Also what spells should trist be using? I like ghost and flash but the nerf to flash was a bit ridiculous and ghost is almost never useful, maybe ghost and cleanse or something like that?
Even with the flash nerfs the thing is still useful, so I usually still run ghost/flash as Tristana. Excepted when the other team is packing easy stuns (think Annie, Sion and Taric) where I replace one with Cleanse.
I don't know about double stacking warmogs that seems a "bit" excessive. But I did play against a vlad last night who did nothing but stack AP and he was a beast as well (But late game we were able to shut him down quick because he had no mitigation)
The double Warmogs was half a joke and half not. If you find yourself in a position where you have to tank then you do the doubles. The rest of the build is a Spirit Visage, QSS, AD defense item of your choice, and a Force of Nature.
If you are ever in a position where you have to tank as Vlad then you're solo queuing and you're doing it wrong.
Until they come out with a tank with better puns, I'm doing it right. Also, Vlad was originally suppose to be a tank so the story goes.
He is also still listed as a Tank and when I play him that's exactly the role I'm going for. He's no Rammus or Shen but he can certainly take the god damn hits and sit in the middle of the enemy team drawing fire because "oh fuck oh fuck hemoplauque transfusions make it stop make it stop "
god damn I hate it when no one initiates with you ever even when its 4v2 and then act all smug because they have less deaths than you cause they sat by towers all game
Singed is still a boss. having 5k hp, 500 ap and just being a dick to the other team is great. and the cooldown reduction on fling is actually noticeable.
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
You probably shouldn't be buying mana regen items at all with Cho'gath. Tank build is usually the way to go.
If you watch HotshotGG play Cho'gath on his stream, he'll spam scream all day in laning phase (usually doesn't bother with rupture while laning unless he's guaranteed to hit it, because at high ELO they always dodge it). The secret is Utility spec, Mp5/level yellows, and Cho'gath's passive. If you last hit every creep in a wave (which HSGG does), then it's crazy HP and MP regen.
As for late game, team fights are short enough that you won't have to worry about running out of mana (especially if you buy something like Frozen Heart which will give you some extra MP).
I wasn't aware that anyone was talking about high ELO games or building Cho'Gath as a tank. Also, Hotshotgg is apparently a raging asshole so who cares how he plays?
Oh, right, I didn't notice they asked specifically for AP cho.
As for HotshotGG, well, yah he's an asshole. Most of the high ELO players are (that's pretty common for someone whose life is centered around a videogame). I wouldn't hang out with him. But he's really good at League of Legends, so his builds are solid for the characters he plays often.
My main point was don't get Chalice on Cho'gath, because with mana regen yellows, utility spec, and last hitting (this is the important part), it's unnecessary. Also, instead of rupture, use scream to harass and last hit at the same time in laning phase.
Meister on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
My main point was don't get Chalice on Cho'gath, because with mana regen yellows, utility spec, and last hitting (this is the important part), it's unnecessary. Also, instead of rupture, use scream to harass and last hit at the same time in laning phase.
Should be noted that I'm running mostly armor yellows on him for jungling, which necessitates the Chalice.
It's still one of the best items in the game and shouldn't be discounted.
My main point was don't get Chalice on Cho'gath, because with mana regen yellows, utility spec, and last hitting (this is the important part), it's unnecessary. Also, instead of rupture, use scream to harass and last hit at the same time in laning phase.
Should be noted that I'm running mostly armor yellows on him for jungling, which necessitates the Chalice.
It's still one of the best items in the game and shouldn't be discounted.
Oh shit, jungle cho'gath.
Then yah your build may be fairly different.
In general, though, I rarely see Chalice in high elo streams outside of some special cases like Galio. Chalice just becomes redundant with runes and masteries. Maybe this is because the usual junglers at that level are warwick, shaco, amumu, etc., and they can all get by with just blue buff.
edit: I should say, though, that there's definitely room to innovate in builds, particularly for champs that aren't often played in high elo. Point in case: last night I saw a malphite who started with doran's ring and sorc boots wreck Hotshot's shit (of course the malphite went for tank items after that). Hotshot was Trynd, so it wasn't exactly a fair match-up, but still.
I was thinking about it last night and I've decided I'm going to try a tankier Tristana. Not removing her from the DPS carry role so much as adding some survivability items after my IE. More and more I've found that I'm too squishy in team fights when I get to late game, and it's frustrating that I can only poke and can't really get into the team fight and sustain my damage output.
