Orik, you're a dude I'd like to talk to about this. I've been working on a site with a few friends, and we're having discussions about video game criticism, and how we want to go about it. The project is fairly inconsequential, and mostly just for fun, but the subject is something we take seriously.
Some games are great to dissect on a artistic level, and some games really only get by on mechanics. Most have a good mix of the two. I'm guessing you write, so I'm curious how you go about it.
i think the general backlash geek culture has against acadaemia and theory has something to do with it. there's a very pervasive idea of 'critics are useless; why criticize something if you could be creating something yourself?'
this is by no means an opinion exclusive to forums like this one, or this subculture, but i think it tends to be harboured more than it's stymied.
well, how do you explain the success of yahtzee, then? there's a man who designed quite a few games before he ever started criticism, and now he's making that escapist money (ha ha)
he's a good comedian? his criticism is rarely more than a few satirizing bullet-points, but he knows exactly how to hammer them brutally.
The guy certainly knows his audience but half the time you get the feelings he's just writing reviews for his enjoyment alone, which works
Also yes USS Darkstar was awesome and I wonder what the hell Neil Manke is up to these days
it is hard to raise the cultural impression of your medium unless you develop a vocabulary of critical discussion to match
how do we improve a medium when we almost don't have any critics, just enthusiasts who get paid to write badly
I was going to say something about how academic criticism develops behind a medium, and commercial journalism will eventually become a synthesis of something something there's a Tim Rogers short film? Goddammit.
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited January 2011
You know where you used to be able to find solid game journalism? etoychest.org
Orik, you're a dude I'd like to talk to about this. I've been working on a site with a few friends, and we're having discussions about video game criticism, and how we want to go about it. The project is fairly inconsequential, and mostly just for fun, but the subject is something we take seriously.
Some games are great to dissect on a artistic level, and some games really only get by on mechanics. Most have a good mix of the two. I'm guessing you write, so I'm curious how you go about it.
I take every part of it seriously. I don't know if I can really write a good game criticism primer - in a nutshell, learn as much as you can about all the aspects of game development, and then judge the game based on those merits. I'm lucky in that I've taken a degree that focuses around critical analysis and writing structure and visual design/production, but I'm afraid you're probably going to have to read a lot of books. Ernest Adams' Fundamentals of Game Design is a good place to start.
I think you have to decide what you want out of your criticism. Do you want objectivity? And if so do you want a reviewer who will compare any game in any genre against any other or do you want someone who's well versed in a particular genre to compare a game against others of its type? Or do you want someone's subjective opinion from someone who's not hiding that? I'm thinking of someone like Tom Chick who'll push what he thinks without any pretense of objectivity, which leads to him saying fucking crazy things like Lost Planet 2 is the best game of the year.
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Viscount Islands[INSERT SoKo HERE]...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I guess one of the things with the state of game journalism is if you're smart and have enough drive to be a good game journalist you're smart enough and have enough drive to be something else.
Most people would choose something else.
Except pasty shut-in nerds (like Orik.)
Viscount Islands on
I want to do with you
What spring does with the cherry trees.
it is hard to raise the cultural impression of your medium unless you develop a vocabulary of critical discussion to match
how do we improve a medium when we almost don't have any critics, just enthusiasts who get paid to write badly
I was going to say something about how academic criticism develops behind a medium, and commercial journalism will eventually become a synthesis of
That's my hope, but as jezz said there's a pretty strong backlash against academia and criticism. Maybe it's because gamers are such fucking underachievers.
Did you see what I did there? I generalized unfairly for comedic effect.
it is hard to raise the cultural impression of your medium unless you develop a vocabulary of critical discussion to match
how do we improve a medium when we almost don't have any critics, just enthusiasts who get paid to write badly
I was going to say something about how academic criticism develops behind a medium, and commercial journalism will eventually become a synthesis of
That's my hope, but as jezz said there's a pretty strong backlash against academia and criticism. Maybe it's because gamers are such fucking underachievers.
Did you see what I did there? I generalized unfairly for comedic effect.
Highfive!
Asshole generalizations all around.
Viscount Islands on
I want to do with you
What spring does with the cherry trees.
Orik, you're a dude I'd like to talk to about this. I've been working on a site with a few friends, and we're having discussions about video game criticism, and how we want to go about it. The project is fairly inconsequential, and mostly just for fun, but the subject is something we take seriously.
Some games are great to dissect on a artistic level, and some games really only get by on mechanics. Most have a good mix of the two. I'm guessing you write, so I'm curious how you go about it.
I take every part of it seriously. I don't know if I can really write a good game criticism primer - in a nutshell, learn as much as you can about all the aspects of game development, and then judge the game based on those merits. I'm lucky in that I've taken a degree that focuses around critical analysis and writing structure and visual design/production, but I'm afraid you're probably going to have to read a lot of books. Ernest Adams' Fundamentals of Game Design is a good place to start.
I have a lot of friends in game development, so I've got a basic understanding of it, but yeah, I'll do that.
Basically what I've been doing is mixing my favourite aspects of criticism from other mediums (primarily film) and mixing it in a way that makes sense to me with video games. I ask myself what does it set out to accomplish? How effective is it at accomplishing that? What helps/hinders it from accomplishing that goal (or goals), and most importantly, how did I personally react to it? Other than the obvious objective things, like technical proficiency, it's a very personal and subjective thing.
