a thread about suits

Baron Dirigible

dear h/a I am in need of a suit

however, naturally, I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, and reading fashion forums is just further confusing me. like, apparently there's a difference between bespoke and tailor-made? I thought one was just a fancier word.

anyway: basically, the suit I have is about, um, 8 years old now? and I don't think it really fitted me properly at the time. it certainly doesn't fit me well now. I think, before my grandfather's funeral last year, the last time I'd worn the suit was to a job interview in 2008. so I'm not looking for a suit to wear regularly, if that makes a difference to anything.

basically I'm looking for ideas on where to start. I'm not asking anyone to teach me everything there is to know about suits, but if anyone could help me on a path to find out stuff for myself, that would be fantastic.

let's say my budget's AU$1000. I honestly don't know what level of quality that will get me, but I could justify spending that much if the suit's going to be an investment. I could justify spending more if necessary. I'd rather spend more and get a nice suit, than less on a suit that doesn't fit me well / looks bad / is otherwise shoddy. I'm particularly concerned about fitting, obviously, because I'm skinny and over 6' and often find it incredibly difficult to find good clothes that fit me well. (especially jeans. jeans are a nightmare for some reason.) as I said, I don't wear suits terribly often, but I don't see that as a reason to skimp out on the few times that I do wear them — which, let's face it, will probably be special occasions and times when I'd like to look (and feel) my very best.

any help would be fantastic!

BoomShake

Art of Manliness has a lot of great information on suits and general classy men's dress

Specifically Suit School Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3
Also, I think How to Build a Manly Wardrobe Part 1 and Part 2 might be a little helpful.

Inquisitor77

If you're in Melbourne, I recommend Acumen down on Yarra. I went there during my year-long secondment in Melbourne when I had to get a new suit on short notice, and have been very pleased with my purchase ever since. Frits is a nice guy, doesn't put any pressure on you, and can help you figure out what you want.

One thing about buying suits is that it's OK to have an opinion, even if you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. A good tailor will always make sure that your suit fits you properly, but he isn't the one who has to wear it - and half of wearing a suit is being confident. If you like what you're wearing, you will be confident. Even if you aren't sure of exactly what you want, it's pretty easy to try a bunch of stuff on and figure out what you don't want. Be open to trying anything and seeing what works for you. Once you have two or three different selections (enough to make it a hard choice), then think it over for a bit and bite the bullet.

Baron Dirigible

Lots to read there, BoomShake. Thanks. One thing that struck me was how they're talking about buying a jacket off-the-rack, making sure the shoulders fit, and then getting the rest of it fitted at a tailor's. Is this actually good advice? Is it possible to make a suit fit just through alterations? I mean, it makes sense that off-the-rack suits would allow for a certain degree of tailoring, but I'm finding the approach a bit dubious.

And thanks for the recommendation, Inquisitor. I am indeed in Melbourne and would like somewhere to at least start looking. My only concern with that site is how they talk about tailor-made suits etc: I assume this is the difference between bespoke and tailor-made, and they're just referring to altering a suit to fit me. Right? Or is it going to be entirely tailor-made? Basically, how much could I expect to spend there? And how much, in general, should I be looking at spending for the suit vs tailoring (in the case of the first option above, I assume they're treated seperately, and not all tailors are created equal)?

Simpsonia

Forget all this bespoke and tailor-made nonsense. Unless you are a suit connoisseur and plan on wearing it often, it won't be worth it, and you will never be able to tell the difference. You'll just be throwing away money when you could get 2-3 good off-the-rack tailored suits for the same price

Go to a good department store, like Macy's if they have them there, and check out the off-the-rack suits. Suits can be tailored to fit in every dimension except for the shoulders, also note the circumference of the legs and arms (these are harder, read: more expensive, to alter). If you find one that fits in the shoulders, your golden. Then just take it to tailor (avoid store tailors) and they should be able to do the rest. You might even get lucky like I did. I found that a particular brand (Hilfiger Slim Cut) fits me like a glove without any tailoring whatsoever.

