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Atheists: Please be quiet

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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    so you can't call yourself a Democrat unless you financially contribute to the DNC and believe every single thing the current leadership of the DNC believes, right guys

    right

    Pony on
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    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Raern wrote: »
    dojango wrote: »
    Well, to be fair to Jesus, a lot of the catholic doctrine about "virgin birth" and "son of god" was cooked up after his death. My gut feeling is that the early church fathers did this to better appeal to a Greco/Roman audience, since a lot of their heroes and great figures were the sons of gods... and the new religion absorbed that concept as it was spreading throughout the Roman empire.

    Do you have any references for the claim that it was 'cooked up' after Jesus died? Sounds like something you're just making up.

    There's a podcast of a class taught by a professor in . . . Toronto I think . . . that I listened too a year ago. You can find it on iTunes if you look up "religions of the ancient mediterranean."

    It was almost entirely about the first two centuries of Christianity.

    I don't think it really firmly backs up dojango, and unless he has some special education I'm not sure why his gut feeling is supposed to be worth bringing up, but it was very detailed and interesting.

    Speaker on
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    ACSISACSIS Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Raern wrote: »
    dojango wrote: »
    Well, to be fair to Jesus, a lot of the catholic doctrine about "virgin birth" and "son of god" was cooked up after his death. My gut feeling is that the early church fathers did this to better appeal to a Greco/Roman audience, since a lot of their heroes and great figures were the sons of gods... and the new religion absorbed that concept as it was spreading throughout the Roman empire.

    Do you have any references for the claim that it was 'cooked up' after Jesus died? Sounds like something you're just making up.

    In-vitro-Fertilisation... maybe.
    After all... we are talking about a god as a being not orginating from this world, no?

    Certainly Jesus was a teacher...

    A story being told over and over again in many cultures, beings from somewhere else teaching humanity.

    We educated apes, in some cases quite succesfully, but only single beings. I wonder what happens if we educate them to teach other apes...

    ACSIS on
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    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Really?

    von Daniken?

    Speaker on
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    RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I've never heard someone venture that Jesus of Nazareth was taught by aliens, and was one of many prophets instructed by enlightened beings. Very cool.

    Robman on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Robman wrote: »
    It's so special when a bunch of people start ripping on the Catholics saying that unless you adhere to X, Y and Z parameters arbitrarily selected by a non-Catholic, they're a fake Catholic. Catholicism is more about the rituals and lifestyle then actual belief, like Judaism.

    Also, some of the best people in this world are Catholic missionaries working in Africa, and the Catholic hospitals that operate in the developing world. It's just so fucking hilarious when the American Atheists who cannot conceive that a world exists beyond the lower 48 ignore how the Catholic church stocks hospitals around the world that wouldn't otherwise exist.

    Is there an ingrained problem with shuffling about the pedophiles in the Church? Yes. Are most priests Pedophiles? No. Why don't you go around and actually walk into church and disrupt the services, informing the people that their Priest is a pedophile? I mean if you actually believe this shit, then how can you justify sitting around on your ass posting your snide comments on an internet forum?

    Oh but having a real effect is too much work, and it's too risky, I get it. It's fun to lack any conviction in your cause.
    We're talking about the Catholic hospitals that refuse to give out information on life-saving abortions, and tell people that using birth control means that they're going to hell, right? The one that tells people that God wants them to have a ridiculous number of children, whether or not they can afford them?

    I mean, I'm not going to deny that the Church has done a lot of good things, but they've also done an awful lot of bad things, and the Church of today has done pretty much everything in their power to spread AIDS around the world as much as possible.

    And I don't go around disrupting Catholic services because it wouldn't actually convert anyone; if anything, it would just make them hold to their beliefs even stronger, and increase the persecution complex that Christians in this country have, neither of which is productive.

    Thanatos on
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    sidhaethesidhaethe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Robman wrote: »
    It's so special when a bunch of people start ripping on the Catholics saying that unless you adhere to X, Y and Z parameters arbitrarily selected by a non-Catholic, they're a fake Catholic. Catholicism is more about the rituals and lifestyle then actual belief, like Judaism.

