Well, it's a matter of taste then. I wouldn't say someone enjoying a part of a game that you did not "laughable." I personally thought the side quests and mask collecting was the best part of Majora's Mask, but I understand most people probably play Zelda games for the dungeons.
That game doesn't have a lot of dungeons as is, but if they made you actually do that sidequest to unlock it, or made you bring spoils to characters to unlock dungeons, I wouldn't try to use that to defend its lack of dungeons. That is padding, pure and simple.
Ah, I understand. It's that fine line between content and padding, I suppose. I couldn't bring myself to finish Spirit Tracks because the parts between dungeons were padded to shit with fetch quests and arbitrary traintrack segments. If Majora's Mask struck me the same way Spirit Tracks did, I would definitely not be as much of a proponent of it as I am, and may very well dislike the game entirely.
All the sidequests are typically pretty lame bullshit, even in my favorite entries in the series
The fact that someone's praising all the sidequests you have to do to enter the game's first dungeon is laughable
Do they have to be lame bullshit by comparison? Could they do anything to make you say, hey, this is pretty great, the game only has four dungeons but I feel like I've experienced just as much cool content anyway?
The way you describe it, it doesn't sound like there's anything they could do to make it not padding. Probably by virtue of your own anticipation to get to the next dungeon already.
All the sidequests are typically pretty lame bullshit, even in my favorite entries in the series
The fact that someone's praising all the sidequests you have to do to enter the game's first dungeon is laughable
Do they have to be lame bullshit by comparison? Could they do anything to make you say, hey, this is pretty great, the game only has four dungeons but I feel like I've experienced just as much cool content anyway?
The way you describe it, it doesn't sound like there's anything they could do to make it not padding. Probably by virtue of your own anticipation to get to the next dungeon already.
I actually really dug the Triforce hunt in WW
But I think that's just because the Triforce is just a thing in the Zelda universe, so it felt sufficiently important, as well as working as an homage to the original game.
"Playing hide and seek" doesn't have quite the same impact.
I didn't dig farming up all those rupees. Especially because I kept finding the silver 200 rupees earlier when that was all I could hold and I already had 167.
I suspect part of the excitement surrounding A Link to the Past was beating Agahnim for the first time, thinking it was over, then realizing that there were twice as many dungeons for you to beat with twice the difficulty. Unfortunately, the magic was lost to me since a friend spoiled it for me back then.
I never played it. I was thinking of doing so someday. Thanks man. Such a wonderfully specific spoiler.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
I'm not really mad. It's a joke based entirely on irony.
I'm actually amused right now.
Ease up both of you.
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mntorankusuI'm not sure how to use this thing....Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
I think the Triforce hunt in Wind Waker is probably the strongest feeling of "adventure" I've ever had in a game.
For that part, I wasn't playing a game. I was exploring a giant ocean world, searching by myself to find the ancient artifacts I needed to save the world.
That feeling of adventure is my favorite thing about Zelda games, and Wind Waker nailed it completely.
Ah, I understand. It's that fine line between content and padding, I suppose. I couldn't bring myself to finish Spirit Tracks because the parts between dungeons were padded to shit with fetch quests and arbitrary traintrack segments. If Majora's Mask struck me the same way Spirit Tracks did, I would definitely not be as much of a proponent of it as I am, and may very well dislike the game entirely.
Different strokes, I guess.
Man, Spirit Tracks got fucking boring. So boring. First zelda I never finished. That train sucked balls.
I think the Triforce hunt in Wind Waker is probably the strongest feeling of "adventure" I've ever had in a game.
For that part, I wasn't playing a game. I was exploring a giant ocean world, searching by myself to find the ancient artifacts I needed to save the world.
That feeling of adventure is my favorite thing about Zelda games, and Wind Waker nailed it completely.
That's exactly how I felt the first time, but I haven't been able to enjoy doing that part of the game again.
I think the Triforce hunt in Wind Waker is probably the strongest feeling of "adventure" I've ever had in a game.
For that part, I wasn't playing a game. I was exploring a giant ocean world, searching by myself to find the ancient artifacts I needed to save the world.
That feeling of adventure is my favorite thing about Zelda games, and Wind Waker nailed it completely.
That's exactly how I felt the first time, but I haven't been able to enjoy doing that part of the game again.
