Now that org/sw are the new game hubs, having to port then hearth back to change talents and runeforge is a giant pain. (oh I just got this nice new weapon - too bad if I go runeforge I'll be stuck for 20 minutes) It'd be nice if a DK trainer snuck into someone's basement with a forge...
Yeah, it's a huge hassle and Acherus isn't anywhere near any useful cities. Does Org have druid trainers now?
I suppose it's the price the class pays for free weapon enchants.
How is this any different then it was all of WOTLK?
For at least some people: no Dalaran port rings now.
Honestly, I feel like Acherus is overall a benefit. I'm not sure about Cataclysm, but in Wrath, I definitely found 2handers with more stam, but less ideal dps, that I would keep as my tanking weapon, and not have to switch runeforge enchants.
But even if not, it's not far from the Undercity, you can hearth on Kalimdor, and if that's not enough, there's potion portals to Deepholm. Meanwhile, it's awesome having a port to the eastern Kingdoms, for access to the Twilight Highlands, or archaelogy digsites.
Switched to unholy from dwfrost after getting a good 2h at 83...mostly because I keep getting little 1h upgrades and porting to Ach was getting annoying. Pet management's a bit meh though...I think I'll switch to 2h frost FS build and spam FS/DS to finish leveling to 85 instead.
I tanked for the first time in over a year last night (Blackrock) and had a couple disappointments. First, it seemed like my threat was crap. A lot of this was due to hunters targeting something other than the skull, but WotLK let me hold everything and more. I guess the right way to pull is with Outbreak? I only hit 81 inside the dungeon, so I didn't have it yet. Have you tanks noticed that pulling with Outbreak (allowing immediate BB, etc) works a lot better?
Also, for all the talk about hard 5-mans, this first instance is just the same old, we AOE'd everything. I'm actually a little worried for when I get to heroics because I haven't had to worry about CC in such a long time. There was some discussion from the Beta about how DK's are not set up very nicely for tanking with CC around due to Pestilence, BB, DnD, and Heart Strike all breaking sheep, etc. How are you tanks doing this? Sheep pulls, LoS?
I try to pull with Outbreak when I remember to and it's off cooldown since it's essentially "free."
And, yeah, you pretty much have to have your group pull with CCs or at least CC just after you pull. If you're with one of the "specials" who doesn't seem to be able to cast a CC until about 2 seconds after the pull has reached the group and engaged, there are going to be problems.
Those skills are not nice for tanking, because they're specifically centered around aoe tanking, barring heart strike.
I wouldn't rely on outbreak as a pulling device, with its 1 minute timer. But honestly, it shouldn't be a big deal, because aoe pulling is not going to be the norm, and I imagine three mobs at once will generally be the max, so heart strike takes care of that.
1 minute is a pretty short timer for Cataclysm dungeons. Considering you have to have a good group to get through more than two pulls a minute, it's basically up for at least every other pull.
I dunno. It seems like you'll end up with at least a few pulls of at least 4 depending on your group composition. That 6 elemental pull in VP comes to mind.
I guess the two concerns will cancel eachother out. If I did have CC, I wouldn't have had to hold on to 4 extra mobs, so threat wouldn't have been as much of an issue.
Outbreak is good for pulling just because it has the most range of your attacks and is always available. So if for some reason you can't get close enough to aggro pull or Icy Touch pull, you can use Outbreak.
Because of the AoE nature of DK tanking, I always pull things back away from the CCed target(s). This way you can Blood Boil, Heart Strike, Pestilence, DnD, etc. without having to worry about aggroing the CCed mob.
I also do not use Grip to pull. I didn't realize this until i was 80, but even if your grip misses it counts as a taunt and the mob will attack you for 3 seconds. So its good to keep this off cooldown in case you need to grab something harassing healers or have a caster mob not cooperating.
Ideally I like to have a mage or hunter pull with their CC. Ask them to move back behind you after the pull. I'll then put DnD right in front of me so the mobs walk through it on the way to the hunter and mage, and then kick in with Blood Boil, Heart Strike, Rune Strike, Death Strike, Pestilence, etc. Usually by the time they're all the way through DnD and standing in front of you, you've got all the threat you need.
