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Online school for Game Programming?
Sikarian
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm trying to find a good school I can apply to for a bachelors preferably in game programming. I know there's plenty of in-house schools, but I want one I can take online simply for ease of life.
Perfect example is Full Sail. I've wanted to go there, but I just can't afford to move to Florida and get an apartment there during the time at school.
If I found an online one, I could take my classes living from where I am, get/keep job, etc.
I'm looking for a degree thats more oriented into actual programming. C++, AI, graphics, etc. Anyone have any ideas? Anything recommended? I've seen lots of commercials and searching for "game programming school" in google yields tons of results, and who knows if any are actually any good or just scams.
Hopefully you guys do
I've looked into some local schools like UofL, UK, WKU, Sullivan, J.B Speed, and none of them offer anything near what I want. They do basic computer science, but that's it
Perfect example is Full Sail. I've wanted to go there, but I just can't afford to move to Florida and get an apartment there during the time at school.
If I found an online one, I could take my classes living from where I am, get/keep job, etc.
I'm looking for a degree thats more oriented into actual programming. C++, AI, graphics, etc. Anyone have any ideas? Anything recommended? I've seen lots of commercials and searching for "game programming school" in google yields tons of results, and who knows if any are actually any good or just scams.
Hopefully you guys do
I've looked into some local schools like UofL, UK, WKU, Sullivan, J.B Speed, and none of them offer anything near what I want. They do basic computer science, but that's it
Sikarian on
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Never take online degrees unless it's through a local university like that. Largest waste of money in the history of large wastes of money.
Game programming is a subset of that.
or do a minor in math at the same time.
You may have a more realistic outlook than you're getting across, but I sees what I sees.
And I've looked at local schools, nothing offers anything. This is a hospital/farming community, and as such the degree programs offered are related.
Whoever told you that is incredibly wrong.
Whoever told you those things was wrong, like Doc said. Unless you looked at ITT tech, which, stay away.
So it would appear all the local schools are wrong. Because this is what I see when I look up their undergraduate programs for Bachelors of Science in Computer Engineering and Computer Science.
Notably:
Ethical and Law
Engineering Economic Analysis
Speech Communication/Business and Professional Speaking
History Civilizations I, II
Fundamentals of Digital Electronics
Diff. Equations for Engineers
Introduction to Electrical Engineering
General Chemistry I
Introduction to Chemical Analysis I
Computer Networking
Introduction to Databases
And that's from one school.
To me, most of that is all wasted credits and wasted money.
While I understand some of that is significant in programming, I am looking for more of a tech school that has more specialized and program-oriented classes, as opposed to just "Lets throw in some computer courses".
User Interface Design and Development
Algorithms Analysis
Software Engineering
3 semesters of calc, discrete mathematics, sets and logic, stats, and a bunch of other courses
Artificial Intelligence
2 semesters of graphics courses
And I got on board with a funded research project where we were matching up satellite photos with map data. I learned a ridiculous amount about image analysis and best-match algorithms there.
I'm assuming that the course list you have there is from Louisville, since I glanced at their catalog and it's pretty terrible. Just course numbers and no course descriptions. Take a look at the University of Kentucky's requirements for a BS of Computer Science. It looks much closer to what my program was like and it gives you the option to take graphics, AI, and other courses that might pertain to what you want to do as electives.
Any good undergraduate program in Computer Science/Programming is going to require those courses as part of the degree.
Those are requirements for any accredited computer science program.
But, as has been said, a good basis in the basics is far more useful than just having direct x and whatnot shown to you. What you want is a true CS and programming degree, not a more generic Information Systems or the like type degree. As to the program you listed some classes from, have you looked to see what classes you will be taking in your 3rd and 4th years? The first 2 years are always lots of stupid bs.
That's not strictly true. The University of Waterloo (which is a great CS school) doesn't require networking or databases in order to graduate, although they are certainly options. It does, however, require a lot of courses that are more on the theoretical side of things (like theory of computation, algorithms and data structures courses, etc.). That said, those things are not bad ideas to take, for anyone.
It's just programming dude. And you need years of experience before you can start doing games professionally (read: not for free).
You need a good CompSci major with some math courses, and patience and/or free time.
Not the easiest/fastest path, but definitely the clearest.
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
Tools. Basically CAD Tools for the designers.
It's so easy to get into games now by way of mobile/social that it pays to just pay your dues in the field, learn legit programming skills, and then break into mobile where one programmer and two artists can make a hit inside of a month.
Ask how many Full Sail graduates are making 8/hr at EA Orlando testing Nascar 2010 and dropping 400/month+ on school loan payments.
The answer is more than you'd think.