Well sure. You can't expect to have that magical feeling of adventure when you've already done all of it before.
I enjoy it just fine on a second time through, but it's a little tedious. And if you speed through, you definitely won't have enough rupees to decipher the maps, and that is the most frustrating thing ever.
The first time through I had more than enough rupees to decode all the maps, without any grinding. Every subsequent time, this has not been the case.
I think a good idea for a zelda would be to try remove a lot of the narritave. Set up the objective, have plenty of smaller mini-plots in various areas, but let the player do all the exploration and make it less linear. Have a few areas where you need item X to get past, but don't make a specific order to temples or dungeons. Each item you get shouldn't be a key to another area, so much as make it so you are stronger or have more options for some of the tougher areas. Making the narrative to be to find all the pieces of a triforce or something again, would be just fine.
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UV does have a point. In TP, do the shadow bugs actually serve a purpose besides stretching the game? I know you're supposed to collect these tears of light to awaken the light spirits, but did they have to be hidden in bugs? Things like these sort of break the immersion for me. Sidequests should fit in the game world and not arbitrarily tacked on for the sake of it.
Another example is why did Link became a wolf specifically? Did the game ever explain that? Couldn't it be a unicorn or a tyrannosaurus?
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
I would have bought a Wii if he was a tyrannosaurus. Just for that.
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I think a good idea for a zelda would be to try remove a lot of the narritave. Set up the objective, have plenty of smaller mini-plots in various areas, but let the player do all the exploration and make it less linear. Have a few areas where you need item X to get past, but don't make a specific order to temples or dungeons. Each item you get shouldn't be a key to another area, so much as make it so you are stronger or have more options for some of the tougher areas. Making the narrative to be to find all the pieces of a triforce or something again, would be just fine.
Basically an advanced remake of Zelda 1 with everything in different locations and no text popping up to explain that you just grabbed a rupee.
mntorankusuI'm not sure how to use this thing....Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
I could not agree more with any complaints about the shadow bugs.
I liked the Twilight areas, but you never do anything in them except search for stupid bugs. There's never any feeling that it actually matters that the world has been turned into twilight because that's the only thing that ever happens in them.
text popping up to explain that you just grabbed a rupee.
This is the worst thing about Zelda games. It seriously makes them nearly unplayable.
Twilight Princess is the only game where it becomes a real problem. In every other game, the only time something pops up is the first time you grab an item.
In Twilight Princess, the rupee messages are reset every time you turn off the game. Every single time.
I would have bought a Wii if he was a tyrannosaurus. Just for that.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo could have designed a world where Midna rides a dinosaur if they wanted to.
If you think about it, wolves make as much sense as dinosaurs in the land of Hyrule. Deku scrubs, gorons and zoras, sure, they're actually living and breathing creatures in Hyrule, but has anyone seen wolves? In OoT, but they were bipedal.
I really liked that in both games but in Twilight Princess even moreso because it was actually somewhat challenging. The combat in Wind Waker was fun and everything, but so many enemies you killed left an orb that exploded in more health, bombs, arrows, and rupees then you had any need for.
Picking up more moves as you went along in both games was really cool though.
text popping up to explain that you just grabbed a rupee.
This is the worst thing about Zelda games. It seriously makes them nearly unplayable.
Twilight Princess is the only game where it becomes a real problem. In every other game, the only time something pops up is the first time you grab an item.
In Twilight Princess, the rupee messages are reset every time you turn off the game. Every single time.
Wind Waker was really bad about it, too. Yes I know what the fucking butterflies do you don't need to tell me everytime huhlglughlguhlguhglhulgh
text popping up to explain that you just grabbed a rupee.
This is the worst thing about Zelda games. It seriously makes them nearly unplayable.
Twilight Princess is the only game where it becomes a real problem. In every other game, the only time something pops up is the first time you grab an item.
In Twilight Princess, the rupee messages are reset every time you turn off the game. Every single time.
You know, I did not realize that was what was happening. I remember being baffled as to why it was showing up. I would say that was a bug.
The fact that someone's praising all the sidequests you have to do to enter the game's first dungeon is laughable
Why are you calling events you have to do to progress through the game "sidequests"?
Especially since, the way the events are designed, it is for all intents and purposes a dungeon between dungeons. You need to solve puzzles, find items, fight monsters, in order to get there.
