The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
Please vote in the Forum Structure Poll. Polling will close at 2PM EST on January 21, 2025.
Skyrim: E3 gameplay in OP and no the Dark Brotherhood isn't gone
Makes the whole game feel like more of a Pen and Paper RPG with gory scenes now and then instead of a shooter.
That sounds like a good thing for an RPG, though...
As for Skyrim, if there isn't location-specific damage, it'll be in a mod. In Oblivion, Deadly Reflex let you decapitate people, chop off their hands at the wrist, etc.
And have a chance for arrows to hit people in the throat killing them straight away. Always fun to do it on essential characters, in my game the dancer in Sheogorath's throne room is knelt on the ground with a constant stream of blood pouring from her throat.
Makes the whole game feel like more of a Pen and Paper RPG with gory scenes now and then instead of a shooter.
That sounds like a good thing for an RPG, though...
As for Skyrim, if there isn't location-specific damage, it'll be in a mod. In Oblivion, Deadly Reflex let you decapitate people, chop off their hands at the wrist, etc.
And have a chance for arrows to hit people in the throat killing them straight away. Always fun to do it on essential characters, in my game the dancer in Sheogorath's throne room is knelt on the ground with a constant stream of blood pouring from her throat.
I've installed Oblivion with mods so many times and always come away forgetting this one. Dammit.
Makes the whole game feel like more of a Pen and Paper RPG with gory scenes now and then instead of a shooter.
That sounds like a good thing for an RPG, though...
As for Skyrim, if there isn't location-specific damage, it'll be in a mod. In Oblivion, Deadly Reflex let you decapitate people, chop off their hands at the wrist, etc.
Oh sorry I didn't mean to say it was bad per se; I just don't like it as a shooter. Objectively (as far as possible) I think both new Fallout games are pretty good, despite some flaws like zooming faces or bugs etc. and even those can ironed out by mods, mostly.
Hopefully they won't do it by selling them as DLC. Which I could imagine them doing (Want a better UI? Pay 50 MS points, it would sell like candy).
Packages of mods as free DLC packs would be delicious.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
0
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Well, that's probably what would happen, since that's what they did with the L4D DLC. However, if they were something low like 1-3 dollars, I'd pay for gibs, more realistic combat, or a new companion.
5$? Only if they're really good. 10$? Fuck that noise.
The free package DLC stuff would be the best, but I see a small chance of that happening.
Oblivion is a game in which, when told to assassinate a city guard, you can do so by using a specific combination of mind control spells to force him to drown himself. That on it's own makes Oblivion a great game.
What? :shock:
As far as OOO, I didn't really like it. It seemed too far from the main settings for me.
IIRC OOO just unfucked the scaling, made the rooms feel lived in, and un-cookie cuttered the dungeons. I know there were a million little bits all worked into OOO, but I just remember feeling like it made the game playable, if not making a total rescue. ::Morrowind related grognard statement here::
e~ That clip is great.
fadingathedges on
0
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
OR ya'll can just...
Buy it for the PC and wait for the modding community to take the game out of Beta and make it half decent?
Casually Hardcore on
0
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Buy it for the PC and wait for the modding community to take the game out of Beta and make it half decent?
Not everyone has a rocking PC, or some just prefer certain games on consoles and couches and big televisions.
Oblivion definitely needed mods to make it playable for a lot of people, myself included, but Bethesda seems like a company that listens to their fans. After all, they fixed a lot of issues that I had with Oblivion in Fallout 3 and Skyrim looks to continue that trend. The only mods I ever really used with Fallout 3 were companion and extra weapon mods (although, not surprisingly, most of the companion mods released were beautiful women - or cat people - eager to get naked for you). If Skyrim has companions and Bethesda mentions they're including a lot more loot in the game then they've ever had before, I see nothing wrong with playing it on console. The definite version will still be on PC, of course, but the console versions may not feel like an unfinished package this time around.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
0
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
The Super Meat Boy devs managed some kind of workaround via a loophole, didn't they?
I thought you could release your first DLC for free, but everything after has to be paid. Also, this rule only applies until it doesn't. Some games get away with more than one free DLC release, and I'm sure it has a lot to do with their relationship with Microsoft.
I tried asking for this on the Fallout 3 forums and I'll ask for it when the Skyrim forums come out, but I want and anticipate a mod or dlc that introduces a romantic interests that is less
You bought me five giant testicles and talked to me 20 times, lets have sex
and more fleshed out relationships and dynamic rewards (your lover becomes a duchess with an army of redshirts to help you or s/he becomes a magical artillery battery).