Baron Dirigible

So, basically what I talked about up there? Which still leaves the question of how much I should budget for the tailoring step: I assume they don't work just for the love of it.

And I'm also not looking for a bespoke suit, to clarify: the only reason I'm asking about the Acumen people is so I'd know if I'd be wasting my time going there if they only do tailor-made stuff.

Zsetrek

Baron!

What you need to remember, in all situations, is to ask for a discount. They may not give you one, but I got a Versace suit for half price just by clucking my tongue and saying "that's a bit steep". It's better to start at the top and work your way down, in my opinion. You can always be pleasantly surprised by a quality suit going for cheap.

I fucking love Herringbone. Australian, beautiful quality construction, bold colours and conservative cuts. They also make slim suits that fit rake-men such as ourselves. My first suit was a Herringbone, and it's only just starting to get worn now, three years down the road. And that's with wearing it nearly every second day. There's a Herringbone store in Melbourne - can't quite remember where it is, though.

But, in general, the key is to go to a menswear store and ask to try shit on. Don't feel compelled to buy something just because the shop attendant wants to sell you something. Find someone helpful, ask them to get you something that will fit well. If they're muppets, move on.

Inquisitor77

Acumen does both tailor-made suits and off-the-rack. The suit I purchased was off-the-rack, and then tailored to fit. A tailoring process is pretty much mandatory for any suit you buy, so it's typically included in the price at most places (although I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions). I don't recall paying extra for tailoring with Acumen.

Don't feel any pressure to buy, regardless of where you go. You can always wander around the CBD and walk into any of the stores with suits on display, and I'm sure someone will be happy to help you figure out what to buy. If you end up liking the suit at a particular places, you can always go back and buy it later.

Improvolone

We have Nordstrom in the states (an upscale department store) which means we also have Nordstrom Rack which is where they send a lot of their old stock. Not only does Nordstrom carry some really well made stuff, but once they hit the Rack their prices are most excellent.

brain operator

Regardless of what you spend, unless it's absolutely dirt cheap (which I wouldn't recommend), make sure it's conservative in both cut and colour. Since it's going to be your one good suit, it has to be appropriate for weddings, funerals, job interviews, ... Keep that in mind.

KalTorak

Improvolone wrote: »

We have Nordstrom in the states (an upscale department store) which means we also have Nordstrom Rack which is where they send a lot of their old stock. Not only does Nordstrom carry some really well made stuff, but once they hit the Rack their prices are most excellent.

Yes, this. If you have a Nordstrom Rack in your area definitely check it out.

Depending on your budget, you might want to keep an eye on the chain suit stores in your area (Mens Wearhouse, Jos. A Banks, etc.); never go in there unless they're having a big-ass sale, but when shit is marked down its not bad. Obviously places like that set the prices high so they can mark them down later, so definitely shop around at Macys, Nordstrom Rack, even thrift stores (you might get lucky), but as long as you're not paying full-price it's not a bad idea to look at the suit places, and they'll often do the tailoring for free.

Casually Hardcore

Well, I usually recommend this for people who wants a good suit at a sub $1000 price tag (be sure to wait for a sale)

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=574&Product_Id=1493532&Parent_Id=418&default_color=GREY&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=#null

But, seeing how you're in in Australia, I'm not sure if you can get them easily.

Also, your first suit should be charcoal. Charcoal, NOT BLACK!

DAMN IT DONT BUY A BLACK SUIT AS YOUR FIRST SUIT!

KalTorak

But I'm a galaxy defender!

Simpsonia

Baron Dirigible wrote: »

So, basically what I talked about up there? Which still leaves the question of how much I should budget for the tailoring step: I assume they don't work just for the love of it.

And I'm also not looking for a bespoke suit, to clarify: the only reason I'm asking about the Acumen people is so I'd know if I'd be wasting my time going there if they only do tailor-made stuff.