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
I think the simplest argument for this is to take a look at MIT's humanities and sciences requirements. If providing a holistic education wasn't producing results MIT wouldn't consider it in its EECS mission.
http://web.mit.edu/catalog/overv.chap3-gir.html#sr
http://web.mit.edu/catalog/degre.engin.ch6.html
If all you want is a stunted trade-school approach to becoming proficient in C++, you should just be able to teach yourself out of a book. Full Sail, Digipen and their ilk are fundamentally trade schools. That's fine, but the trend has been, and will probably be for some time, that fully-equipped learners and self-taught prodigies are going to pip trade schools grads every time.
Let alone the fact that to work and function in the real world, you need to be able to communicate and explain ideas to a lot of constituents - depending on what you're doing, that can be bosses, subordinates, VC types, your internal financial people, your internal management people, customers, whatever. Nothing in a CS class will teach you that.
That stuff IS important. Computer Networking teaches you the basics of how computer networks work and how to write elementary programs for them. That knowledge is directly applicable to game development if you're working on the network code, or if you just need to understand concepts that might effect online play, like stochastic queuing (of, say, user input events). Ditto for databases. Every MMO, in addition to requiring a knowledge of computer networks, also requires knowledge of database development, because it is, at its core, a huge database driven application. Similarly, any kind of 3D programming is going to build on knowledge that you acquire in mathematics courses. Even stuff like Electrical Engineering is useful, because that's often where you're exposed to concepts like assembly language. Somebody at the game company of your choice is writing assembly language code write now, optimizing it to perform on a given platform.
I am going to echo everyone else's advice - go to a real university and get a real CS degree if you are interested in this field. This isn't just because of the very practical reasons I listed above. In addition to those, you GREATLY improve your chances of getting hired by a game studio if you have a real degree. This is doubly true if you have a real degree that has a co-op education program. Lots of people get their foot in the door that way, and game companies are often eager to hire co-op students due to tax benefits. Further to that, the stuff that you would learn from a dedicated game programming course is often something you could cover as part of a self-directed study (as credit toward your degree) or with a few choice electives, either at your university or another which lets you take the courses online and transfer them in. That sort of thing is very common. On top of that, if you get hired, the video game company may well train you anyway. EA, where I started, has an in house training programming called "EA University" that will get you up to speed on what you need to know. You're required to take it, you get paid to take it, and they provide ongoing education. Most major studios have similar things, though perhaps not as formal.
Finally, there's also another great reason to get a traditional CS degree. "Game programming" courses are expensive. Even if you do get hired and work in the industry, the average length of a career in video game programming is about five years. That's based on the industry's own research. You might think you'll love the job, whatever. I will tell you, from personal experience, the situation is very different when you're on your six month of 80 hour a week crunch time and your spouse or significant other is threatening to leave you stay on for another project. A traditional CS degree makes you employable in lots of places other than video games and opens the door to other educational opportunities. I'm looking at getting out of programming entirely and doing my MBA and Chartered Financial Analyst designation, for example, and neither of those would be possible without a degree.
Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
You'll also want to work on some mods, mobile games, etc. if you want to be able to get a job right after graduation.
Bachelor of Science in Computer Engineering and Computer Science
Western Kentucky Major in Computer Science
Sullivans Assocaite in CS consists of the following classes:
Information Processing
Introduction to Programming
Computer Concepts
Database Applications
Telecommunications and Networking
Database Design
OS Troubleshooting
Hardware Troubleshooting
Website Design
Visual Programming
Business Organization and Management
Principles of Accounting I
Keyboarding Essentials (wut)
Professional Development
ENG100/101 or 102
Information Literacy
College Math
College Algebra.
Sullivan doesn't seem nearly as... good.
and University of Kentucky offers the following in pdf format herpderp if anyone feels up for loading a 1 page pdf.
There are no other schools nearby that offer computer anything. I'm obviously not asking someone to pick a school for me, but if someone more knowledgeable wants to look and see which program looks like it would be the most comprehensive and fufilling maybe?
All I've ever been told is that a Computer Science degree is worth about as much as an Art degree, and that CS majors just end up working at fast food for their whole life
That is absolute bullshit and whoever told you that is an idiot. CS has one of the highest rates of jobs after graduation and one of the highest salaries after graduation.
What you want to do is look at accreditation and reviews for the programs you're looking at. It's hard to judge a program from a course list.
This is one of the least true statements I have ever read. Whoever you've been asking before coming here, you need to write them off as either a terribly unreliable resource or downright bad person. A degree in CS can get you a job with just about any company that uses computers, especially if they are heavy in the programming department.
It's time to get out of Kentucky.
Seriously though, getting a job with a CS degree right now? Pretty shitty. Getting a job with almost any other degree? Even shittier.
