Will 360 RPG's make a dent?

Johannen

Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are looking like some pretty sweet upcoming RPG's.

They will have to fight the FF series and all the coming forms thereof, also the love of nintendo RPG's will have to be battled. White Knight Story is going to be a monster to be slayed.

Is there any thoughts on if the 360 will make a dent with it's platform exclusive RPG's?



Also, how fucking sweet does Dragon Age for the PC look?

slash000

Make a dent in what? In getting more people to buy the system to play RPGs?


Blue Dragon is a good start, but it's going to take a fuck of a lot more than that to get more of an rpg crowd buying games on the system, especially in Japan (but that's obvious).


I almost feel as though a game can't succeed massively well on the 360 if it isn't gritty, realistic, and a shooter; or a sports/racing game (it might do okay, though, I'm sure). But perhaps the Live Arcade titles are making up for some of that which it lacks; although more full-fledged, published games would be nice.

Frosteey

What kind of scale are we talking about? The impact on the entire console competition? RPGs on a global scale? Or just RPGs in the West?

The simplest answer I'll give is that it's a step in the right direction, and a step that would've been stupid not to make. The XBox lack of RPGs was kind of like the Nintendo lack of online(maybe to a lesser extent, but the same idea). They're tapping a market with a large fanbase, and all signs point towards being at least reasonably successful. I'd save saying anything else until more comes out.

Johannen

I'm talking about a step in the direction of winning the votes of many RPG fans who have stayed away from the Xbox and the 360 due to them distinctly lacking in quality RPG titles.

Slash: I agree with your thoughts on how the 360 games don't seem to succeed on the 360 if they aren't gritty, realistic, and a shooter; or a sports/racing game.

EDIT: Also, do you think that a Microsoft console will be able to truly crack the RPG loving Japanese market?

cloudeagle

Blue Dragon didn't create a rush of 360 sales in Japan as Microsoft was hoping, if that's what you're asking.

It'll probably do a bit better over here, though I'll be surprised if it gets anywhere near Final Fantasy status.

Lunker

There was a similar discussion midway through the other JRPGs thread -- start here, around page 8 -- and the gist of it was that it was kind of presumptuous to assume that because PS2 was the go-to RPG machine that the PS3 will automatically have all of the JRPGs and the 360 will have none. Besides the FF13 juggernaut and White Knight Story, there's actually more 360-exclusive JRPGs than PS3 ones right now, IIRC.

I'm curious to see where JRPGs end up; I honestly don't think there's going to be one JRPG factory, so I'd expect to see a fair number of them across 360, PS3 and Wii ... and DS. Let's not forget the big DQ9 shake-up.

darleysam

cloudeagle wrote:

Blue Dragon didn't create a rush of 360 sales in Japan as Microsoft was hoping, if that's what you're asking.

It'll probably do a bit better over here, though I'll be surprised if it gets anywhere near Final Fantasy status.

i would wager that it's partly because it's just not a game with history. I've not played Blue Dragon, so it might suck, but if there had been a series of Blue Dragon games before, say, that people had played and loved, then there's probably a greater chance that people would consider picking up a 360 for it (i am more than aware that these are hypothetical aspersions, and so nowhere near anything approaching fact or reasoned argument).
Basically, i guess they need to create a fond series, not just a one-off title and hope it'll sell a system. Give people a whole series of well-made RPGs, and they'll have people buying in to the console to go back and pick up what they missed out on.

edit: for example, while White Knight Story has got a lot of people excited, i would imagine it could be a better game than FFXIII, and yet more people would buy a PS3 for XIII.

BaronVonSnakPak

theyll make a dent in my wallet.

so that counts for something.

Just Like That

Mass Effect

ShimSham

Tobasco wrote:

Mass Effect

... will have a MASSIVE EFFECT.


OH HO HO I AM ON FIRE

Pancake

I'm pretty sure Mass Effect isn't the sort of RPG that's being discussed since the Japanese have never seemed to take much of a liking to western developed RPGs. It's not just an art style difference.

ToadTheMushroom

[imghttp://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6231/masseffectboxmu7.jpg[/img]

Why hello there!

Edit: Beat'd.

Im already looking forward to it.