I'm thinking I might try something like this:
Doran Blades
Boots 2
IE (standard first few items on Tristana)
Phage
one of Last Whisper/Stark's/Ghostblade/Bloodrazor/SotD (situational)
Finish Frozen Mallet
one of Thornmail/Banshee's Veil (situational, game usually won't get this far)
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
In general, though, I rarely see Chalice in high elo streams outside of some special cases like Galio. Chalice just becomes redundant with runes and masteries. Maybe this is because the usual junglers at that level are warwick, shaco, amumu, etc., and they can all get by with just blue buff.
My usual choices for Chalice heroes are Amumu (in case blue gets jacked or I die or so I can give it up if necessary), Swain (duh), and Galio (duh). Other heroes I usually use a Tear or a Soul Shroud on.
I was thinking about it last night and I've decided I'm going to try a tankier Tristana. Not removing her from the DPS carry role so much as adding some survivability items after my IE. More and more I've found that I'm too squishy in team fights when I get to late game, and it's frustrating that I can only poke and can't really get into the team fight and sustain my damage output.
Alternatively, with sufficient lifesteal and damage, if you can keep shooting that can sort of double as survivability!
My problem is usually super burst damage or stunlock so it seems like I need at least a bigger HP pool to survive that (even though I do run Cleanse sometimes it's not enough).
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I was thinking about it last night and I've decided I'm going to try a tankier Tristana. Not removing her from the DPS carry role so much as adding some survivability items after my IE. More and more I've found that I'm too squishy in team fights when I get to late game, and it's frustrating that I can only poke and can't really get into the team fight and sustain my damage output.
I'm thinking I might try something like this:
Doran Blades
Boots 2
IE (standard first few items on Tristana)
Phage
one of Last Whisper/Stark's/Ghostblade/Bloodrazor/SotD (situational)
Finish Frozen Mallet
one of Thornmail/Banshee's Veil (situational, game usually won't get this far)
Banshee's Veil is a good idea for a late game item (what usually kills a carry is CC), but not so much for Thornmail.
The reason is that Thornmail damage return is calculated before armor reduction. So if you're a high armor champ like malphite or rammus, then you could even be reflecting more damage than you're taking. Also, you'll have a lot of HP, so that's also more damage reflected.
On the other hand, as Trist you're not going to have much armor or HP, so the damage return to damage taken ratio is going to be rather small.
Also Chalice is a good item for mana-hungry tanks specifically because of the MR. I like it on Alistair as his very first item because it allows me to stay in the lane and spam his heal to kingdom come. Which, in addition to his other two abilities, makes him a fantastic pusher and support early game.
Riotplsbuffhislategamek.
Edit: I would probably only get Thornmail if they had a lot of physical melee carries who were beelining to me, and then because of the efficient armor, not the damage return.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I was thinking about it last night and I've decided I'm going to try a tankier Tristana. Not removing her from the DPS carry role so much as adding some survivability items after my IE. More and more I've found that I'm too squishy in team fights when I get to late game, and it's frustrating that I can only poke and can't really get into the team fight and sustain my damage output.
I'm thinking I might try something like this:
Doran Blades
Boots 2
IE (standard first few items on Tristana)
Phage
one of Last Whisper/Stark's/Ghostblade/Bloodrazor/SotD (situational)
Finish Frozen Mallet
one of Thornmail/Banshee's Veil (situational, game usually won't get this far)
That is about what I have been doing but really it doesn't make a huge difference unless you are trying to survive poison or some huge AoE. Trist gets worked, thats all there is to it.
"Oh shit, I walked into a 1v5 gank. A pox on all your houses! You've made worms meat of me!"
Two seconds later: Rest of team gets there, cleans up the 50% HP hemoplague victims.
If the tanks/CCers on your team, Buster shot, Rocket jump, positioning, red buff/frozen mallet kiting, and summoner spells can't keep their melee DPS away from you, then you're probably screwed anyways, and thornmail won't help.
Unless the enemy team is like all physical dps, then yah everyone should build thornmail.
Meister on
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Dac VinS-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC!Registered Userregular
I was thinking about it last night and I've decided I'm going to try a tankier Tristana. Not removing her from the DPS carry role so much as adding some survivability items after my IE. More and more I've found that I'm too squishy in team fights when I get to late game, and it's frustrating that I can only poke and can't really get into the team fight and sustain my damage output.
