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Is this relationship okay?
Riale
I'm a little slowRegistered User regular
I'm a little slowRegistered User regular
A little backstory is necessary. I'm currently living with my girlfriend of about a year and a half. This isn't a 'we just moved in together' story, we've been living with eachother for at least 8 months now. We're both attending University together, and she's working, while I'm taking more credits (My degree requires more).
Our relationship had a rocky start. I was suffering from severe clinical depression and was juggling a variety of antidepressants. I tried to commit suicide several times in our first year together, but she was there for me, and in the last 6 months I've made considerable strides, to the point where (until recently) I would say I am functioning normally. This obviously took a toll on the relationship, but she was emotionally supportive and wanted to continue.
Now that we're past this difficult point, things have become very tense between us. Large fights erupt over minor misunderstandings. I can attribute a lot of this to stress (we just moved to a new city, new university, etc), but my issue is the way that she is handling herself. While previously we had plenty of rational conversations together, even when I was very desperate and even angry, now she breaks down very fast.
In our arguments, I tend to be very calm and even spoken. I try to reason and I never really raise my voice or make rude remarks. She has been the exact opposite. To give an example, today we had a fight on the way to school. I mentioned that I needed to leave right away, as her class is notably closer than mine, and if I wait for her to leave, I'll usually be late if we walk together (and she always wants to walk together). I stupidly phrased it as not wanting to be late 'because of her'. I realized my mistake, and I immediately apologized and explained that I wasn't trying to lay the blame on her, that it was my decision when I left and that me being late or not wasn't her fault.
In response, she said I hated her, told me to fuck off and get away from her, and then when I did give her space, she chased me down, grabbed me, screamed epithets at me and made some very hurtful remarks regarding our sex life (regret she ever touched me sexually, etc). Now, keep in mind this is broad daylight on a crowded campus block.
I was intensely hurt by the remarks and more than a little surprised at the severity, however, our arguments have almost exclusively taken these tones in the last several months. I understand she's under more stress than usual, but I don't feel I'm deserving of these remarks, especially because I do everything I can do lessen our stress (I do all the housework, I cook all the food, I offer help with her homework, etc).
When she gets upset, it's impossible to reason with her, she escalates very quickly (to the point where I am often scared, though she has yet to throw anything really dangerous at me), she chases me down so I'm unable to distance myself from her, and she doesn't care whether it's in public or not.
I don't really know what to do anymore. Any advice would be very helpful. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in a lease with her until July, so simply leaving isn't an option. I'm starting to get at my wit's end here.
Oh, and before anyone asks, we've talked about this. Her usual response is that I hate her, blame her for everything and similar martyr-esque phrases, despite me repeatedly saying that I don't blame her, I don't hate her and I only want to work things out.
Our relationship had a rocky start. I was suffering from severe clinical depression and was juggling a variety of antidepressants. I tried to commit suicide several times in our first year together, but she was there for me, and in the last 6 months I've made considerable strides, to the point where (until recently) I would say I am functioning normally. This obviously took a toll on the relationship, but she was emotionally supportive and wanted to continue.
Now that we're past this difficult point, things have become very tense between us. Large fights erupt over minor misunderstandings. I can attribute a lot of this to stress (we just moved to a new city, new university, etc), but my issue is the way that she is handling herself. While previously we had plenty of rational conversations together, even when I was very desperate and even angry, now she breaks down very fast.
In our arguments, I tend to be very calm and even spoken. I try to reason and I never really raise my voice or make rude remarks. She has been the exact opposite. To give an example, today we had a fight on the way to school. I mentioned that I needed to leave right away, as her class is notably closer than mine, and if I wait for her to leave, I'll usually be late if we walk together (and she always wants to walk together). I stupidly phrased it as not wanting to be late 'because of her'. I realized my mistake, and I immediately apologized and explained that I wasn't trying to lay the blame on her, that it was my decision when I left and that me being late or not wasn't her fault.
In response, she said I hated her, told me to fuck off and get away from her, and then when I did give her space, she chased me down, grabbed me, screamed epithets at me and made some very hurtful remarks regarding our sex life (regret she ever touched me sexually, etc). Now, keep in mind this is broad daylight on a crowded campus block.
