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Fingering mice
Drez
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So, on impulse, I ordered the Razer Copperhead Anarchy Red 2000dpi Laser Gaming Mouse from the wootoff going on. From what I'd read, this mouse is small and expects you to adopt the whole "fingertip" control method of mouse aiming.
Anyone have any experience with this mouse? For 40 bucks shipped it seemed like a good deal. I like Logitech - I'm currently using the MX518 - but the right mouse button keeps doing this weird clicky thing. It functions properly but the way the plastic hits the inside just drives me nuts. I can fix it, but having to do that bi-weekly gets annoying.
Anyway, it seems like mice are going toward this fingertip-touch aiming instead of the old deathgrip style. Has anyone made this leap...any thoughts? I feel like I'm entering a new stage of my life as a gamer and I want to know what this wonderful new world holds for me.
Anyone have any experience with this mouse? For 40 bucks shipped it seemed like a good deal. I like Logitech - I'm currently using the MX518 - but the right mouse button keeps doing this weird clicky thing. It functions properly but the way the plastic hits the inside just drives me nuts. I can fix it, but having to do that bi-weekly gets annoying.
Anyway, it seems like mice are going toward this fingertip-touch aiming instead of the old deathgrip style. Has anyone made this leap...any thoughts? I feel like I'm entering a new stage of my life as a gamer and I want to know what this wonderful new world holds for me.
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EDIT: A friend of mine has that mouse in Florida, and he says it's awesome. I've kind of had a Logitech optical mouse for about five years now, and I'm content with it.
If I try to use it like a regular mouse (full palm, etc) I end up covering the whole mouse and nailing the side buttons unintentionally.
I can see why some people like it, but I think I would have prefered the logitech.
So I might actually not desk drawer one of their products, bring on the Death Adder (if only newegg had it in stock).
As for finger vs open hand.
Back in the day all mice were finger mice. You don't get any more control with it, it's just a difference in comfort. It also depends on how you hold your arm and if you aim with the wrist or your arm.
For sheer consistancy most "pro/competitive FPS" gamers tend to aim with their arm on a low sense. Which greatly favors the microsoft/logitech shape and LED based mice. It's up to you if these means anything or not, and it should be taken with a grain of salt since the same thing doesn't work for everyone.
The biggest drawback I've found with finger based aiming is that it often boils down to high sense snap shots, which exactly what you don't want to be doing in a fast game of Unreal or Quake 1v1, and since that's what I play it's just not for me.
More of an inbetween thing, in my case. I rest my hand on it, but pretty much only move my wrist.
a large part of hand size issues can be fixed by a proper mouse pad. I have large hands and can cope with small mice by letting my thumb/pinky rest on the mouse. It gives you more control with a cloth pad, but is a pain in the ass with glass/plastics
Are you talking to the mouse?
And I just realised that I use fingertip control more often than not, and I didn't even notice until you said something about it. I think this mouse just makes you do it naturally. It'll feel really odd to you at first, as it did to me, but it's an awesome mouse.
I've been using my fingertips since Starcraft, I think.
Now I understand why some people think Logitech mice are gods... wussies!
A good move IMO. I had the same thing happen with my last Logitech mouse, and a while later the right mouse button simply stopped working properly. It's better to replace it now than to have to replace it later and having to deal with a non-working mouse.
Anyway, you'll get use to it in all probability. However, your hand and fingers might be a little sore the first few days or week but that's true of a lot of mice changes. The 510 I used to use wasn't all that different from the Intellimouse it replaced, but I still had sore fingers for a bit during the transition.
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The opposite though... hmm.
I came here expecting the entire thread to be full of these posts.
Slightly disappointed.
I am confused.
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But if you're into competitive FPS gaming at all, you need to drop that sensitivity so it takes a good two full swipes across a large mousepad to turn a 180. And Razer mice are terrible for that.
Still a decent mouse tho if you're not into competitive FPS gaming.
say WHAT.
