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[Canada/Censorship] Money For Something; Chicks No Longer Free

Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
edited January 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
In a ruling that not only offends me but also makes me feel old, the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council has ruled that the full version of the Dire Straits song "Money for Nothing", contravenes the human rights clause of the Broadcaster's Code. Details here:
The 1980s song Money for Nothing by the British rock band Dire Straits has been deemed unacceptable for play on Canadian radio.

In a ruling released Wednesday, the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council says the song contravenes the human rights clauses of the Canadian Association of Broadcasters' Code of Ethics and Equitable Portrayal Code.

The council is an independent, non-governmental group created to administer standards established by its members, Canada's private broadcasters. Its membership includes more than 700 private radio and TV stations across the country.

Last year, a listener to radio station CHOZ-FM in St. John's complained that the '80s rock song includes the word "faggot" in its lyrics and is discriminatory to gays.

The broadcaster argued that the song had been played countless times since its release decades ago and has won music industry awards.

A CBSC panel concluded that the word "faggot," even if once acceptable, has evolved to become unacceptable in most circumstances.

The panel noted that Money for Nothing would be acceptable for broadcast if suitably edited.

I was debating putting this in the Canada thread, but I think it's a larger issue that transcends national boundaries, as, while I don't consider Dire Straits work to be of equivalent artistic merit to that of Mark Twain, this essentially stems from the same motivations as the decision to publish an edited version of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. Thoughts?



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  • LoklarLoklar Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    In a ruling that not only offends me but also makes me feel old, the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council has ruled that the full version of the Dire Straits song "Money for Nothing", contravenes the human rights clause of the Broadcaster's Code. Details here:
    The 1980s song Money for Nothing by the British rock band Dire Straits has been deemed unacceptable for play on Canadian radio.

    In a ruling released Wednesday, the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council says the song contravenes the human rights clauses of the Canadian Association of Broadcasters' Code of Ethics and Equitable Portrayal Code.

    The council is an independent, non-governmental group created to administer standards established by its members, Canada's private broadcasters. Its membership includes more than 700 private radio and TV stations across the country.

    Last year, a listener to radio station CHOZ-FM in St. John's complained that the '80s rock song includes the word "faggot" in its lyrics and is discriminatory to gays.

    The broadcaster argued that the song had been played countless times since its release decades ago and has won music industry awards.

    A CBSC panel concluded that the word "faggot," even if once acceptable, has evolved to become unacceptable in most circumstances.

    The panel noted that Money for Nothing would be acceptable for broadcast if suitably edited.

    I was debating putting this in the Canada thread, but I think it's a larger issue that transcends national boundaries, as, while I don't consider Dire Straits work to be of equivalent artistic merit to that of Mark Twain, this essentially stems from the same motivations as the decision to publish an edited version of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. Thoughts?

    The publisher of Huck Finn chose to censore Huck Finn. Which is fine in my mind, I only hate imposed censorship from the government. So if they were pressured into changing the book by sensitive people, well then that's the marketplace for you.

    Also the book is still available in the original version. And it's probably also still printed uncensored (I assume anyway, don't really know).

    The Canadian Broadcast Standards Council, afaik, is an industry managed watchdog. But I think there's some sort of story where the government said "regulate your airwaves or we will regulate it for you!" Which I've got a problem with.

    But really, eventually we will all get what we want from internet radio. If you want no swears, there will be a channel for you.

    Edit: I'm not happy about the choice to censore Huck Finn, but I don't see it as a travesty like government censorship, as in the Canadian example.

    Loklar on
  • adytumadytum The Inevitable Rise And FallRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Except the prevailing interests have been trying to shut down internet radio through (among other things) obscenely high licensing fees.

    Nothing is a given.

    adytum on
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    adytum wrote: »
    Except the prevailing interests have been trying to shut down internet radio through (among other things) obscenely high licensing fees.

    Nothing is a given.

    There aren't many things I would join a revolution for...

    Not many things at all......

    Loklar on
  • mysticjuicermysticjuicer [he/him] I'm a muscle wizard and I cast P U N C HRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Edit, because apparently I can't read: They're banning it even though it's only played on-air in edited form?! WHAT THE WHAT?!

    Original comment, now retracted: (I don't think the two situations are analogous: on one hand, the original item will no longer be available for sale, while in the other, it is, you just won't hear it on the radio.

    A couple of asides, in order of decreasing relevance:
    1) I have not once heard the un-edited version of Money for Nothing on the radio in Canada. To the point where I thought I'd found a cover when I heard the unedited version.
    2) In the performances of Money For Nothing I've seen on youtube, Mark always either cuts out the offending section entirely, or more often substitutes faggot with another word.
    3) I vastly prefer listening to the edited version so there.)

    mysticjuicer on
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  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Would this be the appropriate thread in which to discuss the various Human Rights Commissions that have gone after publications like McLeans for articles that were considered potentially racist or discriminatory?