I was intensely hurt by the remarks and more than a little surprised at the severity, however, our arguments have almost exclusively taken these tones in the last several months. I understand she's under more stress than usual, but I don't feel I'm deserving of these remarks, especially because I do everything I can do lessen our stress (I do all the housework, I cook all the food, I offer help with her homework, etc).
When she gets upset, it's impossible to reason with her, she escalates very quickly (to the point where I am often scared, though she has yet to throw anything really dangerous at me), she chases me down so I'm unable to distance myself from her, and she doesn't care whether it's in public or not.
I don't really know what to do anymore. Any advice would be very helpful. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in a lease with her until July, so simply leaving isn't an option. I'm starting to get at my wit's end here.
Oh, and before anyone asks, we've talked about this. Her usual response is that I hate her, blame her for everything and similar martyr-esque phrases, despite me repeatedly saying that I don't blame her, I don't hate her and I only want to work things out.
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The problem with breaking the lease is my mother paid first+last for this apartment as a graduation gift, and I don't have the money to move out.
I feel really trapped right now.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
Ok, these things are so far from ok it's not even funny. The fact that she chases you down and grabs you is not right. The fact that you say that she hasn't thrown anything dangerous vs hasn't thrown anything leads me to believe she has in fact thrown some things at you. She is screaming at you in public and refuses to address this behavior even in private. This is abusive behavior and you don't have to take it.
I would suggest contacting your landlord about breaking the lease. Can you afford the rent by yourself if she moves out? If so, you can ask her to move out without breaking your lease. I'd also look into finding a new tenant for your apartment. It will be much easier to convince the landlord to let you out if someone is willing to sign a lease right away.
I would also look into what kind of counseling the university's health services offers. Also, if she ever hits you or throws anything at you call the police and document it. Don't let her abuse you.
I'm 100% sure that your university offers counseling services free of charge, please take advantage of that and make sure that your counselor is aware both about your current situation and your previous difficulties with depression, as this sort of situation can be a huge trigger for some people
That said, no this is absolutely NOT ok. She may not be physically hurting you but painful words are just as damaging, and in this case definitely in the verbally abusive category
Talk with your landlord about breaking the lease or transferring it to a smaller one bedroom for just you, but at a minimum please go and crash on one of your friend's couch until you can find a safe and secure place to be. It's difficult and it may seem impossible, but if it's impacting your mental well being you need to remove yourself from the situation.
And like VoC says above, if she ever throws something at you or hits you or even physically threatens you, call the police.
I think you understand that this is pretty obviously not okay. Don't make apologies for her screaming at you. I won't pretend that telling her you didn't want to be late because of her was your smartest move, but her reaction sounds extreme. Yelling at you in public sounds extreme. The fact that she grabbed you is scary. That you can't talk to her about it calmly without her blaming you is a terrible sign.
Like Usagi said, if it's at all possible, maybe find somewhere else to stay for a couple nights. I also recommend that you tell a (local) friend of yours what's going on. I know we're great and all, but a friend can check up on you and make sure you're okay. It doesn't sound like much, but another pair of eyes that knows what's going on and is looking out for you can make all the difference.
edit: What Druhim said crossed my mind as well. Maybe that's worth a think.
It's called being Co-dependent, and while it is entirely plausible, there is not enough in the OP for me to say either way.
In any case, this relationship is not healthy. Yes, she might have been there for you in the past, but the present is entirely fucked.
At the very least, I think you should look for alternative housing.
Dealing with all this is going to be a pain in the ass. There's no easier way to put it. It might seem like it will be easier to wait and see if things improve, but they probably won't. Confronting them sooner will be much easier than waiting.
We argue about stupid stuff, a lot of it is due to stress of never being able to see one another due to highly conflicting schedules.
When we do fight, she's very emotional and I'm the exact opposite (at first, but eventually I get heated). I like to not be around people when I'm mad at them, so if I try to leave the room, or whatever, she'll run me down and say she doesn't want me to go.
And whenever I tell her that she needs to be more patient with me and not snap or have knee-jerk reactions at small stupid things she acts like she's to blame in all our fights and that she's ruining our relationship.
I guess I could probably use some advice as well, but how I've been handling it is I constantly assure her that I love her and I always will. I always try to calm her down when she blows up and say I will not talk if she continues to raise her voice or be rude. She's very rarely ever rude and never says hurtful things.