Biggest thing you really need to do is make sure you're using Death Strike as much as possible. The heal is nice, but IMO the absorb that goes with it is equally important and basically what we have instead of a shield.
I also don't call my pet any more at the start of fights. If things are going good i'll call him at the end of the fight for extra DPS, but I also like to save him for those 'holy shit' moments when you need to call him and then instantly kill him with Death Pact for the heal. Death Pack + Vampiric Blood + Lichborne Heal is a pretty effective "OMG i'm going to die" save button.
I think of it as a nice slow that doesn't hurt situationally. I at least keep it on the bar. For instance on erudax in heroic Grim Batol. I was tanking, and we were 3 melee dps group. Sometimes you just needed to buy that extra time since you had 2 adds in heroic mode 2 are on 1 add and 1 is on the other. Any extra time to slow the add to buy time for dps to bring it down is better than nothing.
As a cc, i think it doesn't last long enough, the only viable c ci can see is if you plan to kite the mob since you can cast it fairly often
I'll never understand why this is confusing to people.
Edit: On a positive note, though, I love always having +15% run speed and not having to worry about getting a run speed enchant. If I'm ever required to go DW frost by the guild I will become very sad.
So I was thinking of making a Death Knight when I reach 55 with my Hunter, but i'm hearing from my guild that it's now become a rather complex affair due to Cataclysm's changes with the runes, and it now requires a degree of skill to master.
I was wondering if anyone could tell me what it's like, what the changes are etc and try alleviate my fears? The idea of being an awesome plate wearing knight of doom sounds good to me, but i'm worried I might go into it and find myself utterly confused.
It's not that confusing if you just learn what runes each ability uses and which abilities are the ones you need to focus on for your spec. Then the most helpful thing you can do is get some sort of addon to make your runes appear more prominently in your UI instead of small and squirreled away in the top left corner (I have mine displayed right under my character in the middle of the screen.) and probably something similar for disease durations.
Old DK: do A then B then C no matter what because B and C were worthless otherwise.
New DK: do A whenever available, otherwise do B, do C whenever it procs.
The same is true to some extent with most classes.
I do lack a mod, but I think frost will remain a bit difficult for me. Unholy however, doesn't seem that bad, since you eliminate random rune regen, and I don't think the pet needs to be that complex unless the group is relying on that brief stun.
yeah i think all flavors of DKs have their place in both pve and pvp. for instance I play as a Blood DK 80 percent of the time - whether pvping or pveing. both frost and unholy are good, viable melee DPS for teams and raids. and both also do great in pvp because of their survivability and damage.
I think there are a few things that turn off a lot of folks when it comes to DK. As mentioned, you need to constantly monitor your cooldowns and runes. So there's a lot of looking up and down and less muscle memory compared to some other classes.
Second, I think you use more skills more regularly and in more specific situations than some other classes. I literally had to do some soul searching to figure out what to take off my hotkeys when i got Dark Sanctum at 85.
And third, I think you need to anticipate what is going to happen a bit more to make full use of your anti-magic shell, ice fortitude, death strike shield, rune tap, etc. in a lot of cases you want to be blowing these before you start getting your asskicked or you might not be able to recover. i.e. death gripping, popping anti-magic and getting a death strike off a warlock right off the bat might be the difference between you living or dying.
I still don't have Dark Simulacrum bound since I have everything else maxed out in my current setup, and it doesn't work in macros. If I ever feel like I'm really missing out without it, I'll go to the hassle to change things up, but until then, screw it.
The sa forums suggests 2h frost is a good spec for levelling, however it suffers until you reach high levels. Until then unholy is supposed to be good because you get a pet.
I still don't have Dark Simulacrum bound since I have everything else maxed out in my current setup, and it doesn't work in macros. If I ever feel like I'm really missing out without it, I'll go to the hassle to change things up, but until then, screw it.
I don't think you're missing out, but it's fun at times when doing a normal, or trash thats not too hard, for me its more of a: "hey CD is up cast, cool i can shadowbolt this mob back"
I have literally every spell bound except for Death Gate, and macros to boot. I use Q E R T H G F Z X C V 1-6 and shift, ctrl, and alt modifiers for all of them. That should cover your entire spellbook. Never click Path of Frost again!
