IF she can finish, at this point, the total debt will be probably closer to $400,000 due to the extra schooling.
How vet school works (St. Ross U): There are 7 semesters, you can fail twice before they kick you out. You cannot transfer credits, if you fail out and have to go to another school you start from square one. If you fail a class you fail the semester... you can NOT retake just the class you failed, you gotta do the whole shebang again. This will be her second fail of the same semester. Right now she's in 6th semester, so pretty close to the end of that school. After she gets out of Vet school she needs to do her residency which would be another year. So out of a 7 year course she's about 5 1/2-6 years through.
Vets can make up to $150,000k a year but generally average closer to $90,000.
As for her handling the re-do... not sure, she's pretty torn up and getting her to repeat the semester the first time was rough enough. She's in another country all by herself and it's hard... I honestly could not do it if I was her. Hell, I can't even pass school here in the States without all the added stress of being a world away from everyone and thing you love.
I can deal with the failure, I'm a survivor... I've been through some crazy shit in my short life but she's... more delicate. She's had friends fail out and go home, some are fine, others are devastated... a few... well they couldn't go on anymore... and I'm worried about this last part..... but that's for another thread, or real people to help us with.
Geez. I don't even know what to tell you. That's so much money, but on the other hand she's so close . . .
Is the problem with this particular semester related to the course material, or is the amount of homework overwhelming, or what? I think identifying the problem should be a priority if she does decide to do this semester over again.
Tuition for Ross University Medical School in 2010 was $16,140 for the basic sciences portion of the curriculum and $17,615 for the clinical sciences portion, not including living, travel and misc. expenses.
I'm really at a loss how you get to over 300k in loans in the first place, 7 semesters would be 125k.
I think maybe she needs to re-evaluate how she is spending her loans.
That all said, if they're student loans you can defer them. It's stupid to say it, but at this point she'll be in debt for the next 30 years anyway so fuck it, she may as well finish, what's another 40k?
I know she wanted to be a vet, but going out of country to a place owned by DeVry may not have been her best option. She's in it now though, and if she wants the responsibility of operating on and saving the lives of what some consider family members, she's going to have much tougher decisions ahead than this.
Weak doctors are bad doctors. I'm sure she understands that, and this will all work out.
edit: I note the Delicate comment and am a little worried.
edit2: Nearly all universities that do research hire folks to run the labs or assist with the research. Most also pay people to make sure the animals are treated in a humane way. The part I don't know about is the non-transferable credits. That sounds shady and would piss me off. You can try Big Pharma type jobs, or if she has the pre-reqs someplace like Genentech have great jobs for people who aren't Ph.D or Masters level degree holders. I know someone with a BS that does quite well there actually.
Please tell me that is a typo, cause that is an amazing sum of money. The only thing I can suggest for her is to find a damn good lawyer and pray.
I hate to sound a cold hearted bastard, but you may want consult a lawyer of your own in order to protect yourself from this debt; assuming you have further plans with his woman.
It sounds like she did four years of undergrad at an out-of-state university first, before proceding to vet school. OOS tuition at public schools can be crazy high. (I applied to an OOS public school that wanted me to take out $40,000 in loans a year. No thanks!)
She's decided to stay in school and try and finish since it's the only real option. I'm very proud of her for sticking this out. But, like I said she may not even be granted the appeal so I'm gonna keep planning for the worst here... just incase.
As for going out of the country, it wasn't really her choice... it was the school she got into. Vet school are notoriously hard to get into. The valedictorian of her graduating class at collage was wait-listed at most state side schools.
That's like go to medical school on the moon money
First thing she needs to get her ass in gear and pass the rest of her classes, then appeal to stay. If they boot her, absolutely look into bankruptcy because jegus that's a lot of money to owe even with a moderately high paying degree
And honestly where did that go? Four years at $40k plus two at $20k is still a shitton of money at 200k, but where did that other 100k come from?
She's in the Caribbean, so you got to take into account things like air fair which is about $900 round trip each semester, her rent is about $1,000 a month, and car with insurance. Also books and other miscellaneous supplies which are un-godly expensive, at least $2,000 a semester in vet school. Living out of the country adds up fast!
So the math is this:
Air fair: $6,300
Rent: $30,000
Car insurance: $2,500
Book&misc: $14,000
Total: $52,800 not counting food or other stuff.
This is exactly what I meant. Because this is how I feel.
Xbox Gamertag: GAMB1NO325Xi
Jesus weeping christ, that is absurd
I'm not going to be mean, but my parents would have live birthed chickens if I had even suggested my schooling would cost that much without tuition assistance
But is this school legit? You see a lot of the no transfer, no repeats, tons of money bs from schools that are for profit, and quite frankly, a scam. Is she actually going to be able to get a Vet job in the states with a degree from that place? A lot of those places count on you never looking into their validity.
I understand, I actually said the same thing... and yeah it's legit. The vet I take my dog to went there, and so did her boss.
Dude, I hope you get a prenup.
Slightly Thread Relevant- Don't blame whatever happened on yourself. It is her coursework and it is her job to take care of it -no matter what-, especially when she knew it was so critical.
Thread Irrelevant- I agree with the sentiments about considering your financial position before assuming someone elses debts. It is a serious issue and should not be glossed over because you're in love and excited about tying the knot. I know you weren't looking for advice on this, but seriously.
Well, as the boyfriend of a vet, I'd say she should appeal as far as she can go. If there were circumstances beyond her control they might be forgiving (maybe not though, as my GF broke her ankle basically off her leg at school and still couldn't miss any time without failing - she missed a half day).