I guess I can only suggest the same thing. Do not talk to one another in raised voices. Tell her that you will not talk or listen to her if she raises her voice and encourage her to calm down. This will usually lead to better conversations. It works for me most of the time. But because she seems like my fiancee, but more intense, you may have a harder time getting her to calm down and it may actually add fuel to the fire. So I guess use with discretion.
I'm not asking, I was kind of pointing out the irony.
But I won't actually be using this for advice, but I will read what is said to see if it can be applied to my situation.
I don't feel this is very appropriate.
I mean, how does this actually help him?
I just think that dumping/breaking up should be a last resort after trying to salvage the relationship. It doesn't seem that bad to me. Just sounds like a little patience needs to be exercised on both their parts (more hers than his) and they need to really just communicate better.
Hell, this could probably be said about the majority of relationships that are on the verge of ending.
I feel this is particularly important for you as someone who has overcome/is overcoming depression. There is always the possibility that if things escalate further, the potential exists for her to do considerable emotional and self esteem damage to you, on top of the possibility that she could just decide to organize a way to leave the lease on her own, leaving you with that additional pressure. You are on the road to recovery, so consider your own mental wellbeing carefully here.
I'm not saying you should definitely leave her. We only get one half of the story in these threads - if you're able to talk to each other rationally there's always a chance to work things out. Just make sure you look after yourself though.
You it'd be nice if they can salvage the relationship. But lets be honest here, she doesn't take critiscm. If she can't take it they wont be able to move forward.
OP just remember, you don't deserve to be treated like this from anyone, let alone someone who claims to love you.
Satans..... hints.....
They paid two months of it as a gift and nothing else it sounds like and he hasn't said if he can afford it alone.
Also, he hasn't said if only his name is on the lease and if her name is also on the lease then he can't just tell her to leave, it's more complicated than that.
Seconding this... I realize it can be hard to ask for help, especially once you've hit the adult age, but sometimes it's necessary. I'm sure you can find a smaller, cheaper place if need be... or perhaps do a temp. stint back with the parents until this term is over and you've had some time to clear your head
I know the relationship isn't okay, and it's the simplest and possibly healthiest option to just get out...but it's emotionally draining, and, in your case, will add a lot of stress (for a shorter time).
Basically, I'm asking "what has changed?" Are you doing anything different? Have you stopped trying to take her out on dates? Have you stopped giving gifts, or telling her how great she is? Can you start trying to "date" her again?
Then again, maybe she only likes it when you're depressed and in a terrible place, so that she can "help" you out of it. We can't really say, at least not with more information...but if any of the above sound familiar, it's possible that she's resorted to yelling at you because every time she tries to communicate that she isn't feeling loved anymore, you ignore it. This would all probably be subconscious for her, and it's not your fault, she is probably not communicating it very effectively.
Again, or maybe she's just bat-sh*t crazy...
We're on the lease together.
My mother is helping subsidize the rent, but we share all other expenses.
A little more background, when we first began dating I wasn't depressed. She wasn't attracted to me because of a desire to 'help me out' of a bad place, rather she stayed with me despite my situation.
I've spoken to my parents and I may be able to come up with the funds for some counseling (I don't want to go with free university sessions. Been there, done that, bad experience all around). She's willing to go and I don't want to give up that easily so I'm willing to stay at least for the temporary while we work on this.
One thing that does give me hope is she almost immediately felt terrible for the way she acted, apologized profusely, understands it wasn't right and was even kind enough to bring home a bouquet for me (Funny getting flowers as the guy in the relationship). Obviously this doesn't excuse her actions, but it makes me hopeful that things can change.
Thanks everyone for the comments so far.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
I'm just going to tell you now that this is not an awesomely hopeful thing to me, and probably a lot of other people are going to say the same thing. I mean, I hope it's the good sign you think it is, but this wasn't an isolated incident. You kind of make it sound like the feeling bad part is.
To elaborate, it could be a good sign and the apology is certainly better than nothing, but "act badly, freak out, apologize, be super nice, act badly, freak out, apologize, be super nice" is basically a recognized pattern in most abusive relationships.
That doesn't automatically mean the apology is a bad thing, just remember that an apology doesn't undo what she's done and it doesn't give you any obligation to tolerate any future abuse in the relationship. If she continues abusing you (and let's be very clear, publicly shaming you and mocking you sexually in front of a crowd is very clearly abuse) the relationship needs to end.