The entire "dungeon" division is arbitrary anyways. It's just a useful way of measuring progress in the game and story.
The fact that someone's praising all the sidequests you have to do to enter the game's first dungeon is laughable
Why are you calling events you have to do to progress through the game "sidequests"?
Especially since, the way the events are designed, it is for all intents and purposes a dungeon between dungeons. You need to solve puzzles, find items, fight monsters, in order to get there.
The entire "dungeon" division is arbitrary anyways. It's just a useful way of measuring progress in the game and story.
I'm sorry, but playing Hide and Seek, playing Find the witch and fetch her a potion, and bad stealth gameplay, is not compelling content. They could have cut all that out and gotten you to the dungeon faster and been a better game for it.
Well you have to "grind" for money to buy a shield in OoT and there's a stealth "sidequest" where you have to sneak into Hyrule castle as well.
I can understand someone not liking Majora's Mask because it's a very different sort of Zelda game. You have to care about the characters in the towns and want to help them.
On the contrary to some of the rumors floating around the internet, the 3DS’s virtual console (known as the eStore) and internet browser will be available on launch day. The only thing is that it won’t be included in the initial firmware, but it will be updated immediately (as told to Eurogamer by Nintendo). When the 3DS comes out on March 27th games like Link’s Awakening will be available almost immediately for download.
Rumors are circulating on Zelda fan sites regarding Link's Awakening being available on the eStore day 1 of the 3DS launch. These rumors seem to stem from a Eurogamer article refuting the previous rumors that the eStore wouldn't be available at launch.
I really hope this is the case, as I love Link's Awakening dearly.
On the contrary to some of the rumors floating around the internet, the 3DS’s virtual console (known as the eStore) and internet browser will be available on launch day. The only thing is that it won’t be included in the initial firmware, but it will be updated immediately (as told to Eurogamer by Nintendo). When the 3DS comes out on March 27th games like Link’s Awakening will be available almost immediately for download.
Rumors are circulating on Zelda fan sites regarding Link's Awakening being available on the eStore day 1 of the 3DS launch. These rumors seem to stem from a Eurogamer article refuting the previous rumors that the eStore wouldn't be available at launch.
I really hope this is the case, as I love Link's Awakening dearly.
Me too. I wonder if they'll do anything to these games as well. It might be kind of neat if they do a quasi-3d effect with them (like the sprites are raised out a bit from the background or something).
I also still wonder what options we'll get in regards to coloring classic Gameboy. I still feel Super Gameboy was the best despite not allowing seperate coloring of sprite and background layers. At least it let you pick the colors. GBC only had the presets, which was lame.
I liked the Twilight bug hunt, the mood was awesome, being a wolf gave a feeling of helplessness and at the same time was badass and it took away focus from dungeons which some ask of the next Zelda games and other complain because if you don't get to a dungeon in 30 seconds, the game is dragging on and had a slow start *shrugs*
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All the sidequests are typically pretty lame bullshit, even in my favorite entries in the series
The fact that someone's praising all the sidequests you have to do to enter the game's first dungeon is laughable
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It's like the statue sidequest in WW
That was really dumb
That game doesn't have a lot of dungeons as is, but if they made you actually do that sidequest to unlock it, or made you bring spoils to characters to unlock dungeons, I wouldn't try to use that to defend its lack of dungeons. That is padding, pure and simple.
Different strokes, I guess.
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Do they have to be lame bullshit by comparison? Could they do anything to make you say, hey, this is pretty great, the game only has four dungeons but I feel like I've experienced just as much cool content anyway?
The way you describe it, it doesn't sound like there's anything they could do to make it not padding. Probably by virtue of your own anticipation to get to the next dungeon already.
I actually really dug the Triforce hunt in WW
But I think that's just because the Triforce is just a thing in the Zelda universe, so it felt sufficiently important, as well as working as an homage to the original game.
"Playing hide and seek" doesn't have quite the same impact.
I never played it. I was thinking of doing so someday. Thanks man. Such a wonderfully specific spoiler.
You've never read anyone ever mention a thing about more than 3 dungeons being in LttP, or there being a dark world?
Also you think you'd be naive enough to believe that the game would be over having filled up less than half of your inventory slots?
