dog question

Elin

Ok, I know I need to start correcting this quickly, but I don't know what to do.

I just got a second dog yesterday. I got him from a no kill shelter, he's 7 years old, 35 lbs (a bit chunky I think), and is thought to be a standard rat terrier. He's pretty sweet and mellow, a cuddler to the max. My issue is he is snapping at my other dog. It is only in very specific circumstances. If he is up and about they are fine. I treat them together and there is no issue. They eat in the same area, no aggression. If the new dog is sitting next to me on the couch and my Pom jumps directly on my lap, no aggression. Now, if the Pom approaches from the front or from the side I'm not on, snarling or a snap. Also, he was in the bed at my feet and the Pom jumped up and the new dog snapped.

My neighbors took him to their place for a bit yesterday whole I was in class, and they have a dog too. They said there was no aggression at all. He also has greeted other dogs on leash while I was walking him with no aggression.

Any ideas on this?

DirtyDirtyVagrant

First of all, 35 lbs for a rat terrier is absolutely enormous. That's like double the ordinary body weight.

It might be reflexive. Is the terrier being startled? Does he snap and then immediately back off?

Elin

DirtyDirtyVagrant wrote: »

First of all, 35 lbs for a rat terrier is absolutely enormous. That's like double the ordinary body weight.

It might be reflexive. Is the terrier being startled? Does he snap and then immediately back off?

I though the size was off too until I looked it up, there's a "standard size" that is 20-30 lbs, and the new boy looks like he could loose 5-8 lbs comfortably. He could be a mix though, who knows.

And he doesn't back off on his own, he will stop if I say "no." He then also cowers at ny side like he's afraid of being beaten.

DirtyDirtyVagrant

I have owned three rat terriers in my lifetime and all three of them have weighed 14-17 lbs.

Did the shelter say that this dog had a history of abuse? Watch them carefully. Give the shelter dog as much love and attention as you can, and keep them separated when you're not around, if possible.

Elin

DirtyDirtyVagrant wrote: »

I have owned three rat terriers in my lifetime and all three of them have weighed 14-17 lbs.

Did the shelter say that this dog had a history of abuse? Watch them carefully. Give the shelter dog as much love and attention as you can, and keep them separated when you're not around, if possible.

The shelter didn't know anything. He was in a kill shelter and was about to be destroyed. The no kill picked him up and couldn't home him. He went to a foster home because he was doing poorly. I then got him. The foster home had cats, dogs, and kids and he did fine. Per the foster she did see what she called "protection" issues, and that may be the behavior I am seeing here. I just don't know how to address it.

I'll post a pic of him when I get home, he's a handsome boy. He's a shelter dog, so he could be a mix. I just looked a breed standards, and he conforms to the standard size. The size you indicated is called mid. I personally have only seen the toy size until now.

bowen

Sounds to me like he's being protective over you. It's probably nothing to be worried about as he's not actually being aggressive to the dog but more in that he doesn't like that the dog may be secretly trying to attack you. Which you should be concerned about because poms are fucking ninjas sometimes. You've got an awesome dog if he wants to protect you from ninjas.

Kistra

The most common issue with a dog snapping while cuddling with a person would be guarding the person. However in that case one would expect a bigger response when the pom jumped directly onto your lab and most dogs won't guard a person they have only known for 24 hours so it doesn't really sound like that is what is going on in this case.

Was the pom approaching him from the same side on the bed and on the couch? Is there any chance that the rat terrier was startled? Or can't see as well out of one eye? Or maybe has a sore leg? It might be more of an issue when he was laying down rather than standing up because he might not have felt like he could get away/turn to see what was happening.

When you say he doesn't back off on his own, what do you mean? Does the rat terrier give one snap and then continue staring at the pom? Does he continue snapping? Does he chase the pom away? Is he making contact? Is he giving any warning signs before snapping (hair standing up on neck, tensing muscles, pupil dilation, licking his lips, looking away from the pom)?

If this were my dogs I would actively work to prevent the situation from coming up for about a week and then reassess. Most dogs experience some level of stress when changing homes and will act differently for a period of time from a few days to a few months, generally with the more extreme changes resulting in longer adjustment periods. During those days I would follow this program called Leading the Dance, it is basically about building a relationship with your dog that establishes you as the leader and the source of all good things.

Most of all, do not punish this behavior. Punishing a dog that is snapping without addressing the underlying issue can result in a dog that bites without snapping first to warn the other dog away. You want to teach the dog that he doesn't have to snap, not that he isn't allowed to.

Elin

Kistra wrote: »

The most common issue with a dog snapping while cuddling with a person would be guarding the person. However in that case one would expect a bigger response when the pom jumped directly onto your lab and most dogs won't guard a person they have only known for 24 hours so it doesn't really sound like that is what is going on in this case.

Was the pom approaching him from the same side on the bed and on the couch? Is there any chance that the rat terrier was startled? Or can't see as well out of one eye? Or maybe has a sore leg? It might be more of an issue when he was laying down rather than standing up because he might not have felt like he could get away/turn to see what was happening.