Johannen

ToadTheMushroom wrote:

Why hello there!

Edit: Beat'd.

Im already looking forward to it.

Will this really pull over Japanese gamers though?

Cokomon

ShimSham wrote:

Tobasco wrote:

Mass Effect

... will have a MASSIVE EFFECT.


OH HO HO I AM ON FIRE

He's heating up.

Boomshackalacka

ToadTheMushroom

Johannen wrote:

ToadTheMushroom wrote:

[imghttp://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6231/masseffectboxmu7.jpg[/img]

Why hello there!

Edit: Beat'd.

Im already looking forward to it.

Will this really pull over Japanese gamers though?

No.

But who gives a shit. Im willing to throw caution to the wind and call it 07 GOTY already, based on what little we have seen.

Thats right, the same year Halo 3, Bioshock and Crysis are released, Ill be slobbering over Mass Effect more.

I mean its like Kotor, only not star wars, and completely fuckawesome.

Johannen

ToadTheMushroom wrote:

Johannen wrote:

ToadTheMushroom wrote:

[imghttp://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6231/masseffectboxmu7.jpg[/img]

Why hello there!

Edit: Beat'd.

Im already looking forward to it.

Will this really pull over Japanese gamers though?

No.

But who gives a shit. Im willing to throw caution to the wind and call it 07 GOTY already, based on what little we have seen.

Thats right, the same year Halo 3, Bioshock and Crysis are released, Ill be slobbering over Mass Effect more.

I mean its like Kotor, only not star wars, and completely fuckawesome.

Isn't there a next-gen star wars on the horizon anyway?

Also, even if this does get a lot of 360 owners to buy it, it still probably doesn't have the power to pull over patrons of the other consoles.

VacuumJockey

There aren't that many good RPG's for the PS3 yet, so if a lot of good RPG's came out for the 360 now and in the near future, who knows? The DS looks more like the RPG system right now.

I think that more conventional action games, with RPG elements added -- like Crackdown and Huxley -- will be the bread and butter of the 360. But nothing is certain at this point.

Zoolander

I think MS has run out of cards to play in Japan. I'd love to be wrong, but I think it's all downhill from here.

Hopefully the system has a healthy dose of good RPGs. Since I mostly prefer Western RPGs, I'm not too worried just because Japan's not on board.

bruin

Honestly, I want Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey, and Blue Dragon more than FF13 or White Knight Story or any other announced JRPG. Are they going to make a big difference in the video game market? 360 sales in Japan are still horrid, but they're 3-400+% better than they were before Blue Dragon, and now new 360 games are making it onto the weekly top 30 pretty frequently. I'd wager that a decent number of gamers in the rest of the world will "jump in" too because of these titles, or at least partially because of them.

Neo Rasa

Zoolander wrote:

I think MS has run out of cards to play in Japan. I'd love to be wrong, but I think it's all downhill from here.

Hopefully the system has a healthy dose of good RPGs. Since I mostly prefer Western RPGs, I'm not too worried just because Japan's not on board.

Blue Dragon seems to be a (very small) system seller. With that in mind I'd think any further JRPGs that come out will be automatic sells to anyone that got that Blue Dragon bundle. So again I do for see a very, very slow but steady increase. Honestly years from now, when the third XBox type system comes out I think that's when we'll see the brand be a factor in Japan.

nexuscrawler

Buncha Sony fanboys over there

Couscous

nexuscrawler wrote:

Buncha Sony fanboys over there

Then why isn't the PS3 doing that well?

bruin

Stolen from GAF

First spike is 360 launch, second is Blue Dragon release.


Over the next couple weeks after than it went down steadily, and has since be around 7-9,000 each week. There'll likely be a similar surge when Lost Odyssey comes out.

I agree with Neo Rasa, they'll slowly working their way into the market, and could definitely be a contender there eventually.

fragglefart

Mmm... Mass Effect. That game is going to be so damned good.

Zombiemambo

bruin wrote:

Stolen from GAF

First spike is 360 launch, second is Blue Dragon release.


Over the next couple weeks after than it went down steadily, and has since be around 7-9,000 each week. There'll likely be a similar surge when Lost Odyssey comes out.