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Will this also affect Fairytale of New York? There always seemed to be minor outrages every Christmas when I was growing up about "faggot" in the lyrics (less so for "old slut on junk").

    Rhesus Positive on
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  • Torso BoyTorso Boy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I've also never heard the uncensored version broadcast over the air so I wasn't aware this was a big deal.

    That said, I'd prefer they air it in its entirety. The word is in the song for a reason.

    Torso Boy on
  • adytumadytum The Inevitable Rise And FallRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Why ban the song if it's already censored for radio broadcast? Radio stations around here are now blanking out the word "drugs" or other references to specific narcotics.

    I don't understand why the actions taken in the OP were even something that needed to be done.

    adytum on
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Would this be the appropriate thread in which to discuss the various Human Rights Commissions that have gone after publications like McLeans for articles that were considered potentially racist or discriminatory?

    It's a different ball of wax, because the CBSC isn't a governmental body, it's a private industry body.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Would this be the appropriate thread in which to discuss the various Human Rights Commissions that have gone after publications like McLeans for articles that were considered potentially racist or discriminatory?

    It's a different ball of wax, because the CBSC isn't a governmental body, it's a private industry body.
    Does that mean its decisions aren't legally binding? If a radio station told the CBSC to go pound sand, what would be the implications?

    Modern Man on
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  • Torso BoyTorso Boy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Not legally binding, but it is an organization created by the industry association. It'll affect mainstream radio and television (IIRC?) but that's the extent of its reach.

    Torso Boy on
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Would this be the appropriate thread in which to discuss the various Human Rights Commissions that have gone after publications like McLeans for articles that were considered potentially racist or discriminatory?

    It's a different ball of wax, because the CBSC isn't a governmental body, it's a private industry body.
    Does that mean its decisions aren't legally binding? If a radio station told the CBSC to go pound sand, what would be the implications?

    They're not legally binding, no. Like any sort of voluntary association, the association has the ability to impose some sanctions that a member would need to comply with in order to remain in good standing, but ultimately they can't prevent a broadcaster from broadcasting. There are broadcasters that aren't CBSC members (notably the public broadcaster, the CBC, though Sun TV, the so-called "Fox News North", is fairly likely to drop their membership, though they are members in their current incarnation). Non-members are ultimately accountable the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, which is a governmental organization. A broadcaster could choose to completely drop CBSC membership in favour of CRTC regulation, but CBSC membership is generally seen as preferable. Of course, like with most organizations, there are members that thumb their noses at rulings to the extent that they can while remaining members.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    How is this different in principle from blanking out the word 'fuck' or references to drugs?

    Also, I don't think it's directly analogous to Huck Finn. Similar, sure, but not precisely the same. Huck Finn is largely (primarily?) about race relations - editing out the N-word fundamentally alters dialogue crucial to the theme of the book. The word 'faggot' in Money for Nothing isn't nearly as essential.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • adytumadytum The Inevitable Rise And FallRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    How is this different in principle from blanking out the word 'fuck' or references to drugs?

    Also, I don't think it's directly analogous to Huck Finn. Similar, sure, but not precisely the same. Huck Finn is largely (primarily?) about race relations - editing out the N-word fundamentally alters dialogue crucial to the theme of the book. The word 'faggot' in Money for Nothing isn't nearly as essential.

    I'm pretty sure (from the OP) the word is already blanked on the radio. This is a complete ban on the song being played in its usual blanked form without further editing.

    I may be confused, though, because the details aren't completely clear.

    adytum on
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    How is this different in principle from blanking out the word 'fuck' or references to drugs?

    Also, I don't think it's directly analogous to Huck Finn. Similar, sure, but not precisely the same. Huck Finn is largely (primarily?) about race relations - editing out the N-word fundamentally alters dialogue crucial to the theme of the book. The word 'faggot' in Money for Nothing isn't nearly as essential.

    The narrative behind "Money for Nothing" is based on the experiences of blue collar workers in an electronics store. The line is spoken from the perspective of one of those workers, talking about his attitude toward the sort of acts (allegedly the "little faggot" specifically refers to Nikki Sixx from Mötley Crüe, and the guy banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee is Tommy Lee) he's seeing on MTV. I'm not sure that it's much different than editting a character's voice in Huck Finn.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • LoklarLoklar Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    adytum wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    How is this different in principle from blanking out the word 'fuck' or references to drugs?

    Also, I don't think it's directly analogous to Huck Finn. Similar, sure, but not precisely the same. Huck Finn is largely (primarily?) about race relations - editing out the N-word fundamentally alters dialogue crucial to the theme of the book. The word 'faggot' in Money for Nothing isn't nearly as essential.