Unfortunately, I just don't feel comfortable losing strafe, assist, and whatever else those are currently keybound to. But I do make it a habit to at least do an alt+1, 2, and 3 to get some extra keys in.
Unfortunately, I just don't feel comfortable losing strafe, assist, and whatever else those are currently keybound to. But I do make it a habit to at least do an alt+1, 2, and 3 to get some extra keys in.
Yeah I am probably the exception to the rule. I use A and D for strafe and don't turn with the keyboard. I have focus and assist as shift+mouseup and mousedown. If you have to click something you can do way worse than DSim. I just hate clicking in general outside of professions and warps. Even with all my keybinds its only just enough to fit in macros and such.
So, started out my first DK and finished out the beginner questline in Stormwind. Kinda lost as to where I should go next. Any ideas or recommendations?
You know, hold right mouse button + A and D makes you strafe. Q and E should be bound to something you deem important, i use em for taunt and deathgrip.
I click a lot of stuff. N attacks, those are all bound. But defensive cooldowns I clicky. I also click target, I've never made a habit of tab targeting.
You know, hold right mouse button + A and D makes you strafe. Q and E should be bound to something you deem important, i use em for taunt and deathgrip.
I click a lot of stuff. N attacks, those are all bound. But defensive cooldowns I clicky. I also click target, I've never made a habit of tab targeting.
Yes. I don't keyboard turn for instances, but I also greatly appreciate the ability to turn and strafe without the mouse, at other times.
So, started out my first DK and finished out the beginner questline in Stormwind. Kinda lost as to where I should go next. Any ideas or recommendations?
Meh, sounds fun to me. Screw complexity. Just means you need to practice more, and the end result is you're awesome.
Final question, 2handed or duel wielding? Or does it not matter?
The latest EJ modeling I believe shows DW Unholy as best spec, w/ 2H Unholy and DW frost very very close behind (within 1-2%), and 2H frost further back (~10% behind). Note these are simulators assuming best available gear, all buffs, etc, so of course they have to be understood w/ that in mind.
From personal experience, I leveled as 2H Frost and made the switch to DW frost when I was ready to start heroics. Switching has led to a definitive DPS increase for me. That being said, I would not have wanted to level as DW...it just seems like a somewhat slower playstyle, I can't really explain it, just a feeling from now having run a few nights of dungeons and finishing up quests in DW.
Dark Simulacrum doesn't stop the spell it just lets you copy it.
So you can Dark Simulacrum Grand Vizier in Vortex Pinnacle, and he will hit you with a 12k lightning bolt, and then you will hit him with a 17k lightning bolt.
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But even if not, it's not far from the Undercity, you can hearth on Kalimdor, and if that's not enough, there's potion portals to Deepholm. Meanwhile, it's awesome having a port to the eastern Kingdoms, for access to the Twilight Highlands, or archaelogy digsites.
Also, for all the talk about hard 5-mans, this first instance is just the same old, we AOE'd everything. I'm actually a little worried for when I get to heroics because I haven't had to worry about CC in such a long time. There was some discussion from the Beta about how DK's are not set up very nicely for tanking with CC around due to Pestilence, BB, DnD, and Heart Strike all breaking sheep, etc. How are you tanks doing this? Sheep pulls, LoS?
And, yeah, you pretty much have to have your group pull with CCs or at least CC just after you pull. If you're with one of the "specials" who doesn't seem to be able to cast a CC until about 2 seconds after the pull has reached the group and engaged, there are going to be problems.
I wouldn't rely on outbreak as a pulling device, with its 1 minute timer. But honestly, it shouldn't be a big deal, because aoe pulling is not going to be the norm, and I imagine three mobs at once will generally be the max, so heart strike takes care of that.
I dunno. It seems like you'll end up with at least a few pulls of at least 4 depending on your group composition. That 6 elemental pull in VP comes to mind.
Because of the AoE nature of DK tanking, I always pull things back away from the CCed target(s). This way you can Blood Boil, Heart Strike, Pestilence, DnD, etc. without having to worry about aggroing the CCed mob.