When you say he doesn't back off on his own, what do you mean? Does the rat terrier give one snap and then continue staring at the pom? Does he continue snapping? Does he chase the pom away? Is he making contact? Is he giving any warning signs before snapping (hair standing up on neck, tensing muscles, pupil dilation, licking his lips, looking away from the pom)?

If this were my dogs I would actively work to prevent the situation from coming up for about a week and then reassess. Most dogs experience some level of stress when changing homes and will act differently for a period of time from a few days to a few months, generally with the more extreme changes resulting in longer adjustment periods. During those days I would follow this program called Leading the Dance, it is basically about building a relationship with your dog that establishes you as the leader and the source of all good things.

Most of all, do not punish this behavior. Punishing a dog that is snapping without addressing the underlying issue can result in a dog that bites without snapping first to warn the other dog away. You want to teach the dog that he doesn't have to snap, not that he isn't allowed to.

If my Pom walks close slowly, the new dog will curl his lip and growl. If the Pom runs up fast it goes straight to a snap. When I say he doesn't back of he goes on like he's going to savage my Pom, multiple biting swipe, growling, etc. I'm not sure if he's making true contact, my Pom has no bite makes and hasn't cried out, he just backs the fuck away fast. The rat terrier will follow him snarling and snapping as he backs off. If I say "No" in a firm voice he comes back to my side and acts like nothing happened.

It has been the same side on the couch, but I'm not sure how he was oriented on the bed. His new dog vet appointment is Monday, I'll find any health issues for sure then but I used to volunteer at the no kill I got him from, they have a vet check on every intake and they will medicate or disclose those issues. He is utd on normal shots and isn't shy about running outside with no limp or hesitation.

It's odd because I have manhandled this dog to check him for issues. I've cleaned his ears (it looked like someone shoved mud balls in there), checked for flea dirt, felt down his legs (his joints are bare from laying on the shelter floor), picked him up, rolled him over to see his belly, wiped some fur out of his eye, no reaction. He got a microchip injected, he didn't make a sound or even try to move.

Elin

Funny enough, I just read the page you linked and found I do most of that with my Pom already. A lot of It's Me or the Dog watching I think.

Kistra

Has there been any saliva on the pom? How does the pom respond? Has the rat terrier ever chased the pom off the couch? Will he stop then?

Visual defects aren't something that are checked for in a normal vet exam so I think being blind in one eye is still a possibility even if he has been checked by a vet recently. It might also just be stress. Can you keep the two dogs apart for a couple of days unless you are actively walking/treating/interacting with both of them?

dasZombie42

It sounds like the terrier is being protective of you. When he snaps or growls at your other dog you should tell him no and maybe give a little nudge, just hard enough to get his attention.

If this happens while you are giving the terrier attention or have him on your lap you should do the above and then stop giving your attention or remove him from your lap.

Remember to be consistent.

Elin

I'm not sure it's protection right now, I think it's a selfish issue. We're dogsitting for my friends as we often do. Their dog started chewing a bone that belongs to my Pom while the Rat was chewing a bully stick. All of a sudden the Rat growls, gets off the couch, walks across the room and takes the bone, walks back to the couch with it, drops it in "his spot" and goes back to chewing the bully. He repeats this 10 minutes later with a rope toy.

And this is after he plays with the neighbor dog for a good half hour, little tail stub wagging like crazy.

And as I typed this, the Pom was chewing the bully and the Rat went for him like he wanted to kill him. All chew toys are put away. I'll see how he goes over the weekend with no chews in the house at all.

Rethius

Maybe the two dogs are trying to figure out who is dominant? Best guess I can think of, since your rat terrier is trying to control the treats as well.

Casual

I'd carry on doing what you're doing. When ever you see him do it say "NO BAD!" and make it pretty clear you're telling him off. If the problem persists after doing this for a while you'll have to look into some more serious training.

Kistra

When I adopted my dog he had been on the street for a bit and had learned that he needed to fight for good things or they would go away. (yes I'm anthropomorphizing, but it is very reasonable and it is something that I have heard from other people who adopted dogs who were on the street). It went away over time as he developed a relationship with me and my husband and learned to trust that he would have a warm bed and food and chew toys tomorrow. We were lucky because we didn't have another dog at the time.

The selfishness will likely resolve over time as you build a relationship with the rat terrier and he begins to trust that he will get good things by waiting. The complication is that you don't want him to get in the habit of snapping at other dogs or stealing things from other dogs in the meantime. Try to prevent these sorts of things from happening - leash the rat terrier to your body, put up baby gates to separate them while they are chewing, sit down on the couch in such a way that there isn't room for the pom to jump up on the far side of the terrier - and I think everything will sort itself out over time if you start doing the things you are already doing with your pom with the rat terrier.

BTW, do these dogs have names? And weren't we promised pictures? :P

Elin

Thank you for your help, my husband put his foot down. He felt our Pom (Alton) was in danger and the terrier went back to the shelter today. I'm sad, but he's in no danger as it's a no kill, I just feel bad that I couldn't give a great dog a home. I honestly feel he'd be happier as an only dog though.

mts

it probably was resource guarding and its kind of easy to train out but ultimately your husband made a good call. your first dog comes first