Makes the whole game feel like more of a Pen and Paper RPG with gory scenes now and then instead of a shooter.
That sounds like a good thing for an RPG, though...
As for Skyrim, if there isn't location-specific damage, it'll be in a mod. In Oblivion, Deadly Reflex let you decapitate people, chop off their hands at the wrist, etc.
The current version also adds fucking dicks and tits
It was a bit of a shock when I was switching armor and there it was, just staring at me
edit: Also I don't really think you can say that a mod equals an official feature. Aside from UI mods of course. The effects/sounds that accompany mods like deadly refelx are pretty silly/unpolished compared to what would come from bethesda
Buy it for the PC and wait for the modding community to take the game out of Beta and make it half decent?
The problem I have is that you can get a mod that addresses your problem, but then they always seem to introduce some other little flavor bit that really fucks with the game for me. I know that mods are a way of artistic expression and adding your own unique flavor but often times I wish they had just released the behind the scenes mod and left out their own additional content.
OOO is the biggest example here as it fixes much of the levelling system, but then it brings in all these new armor sets and monsters and I just don't enjoy that.
As far as whether to play Oblivion or Morrowind... I feel Morrowind was a bit richer in lore, flavor, and setting but the graphics and mechanics, even with mods, are still a bit dated. Oblivion on the other hand really fixed many of the mechanic and graphical problems and it introduced some really cool bits that improved on Morrowind. Morrowind dungeons were better imo but Oblivion had much better monsters and combat.
If you want a mod that changes the leveling system, or virtually any other aspect, there are tons that do that with no frills. You don't install OOO (A mod whose very name purports to overhaul the entire game) just for one feature.
Even so, I'm pretty sure you can go in and specifically disable the parts of OOO you don't like.
Personally I think the leveling system in both games is terrible and prefer to use mods that don't require me to heavily meta-game and manage which skills are leveling up to make sure I get the most number of stat points on level up. Basic UI enhancements are also a given.
Scosglen on
0
augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I don't think you guys are talking about the same thing when you say "leveling system."
Get a mod that locks the multipliers and the entire problem with the levelling system disappears. The levelled monsters aren't the problem with the system, the backwards multiplier system (which is also in Morrowind) is.
My favorite part of these games is the exploration of the world map. I love the freedom of picking a spot on the horizon and just going there, finding odd ruins and small villages as I go. That's one of the things I find lacking in most WRPGs like Fable or Dragon Age.
What excites me about Skyrim is how fantastically diverse and interesting the landscape and cities look. I love the Norse styling and I love the varied geography. All the mountains might be a pain to navigate, though.
Get a mod that locks the multipliers and the entire problem with the levelling system disappears. The levelled monsters aren't the problem with the system, the backwards multiplier system (which is also in Morrowind) is.
Yeah, having to grind the right tasks to get the best multipliers was always a stupid way to level. Hopefully that's out the door in skyrim.
My favorite part of these games is the exploration of the world map. I love the freedom of picking a spot on the horizon and just going there, finding odd ruins and small villages as I go. That's one of the things I find lacking in most WRPGs like Fable or Dragon Age.
What excites me about Skyrim is how fantastically diverse and interesting the landscape and cities look. I love the Norse styling and I love the varied geography. All the mountains might be a pain to navigate, though.
A pain?!? You mean you don't enjoy having to find that perfectly angled texture that allows you to jump glitch your way up so you can climb that mountain? How do we please these people?!? :P
Seriously thought I've always loved climbing mountains. I just wish that you were actually... you know... climbing them.
As far as the multipliers, yes, I'd rather they just gave you a x5 x5 x3 (or was it x3x3x1?) bonus that you got to pick automatically at every level up. Skills levelling as you use them is fine but accidentally gimping your character that level because you jumped too much is a pain. I almost want to say a deterrence against using training spells to quickly level your magic skills should be implemented. I remember shooting quickly like 10 levels at once just sitting in a room in Frostcrag one playthrough. That, to me, was a bit easy to break but I suppose that is just what comes along with having a level as you use it skill system, no?
If anyone hasn't used the OblivionXP mod, I'd recommend it. It is pretty good, actually. While I like the various flavor of level-on-use the mod worked pretty perfectly and was nice to change things up. It also helped me get away from my habit of power levelling characters (sneaking into a wall, training spells, etc).