I also do not use Grip to pull. I didn't realize this until i was 80, but even if your grip misses it counts as a taunt and the mob will attack you for 3 seconds. So its good to keep this off cooldown in case you need to grab something harassing healers or have a caster mob not cooperating.
Ideally I like to have a mage or hunter pull with their CC. Ask them to move back behind you after the pull. I'll then put DnD right in front of me so the mobs walk through it on the way to the hunter and mage, and then kick in with Blood Boil, Heart Strike, Rune Strike, Death Strike, Pestilence, etc. Usually by the time they're all the way through DnD and standing in front of you, you've got all the threat you need.
Biggest thing you really need to do is make sure you're using Death Strike as much as possible. The heal is nice, but IMO the absorb that goes with it is equally important and basically what we have instead of a shield.
I also don't call my pet any more at the start of fights. If things are going good i'll call him at the end of the fight for extra DPS, but I also like to save him for those 'holy shit' moments when you need to call him and then instantly kill him with Death Pact for the heal. Death Pack + Vampiric Blood + Lichborne Heal is a pretty effective "OMG i'm going to die" save button.
Empire - Veela Server
Empire - Veela Server
As a cc, i think it doesn't last long enough, the only viable c ci can see is if you plan to kite the mob since you can cast it fairly often
Edit: On a positive note, though, I love always having +15% run speed and not having to worry about getting a run speed enchant. If I'm ever required to go DW frost by the guild I will become very sad.
I was wondering if anyone could tell me what it's like, what the changes are etc and try alleviate my fears? The idea of being an awesome plate wearing knight of doom sounds good to me, but i'm worried I might go into it and find myself utterly confused.
Help please?
New DK: do A whenever available, otherwise do B, do C whenever it procs.
The same is true to some extent with most classes.
I think there are a few things that turn off a lot of folks when it comes to DK. As mentioned, you need to constantly monitor your cooldowns and runes. So there's a lot of looking up and down and less muscle memory compared to some other classes.
Second, I think you use more skills more regularly and in more specific situations than some other classes. I literally had to do some soul searching to figure out what to take off my hotkeys when i got Dark Sanctum at 85.
And third, I think you need to anticipate what is going to happen a bit more to make full use of your anti-magic shell, ice fortitude, death strike shield, rune tap, etc. in a lot of cases you want to be blowing these before you start getting your asskicked or you might not be able to recover. i.e. death gripping, popping anti-magic and getting a death strike off a warlock right off the bat might be the difference between you living or dying.
Empire - Veela Server
You are missing out.
Final question, 2handed or duel wielding? Or does it not matter?
Only puny girly Death Knights dual wield.
I don't think you're missing out, but it's fun at times when doing a normal, or trash thats not too hard, for me its more of a: "hey CD is up cast, cool i can shadowbolt this mob back"
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
I click a lot of stuff. N attacks, those are all bound. But defensive cooldowns I clicky. I also click target, I've never made a habit of tab targeting.
Yes. I don't keyboard turn for instances, but I also greatly appreciate the ability to turn and strafe without the mouse, at other times.
Outlands/Northrend.
:rotate:
Yeah i've had a few cool moments with it.
my favorite was running down a shaman who had hexed me and then hexing him right back.
Empire - Veela Server
The latest EJ modeling I believe shows DW Unholy as best spec, w/ 2H Unholy and DW frost very very close behind (within 1-2%), and 2H frost further back (~10% behind). Note these are simulators assuming best available gear, all buffs, etc, so of course they have to be understood w/ that in mind.
From personal experience, I leveled as 2H Frost and made the switch to DW frost when I was ready to start heroics. Switching has led to a definitive DPS increase for me. That being said, I would not have wanted to level as DW...it just seems like a somewhat slower playstyle, I can't really explain it, just a feeling from now having run a few nights of dungeons and finishing up quests in DW.
So, does it interrupt and steal the spell, or do you have to have it on them before they start casting?
So you can Dark Simulacrum Grand Vizier in Vortex Pinnacle, and he will hit you with a 12k lightning bolt, and then you will hit him with a 17k lightning bolt.