    I'm pretty sure (from the OP) the word is already blanked on the radio. This is a complete ban on the song being played in its usual blanked form without further editing.

    I may be confused, though, because the details aren't completely clear.

    Pretty sure you're confused.

    The complaint was made because a man heard the word "faggot" said on the song. CBSC made a rulling, the radio station is now complying and if they play the song again, they will play the edited version.

    Stations before may have voluntarily played the censored version. That I don't know.

    Loklar on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    How is this different in principle from blanking out the word 'fuck' or references to drugs?

    Also, I don't think it's directly analogous to Huck Finn. Similar, sure, but not precisely the same. Huck Finn is largely (primarily?) about race relations - editing out the N-word fundamentally alters dialogue crucial to the theme of the book. The word 'faggot' in Money for Nothing isn't nearly as essential.

    The narrative behind "Money for Nothing" is based on the experiences of blue collar workers in an electronics store. The line is spoken from the perspective of one of those workers, talking about his attitude toward the sort of acts (allegedly the "little faggot" specifically refers to Nikki Sixx from Mötley Crüe, and the guy banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee is Tommy Lee) he's seeing on MTV. I'm not sure that it's much different than editting a character's voice in Huck Finn.

    I recognize that there's a thematic purpose for the word 'faggot' but I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare it to N*-Jim. There may be a similar principle but the difference in magnitude is large.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • LoklarLoklar Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    How is this different in principle from blanking out the word 'fuck' or references to drugs?

    Also, I don't think it's directly analogous to Huck Finn. Similar, sure, but not precisely the same. Huck Finn is largely (primarily?) about race relations - editing out the N-word fundamentally alters dialogue crucial to the theme of the book. The word 'faggot' in Money for Nothing isn't nearly as essential.

    The narrative behind "Money for Nothing" is based on the experiences of blue collar workers in an electronics store. The line is spoken from the perspective of one of those workers, talking about his attitude toward the sort of acts (allegedly the "little faggot" specifically refers to Nikki Sixx from Mötley Crüe, and the guy banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee is Tommy Lee) he's seeing on MTV. I'm not sure that it's much different than editting a character's voice in Huck Finn.

    I recognize that there's a thematic purpose for the word 'faggot' but I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare it to N*-Jim. There may be a similar principle but the difference in magnitude is large.

    Ranking people's minority status is fun.

    Loklar on
  • adytumadytum The Inevitable Rise And FallRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Loklar wrote: »
    adytum wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    How is this different in principle from blanking out the word 'fuck' or references to drugs?

    Also, I don't think it's directly analogous to Huck Finn. Similar, sure, but not precisely the same. Huck Finn is largely (primarily?) about race relations - editing out the N-word fundamentally alters dialogue crucial to the theme of the book. The word 'faggot' in Money for Nothing isn't nearly as essential.

    I'm pretty sure (from the OP) the word is already blanked on the radio. This is a complete ban on the song being played in its usual blanked form without further editing.

    I may be confused, though, because the details aren't completely clear.

    Pretty sure you're confused.

    The complaint was made because a man heard the word "faggot" said on the song. CBSC made a rulling, the radio station is now complying and if they play the song again, they will play the edited version.

    Stations before may have voluntarily played the censored version. That I don't know.

    Ah okay. Guess I'm not outraged then. Thanks for clearing that up.

    adytum on
  • PhistiPhisti Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    My favourite censorship moment came when listening to Teenage Dirtbag by Wheatus on the radio a few weeks ago...

    They bleeped out Gun as in "Her boyfriend's a dick, he brings a _____ to school"

    Now, the message being conveyed here isn't actually bad... The song clearly indicates that bringing a gun to school makes you uncool, and by removing it's reference you don't know why the boyfriend is a dick.

    The entire concept of censorship is beyond me, now I'm not a parent yet (on the way...) but I may be changing my stance once I have an impressionable young one with me, but from what I've heard censorship is less about imagery and more about specific buzz words.

    Nickleback is for all intents and purposes awful. But, considering the amount of airplay their songs get one would think censors would examine these lyrics:

    I like your pants around your feet
    I like the dirt that's on your knees
    And I like the way you still say please
    While you're looking up at me
    You're like my favourite damn disease

    And I love the places that we go
    And I love the people that you know
    And I love the way you can't say no
    Too many long lines in a row
    I love the powder on your nose

    Don't get me wrong, as much as Nickleback is fantastically awful, I'd rather their lyrics not be censored so people can form opinions without the nanny-state telling them what they can and cannot listen to, but please and keep Gun and Faggot and all the other buzz words in songs where the images they portray are not horribly offensive.

    Phisti on
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