I'm thinking I might try something like this:
Doran Blades
Boots 2
IE (standard first few items on Tristana)
Phage
one of Last Whisper/Stark's/Ghostblade/Bloodrazor/SotD (situational)
Finish Frozen Mallet
one of Thornmail/Banshee's Veil (situational, game usually won't get this far)
I usually always get a defense item on Tristana, otherwise people just focus me down too easily. Usually it's always a Banshe's Veil (MAGES AND STUNNERS ARE THE NATURAL PREDATORS OF CARRIES) though if the enemy team comp is bad it's not rare for me to pack a thornmail for all physical comps.
edit meister stop thinking like me on thornmails
edit edit: the good thing about elementz list is that since he put sona at the top of tier 1 she'S getting banned all the time now and this is AWESOME
If the tanks/CCers on your team, Buster shot, Rocket jump, positioning, red buff/frozen mallet kiting, and summoner spells can't keep their melee DPS away from you, then you're probably screwed anyways, and thornmail won't help.
Unless the enemy team is like all physical dps, then yah everyone should build thornmail.
It depends. Many melee DPS have anti-CC/anti-slow/blink. Sometimes it's all but impossible to kite them without taking yourself out of the teamfight entirely (and even then you might not survive). Just depends on their team comp like everything. Thornmail has its place in the right (or should I say "wrong") situation.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Man, I have not lost one game as Rammus out of my last 15 games (possibly more than that). I need to get this good with all my champs.
A well played Rammus can quite literally carry the entire team on his thorny little back.
Probably not the best tank in the world, but he's damn well good. He can damage soak like a boss, catch up to running away enemies, and even taunt the opponent's carry into attacking them, he even does a good chunk of damage to boot.
Also, recently I have found I have a really hard time with Vlad, he seems to be invincible from like level 3 on or something. We had one get to level 14 while everyone else in the game was lvl 6 - it was completely insane.
Man, I have not lost one game as Rammus out of my last 15 games (possibly more than that). I need to get this good with all my champs.
A well played Rammus can quite literally carry the entire team on his thorny little back.
Probably not the best tank in the world, but he's damn well good. He can damage soak like a boss, catch up to running away enemies, and even taunt the opponent's carry into attacking them, he even does a good chunk of damage to boot.
Definitely. Probably doesn't hurt I've played Rammus more than any other champ since beta.
Nothing is a whole lot more satisfying than completely acing the other time in every way possible.
Did that one time on TT too, with 2 pubs. We went 5/0/8, 5/0/6, 5/0/3 (it's kind of small if you can't see it). Kayle stomping was such fun. And I think I really only ulted to save me once and Ryze once.
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Even with the flash nerfs the thing is still useful, so I usually still run ghost/flash as Tristana. Excepted when the other team is packing easy stuns (think Annie, Sion and Taric) where I replace one with Cleanse.
He is also still listed as a Tank and when I play him that's exactly the role I'm going for. He's no Rammus or Shen but he can certainly take the god damn hits and sit in the middle of the enemy team drawing fire because "oh fuck oh fuck hemoplauque transfusions make it stop make it stop "
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
BUY FUCKING MAGIC RESIST IF THEY ARE 5/5 MAGIC DAMAGE CHARACTERS!!!
This PSA is bought to you by a guaranteed win that we lost because people intentionally decided to play shitty. So GG.
My favorite part was the 2/7 tank with all armor items.
I'm dead serious."
However I can't help but feel smug when I get 6/0/7 on jungle Rammus.
Especially when I managed to survive one gank by Teemo with 1 hp left. Thank christ for regen items.
This. I'm really liking Sion as an AD lifestealing monster. 1v1 with only 1/4 of my hp left?
Press R
right-click
????
"You have slain an enemy!"
I've heard some people like to jungle with him, but I find his laning phase is pretty good and I'd rather be 1vs2 than being in the jungle myself.
Starcraft 2: Dangerbomb (889)
how in god's name does ashe finish a game with the fewest creep kills on either team
That's basically how I always did sion. Get executioner's calling asap to offset the enrage life lost, then stack crit/attack speed/AD
Oh, right, I didn't notice they asked specifically for AP cho.