Since I avoid store tailors like the plague (they are usually cheap like US$100 to tailor the entire suit) but do shitty jobs, and you often never even meet them, the measurements usually being taken by the salesman. Find a local tailor who can work on suits (not all places can), but yeah probably expect to pay around US$150 to have the whole thing tailored.

EggyToast

My quick suit advice is that you should go to a place with a lot of suits and try some on. That way, you can see the different materials, cuts, and patterns/colors, as well as get a feel for what fits. Yes, for most people buying a suit "off the rack" and having alterations done is fine -- the spacing between suits is usually pretty normal, and they're intended to be altered to fit you in the arms, waist, and legs.

So in general the things to look for aren't so much the fit as the cut. If you're a bigger person you might want pleated pants, or if you're more in shape you probably want a plain front. How many buttons on the jacket? What type of lapels? That's why it's good to go to a store so you can see the different options.

And yes, don't be afraid to ask about the price and say you can't afford something, because most will be willing to work with you a little bit. Alterations are sometimes included but when they're not they're usually inexpensive -- I just had a suit altered and it was $35 and she did a really great job. She was the tailor at the place who sold the suit and did the measurements herself (and went through the options I could have done, such as how the legs would be cut or whether the pants actually fit), and don't be afraid to speak up (and don't be afraid to defer to the tailor). I don't have Simpsonia's fear of tailors but his advice that the measurements should be done by the actual tailor is definitely true.

Serpent

Why do you need a suit.

This is an important question and influences what you should be looking for.

Are you trying to be stylish? Are you going to interview? Do you need it for a performance?

Baron Dirigible

Serpent wrote: »

Why do you need a suit.

This is an important question and influences what you should be looking for.

Are you trying to be stylish? Are you going to interview? Do you need it for a performance?

I've been watching a lot of Mad Men and want to be Don Draper.

... no, really, I just need a suit because I need to own a suit. Like brain operator said, this is going to be my only suit, so I'll be looking for something conservative that will work for funerals, job interviews and looking flash for the lady.

There's some great advice in this thread. Thanks, guys. My plan of attack is to head into the city on my day off on Tuesday, check out this Herringbone place and then head down to Acumen, as well as popping into whatever other stores look promising.

November Fifth

The advice goes for mainly for the U.S. so take it with a grain of salt.

If you only own one suit, it should be navy.

Your second suit should be charcoal or possibly gray. This suit could have a conservative pin stripe.

Your third suit should be whatever suit you liked when you were buying your navy and charcoal suits.

I have personally never had any luck with alterations, so I would either try to find a suit which fit fairly well off the rack or go whole hog and go to a tailor that will make a suit for you.

I'd look for a good Hong Kong or possibly Indian based tailor shop. You should be able to get a custom made suit and shirts for less that $1000 AU.

Baron Dirigible

Why navy? Why not charcoal? For that matter, why not black at all? I mean, I'm not trying to dispute your advice, but some reasons would help.

kaliyama

People like for there to be rules because then you can feel knowledgable adhering to them. The advice then gets recited like a catechism. The truth to fashion is that you can wear whatever you want as long as you look good doing it. So as you get more confident sartorially you can feel free to deviate from orthodoxy. For example, I think pin stripes are ugly guido-looking things and I don't want to risk attempting them. Tim Gunn, with his eye and budget, has worn some excellent ones on camera.

There's no reason to prefer charcoal over navy. The black thing people talk about because historically black was seen as a more formal color and the province of undertakers. It's arbitrary and not a "rule" any more. I'd still tend to go navy or charcoal for a first suit, but don't feel like you can't wear a black suit to the office if it fits you well and you look good in it. I have a charcoal suit I like to wear to court, a navy suit i'll tend to wear if the other one is in the dry cleaner or i'm on a boat or a garden party or something, and a red suit when I go to vegas. I'll wear a black suit if I am going out on a date after work. I am in a fairly stuffy, though not formal, work environment, and don't encounter any problems.

scrivenerjones

a red suit, huh

are there pictures?