Well, pro Warcraft III'ers about all of them use Razer mice. And Rocketboy (he beat TEH FATAL1tY!!111) uses Razer ^^, so I think its bullshit. It's just what you prefer, Razer arent necessarily bad for FPS.
A near-pro friend of mine used the razr, but it wasn't working with Q4 right and he got pissed off and broke it. For a while he had one of the buttons set to decrease the sensitivity when he went in for a rail and then upped the sensitivity for quicker movement, but he found that it was too much hassle to change and generally just kept it low. But the notion that most badass-fps players play with super low sensitivity is pretty accurate I think. I don't see why the Razer would would be bad for the low-senstitivity gameplay. The high DPI will let the copperhead track accurately, even over long distances and reduce any jitter at all.
Also, I think when Karrmer says, 'High Sensitivity Gameplay' I'm not sure RTSs apply, for the most part. I was trying to find what Boxer uses, but I think that most RTS players play with middle of the ground sensitivity, because while aim is more important than turn speed in an RTS, and even with super low sense you can turn pretty fast, RTSs have conflicting needs: That is accuracy for micro (which hotkeys alleviate somewhat) and speed for issuing the commands. In FPSs, if you rail him before he gets close, turn speed isn't an issue.
Anyway, a long while ago I picked up a copperhead, and before it broke (the early ones were real suckprone, and I was too lazy to send it back. I don't know if this has been resolved, but I hope so), I thoroughly enjoyed the feel of the mouse. I'm really a $10/$15 usb symmetrical logitec kind of guy, but it felt more comfortable than that while being highly responsive. If you're that sort of person I imagine it would be great for you. It felt very comfortable, but I think I already wielded the mouse mostly with my fingertips already.
He's right.
In competitive FPS low sense is king. You'll see a lot of the best players in the world having absurdly low sense values. In ut2k4 (a game really big on low sense) you'll see top players with sense values of .95-1.10 and that's very common with the TDM/CTF/1v1 crowd. The lowest value I ever saw used was a .50, but they guy had fucking rediculous game (he also won the lan)
You also aim with your arm, not your wrist. That's why all those giant cloth mouse pads exist.
You can move just as quick and have more control, just takes getting used to. Plus your small aim adjustments go through the roof, as well as your ability to keep the cross hair dead on the guy for extended periods of time.
Having a high sense is a SERIOUS handicap in games like unreal or quake.
The reason that razer mice are bad, isn't so much razer, as it is LASER. Laser mice have serious issues at low sensitivity making them inferior to old style LED mice. Hence why the MX500/510/518 and the MS3.0 are still the defacto "pro gaming mice" of the top players. Some players use other mice because they are sponsord to do so and trying to push product. Razer has been improving their quality though and are making LED mice again (they learned!)
check out some of reviews on www.ggl.com you'll see the issues and comments about low sense superiority there from top players and why it's critical. Or check out the mouse reviews at www.esreality.com. It's explained a lot better there without me taking up pages and pages.
I use this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16826105018
And this pad
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817114456
This doesn't apply to RTS as I'm sure they are a different animal and I dont' like them.
This makes sense. I hear some SC players still use ball mice :shock:, but this just might be rumor.
Some do
My logitech mx518 just isn't heavy enough
Rip it open and super glue some pennies in there, or if it's to heavy remove the weight. Problem solved.
Trackballs ftw imo.
Anyway, basically low sensitivity play is good for hit-scan heavy FPS games and not so good for everything else (RTS, RPGs, MMOs during fights that make you pay attention to surroundings, turn based strategy where you have to scroll the screen a lot because you decided you wanted to play an 'epic' game and set the map too freaking big . . . ). I'd also posit that they're less hot on FPS games with few hitscan weapons, like Tribes, but we don't see too many of those anymore (and I miss Tribes
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The reason I asked about his idea of a good mouse for competitive gaming is that most mice from logitech and razr use the same internal hardware from the same third party company. I find it funny because tons of people get into arguments about which is better but apart from the ergonomics, there is essentially zero difference.