Learning about Islam

Lardalish

Ok, so lemme preface this that I know what I'm asking is going to make a lot of you go "oh just ignore them" but that doesn't seem to be something I can do.

I just finished having a "conversation" with one of those idiots who believes that all Muslims are terrorists. Basically they managed to work me up into a froth over them being a willfully ignorant hate-spewer. Like I said I know I SHOULD ignore them but I never can.

ANYWAY, so while I was attempting to explain how thats horribly inaccurate and just flat out wrong, I also could not quote any sources or anything. It probably wont help if I do, but it would make me feel like I at least put up a fight, you know? Right now it seemed like I basically just screamed at him over the internet without any real rational arguments and I don't like that about myself.

I guess I would just like to learn more about the religion. I would like to be able to say "well according to this here, you are just wrong" and not "YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE OH GOD I HATE YOU" which is kind of where I am now. At least with creationists (don't want to get into this, just an example) I know enough facts about evolution and cosmology that I can quote figures or look them up and feel like I did a good job. But I cant do that with these ... Islamophobes.

So, even though my little crusade is probably a waste of time and resources, it would make me feel better to know some more about the subject. Where should I start guys?


(Ok, I'm sorry if thats ramble-y, but its 2:45 am here and since I'm all worked up I'm not tired anymore so here I am. Also I apologize if any of that comes off as offensive, I really don't mean it to be, its just late and I'm throughly angry.))

Shogun

For starters read the Quran.

Lachrymite

Shogun wrote: »

For starters read the Quran.

To be fair, it's filled with a lot of violent ideas... it's just that so is the holy book of Christians.

I've typically tried to convince people that Muslims aren't all a bunch of evil terrorists by pointing out how much violent imagery and language is in their own holy book (typically the Bible), and then pointing out that they themselves are not brain washed psychotic killers, so why do they think that just because there's violent stuff in the Quran all Muslims would be?

Rhesus Positive

Cracked had an article recently about common misconceptions about Islam. It's not perfect, but there are some statistics you can throw their way.

A word of warning, though: even with all the facts in front of them, they're not going to listen to you. That would mean accepting that they're wrong. At least you're interested in learning more, though, so even when you don't win the argument, at least you have a chance of persuading some on-the-fence observers of the discussion (assuming it's a public forum).

Hevach

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islam.htm

Sort of the wikipedia or religions, minus the public editing. Lots of articles, lots of links to outside articles. If you're genuinely interested in the subject you can lose days just tracing links off of that page. Nothing especially deep, but there are some very relevant articles to the discussion - studies and statistics about extremism in Muslim populations, Muslim reactions to violence, etc (good answer to the "Where's the Muslim outrage, huh?" question that was so common a few years ago).

A word of warning, though: even with all the facts in front of them, they're not going to listen to you.

This. No matter how much you learn about Islam or your own religion, chances are he's heard it before, and doesn't care. He might even be the type who will only be reinforced by it - there's always been the insidious branch of racism defined by the quote, "Well, sure, there's good ones. And there's bad ones," with the unspoken "mostly bad."

Learning is good. But pick arguments you can win - arguing with this guy will only give you an aneurysm.

Organichu

not to be 'that guy', but i'd be wary of accepting your education from american muslims. read the qur'an and a selection of ahadith, and seek popular internet sources.

MegaMan001

Organichu wrote: »

not to be 'that guy', but i'd be wary of accepting your education from american muslims. read the qur'an and a selection of ahadith, and seek popular internet sources.

My father came to this country when he was 16 from Karachi, Pakistan and met my mother and produced me and my brother.

I'd really like to know why you don't think American Muslims know enough about their religion to educate others, but I'd prefer to keep that to PMs so we don't derail this thread.

I just wanted to come in here and say that it's admirable that you want to learn more about such a misunderstood culture, but with people like the one you describe in the OP, it'll make absolutely no difference.

Muslims and Islam are following the same trend in this country of being the scapegoat when things are bad. We had the persecution of the Japanese during World War II, the hatred of the Irish during poor economic times, distrust of the Jews, etc.

Anyway, I'd advise you to contact your local mosque before leaping right into the Quran. I mean, it's a pretty dense book filled with a lot of serious imagery that you may not correctly understand (consider the regular failure of laypeople to interpret the Bible appropriately according to theologians). More than likely you'll be able to find some more digestive books, though the text 'Christianity and Islam' is pretty good.

EDIT: The book "What Everyone Needs to Know About Islam" is great, too, but admittedly it doesn't go over any of the really negative aspects, which there are plenty of, but is a great starter text.

Organichu

pm sent

Rhan9

MegaMan001 wrote: »

It's a pretty dense book filled with a lot of serious imagery that you may not correctly understand (consider the regular failure of laypeople to interpret the Bible appropriately according to theologians).

Regarding this point, it's important to keep in mind that several types of theologians exist. Some genuinely try to interpret texts as a cohesive whole with arguments and justifications based on the contents of the text, while others pick and choose with little to no justification, or just make shit up, and dismiss any criticism with the argument that laypeople just don't get it. The latter type are just best dismissed, while the former are actually people that it's possible to have a conversation with.

MegaMan001

Oh, that's absolutely correct. My best friend of 15 years or so is currently going through his seminary schooling to become a Lutheran pastor. As part of his training, among other things, he's read the Bible cover to cover, the Quran, and the Torah in the Greek and Latin translations.

From what he's told me, the amount of incorrect interpretations and misconceptions are staggering.

He wrote his thesis on the defense of homosexuality using the same text used to attack it, but interprets the language in the correct context.

Fantasma

Hello,

Learning about Islam could take you some time, it is kind of complex topic. Keep in mind from the start that there are several sects that follow different believes, and they interpret the Qur'an, Sunna and Hadith in different ways.

In addition, there is sufism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism

Many years ago I read a summary, with footnotes, of the novel Satanic Verses that gave me a glimpse of the beliefs, even when it has nothing to do with the satanic verses itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_verses

schuss

Another valuable thing is to look at the history of Islam, as it will inform you as to the development of the current sects/beliefs and the differences/conflicts between them. They each developed at different times, leading to different offshoots.
I seem to remember a book called the 7 doors of Islam? I'll look through my books when I'm off work, as we learned all about it for an Islamic Art/Culture history class in college.