Chicken Broth spoiled?

Darkewolfe

Right, usually the advice we have in these threads is, "Toss it, it's not worth it for a meal." This advice is not applicable, as about half of the Thanksgiving meal is at risk.

I have some "Pacific Natural Foods Organic Free Range Chicken Broth," the kind that comes in a box and doesn't have to be refrigerated when unopened. The instructions say "refrigerate once opened and use within 7-10 days" One of the packages accidentally got half used about three weeks ago and put back into the cupboard, and was then used in two recipes today. Both of the recipes boiled the broth and have them cooked in the oven for 45 minutes at 325 degrees. The rest of the broth did not have a foul odor, and did not appear to be different from the kind in the box in any way. We didn't realize our mistake until just now. Is this food potentially unsafe to eat, or just potentially ill-flavored?

ronya

I'd eat it, to be sure. What's the weather like in your area - damp? And is anyone at dinner likely to, um, die if they have a stomach upset?

Darkewolfe

Well, I ended up tossing the bread dressing (stuffing) because it won't be THAT miserable to make new dressing. My girlfriend's family "chicken and dressing" dish we decided to risk it on. We only used about a quarter cup of chicken broth in it, and I'll just make sure it hits 165 degrees internally before we pull it.

Mojo_Jojo

Three weeks at room temperature and it should have been a glorious forest of mould.

Sheep

The only problem you'd have to worry about is whether the fat in the stock spoiled. If it wasn't rank in smell then you're probably on the safe side. You can always do a taste test before hand. Eat a little bit of what used the most of the broth an hour or so before serving and if you feel fine then it's good.

Darkewolfe

Yeah, that's what we're doing. I looked at the ingredients of this stuff, and it's at best 1% chicken anyway. It's mostly cane sugar juice and "chicken flavoring."

Buttcleft

Mojo_Jojo wrote: »

Three weeks at room temperature and it should have been a glorious forest of mould.

Especially considering it was organic

Druhim

I wouldn't risk it. But it sounds like you're going to eat it anyway. At this point you're trying to find rationalizations for why it's ok to eat it instead of acknowledging people may get sick. Mold isn't the issue necessarily, bacteria and their waste products are.

Glirk Dient

If you cooked it at that temp and baked it for that long that will kill off most germs. I would say its fine to eat. I would be concerned about the taste. The broth might have been turned a bit sour so check how things taste. If it tastes fine go with it.

proXimity

With that much cooking at those temperatures, it'll be fine health-wise, but the flavor may be a bit off.

Druhim

It's not about just killing off the bacteria when something's been sitting at room temp for 3 weeks.

Wikipedia wrote:

Exotoxins

In addition to disease caused by direct bacterial infection, some foodborne illnesses are caused by exotoxins which are excreted by the cell as the bacterium grows. Exotoxins can produce illness even when the microbes that produced them have been killed. Symptoms typically appear after 1–6 hours depending on the amount of toxin ingested.

* Clostridium botulinum
* Clostridium perfringens
* Staphylococcus aureus
* Bacillus cereus

For example Staphylococcus aureus produces a toxin that causes intense vomiting. The rare but potentially deadly disease botulism occurs when the anaerobic bacterium Clostridium botulinum grows in improperly canned low-acid foods and produces botulin, a powerful paralytic toxin.

Pseudoalteromonas tetraodonis, certain species of Pseudomonas and Vibrio, and some other bacteria, produce the lethal tetrodotoxin, which is present in the tissues of some living animal species rather than being a product of decomposition.

Again, it's been sitting for three weeks. That's plenty of time for bacteria to secrete all sorts of nasty waste products that can fuck you up. DO NOT RISK IT.

Darkewolfe

Well, as a report, we've now gone about 9 hours since the first person started eating the dish, and six people ate portions about three hours ago. To clarify, though, I tossed the dish that used the broth in large portion, the only dish that had it still only had about 3 tablespoons of the broth per serving. So far no ill effect. Thanks for the advice!

Also, this brand if broth can be confirmed as not really very chickeny, I guess.

Trillian

Druhim wrote: »

It's not about just killing off the bacteria when something's been sitting at room temp for 3 weeks.

Wikipedia wrote:

Exotoxins

In addition to disease caused by direct bacterial infection, some foodborne illnesses are caused by exotoxins which are excreted by the cell as the bacterium grows. Exotoxins can produce illness even when the microbes that produced them have been killed. Symptoms typically appear after 1–6 hours depending on the amount of toxin ingested.