I agree with Neo Rasa, they'll slowly working their way into the market, and could definitely be a contender there eventually.

7~9,000, huh? I figured they sold one, maybe two 360s a week.

fragglefart

Is Project Sylpheed ever getting a Western release?!

Arkady

I can't speak for the market but I can say that up until I read more about blue dragon, I had no intentions of getting a 360. RPG's (mainly jrpg, but but do love me some kotor and torment) are my favorite genre and the complete lack of them on the 360 kept me away from the system. Now though, it will more than likely be the first next gen system I own.

BTP

This thread just sparked a question in my mind. Please do not take this as a troll or use it to derail the thread. This is asking for your help to break any misconceptions I may have.

Think of the entire Xbox 360 library. Now get rid of all the shooters........now the yearly sports games........and the street racing games (though stuff like Moto GP can stay)......what's left?

I can think of Enchanted Arms, Viva Pinata, DOA 4, DOAX 2, Table Tennis, Top Spin 2, Amped 3, Oblivion......and that's it right now.

And don't say the Burger King games as well.

That just doesn't seem like much to me.

Bionic Monkey

Condemned. Blazing Angels. Dead Rising.

That's just that I own.

Steel Angel

Pancake wrote:

I'm pretty sure Mass Effect isn't the sort of RPG that's being discussed since the Japanese have never seemed to take much of a liking to western developed RPGs. It's not just an art style difference.

Wizardry seems to be an exception for some reason. I have no freaking clue why. If someone figures it out, that could be ammo for penetrating the Japanese market . . . with the downside that Wizardry might not penetrate here.

Neo Rasa

Steel Angel wrote:

Pancake wrote:

I'm pretty sure Mass Effect isn't the sort of RPG that's being discussed since the Japanese have never seemed to take much of a liking to western developed RPGs. It's not just an art style difference.

Wizardry seems to be an exception for some reason. I have no freaking clue why.

NES and early PC ports of Wizardry provided then unheard of depth of gameplay and plot development in Japan. Interestingly it's notable that the oldest RPGs in Japan (going back to the early eighties) were indeed directly inspired by things such as Ultima and so on. Oh man look at the awesome Dungeon Magic that Taito made, a first person dungeon crawler ARCADE GAME. NES version came here and is totally rad.

This sort of game caught on. It has a small but super dedicated following in Japan. As an example, many Ultima franchise games got console ports in Japan that never made it over here, and the most recent Wizardry game came out on the PS2 about three years ago.

Companies like Falcom have also enjoyed success at re-releasing/remaking their early to mid eighties RPGs several times over for the PC/Saturn/etc. up until even all the Ys games getting (in some cases multiple!) remakes for the PS2 as well as stuff like Dinosaur Resurrection getting made for the PC.

Another incredible title that never made it here is Wizardry Saga for the Super Famicom. It's the first three Wizardry games compiled onto one Super Famicom cartridge. The games are mostly identical to the originals but the graphics and music are completely redone. It even lets you import your characters from one installment to another.

I always found this intruiging, right now the genre is probably more popular there than it is here. Hell check out Deep Labyrinth and Etrian Oddyssey. I'm willing to bet at the end of the day sales will have been better in Japan on both counts. The flopping of Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken City in the US (vs. it going greatest hits in Japan and even getting a Wizardry.5 type upgrade) evidences this even more.

Microsoft has the super hardcore gamers in Japan covered, they already all own 360s. It would be wise for them to somehow get Wizardry and other such games on their en masse. Even as Live Arcade releases. An Ultima or Falcom compilation as an example, would not be a huge system seller but it would definitely put anyone on the fence about the system over it.

Hamurabi

After reading a little more about Blue Dragon in GI [shuddup, my brother bought it and it was just lying around...], I can't help but lean over on this here fence about whether or not to get a 360...

Woodroez

BTP wrote:

This thread just sparked a question in my mind. Please do not take this as a troll or use it to derail the thread. This is asking for your help to break any misconceptions I may have.

Think of the entire Xbox 360 library. Now get rid of all the shooters........now the yearly sports games........and the street racing games (though stuff like Moto GP can stay)......what's left?

