[WoW] [Death Knights] I wish I could Death Grip my ottoman

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2010
    captaink wrote: »
    Is Death Strike the only option available for self healing for Unholy? I'm trying to quest and some self healing would be nice. Death Strike is kind of awkward to work into my rotation.

    You can sacrifice your minion.

    But otherwise, yes.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • WaltWalt Waller Arcane Enchanted Frozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    You are unholy. You have burned UF on Death Strike. The world is now ending, because there are no abilities you can use to reset your runes.

    Walt on
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    That's why I liked Blood for leveling, self healing was easy.

    captaink on
  • simsim Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Blood
    Death Strike now heals you for 25% (down from 30%) of the damage sustained during the preceding 5 sec, minimum of at least 7% (down from 10%) of your maximum health.
    Rune Tap now heals you for 10% of your maximum health, down from 15%.

    Blah - blood shield certainly didn't need a nerf at 80...I guess geared out 85s could get pretty high health pools though. For blood pvp, while I can heal myself quite nicely, I still feel way more squishy than druids, paladins, and warriors.

    sim on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Unholy's self-healing options are fucking terrible now. DS is a huge sacrifice in damage, and Death Pact is as well since your pet is like 30%+ of your damage.

    Edit: And this was before reading sim's post. Christ. I guess if you want to play a self-healing melee DPS class now, you play a rogue, warrior, or shit, pretty much anything but a DK?

    forty on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    And presumably, the only reason why I hear so many people complain about this, is because there's actually a lot of self-healing you have to do, when levelling in Cataclysm. I'm prepared for unholy to need maybe something like 1-2 DSes on every mob, as opposed to every couple of mobs, which leave me considering blood the only acceptable levelling spec.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I'd like to know what the reasoning behind the nerf is. Are blood tanks self-healing too much? Or is it that the DPS specs are actually healing too much (which seems unlikely, but that's why I'm curious)?

    forty on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2010
    Blood tanks are healing for way, way, way, way too much.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I guess there's no talent in the blood tree related to the healing death strike does that can be changed to adjust one spec without touching others. :/

    forty on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Blood tanks are healing for way, way, way, way too much.

    This.

    Their design for the DK has been .... unfocused this whole expansion. They've killed our self-healing, made it incredibly difficult for one spec to even use it and then they nerfed it again because the one spec with good self-healing was too good. Our self-healing is now way worse then a bunch of other DPS classes.

    Really, I think designing one tank around self-healing in an expansion designed to make healing more difficult was not a good idea.
    forty wrote: »
    I guess there's no talent in the blood tree related to the healing death strike does that can be changed to adjust one spec without touching others. :/

    The really stupid thing is, it's the "heal for X% of the damage you take" part that makes it overpowered for tanking, not the minimum heal. But they nerfed the minimum heal anyway, despite the fact that it's the most important part of the move to the DPS specs and is already kinda subpar for them.

    Though I've seen some claims that the nerf is designed to compensate for the new, rather huge, bump in stamina scaling everyone got.

    shryke on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    That's exactly what I was thinking.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2010
    DKs are the best tanks by far right now for raid bosses.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Grape ApeGrape Ape Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    DKs are the best tanks by far right now for raid bosses.

    Is this on live or on beta? I ask because supposedly druids were rock hard to point that encounters designed around them led to other tanks getting two-shot

    Grape Ape on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Though I've seen some claims that the nerf is designed to compensate for the new, rather huge, bump in stamina scaling everyone got.
    Were any other %health heals nerfed as well?

    forty on
  • Wicked Uncle ErnieWicked Uncle Ernie Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Taunt's mechanics make it completely useless as a method of pulling/gaining initial aggro. All it does is put you just above the highest threat the mob has. I believe it's the mob's target's threat +1. Death Grip is a better choice, as all it does is force your target to attack you for 3 seconds. In either case you must actually do some damage in order to actually keep the mob on you.

    I should note that death grip and dark command work exactly the same (bar DG's yank effect) - they both taunt to match the highest threat and they both force the target to attack you for up to 3 seconds.
    captaink wrote: »
    Is Death Strike the only option available for self healing for Unholy? I'm trying to quest and some self healing would be nice. Death Strike is kind of awkward to work into my rotation.

    You could eat your ghoul once you get sufficiently low. What's wrong with deathstrikin'? Just burn the excess blood rune on a blood strike.

    Unless it's been changed, Deathgrip worked on mocking blow mechanics, which just forced the mob to attack you for three seconds, leaving threat unchanged.

    edit:
    After about 30 seconds of google-fu i have determined that your are correct :p

    Wicked Uncle Ernie on
  • Wicked Uncle ErnieWicked Uncle Ernie Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Blood tanks are healing for way, way, way, way too much.

    Lol, what, my 30-45k self heals on LK are OP? Says who?!

    Wicked Uncle Ernie on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    How well are WoG speced paladins doing with self healing in comparison? I know one of the guild's MTs was speced for it in beta and was impressed with the results.

    forty on
  • ToldoToldo But actually, WeegianRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    As a DWing frost DK, are weapons like Nighttime viable? It has agility on it, unfortunately. What other weapons should I be looking for?

    Toldo on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    All 213+ level 80 non-tank 1hers have agility, so Nighttime is as good as anything else at that ilevel. The tank weapons have strength but are too fast to be good in addition to having one or sometimes two avoidance stats that do nothing for you.

    forty on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Hey DW dks: fast/fast, slow/slow, fast/slow, slow/fast?

    INeedNoSalt on
  • WaltWalt Waller Arcane Enchanted Frozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    slow/slow

    Walt on
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Some people have suggested the PvP 1 handers which don't have agil.