    Also, some of the best people in this world are Catholic missionaries working in Africa, and the Catholic hospitals that operate in the developing world. It's just so fucking hilarious when the American Atheists who cannot conceive that a world exists beyond the lower 48 ignore how the Catholic church stocks hospitals around the world that wouldn't otherwise exist.

    Is there an ingrained problem with shuffling about the pedophiles in the Church? Yes. Are most priests Pedophiles? No. Why don't you go around and actually walk into church and disrupt the services, informing the people that their Priest is a pedophile? I mean if you actually believe this shit, then how can you justify sitting around on your ass posting your snide comments on an internet forum?

    Oh but having a real effect is too much work, and it's too risky, I get it. It's fun to lack any conviction in your cause.

    This is such a strange post. Do you think there are no atheists here who are former Catholics? I was baptized Catholic, went to Catholic school, and went through RCIA (because I was not confirmed at 13 with the rest of my classmates).

    I have a Catholic father whose wife had to vow upon marriage that her children would be raised Catholic; a Catholic father who still calls and considers himself Catholic despite the fact that he believes the Pope is full of shit (his words), and doesn't attend Mass, let alone confession. He's still going to have a Catholic funeral, and expects me to pull the requisite strings to make it happen when the time comes.

    I know the rules as well as any currently practicing Catholic ought to, and no atheist posting here so far really has it wrong.

    sidhaethe on
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    RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    But if you believe that the Priest is most certainly a pedophile, or that he's funneling the church funds to shuffle about pedophiles, then you would be compelled to act yes?

    Also most Catholic hospitals just quietly do the life-saving abortions and bury the paperwork on the procedure. The massive disconnect between the Catholic church on the ground and the Vatican cannot be emphasized enough.

    Robman on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Robman wrote: »
    Also, some of the best people in this world are Catholic missionaries working in Africa, and the Catholic hospitals that operate in the developing world. It's just so fucking hilarious when the American Atheists who cannot conceive that a world exists beyond the lower 48 ignore how the Catholic church stocks hospitals around the world that wouldn't otherwise exist.

    The Catholic Church doesn't have a monopoly on charitable works, guy. There are legion Protestant, non-Christian, and secular charities working around the globe, too.

    Though the Catholic Church does seem to have the cutting edge on things like promoting dangerous health practices to uneducated populations, selectively giving aid, reinforcing poverty-inducing lifestyle choices, and using things like health and medicine as soapboxes for proselytizing.

    Plus Catholic guilt!

    Atomika on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Pony wrote: »
    so you can't call yourself a Democrat unless you financially contribute to the DNC and believe every single thing the current leadership of the DNC believes, right guys

    right
    A political party is not a religion. There are two effective political parties in the U.S. right now: the Democrats and the Republicans. You have to choose the better of the two if you want to have any sort of effect. There are probably hundreds of Christian denominations in the U.S. right now, to the point where you can basically pick and choose which things you subscribe to, or elect to not subscribe to one at all.

    The chairman of the DNC is not considered infallible; their is all sorts of input from all over the place as to what the Democratic party platform will be. Even within the party, there are all sorts of things you can believe and the party will still consider you a Democrat.

    You cannot be a Catholic and perform an abortion on a fetus that isn't viable in order to save a woman's life and still be considered a Catholic; it just doesn't work that way.

    So, mainly what I'm saying is that your analogy here is completely fallacious.

    Thanatos on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Robman wrote: »
    But if you believe that the Priest is most certainly a pedophile, or that he's funneling the church funds to shuffle about pedophiles, then you would be compelled to act yes?

    What are you on about?

    I thought O.J. was guilty, but that doesn't mean I busted up into Brentwood lookin' for justice.

    Atomika on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Robman wrote: »
    But if you believe that the Priest is most certainly a pedophile, or that he's funneling the church funds to shuffle about pedophiles, then you would be compelled to act yes?
    If I had evidence to that effect, then yes, I would be compelled to go to the police and the media with it. There's not really anything I could do other than that that would help; I could try interrupting services, but that would just get me arrested, and again feed into the Christian persecution complex.

    I'll tell you what: you give me evidence that a Catholic priest is a pedophile, and I'll call the cops on him, and present them with the evidence. Sound fair?

    Thanatos on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited January 2011
    It seems we're no longer talking about atheists and whether they should be quiet.

    It seems this thread's time has come.

    ElJeffe on
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