I can think of Enchanted Arms, Viva Pinata, DOA 4, DOAX 2, Table Tennis, Top Spin 2, Amped 3, Oblivion......and that's it right now.

And don't say the Burger King games as well.

That just doesn't seem like much to me.

Bionic Monkey wrote:

Condemned. Blazing Angels. Dead Rising.

N3, LotR: Battle for Middle Earth 2, Fusion Frenzy 2....

Anyway, do NOT, do NOT discount XBL Arcade. The games don't always have the depth of retail games, sure, but there's a lot of solid gold to be had; I personally own and love Geometry Wars and Bankshot Billiards 2, and there's several games on the horizon that will undoubtedly end up in my collection.

fragglefart

Woodroez wrote:

BTP wrote:

This thread just sparked a question in my mind. Please do not take this as a troll or use it to derail the thread. This is asking for your help to break any misconceptions I may have.

Think of the entire Xbox 360 library. Now get rid of all the shooters........now the yearly sports games........and the street racing games (though stuff like Moto GP can stay)......what's left?

I can think of Enchanted Arms, Viva Pinata, DOA 4, DOAX 2, Table Tennis, Top Spin 2, Amped 3, Oblivion......and that's it right now.

And don't say the Burger King games as well.

That just doesn't seem like much to me.

Bionic Monkey wrote:

Condemned. Blazing Angels. Dead Rising.

N3, LotR: Battle for Middle Earth 2, Fusion Frenzy 2....

Anyway, do NOT, do NOT discount XBL Arcade. The games don't always have the depth of retail games, sure, but there's a lot of solid gold to be had; I personally own and love Geometry Wars and Bankshot Billiards 2, and there's several games on the horizon that will undoubtedly end up in my collection.

Yeah, Arcade is totally awesome. Uno & Texas Hold 'em rock. Why would you get rid of shooters, sports games and racers?! The three most popular games types on the platform.

I mean do Tony Hawks : Project 8, WWE Smackdown vs Raw 2007, World Snooker Championship 2007, and Fight Night Round 3 count as sports games? Does Splinter Cell : Double Agent or Hitman : Blood Money count as a "shooter" to you? Tomb Raider : Legend, Just Cause, Saints Row, Lego Star Wars II, Kameo : Elements of Power, Marvel : Ultimate Alliance, Peter Jackson's King Kong (the ape parts), Rumble Roses XX, Final Fantasy XI, Star Trek : Legacy, Phantasy Star : Universe. There are other horrible titles, like Sonic, Xmen III, Dynasty Warriors 5 : Empires, Samuri Warriors 2, Eragon, but I wouldn't go near those. Coming up we have Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, Blue Dragon, Crackdown, Banjo Kazooie 3, Guitar Hero II, Eternal Sonata, Fable 2, Command & Conquer 3 : Tiberium Wars, Monster Madness, Def Jam Icon, GTA4, Alan Wake, Resident Evil 5, Dance Dance Revolution Universe etc etc.

Does this prove a point? The thing has only been out a year, and you are discounting some of the most popular and profitable genres, ie those that publishers will be most happy to get on shelves (heaven forbit they try and make a profit from a relatively small userbase and relatively specific demographic!) this doesn't make them any less of a game when they end up being good!

I mean, the three types of game you want to remove include many of the greatest titles, does it really matter that they are "shooters, drivers" etc? I mean there are other Eastern-only releases that I have not mentioned, are you just trying to get at why the platform isn't doing that great in japan, or something?

I guess shooters, racers, sports are more of a Western thing but games like Gears of War, Lost Planet, GRAW, GRAW 2, Rainbow 6 : Vegas, PD0, Battlefield 2, COD2, COD3, Chromehounds, FEAR, Far Cry Instincts : Predator, Perfect Dark Zero, Quake 4, Prey, The Outfit, Project Gotham Racing 3, Test Drive Unlimited, Ridge Racer 6, Burnout 4: Revenge, Need for Speed Carbon & Most Wanted, a bunch of FIFAs, PES6, Maddens, NBA 2Ks, NBA Lives, Football Manager, NHLs and NHL 2Ks still all add up to some meaty gaming awesomeness, and a pretty diverse range of gaming experiences. Not to mention Halo 3, Unreal Tournament 3 and Bioshock would probably get lumped in "shooters" there, all of which should be pretty awesome games regardless of thir genre, and are amongst the most-anticipated games of the year.