Blake T

If you are going buy a single suit buy charcol, you can wear all number of colours with it and is better for formal occasions. I currently have two navy pinstripe and a black pin stripe. The two navy suits have both differnt thickness of strips and difference in colour

If you do get a tailored suit you will wear it more often because you will look good in it. I've had fitted suit and they honestly don't compare.

The best way to buy a suit is to honestly scrape together another grand and go to phuket for a holiday and get some tailored there. If you know some people that live there ask them. If not, ask the hotel. The hotel will be far more expensive (around $350 dollars a suit rather than anywhere where from about $150, for a decent one and up, you will be able to get them made for around 70 dollars, but they really aren't that good).

Plus hey free holiday.

illig

I wouldn't spend that much on a suit if you're only goin to wear it once every few months. Buy a $2-300 off the rack suit instead and have it altered (although I find a lot of the suit separates nowadays fit well right off the rack. )

I say this BC styles change, and your 8 year old suit will stick out just when you need it to look good and professional. A few years back, for example, suits were worn loose, and pants often had pleats. If you come to an interview now in an oversize suit with pleated pants (or God help you - a double breasted jacket) you'll look like someone who has no idea how to dress, no matter if that suit was an expensive designer piece originally.

If you buy well fitted but inexpensive suits instead, you wont feel bad about replacing them when the need arises.

Serpent

If you buy ONE suit you should buy the most 'timeless', least 'stylish', suit you can find. Styles change.

This suit should be a navy or even darker (midnight blue) suit. 3 buttons, NO pin stripes (pin stripes are style. how thick? what colour? should the stripes on the pockets match the rest of the suit? etc.), and it should fit well. You will ALWAYS look good in this suit and you would've looked good 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 30 years ago.

2nd choice would be charcoal.

Once you have at least one of these suits, then you can start looking at 'stylish' suits.

scrivenerjones

3 button suits aren't flattering on anyone mate. unless it's a 3-roll-2 which I doubt he's going to find at nordstrom or whatever. also charcoal and mid-gray are more flattering than navy for like 99% of complexions.

Septus

I've not heard any sparkling recommendations from people locally, about entirely re-tailoring suits, that would look good and not cost an asston(like over $100). I think any off the rack suit that would fit me in the shoulders, has legs and waits that are too big around, which I think would involve ripping apart nearly every seam and redoing it. Meanwhile, I think the coats too, at the right shoulder size, never really fit tightly enough around my chest, even with the store doing their own taking in of the back part of the coat.

Am I just way wrong?

Improvolone

I would look like I just came off of a Yacht in a navy suit. Charcoal/grey looks great on me.
But don't get black unless you live in Japan, they love black suits.

edit to above: I wouldn't balk at $100 to properly tailor a suit.

Comahawk

One thing to remember: Make sure the tie matches the color of the jacket and your shirt. Example, Navy suit with a white shirt, have a tie with some navy and white on it.

I'm not sure if it is a new fashion I just don't get, but I see a lot of people wandering around with ties that in no way fit their suit and shirt, and frankly, it looks stupid. I am not really knowledgeable about fashion, but even I notice and snicker at that mistake.

scrivenerjones

No you're wrong sorry. Your tie can complement the rest of your outfit, it doesn't have to "match," and this has been true literally forever.

Improvolone

So all of those gold power ties can only be worn with gold suits? Dude, what?

Blake T

Most places that sell the suit will also offer tailoring services.

Also unless you are short do not get three buttons. It will make you look like an incredibly tall man in a set of pajamas.

Baron Dirigible

I wouldn't spend that much on a suit if you're only goin to wear it once every few months. Buy a $2-300 off the rack suit instead and have it altered (although I find a lot of the suit separates nowadays fit well right off the rack. )

Noted. I should add that a grand is just what I'm comfortable paying without having much idea about cost, fitting, etc. I'm not going to walk into a store and find the closest price to what I'm willing to pay.