As for HotshotGG, well, yah he's an asshole. Most of the high ELO players are (that's pretty common for someone whose life is centered around a videogame). I wouldn't hang out with him. But he's really good at League of Legends, so his builds are solid for the characters he plays often.
My main point was don't get Chalice on Cho'gath, because with mana regen yellows, utility spec, and last hitting (this is the important part), it's unnecessary. Also, instead of rupture, use scream to harass and last hit at the same time in laning phase.
Should be noted that I'm running mostly armor yellows on him for jungling, which necessitates the Chalice.
It's still one of the best items in the game and shouldn't be discounted.
Nothing is a whole lot more satisfying than completely acing the other time in every way possible.
Also lol @ Trynd on TT. So pointless.
They were calling us pussies non-stop after 10 min so fuck 'em. They didn't kill a hero, they didn't kill a tower, they got fucking worked.
Oh shit, jungle cho'gath.
Then yah your build may be fairly different.
In general, though, I rarely see Chalice in high elo streams outside of some special cases like Galio. Chalice just becomes redundant with runes and masteries. Maybe this is because the usual junglers at that level are warwick, shaco, amumu, etc., and they can all get by with just blue buff.
edit: I should say, though, that there's definitely room to innovate in builds, particularly for champs that aren't often played in high elo. Point in case: last night I saw a malphite who started with doran's ring and sorc boots wreck Hotshot's shit (of course the malphite went for tank items after that). Hotshot was Trynd, so it wasn't exactly a fair match-up, but still.
I'm thinking I might try something like this:
Doran Blades
Boots 2
IE (standard first few items on Tristana)
Phage
one of Last Whisper/Stark's/Ghostblade/Bloodrazor/SotD (situational)
Finish Frozen Mallet
one of Thornmail/Banshee's Veil (situational, game usually won't get this far)
Alternatively, with sufficient lifesteal and damage, if you can keep shooting that can sort of double as survivability!
Banshee's Veil is a good idea for a late game item (what usually kills a carry is CC), but not so much for Thornmail.
The reason is that Thornmail damage return is calculated before armor reduction. So if you're a high armor champ like malphite or rammus, then you could even be reflecting more damage than you're taking. Also, you'll have a lot of HP, so that's also more damage reflected.
On the other hand, as Trist you're not going to have much armor or HP, so the damage return to damage taken ratio is going to be rather small.
Riotplsbuffhislategamek.
Edit: I would probably only get Thornmail if they had a lot of physical melee carries who were beelining to me, and then because of the efficient armor, not the damage return.
"Oh shit, I walked into a 1v5 gank. A pox on all your houses! You've made worms meat of me!"
Two seconds later: Rest of team gets there, cleans up the 50% HP hemoplague victims.
Unless the enemy team is like all physical dps, then yah everyone should build thornmail.
I usually always get a defense item on Tristana, otherwise people just focus me down too easily. Usually it's always a Banshe's Veil (MAGES AND STUNNERS ARE THE NATURAL PREDATORS OF CARRIES) though if the enemy team comp is bad it's not rare for me to pack a thornmail for all physical comps.
edit meister stop thinking like me on thornmails
edit edit: the good thing about elementz list is that since he put sona at the top of tier 1 she'S getting banned all the time now and this is AWESOME
It depends. Many melee DPS have anti-CC/anti-slow/blink. Sometimes it's all but impossible to kite them without taking yourself out of the teamfight entirely (and even then you might not survive). Just depends on their team comp like everything. Thornmail has its place in the right (or should I say "wrong") situation.
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A well played Rammus can quite literally carry the entire team on his thorny little back.
Probably not the best tank in the world, but he's damn well good. He can damage soak like a boss, catch up to running away enemies, and even taunt the opponent's carry into attacking them, he even does a good chunk of damage to boot.
Also, recently I have found I have a really hard time with Vlad, he seems to be invincible from like level 3 on or something. We had one get to level 14 while everyone else in the game was lvl 6 - it was completely insane.
Definitely. Probably doesn't hurt I've played Rammus more than any other champ since beta.
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Are you afraid of their skill and confidence?
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Did that one time on TT too, with 2 pubs. We went 5/0/8, 5/0/6, 5/0/3 (it's kind of small if you can't see it). Kayle stomping was such fun. And I think I really only ulted to save me once and Ryze once.
Exactly!