Most of all I try to do everything the opposite of IGN.
on the other end of the scale, i'd like to see more pieces like this one, which got a lot of attention at the time but people sort of settled back into their metaphorical couches afterwards and stopped thinking about it
the change of communication in general has a lot to do with it. we no longer need to become Men of Letters; we are now able to communicate freely and with lacklustre polish on all the little notions that come into our head, with people who will engage with us on a satisfying level. all the time.
is it a bad thing for the refinement of specific criticisms - and in turn the development of the critical language of videogames? probably.
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Orik when did you decide to be a game journalist anyway?
I didn't. I'm trying to be a good game designer, and that means being able to talk cogently about what you're doing. There's a lot of overlap between the two, especially in this field.
Orik when did you decide to be a game journalist anyway?
I didn't. I'm trying to be a good game designer, and that means being able to talk cogently about what you're doing. There's a lot of overlap between the two, especially in this field.
In the same way that editing helps you understand writing, I should imagine
I guess too, do you want criticism to tell you whether a game is "objectively" good or whether you'll like it? Because an advantage of the enthusiast press is that if you find a guy who's got opinions like yours it's nice. I can look at reviewer x's reviews and if he likes it then I know I will too and that has value to me, even if it's not professional criticism at its finest.
movies have had 80 or 90 years to evolve the nature of film criticism.
Games have only had about 30 and that's pushing it
There are plenty of horrible shallow movie reviewers out there which equate to basically most of what we have in game journalism.
The problem is we don't have any Ebert's who actually know what they are talking about. Because all of the people smart of enough to give a quality analysis on a game are probably busy making more money actually making games.
2 minutes of music and random scenes that I guess might be Japanese?
Then while Tim Rogers relays the riveting tale of how he met his yaoi artist boss (really) they show the image of a random Japanese school boy on the screen.
What?
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Viscount Islands[INSERT SoKo HERE]...it was the summer of my lifeRegistered Userregular
movies have had 80 or 90 years to evolve the nature of film criticism.
Games have only had about 30 and that's pushing it
There are plenty of horrible shallow movie reviewers out there which equate to basically most of what we have in game journalism.
The problem is we don't have any Ebert's who actually know what they are talking about. Because all of the people smart of enough to give a quality analysis on a game are probably busy making more money actually making games.
Yup that's what I think.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
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Some games are great to dissect on a artistic level, and some games really only get by on mechanics. Most have a good mix of the two. I'm guessing you write, so I'm curious how you go about it.
Game sucks.
The guy certainly knows his audience but half the time you get the feelings he's just writing reviews for his enjoyment alone, which works
Also yes USS Darkstar was awesome and I wonder what the hell Neil Manke is up to these days
I was going to say something about how academic criticism develops behind a medium, and commercial journalism will eventually become a synthesis of something something there's a Tim Rogers short film? Goddammit.
it should just consist of a series of articles examining what makes quake 3 such a perfect fps and how everyone should play it forever
(serious post)
I take every part of it seriously. I don't know if I can really write a good game criticism primer - in a nutshell, learn as much as you can about all the aspects of game development, and then judge the game based on those merits. I'm lucky in that I've taken a degree that focuses around critical analysis and writing structure and visual design/production, but I'm afraid you're probably going to have to read a lot of books. Ernest Adams' Fundamentals of Game Design is a good place to start.
Well that's just your opinion, my opinion is fact.
Most people would choose something else.
Except pasty shut-in nerds (like Orik.)
What spring does with the cherry trees.
This would be agreeable but Unreal Tournament is better.
I think they had Ultima Underworld on that disc too, it was pretty rad
That's my hope, but as jezz said there's a pretty strong backlash against academia and criticism. Maybe it's because gamers are such fucking underachievers.
Did you see what I did there? I generalized unfairly for comedic effect.
Highfive!
Asshole generalizations all around.
What spring does with the cherry trees.
ahh, those were the days
I wonder what happened to it....
I'm going to miss this month's meeting because I lost my ticket
goddamn raijin, did you hook up a time machine to your browser?
I have a lot of friends in game development, so I've got a basic understanding of it, but yeah, I'll do that.
Basically what I've been doing is mixing my favourite aspects of criticism from other mediums (primarily film) and mixing it in a way that makes sense to me with video games. I ask myself what does it set out to accomplish? How effective is it at accomplishing that? What helps/hinders it from accomplishing that goal (or goals), and most importantly, how did I personally react to it? Other than the obvious objective things, like technical proficiency, it's a very personal and subjective thing.
Most of all I try to do everything the opposite of IGN.
also Master of magic, it was awesome.
I was planning on going to the rally, but I just stayed home and made hot pockets.
and cried.
is it a bad thing for the refinement of specific criticisms - and in turn the development of the critical language of videogames? probably.
I just miss writing for them. I've got my little blog now that I never update and don't spend more then 5 minutes writing each piece.
What spring does with the cherry trees.
I didn't. I'm trying to be a good game designer, and that means being able to talk cogently about what you're doing. There's a lot of overlap between the two, especially in this field.
if you can call that youtube video one
In the same way that editing helps you understand writing, I should imagine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVCtkzIXYzQ
Games have only had about 30 and that's pushing it
There are plenty of horrible shallow movie reviewers out there which equate to basically most of what we have in game journalism.
The problem is we don't have any Ebert's who actually know what they are talking about. Because all of the people smart of enough to give a quality analysis on a game are probably busy making more money actually making games.
It's fucking terribly edited.
Opening: Idiotic quote from Tim Rogers
2 minutes of music and random scenes that I guess might be Japanese?
Then while Tim Rogers relays the riveting tale of how he met his yaoi artist boss (really) they show the image of a random Japanese school boy on the screen.
What?
What spring does with the cherry trees.
Yup that's what I think.
What spring does with the cherry trees.
You say this about everyone