At the same time I don't want to buy something I'm not happy wearing even if it's a fraction of the cost, and given the other responses in this thread I'm not buying the argument that it'd go out of style too quickly. (Assuming I follow their advice and buy something conservative.)

Blake, I'd love to go overseas to get a tailored suit, but it's not something I'd be able to do for at least another year. Maybe for my next suit, when this one helps me land a job that lets me travel more freely!

useless4

Comahawk wrote: »

One thing to remember: Make sure the tie matches the color of the jacket and your shirt. Example, Navy suit with a white shirt, have a tie with some navy and white on it.

I'm not sure if it is a new fashion I just don't get, but I see a lot of people wandering around with ties that in no way fit their suit and shirt, and frankly, it looks stupid. I am not really knowledgeable about fashion, but even I notice and snicker at that mistake.

You would hate me. I am all about rocking black suits with brown shirts with brown shoes and belts and ties at the moment. They match but they match in the universal "no trying to match brown and black"

scrivenerjones

I don't hate you but you shouldn't wear brown shirts

taliosfalcon

I'd just like to throw out that i've had very good luck with indochino (have three suits from them) They don't really compare to a nice 1500+ suit of course, but they're far superior to tailored off the racks in my experience for a similar price. Just make sure you stay away from the polyester

Baron Dirigible

OKAY

so

I went to Herringbone. The guy there was super helpful and found me a nice charcoal number that fitted me well. It had a 2&1/2 button jacket, which is apparently a thing. The suit and jacket combined ran about a thousand dollars, not including alterations, which for some reason aren't included in the price, despite the fact that all their pants are unhemmed.

Then I went to Acumen, where the guy found me more conservative 3-button charcoal number by Rembrandt with very faint pinstripes. It ran $500, down from $650, but I honestly wasn't as taken with the fit -- the shoulders in particular seemed too wide, although in his view it wasn't a problem, and the pants were pleated, which I'm honestly also not sure about.

I suspect I was just impressed by the Herringbone because it was the first suit I tried on, and didn't have anything to judge it by. I'm kicking myself for not taking pictures of each.

I was more impressed with the service at Acumen — Frits was very friendly, helpful, wasn't pushy, and stocked more than the one label. I get the idea he'd also be much more helpful as far as shirts, ties, and colour co-ordination goes. But I did feel good wearing Herringbone. But it is twice the price. So, now I'm torn.

Return to arguing about fashion minutae if you want!

Blake T

How tall are you dude.

I have nothing against three button suits.

But if you are too tall you look silly.

Did you tell the guy at the store how much you were willing to spend? It may have been why you ended up with a thousand dollar suit, because you told him you have a thousand dollars. Next time tell him you are looking in the range of 5-700 that'll give you room to move if you find something you like.

Improvolone

Did you tell the guy, "Look, this is about $300 more than I was willing to spend. Do you have regular sales, old stock, or just another suggestion?"

Baron Dirigible

Blake T wrote: »

How tall are you dude.

I have nothing against three button suits.

But if you are too tall you look silly.

6'3" or so. Tall, but not outlandishly so. Most of that's legs.

Did you tell the guy at the store how much you were willing to spend? It may have been why you ended up with a thousand dollar suit, because you told him you have a thousand dollars.

I didn't mention price at either place (at first, I mean). I get the impression Herringbone is just more expensive all round. I did ask about sales — they have a 30% off sale going at the time — but this was one of their "core" suits that apparently never goes on sale, and I didn't really like the ones that were on sale.

They do have another store in the city that apparently has a wider selection, so I'm thinking I'll try there next, just to reacquaint myself with the suit, and see if they do have anything cheaper there.

Blake T

Go to the other store. And tell them your price range. Or at the very least, say I don't want to spend that much.

Baron Dirigible

See, you're going to have to spell this all out for me: are you suggesting I follow Zsetrek's advice and try to haggle? Or just to see what else they have in a lower pricerange?

I mean, I did like that suit. But it was also the first suit I tried on. I mainly want to try it on again to see if I still like it, and then check out some other places now that I have some kind of baseline.