* Clostridium botulinum
* Clostridium perfringens
* Staphylococcus aureus
* Bacillus cereus

For example Staphylococcus aureus produces a toxin that causes intense vomiting. The rare but potentially deadly disease botulism occurs when the anaerobic bacterium Clostridium botulinum grows in improperly canned low-acid foods and produces botulin, a powerful paralytic toxin.

Pseudoalteromonas tetraodonis, certain species of Pseudomonas and Vibrio, and some other bacteria, produce the lethal tetrodotoxin, which is present in the tissues of some living animal species rather than being a product of decomposition.

Again, it's been sitting for three weeks. That's plenty of time for bacteria to secrete all sorts of nasty waste products that can fuck you up. DO NOT RISK IT.

The exotoxins produced by all species of microbes except Staphylococcus aureus are heat sensitive - they will degrade when cooked as the proteins denature. S. aureus produces a heat stable exotoxin that causes intense bloody diarrhea, stomach cramps and can lead to kidney failure and death in some cases. S. aureus can also surivive in high high salt concentrations, like in chicken broth, which would normally knock out other bacteria species. You can't see it, and you can't taste it, but the effects are unmistakable.

I wouldn't eat it.

And since you already ate it, wait 24-36 hours to see if you're really in the clear.

ceres

I know someone who ate a turkey that had been left out a little too long prior to cooking, and she (and everyone else who attended that get-together) ended up very sick about 24 hours later. The turkey was cooked through - it was most likely an exotoxin that was the culprit.

It's probably fine, but definitely keep an eye out.

Kakodaimonos

At least you did this with an aseptic packaged broth. Those are run through an ultra-high pasteurization process so they can be stored at room temperature. So you have better odds as long as you didn't cross contaminate the broth. I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's not like you ate homemade mayonnaise left out in the sun for 6 hours.

If you do get sick, I wouldn't wait to go see a doctor though.

Trillian

I dunno, Staph can grow pretty much anywhere, and it's really populous on the skin. The fact that someone had to open the broth probably contaminated the spout with staph. Whether it was pathogenic staph or nonpathogenic , it likely grew and got all over the inside of the container. If it was pathogenic, the next 12 hours should tell the tale.

OnTheLastCastle

Let us know how this goes. I'm really interested and it'll come in handy in the future...

Good luck!

Druhim

I'd note that even if no one got food poisoning from this (which I certainly hope remains the case!), no one should take this as an example of how it's ok to consume improperly stored food like Castle is suggesting. We're talking about a risk here, not a certainty. It's certainly possible to eat improperly stored food that may be contaminated, but it's risky. Unnecessarily so. The outcome of this whole situation doesn't change that at all.

OnTheLastCastle

Druhim wrote: »

I'd note that even if no one got food poisoning from this (which I certainly hope remains the case!), no one should take this as an example of how it's ok to consume improperly stored food like Castle is suggesting. We're talking about a risk here, not a certainty. It's certainly possible to eat improperly stored food that may be contaminated, but it's risky. Unnecessarily so. The outcome of this whole situation doesn't change that at all.

Oh, ha, no, I'd never eat the food. Under any circumstances... even if I had to ruin 100 orphans Thanksgiving dinners. I know others will though!

I'm just interested in the outcome because I know someday it'll come up and I'll give them that anecdote but not risk my stomach. I didn't know about exotoxins before this thread!

So, yeah, not advocating eating food stored improperly or using anecdotal advice. THOUGH most expiration dates on cans/non-perishable items are actually 'best if used by' dates and not all that indicative of if it is harmful or not IF UNOPENED. That's why there's an expiration date on my freaking vitamins.

edit: And I just watched an episode of Hoarders with someone that would put this to shame. *shudder*

edit2: I know the best if used by thing because I've often wondered how many years in the future I could eat Campbell's soup if there was an apocalypse. I've been led to believe the answer is a really long freaking time. Also Esh asked this question about some tuna a month or so ago.

Druhim

Ah, sorry I misunderstood your previous post. :P

OnTheLastCastle

Druhim wrote: »

Ah, sorry I misunderstood your previous post. :P

S'all good. I will totally have friends asking me if something is okay to eat. I'll say I won't eat it but... well... and they'll eat it anyway.

Darkewolfe

No one got sick at all, just for the folks who wanted to know. Thanks.