    KafkaAU on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Yeah, I forgot about those. Although with Cataclysm this close it's not really worth grinding the honor for them. Think it's around 2,500 for both the MH and OH?

    forty on
  • simsim Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I'm quite happy with my heroic icc lootship 1h axe with the really cheap PVP axe in my offhand. AGI on slow 1h's is a real waste - and I'm not sure the trend will be changing in cata, but top end weapon damage is so much more important than stats on the weapons that who cares.

    sim on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    There are slow, strength 1hers in cata.

    forty on
  • ToldoToldo But actually, WeegianRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Has itemization in Cataclysm changed? Will there be one handers with strength?

    EDIT: Damn, get out of my head.

    Toldo on
  • BigbootsBigboots Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I just realized, the only spec I like for DKs now is blood. And here I was bitching about it 3 weeks ago. Man I really don't like DKs that much anymore.

    Bigboots on
  • Wicked Uncle ErnieWicked Uncle Ernie Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Bigboots wrote: »
    I just realized, the only spec I like for DKs now is blood. And here I was bitching about it 3 weeks ago. Man I really don't like DKs that much anymore.

    This seems strange to me. All three trees are much more focused and each has more character, the differences are more defined. But I really like the changes, take the RNG out of my threat and I'll be a happy camper.

    Wicked Uncle Ernie on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Oh, I definitely think DKs are better off, though to a lesser degree than several other classes that got huge changes.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • Wicked Uncle ErnieWicked Uncle Ernie Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Septus wrote: »
    Oh, I definitely think DKs are better off, though to a lesser degree than several other classes that got huge changes.

    I do believe some of the classes changes that seem drastic are more due to bad itemizeation at lvl 80 (for those specs). Blizz had said they were not worried about balance at 80....Of course then all the Warriors started crying about fury....I wonder why they haven't changed anything for rogues, they got hit pretty hard. At any rate, I guess we can only hope that they are aiming at something concrete in terms of balance at level 85.

    Wicked Uncle Ernie on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I mean drastic, in terms of talent and spell changes alone.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • WaltWalt Waller Arcane Enchanted Frozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    With regards to DK changes for Cataclysm, the class is pretty much the same on the surface, but the alteration to how runes regenerate and the changes to all of the rune costs of abilities changed how the class plays quite a bit. Your abilities have the same names but how you use them is pretty different. For example, Unholy's priority system feels a lot like the old Blood, where you use your 2 rune strike so you can blow through an entire sequence of 1 rune abilities. Just not having fixed rotations is a pretty big difference.

    And speaking of which, I feel like my Unholy DPS is not as competitive as it should be. Granted, I don't have the best gear, but there is no reason I should ever be falling below 5k DPS in a heroic, regardless of dps spec. My general strategy is for 3 pulls, do single target priority with pestilence and death and decay (since it is ~even damage with plague strike) and for 5+ pulls, do AOE. For whatever reason, I am only averaging about 5.3-5.5k dps on boss dummies and much lower in heroics, as stuff tends to die before my DPS can ramp up.

    I've tracked my damage reports from Recount, and my damage priorities are exactly where they should be, with expected returns from Scourge Strike, Death Coil, Ghoul Damage, and I am reasonably certain my priority is fine (if not flawless 99% of the time). So why is my damage sucking so bad? Should I not be using pestilence/dnd on 3 pulls? I dunno.

    Here is my armory btw (dps spec changes between frost/unholy near constantly): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ravenholdt/andurewns/
    Aside from reforging/gear optimization issues (LOL OVER HIT CAP, UNSOCKETED STUFF, cataclysm laziness is my excuse) what could be the problem? My unholy spec is the same optimized spec in the OP, if its not on my armory atm.

    Walt on
  • simsim Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Is the EJ recommended focus for unholy still haste? I've been wondering how unholy would do with stats dumped into mastery and strength - kinda avoiding haste in favor of bigger hits and dot damage.

    Frost PVE is delicious now for bosses and aoe - also great for blowing up vehicles in pvp. I have a feeling that blood will be a pretty common pvp spec once RS is fixed.

    sim on
  • Thomase1984Thomase1984 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Isn't unholy priorities: Special Hit Cap > Strength > Haste > Crit > Expertise > Mastery?

    So basically socketing strength but reforging haste?

    Thomase1984 on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I logged in my DK for the first time in weeks, and for the hell of it, I hit Blood Boil. Holy shit, Blood Boil has a real graphic now! It's more like a Blood Nova.

    forty on
  • simsim Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Please let runestrike be fixed tonight...

    sim on
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    sim wrote: »
    Please let runestrike be fixed tonight...

    Runestrike is fixed. Yay.

    Kevin Crist on
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  • ToldoToldo But actually, WeegianRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    What was wrong with Rune Strike, anyhoo?

    EDIT: Also, I'm frosting it up, and KM pops. Obliterate is on CD, and won't be up for several seconds. All my other runes are on CD. What do I do? Wait, or use KM on FS?

    Toldo on
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Runestrike required you to parry or dodge an attack before using, now it just requires blood presence.

    KafkaAU on
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  • Wicked Uncle ErnieWicked Uncle Ernie Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Toldo wrote: »
    What was wrong with Rune Strike, anyhoo?

    EDIT: Also, I'm frosting it up, and KM pops. Obliterate is on CD, and won't be up for several seconds. All my other runes are on CD. What do I do? Wait, or use KM on FS?

    Use it, don't waste time. FS isn't ideal to use a KM on, but it's better than nothing, and if it procs a rune then you're in even better shape.

    Wicked Uncle Ernie on
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