There are a range of game types available, which should diversify as the platform matures and the userbase diversifies. I'm almost surprised there is already anything but shooters, racers, sports games at this stage, heh! There are also a bunch of Eastern games coming/already out that I have not listed as I don't know a lot about them, and a tonne of other "shooters, sports, racers" coming out in the next few months which I think people would be foolish to skip on some kind of genre-principle, also many games are in the pipework for XBLArcade, on top of the dozens that are already there.

Since the platform is prety much tailor made for the Live multiplayer experience which lends itself so well to the exact genres and sub-genres you wish to discount, and the single player demographic will usually buy games of these genres, it isn't exactly surprising that there are only a few other games around after the first year. It would be kind of like saying, "what games are there for Wii, that don't use that waggle thing. Oh and I don't care about party games, or the retro VC. There don't seem very many at all" it pretty much misses the point entirely!

Roshin

BTP wrote:

Think of the entire Xbox 360 library. Now get rid of all the shooters........now the yearly sports games........and the street racing games (though stuff like Moto GP can stay)......what's left?

Taking away the most popular genres will leave you with little else, of course. I don't think this applies exclusively to the 360's library, though.

RainbowDespair

BTP wrote:

Think of the entire Xbox 360 library. Now get rid of all the shooters........now the yearly sports games........and the street racing games (though stuff like Moto GP can stay)......what's left?

The 360 library has much more variety in it than people give it credit for.

I own a 360. I own the following retail games:

Gears of War (Shooter)
Dead Rising (Action/Adventure)
Burnout: Revenge (more of an explosion simulator than a racer)
Kameo (Action/Adventure)
Enchant Arms (RPG)

and the following XBLA games:

Lumines Live (Puzzle)
Heavy Weapon (Action)
Geometry Wars (Action)
Mutant Storm (Action)
Defender (Classic Arcade)
Ms. Pacman (Classic Aracade)

If I had more money, I'd pick up Marvel: Ultimate Alliance (Action/RPG), Lost Planet (Shooter), Battlestations: Midway (Action/Strategy), and Condemned (Survival Horror). Later this year, I plan on buying Guitar Hero 2 (Music), Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (Action/RPG), Castle Crashers (Beat-em'up), Worms (Strategy), Monster Mayhem (Action/Adventure), Bioshock (Shooter/RPG/Horror), Blue Dragon (RPG), Mass Effect (RPG), Eternal Sonata (RPG), and Alan Wake (Survival Horror).

Yeah, the 360 still doesn't have the massive library that the PS2 has, but then again, the PS2 has been out for 6 times as long.

Cokomon

Roshin wrote:

BTP wrote:

Think of the entire Xbox 360 library. Now get rid of all the shooters........now the yearly sports games........and the street racing games (though stuff like Moto GP can stay)......what's left?

Taking away the most popular genres will leave you with little else, of course. I don't think this applies exclusively to the 360's library, though.

Yeah, take the Gamecube or Nintendo 64 libraries and take away all the Nintendo games and non-exclusive 3rd party titles and...well, see what I did there?

Fiaryn

I for one can't really understand the interest in Blue Dragon. I look at the screens and think, "Hey look at those DBZ characters with ever so "subtly" altered appearances...well that doesn't bode well."

Balefuego

Fiaryn wrote:

I for one can't really understand the interest in Blue Dragon. I look at the screens and think, "Hey look at those DBZ characters with ever so "subtly" altered appearances...well that doesn't bode well."

Aoi

Balefuego wrote:

Fiaryn wrote:

I for one can't really understand the interest in Blue Dragon. I look at the screens and think, "Hey look at those DBZ characters with ever so "subtly" altered appearances...well that doesn't bode well."

Not to mention every Dragon Quest title ever made.

Fiaryn

Interestingly enough the Dragon Quest games didn't do anything for me, I'm the sort who feels the "the old style does not necessarily equal good". Chrono Trigger I found to be fun but not really great.