Also, there's really no such thing as sweet vet money. It's a profession that costs a ton of money to get into, but doesn't pay nearly as well as people think or as well as virtually any other professional degree. You get screwed by a lot of customers, especially in this economy, and it's tough to make it on your own, even after a few years of practice (which is where the real money is).
Regarding the loans, you can get deferrals. You can also get on a low income program to pay them back. I would look into those regardless of whether or not she gets back in.
Vet school is stressful, and her not wanting to deal with it anymore is normal. But, she should tough it out if that's what she wants to do with her life.
Regarding what to do with her BS. There are a number of food safety/public health/government jobs that degree can apply to. She could also try becoming a vet tech. They make significantly less money though.
Vet schools and medical schools look at that very differently, because you're dealing with life or death. If you fail out of your MBA program they'll let you back, but if you fail out of vet or med school they will look at it as keeping an unqualified person out of their important profession.
Glad to hear she's going to try. Again, vet school is hard. But, facing those loans and not doing what you want to do is more than enough reason to go back.
Ross and St. George's are legitimate, but they're generally inferior and where you go if you can't get into a school in the U.S. There aren't a lot of vet schools in the U.S. and they carefully select their students. You have to be pretty damn smart and good to get in.
I know, but per google, they are sometimes. (link) You have to show that it's causing "undue hardship".
In my opinion, it's worth trying. Either that, or flee the country.
Well the Dean said she could apply for an appeal and it should work in her favor, however he can't say it will 100%.
It was my fault despite what you, and she, tells me. She asked me to wake her up, and I feel sleep and didn't wake her... she missed the exam because I didn't wake her. She can't rely on the alarm clock because of the "load shedding" the local power plant does at night often resets her alarm clock.
And yeah, don't worry about that last part, we are in love but we aren't stupid... the pre-nup was her idea. As for them coming after my income, let them try to come after my meager wages... they'll have to hold me upside down and shake me to get anything from me since I just don't have it to give.
***status update***
She's at school right now and talking with the Dean, the teacher and the counselor to figure out options. I told her to mention the load shedding is causing the power to go out, but I'm not sure it's gonna matter. I'm not holding out high hopes for this.
For the future, invest in a very loud wind-up alarm clock. When I had unreliable power that's what I did.
Or a clock with a battery back-up.
Also, good luck to her!
This is certainly true for small animal practice and is a good point to bring up. There are vet employment options that avoid the customer/salesman front end and associated problems. Of course, those are the kind of jobs that tend to appeal less to the people who want to be veterinarians, like large animal practice, autopsy (for the food industry), or maintaining research animals.
When you're that far in the financial hole though, it really is time to try and see just how much money you can make.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Then she should have a battery powered alarm clock or use her cell phone among lots of other options. If she frequently loses power then a battery powered clock should be a no brainer. She should not be relying on you to wake her up and she needs to fix this ASAP.
It's not just going after your wages, it's putting a black mark on your credit record that could affect things like mortgage rates and rates on future car and school loans. It can affect whether or not someone rents a home/apartment to you. Even with a pre-nup her having bad credit can affect you seriously. You should look into how this could be a problem down the line before making any rash decisions.
She had battery powered alarm clock, but her dog ate it... there is a new one in the mail but mail does tend to take quite awhile to get there, so I've been filling the place... hence: my fault.
There are plenty of slow/no payers in large animal medicine too (my gal is mixed animal, so she gets the best of both worlds - the dog owners that want their dog fixed for free and the herd owner who won't pay for palpation to determine pregancy). You also have to have tracked mixed or large in order to get a sniff of a job in those kinds of practices. Sure, equine medicine can be lucrative, but you need years of experience and the perfect location to make the big $$.
But, yeah, some of those industrial jobs pay pretty well.
Either way, I'm assuming his GF probably tracked small animal (as about 80% or more of vets do), so falling into a $150,000 a year job (or even a $90,000 a year job depending on location) is very unlikely.
IF she gets a job straight out of school paying 90,000 (highly unlikely given the current market and the crap carribean school degree), she makes too much to deduct any of the student loan interest on her tax return.
A student loan of 300K at 5% interest rate will generate about $15,000 worth of interest a year.
Even if you get a nice 3% rate, you will still pay 9,000 a year.
This means of her take home of approx 4K per month. She will need to be paying $750 a month in interest JUST TO BREAK EVEN.
Lets assume she is paying 3% a year on the 300K and pays back $1,000 a month (effectively making her 90K salary into 67K), how long do you think itll take her to pay back this degree?
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That's right! 48 YEARS!
And im sorry, she can spend 300K to party in the Carribean (because obviously she cant WORK her way through college like those of us that dont want 48 years of debt did) but she cant invest something with BATTERIES to wake herself up? I hope she enjoyed her years of college, because those just screwed her for the rest of her life. (And yours if you let it, you said fiance so still not too late)
And if this post is worth another infraction, GO FOR IT. Its worth it to let the financially retarded know that the government wont be there to bail them out at the expense of those that work forever.
There are some pretty nice programs out there that offer loan repayment/forgiveness for veterinarians who commit to rural and food animal practice. I'd strongly suggest looking into something like that, it may cost out better than trying to get into small animal work.
http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/mar10/100315b.asp
Maybe order two alarm clocks, cause I doubt they'll give her a third chance.
You may be making dogshit now, but where do you see yourself in 5, 10, or even 20 years? Do you ever want a house, a late model car, vacations, or to send your children to college? If you stay with this girl you will likely be paying off this loan voluntarily or through garnishment for the rest of your life.
Unless there is some sickly rich relative on her side, I would seriously consider bailing on this whole thing.
$300,000.... holy christ.