KotOR: We Hate Taris More then Skywalkers Hate Sand!

CaptainNemo

So, KotOR was this obscure RPG made by some small Canadian studio no one ever heard of. I've heard good things, though.

Booting it up, it hasn't aged well, but the writing and voicework is still top notch. The combat is smooth, the skills are varied, and the guns are useless, clumsy, savage weapons. Everyone looks like Kryten, but once you get past that it is probably the finest WRPG of it's generation.

Couscous

KOTOR was too similar to the original trilogy. I preferred KOTOR 2 as far as plot goes.

Spoit

Kotor 2 is better.

But really, I tried playing it again a few months ago when it was $2 on steam, and just couldn't hack how horrible the PC interface was

Astale

I swear we'd better find out what happened to

Revan

in TOR or I'm going to go all pissy we didn't get KotOR 3 again.

Cantido

Ah, this was my first "western" RPG. It took me a damn long time to grasp all the stats and such.

Actually, Neverwinter Nights was my first. I only beat the first act.

-SPI-

Kotor 2 would have been better, apart from where they forgot to finish it. But then again, it wouldn't be an Obsidian game if they actually finished making it.

CaptainNemo

Honestly, I hated KotOR 2. I never felt like the group was a cohesive unit the way Revan's team was. 1 had a classic Star Wars plot, but 2 felt like a jumbled mismatch of plots. Atris vs. Traya vs. Nihilus. vs. Revan. vs. Exile vs. Jedi vs. Sith vs. Mandalorians vs. True Sith. It all felt so clunky. And then you had the eldritch abomination that goes down is a few hits.

I liked the new robes and upgrades, though.

Spoit

-SPI- wrote: »

Kotor 2 would have been better, apart from where they forgot to finish it. But then again, it wouldn't be an Obsidian game if they actually finished making it.

I thought that that confrontation at Dantooine was a fine ending.

CaptainNemo

NO EXILE YOU ARE THE NIHILUS

AND THEN EXILE WAS THE NIHILUS

Fiaryn

The ending of KOTOR 2 gave me all the resolution I felt was necessary. Your mileage may vary I guess?

It was always an inward trekking journey, as with Planescape, and the Exile found his Transcendant One and his answer.

NATIK

KOTOR 2 was my definite favorite.

It had better more complete systems, better story and more options.

Only thing it lacked was a finished ending, what was there was okay but left you feeling a little short changed. The awesomeness of the writing, especially of Kreia makes up for it though, she is brilliant to talk to.

CaptainNemo

What answer? All we learn is that we're some kind of force vampire and the Revan buggered off to the Unknown Regions to chase the Sith Emperor.

Fiaryn

CaptainNemo wrote: »

What answer? All we learn is that we're some kind of force vampire and the Revan buggered off to the Unknown Regions to chase the Sith Emperor.

I think you need to replay it, because you seem to be taking the answer as presented by the Jedi Council as the truth. Did you even listen to Kreia?

CaptainNemo

Yes. Apparently doing good is bad because it could maybe lead to bad things but being bad is also bad because it is bad.

Unless Revan did it.

Or did he?

Darlan

I'd love to see Bioware go back and release an official widescreen patch that works with the Steam version of KOTOR. I hate playing it windowed, and the community hack requires you get to get an alternative executable from less than trustworthy sites and put it in the Steam folder (which can get your account banned) and THEN get another program that fixes the hud and ugh its way too much of a headache.

And yeah, KOTOR III while I'm wishing. MMOs just aren't my bag, at least as they're designed today.

TrippyJing

I can't even get two hours into KOTOR II because of the frigging bugs.

Fiaryn

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Yes. Apparently doing good is bad because it could maybe lead to bad things but being bad is also bad because it is bad.

Unless Revan did it.

Or did he?

Being good without considering the long term consequences is just shallow feel goodness that accomplishes little to nothing in the face of an entire galaxy in need of healing. If you want to actually do "good" you have to play the long game just as much as the bad guys.

Which by the way is not related to the Exile's "answer" but you veered off onto a completely different aspect of Kreia's teachings so there ya go.

Spoit

And FWIW, Taris wasn't really that bad.

CaptainNemo

Fiaryn wrote: »

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Yes. Apparently doing good is bad because it could maybe lead to bad things but being bad is also bad because it is bad.

Unless Revan did it.

Or did he?

Being good without considering the long term consequences is just shallow feel goodness that accomplishes little to nothing in the face of an entire galaxy in need of healing. If you want to actually do "good" you have to play the long game just as much as the bad guys.

Which by the way is not related to the Exile's "answer" but you veered off onto a completely different aspect of Kreia's teachings so there ya go.

That message might be better if it wasn't coming from a Dark Lord of the Sith.

citizen059

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Yes. Apparently doing good is bad because it could maybe lead to bad things but being bad is also bad because it is bad.

Unless Revan did it.

Or did he?

Read through this if you haven't already. It explains everything.

I mean everything.

Fiaryn

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Fiaryn wrote: »

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Yes. Apparently doing good is bad because it could maybe lead to bad things but being bad is also bad because it is bad.

Unless Revan did it.

Or did he?

Being good without considering the long term consequences is just shallow feel goodness that accomplishes little to nothing in the face of an entire galaxy in need of healing. If you want to actually do "good" you have to play the long game just as much as the bad guys.

Which by the way is not related to the Exile's "answer" but you veered off onto a completely different aspect of Kreia's teachings so there ya go.