That said, I did look at UK's curriculum and it seems like exactly what you need.
Yes, there are going to be a few classes in there that aren't exactly related to your field. But that's college, and, speaking from experience, those classes usually end up being good at just overall expanding your mind. You don't want to be a fachidiot (people who only know about their specific subject).
It also seems like you get a good bit of leeway into course selection in your senior and junior years. At a large school like UK, that can mean independent studies or smaller, more focused classes that very well could be game design classes.
Talk to professors maybe.
Also, how old are you? Have you been to college before? Do you have a job at the moment? Would you keep it if you started school?
I had been planning on going into the Army, but if I get this college thing sorted out and go with it, I'd have to find a job to pay for tuition.
Understanding database design is pretty damn useful for understanding how Video Games work.
And comparing CS to an art degree is just... wrong. Either an art degree from this school is really gangster, or they have a very shitty CS program.
1. Fund an education
2. Get some structure in your life
Not to extrapolate, but if you're 25 and currently basically unemployed, a bit of structure could do you some good.
Also, not to extrapolate again, but I've noticed a lot of people who want to get into game design are just people who don't know what they want to do with themselves, say "Hey, I like playing video games", so they try to get into that. I'm not saying it's you, but maybe you could put more serious thought into what you want to do with yourself.
OK, I definitely did way too much extrapolating up there, but you get the idea.
Computer Science is pretty much one of the best degrees to get from a job market point of view, up there with engineering.
Good computer science programs will be heavy on things like data structures, algorithms, linear algebra, discrete math, statistics and contain a side-helping of things like differential equations and physics.
Someone mentioned Waterloo which is a Canadian school. Consider checking it out - it's the best school in Canada for certain types of CS (which puts it above anything but top tier U.S. schools), it's got a coop program, and it's international student prices are extremely competitive with US universities. It's still a fair bit of money though.
Hah, I just checked out the Waterloo international requirements for application for the Computer Science portion. Require AP Calculus in high school.
My high school didn't even offer calc. Stupid redneck schools.
I asked around some people I knew, found another firefighter who actually went to UofL for their CECS degree and said it was amazing. Hard four years including classes every summer, but said it was a really good program. I might have a look at that
You might not need to work as much as you think. For a 25 year old making little money, you'll probably get something out of a FAFSA (like a Pell Grant, which gives something like $5000 a year)
Also, since you mention the Army, ROTC loves Computer Science majors. I know at this point, my brother makes money going to school (Tuition/books paid from ROTC + $450/month stipent from ROTC + ~$5000 Pell Grant + ~$4000 smart grant)
They don't care about specific requirements (I know someone who got into Waterloo CS with basically a GED), especially if you're older.
There's definitely something to be said for actually attending a physical university/college. You'll get immersed in your subject and find out if it's really want you want to do.
But yeah, CS is one of THE most in-demand degrees right now. It has some of the highest starting salaries of any field.
I know exactly one CS graduate who had something like that happen, and that person had other issues that would have effected any job. For comparison's sake, my school (which is a decent Canadian university, but MIT it is not) had something like 90% of CS grads working in the field within 6 months of graduation. I had a 3.5 GPA when I graduated and I was recruited by EA before graduating and paid to relocate to the other side of the country with a starting salary over $50 000.
Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
Further to this - I'm Canadian so my knowledge of the US military may be a bit off (it's third hand as I have a lot of friends in the Canadian Forces), but one thing that is a golden ticket for CS grads/programmers is a security clearance. There is even a tie-in with games, here, as the American military develops a lot of "serious games" for training purposes.
Not sure of your finances, or even if this is helpful, but you also might want to look at applying to a school in an area with a lot of game studios. That will increase your chances of getting a co-op placement at one, and since those are paid, it might offset increased costs associated with going out of state.
Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
I'm a Chemical Engineer, which is one of the supposedly most stable, well paying, in-demand things. Internship prospects were very difficult. Out of ~60 in my class, I only knew of 1/3 or so (1/2 if we want to be generous) that had jobs lined up coming out or very soon after.
I know a lot of CompSci guys, a degree which I was also told four years ago was a dime a dozen and a flooded market. Almost every single one had a decent internship and a job very soon after college. I don't know all of their salaries, but we're talking some in the $70-80k range right off the bat.
You need to never listen to that person again.
I think the "CS majors are done" talk came around in 2000-ish when the dot-com bubble burst and everyone assumed there would be way too many programmers around. What people fail to realize is that more and more companies base their day-to-day operations on machines, and someone needs to tell those machines what to do.
Software architect is the top job, but it really depends on your specialty! I have an automatic job for anyone and everyone with a specific talent set, but they're few and far between. Being familiar with the right software market is key!