I'm actually amused right now.
Ease up both of you.
For that part, I wasn't playing a game. I was exploring a giant ocean world, searching by myself to find the ancient artifacts I needed to save the world.
That feeling of adventure is my favorite thing about Zelda games, and Wind Waker nailed it completely.
Man, Spirit Tracks got fucking boring. So boring. First zelda I never finished. That train sucked balls.
That's exactly how I felt the first time, but I haven't been able to enjoy doing that part of the game again.
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Well sure. You can't expect to have that magical feeling of adventure when you've already done all of it before.
I enjoy it just fine on a second time through, but it's a little tedious. And if you speed through, you definitely won't have enough rupees to decipher the maps, and that is the most frustrating thing ever.
The first time through I had more than enough rupees to decode all the maps, without any grinding. Every subsequent time, this has not been the case.
One of them was the Savage Labyrinth
Which I guess TP had one as well but whatever
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Another example is why did Link became a wolf specifically? Did the game ever explain that? Couldn't it be a unicorn or a tyrannosaurus?
Basically an advanced remake of Zelda 1 with everything in different locations and no text popping up to explain that you just grabbed a rupee.
I liked the Twilight areas, but you never do anything in them except search for stupid bugs. There's never any feeling that it actually matters that the world has been turned into twilight because that's the only thing that ever happens in them.
This is the worst thing about Zelda games. It seriously makes them nearly unplayable.
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Twilight Princess is the only game where it becomes a real problem. In every other game, the only time something pops up is the first time you grab an item.
In Twilight Princess, the rupee messages are reset every time you turn off the game. Every single time.
If you think about it, wolves make as much sense as dinosaurs in the land of Hyrule. Deku scrubs, gorons and zoras, sure, they're actually living and breathing creatures in Hyrule, but has anyone seen wolves? In OoT, but they were bipedal.
I really liked that in both games but in Twilight Princess even moreso because it was actually somewhat challenging. The combat in Wind Waker was fun and everything, but so many enemies you killed left an orb that exploded in more health, bombs, arrows, and rupees then you had any need for.
Picking up more moves as you went along in both games was really cool though.
Banjo-Tooie already did the last one
Wind Waker was really bad about it, too. Yes I know what the fucking butterflies do you don't need to tell me everytime huhlglughlguhlguhglhulgh
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You know, I did not realize that was what was happening. I remember being baffled as to why it was showing up. I would say that was a bug.
Why are you calling events you have to do to progress through the game "sidequests"?
Especially since, the way the events are designed, it is for all intents and purposes a dungeon between dungeons. You need to solve puzzles, find items, fight monsters, in order to get there.
The entire "dungeon" division is arbitrary anyways. It's just a useful way of measuring progress in the game and story.
I'm sorry, but playing Hide and Seek, playing Find the witch and fetch her a potion, and bad stealth gameplay, is not compelling content. They could have cut all that out and gotten you to the dungeon faster and been a better game for it.
I can understand someone not liking Majora's Mask because it's a very different sort of Zelda game. You have to care about the characters in the towns and want to help them.
Stealth sections
Those are something that are never fun in Zelda games, by the way
They were acceptable in WW because when Link sidled along the wall he got the "sneaky face" and it looked awesome
Rumors are circulating on Zelda fan sites regarding Link's Awakening being available on the eStore day 1 of the 3DS launch. These rumors seem to stem from a Eurogamer article refuting the previous rumors that the eStore wouldn't be available at launch.
I really hope this is the case, as I love Link's Awakening dearly.
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Me too. I wonder if they'll do anything to these games as well. It might be kind of neat if they do a quasi-3d effect with them (like the sprites are raised out a bit from the background or something).
I also still wonder what options we'll get in regards to coloring classic Gameboy. I still feel Super Gameboy was the best despite not allowing seperate coloring of sprite and background layers. At least it let you pick the colors. GBC only had the presets, which was lame.
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Yet every time I say that it seems people jump on me and claim I have no idea what I am talking about and my opinion sucks about Zelda.
TP had it's problems. It wasn't very original, it was super linear, and it was a little slow at the start.
It's still a solid game and one of the best of this generation. Great graphics, good use of the over world, great characters, and fun temples.
TP is not a perfect game, it's still a FUN game.
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