That message might be better if it wasn't coming from a Dark Lord of the Sith.

That is a hat she wore, yes.

What's your point?

Rubycat

You know how KOTOR and KOTOR II are on the backwards compatibility list for 360?.. yeah, they shouldn't be on that list..
--my poor old xbox went poop-

KOTOR was a fantastic game, even with its stupid make one choice and your instantly evil section. (some funny evil character moments though after that.)

CaptainNemo

KotOR runs fine post update.

And here's a little tip, the Sith are evil. They have to be in order to channel the Dark Side. It's why you don't see any Darths just handing out flowers and bunnies.

The Anonymous

Rubycat wrote: »

You know how KOTOR and KOTOR II are on the backwards compatibility list for 360?.. yeah, they shouldn't be on that list..

At least KOTOR II is semi-playable. KOTOR I on the 360...is not (Tatooine glitch FFFFFFFFFFFFF).

OptimusZed

I've played through both KotORs on the 360 just fine.

2 does some wierd sound things, but that's about it.

Couscous

CaptainNemo wrote: »

KotOR runs fine post update.

And here's a little tip, the Sith are evil. They have to be in order to channel the Dark Side. It's why you don't see any Darths just handing out flowers and bunnies.

What if they were evil flowers and bunnies?

Rubycat

they must have released some extra updates since the last time I tried. (before the NXE) because II ran fine until you got into combat, then it ran like mud and I had no idea what was going on as everything hopped skipped and lagged all over.

Brian Krakow

Spoit wrote: »

And FWIW, Taris wasn't really that bad.

Yeah, I actually liked Taris! And guns weren't useless!

Whenever I hear music from KotOR I still get all nostalgic. KotOR 2 really needed an ending.

NATIK

CaptainNemo wrote: »

And here's a little tip, the Sith are evil. They have to be in order to channel the Dark Side. It's why you don't see any Darths just handing out flowers and bunnies.

Afaik it's more that the Dark Side corrupts, not that you HAVE to be evil to use it, it will corrupt you into evil though.

But there are examples in Star Wars of Grey Jedi who manage to walk the path between the Dark Side and the Light Side.

That said keeping a strict balance isn't what Kreia advocated, she advocated always being aware of your actions and their long term effects. Basically to mastermind everything. She disliked the pure Dark Side Sith teachings as much as she did the pure Light Side Jedi teachings. To her they were both facets of the same futile way of doing things, focus on a short term action at the cost of the long term goal.

Couscous

She also wanted to kill the force. That is as much against the Dark Side stuff as it is against the Light Side stuff.

Aegeri

I liked the original KotoR a lot, except that you didn't start as a Jedi and couldn't get back those X class levels to put into a Jedi class . So I spend most playthroughs not leveling until I become a Jedi.

The second game I absolutely loved though. The depth of the writing was fantastic and it still makes me angry to this day they never finished the game. It just crippled what was one of the rare Starwars games I've ever seen to treat the force in an actually complex manner (Not strict black or white).

However, the original has the best moment ever when I finally was able to kill Carth. That felt so good.

UnbreakableVow

OptimusZed wrote: »

I've played through both KotORs on the 360 just fine.

How

How did the audio glitches not make you kill everyone in a five-mile radius

Why aren't you in prison for multiple homicides

Aegeri

How do you know he didn't play through the games from being in prison already?

Fiaryn

CaptainNemo wrote: »

KotOR runs fine post update.

And here's a little tip, the Sith are evil. They have to be in order to channel the Dark Side. It's why you don't see any Darths just handing out flowers and bunnies.

What I was trying to get you to process is that Kreia is not a Sith.

It's a useful role for manipulating events. She no more operates under their philosophy nor furthers their goals than you or I. Due in no small part to things like

Couscous wrote: »

She also wanted to kill the force. That is as much against the Dark Side stuff as it is against the Light Side stuff.

And the fact that destroying the Jedi Council was the exact opposite of her goal. Which is why she berates you for being a retard if you go the full Dark Side route.

Mr. Pokeylope

I really enjoyed the first game but the second was so disappointing. The first part was worst than taris, the middle was ok and the whole ending section was terrible.

UnbreakableVow

Also, 360 issues aside, this game holds a special place in my heart

It was my first Western RPG

I bought an OXbox specifically for it (and it ended up being the only exclusive game I dug), with my very first tax return

So, so good

Shame about the sequel

Olivaw

I prefer KotOR 1 to KotOR 2 for a number of reasons

1) feels more Star Wars-y
2) has an ending
3) no bullshit "favor" system
4) Jolee Bindo

Couscous

Olivaw wrote: »

I prefer KotOR 1 to KotOR 2 for a number of reasons

1) feels more Star Wars-y

Funny, that is why I prefer KOTOR 2.

Olivaw

I don't know

Sometimes, on occasion, I think that KotOR 2 misses the point of Star Wars

Adding depth to the Force and treating it beyond simple black and white/light and dark/good and evil is not what swashbuckling space fantasy is all about

But I sort of like what they did with the Exile and Revan's character through that sequel, even if I hated Kreia and most of the supporting characters

So I don't really know how I feel about it I guess

Fiaryn

KOTOR 2 is pretty much tailor made for people who hate Star Wars in execution but like Star Wars conceptually.

Aegeri

Gaffi sticks blocking lightsabers made me rage so hard in KotoR.

Rage.

Edit: You know, that's a really valid point Olivaw.