Also, her apology and show of regret and the gift could just be part of the honeymoon phase in the cycle of domestic abuse. So while it is good to have hope it's also good to have an exit plan just in case.
Also, although it's not ideal for my schooling situation (1hr+ commute) I am able to stay with my mother for some period of time if things get any worse here.
Here's hoping the counseling will help.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
I partially agree with this.
As you said, Riale, it doesn't excuse her actions. But it does show remorse and hopefully a willingness to work on it. Also since she said she's willing to go to counseling is a good sign as well.
It sounds like you really want to make this relationship work and I think you should. She stuck by you through hard times and it just seems like this is another hard time. If you can last through this and come out still loving one another, then you'll have a good long life ahead of you.
But this can also be the point in the relationship where you realize it's going nowhere or not really worth it anymore. You'll have to recognize when it's come to this point.
I may be the only one here, but I'm glad you're trying. It seems most people just give up on relationships when they get hard. Even if this doesn't work out in the end, it'll help you in future relationships.
Good luck!
Try changing your diet to help with the depression and stress. (Try the Blood Type Diet, it can help you in handling stress and maybe help get you off the medications. I found that sodas would cause my depressions. The diet also recommends problem solving techniques.)
Try enrolling in martial arts for yourself or both of you. Try dance classes for both of you.
For relationships, it is recommended that the couple do or find things to do together, to develop common things that both of you enjoy.
Riale, if you want to give her the benefit of the doubt and try and save this train wreck--or at least make it bearable until July--you will need to find some counseling. Your campus has free services out the proverbial ass, so make use of them. Unfortunately, she'll probably resist unless you choose your words carefully. This is true of all relationships, but avoid saying "you do X" during a fight, and in this case the phrase "WE need to go to counseling, we're fighting all the time" is better than anything.
I mean, I know they few times ive gotten cranky around my wife, I feel real bad and want to make it up to her. Isnt that just natural? I do that if I act inapproriately to anyone, friends, family, etc. It seems natural to feel bad and want to fix/undo your mistake once you realize you acted wrongly.
So how does one differentiate? What constitutes a cycle and what constitutes a random outburst followed by sincere regret?
A cycle means it continues. After the honeymoon period the abuse starts again and then you see another honeymoon period. At first the honeymoon period is the longer period but over time the honeymoon period could become mere hours only. A one time mistake is just that, it happens once.
Not that the OP shouldnt be at least concerned that it IS a cycle. But I wouldnt take the action of the "abuser" showing regret and trying to make up for the transgression as evidence. It seems as though in both an actual pattern of abuse and a one off mistake, the natural progression is for the agressor to feel regret and try to remedy it.
Speculation obviously, but i've known it happen. That said, in no way does it excuse the behaviour exhibited.
another point that I would add from my own experience. You say you are the rational one and talk in a level manner. I do this, but I think in the heat of the moment this can be a shield as well... I like to be honest, but I think you can say things in a 'calm, rational manner' that I think this can sometimes be code for you saying something dickish and expecting to get away without a fight. I don't mean consciously, but I know I have done this in the past - said something that seemed to be in the name of 'just having an honest rational conversation' and then realising later - 'actually, that wasn't exactly a good thing to say... and really I knew that before I said it. Damn'.
The comment about you being late 'because of her' for instance. Again, does not excuse the response she gave, but if you cant change her behaviour, it may be worth seeing what you can do about you. You said you realised immediately your mistake, but was this an isolated incident or do you frequently tend to say potentially mean things in a calm and rational manner (as again, I unfortunately have a tendency to do myself that i'm working on)?
If so, it may be that she perceives 'talking calmly and rationally' as 'He gets to insult me and I have to be quiet about it'. So this builds into emotional outburts?
Other people have given way better advice on how to deal with her, but if you fancy some introspection as well, those may be points worth looking into.
With that said, I still think it's more likely that she's having trouble dealing with you not 'needing' her as much now that you are recovering, and this is how she is currently reacting. It's good that she is apologising, use the opportunity to have a good talk together. Bring up BOTH of your issues while she's in this headspace, it should be a lot easier to bring things up in a way that you can both tackle these problems as a team, which is very important. Do not put this conversation off! You want it to take place while she is in this apologetic, 'I want to fix things!' state.
As others have suggested, be aware of a potential cycle of abuse, and be strong enough to get out of it if it is making you unhappy more often than not.