I was talking more about the dungeons levelling with you, though. Which I did like that OOO overhauled. That was nice. As I said though, I wish they had kept the overhauls to the confines of the vanilla content.
The most hilarious part of OblivionXP is that you can walk into a bookstore and walk then walk out a few minutes later and be several levels higher. Books gave silly amounts of exp.
ShimshaiFlush with Success!Isle of EmeraldRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Using OblivionXP with a mod that added every book in the game (among other things) to the basement area of Benirus manor was a bit ridiculous. Especially when used in conjunction with the double xp bonus for being well rested.
Get a mod that locks the multipliers and the entire problem with the levelling system disappears. The levelled monsters aren't the problem with the system, the backwards multiplier system (which is also in Morrowind) is.
Never had a problem with it. I kept an endurance of 40 up until the mid 20s and still have plenty of hit points. Armor has a much bigger effect on survivability than hit points do.
Honestly the multiplier issue isn't an issue if you can just not metagame the hell out of it.
I've beaten the game a few times now, and I don't think I've ever seen a 5x multiplier. Stop stressin', its not a great system but it certainly doesn't make the game unplayable or anything.
Foolish Chaos on
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
Or you could get the mod and have your cake and eat it too.
I didn't mind the multiplier system that much because I had gotten used to that kind of hassle playing through FF8. You either had to stay level one the entire game, or optimally level up using the GF level up stat boosters.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
0
MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
I used to play Oblivion with the difficulty slider all the way up. It made the game really really interesting though it did pretty much force you to play a nightblade-esk character.
Character class: Illusion, Alchemy, Sneak, Marksman, Blade, Security, Acrobatics
For one point, armor or hp didn't really matter. You still died in maybe two or three hits. Thus, you pretty much have to make a stealth character, using poisons and sneak attacks to deliver as much burst damage as possible. It actually made you have to use the crowd control spells from illusion. Most damage dealing spells were worthless. It also made spell/potion stacking less gamebreaking.
Oh and if you want to be cheap you can do conjuration. But because the way the difficulty scaling works on Oblivion thats basically cheating.
Hmmm. I've been told that not sleep is the path to actually being able to play Oblivion on the PS3. But that feels so...weird.
Just play the game. The problems with Oblivion's levelling are enormously overstated
I left Kvatch halfway through to do some other stuff, made the mistake of leveling up a few times like a normal person, and returned to find that the level scaling had crammed the destroyed city full of hordes of unkillable demons. Bandits wearing armor worth far more than most people ever see show up to rob you constantly when you reach higher levels. Increasing in level often makes things harder. Unmodded, vanilla Oblivion is fundamentally broken, and although it's fine that it doesn't annoy you, there are a great many people who can't stand it.
I left Kvatch halfway through to do some other stuff, made the mistake of leveling up a few times like a normal person, and returned to find that the level scaling had crammed the destroyed city full of hordes of unkillable demons. Bandits wearing armor worth far more than most people ever see show up to rob you constantly when you reach higher levels. Increasing in level often makes things harder. Unmodded, vanilla Oblivion is fundamentally broken, and although it's fine that it doesn't annoy you, there are a great many people who can't stand it.
Kvatch is harder at higher levels, but it's never impossible and is probably the hardest thing the game has to offer. There's a difficulty slider that has no penalty for use if you find it that troublesome. I'm not sure how the concept of a game becoming more difficult as it proceeds became such a controversial issue, since this is the fundamental basis of every single game in the beginning of time. Oblivion is flawed in many ways. What it is not, is broken. It's absolutely playable from start to finish without any mods whatsoever and have a positively delightful time. The bandits issue is annoying from a lore perspective, but since bandits never become anything more than trivial to defeat it has little effect on the gameplay. Most of the content of the game has little combat challenge at all (the thieves guild, the dark brotherhood, the mages guild).
I'm by no means a Bethesda apologist, I have a litany of problems with each iteration of the series and could make a compelling case that it's all been downhill since Daggerfall. This doesn't change the fact that many of the problems that people allegedly have with Oblivion are entirely fictional.
Hmmm. I've been told that not sleep is the path to actually being able to play Oblivion on the PS3. But that feels so...weird.
Just play the game. The problems with Oblivion's levelling are enormously overstated
I left Kvatch halfway through to do some other stuff, made the mistake of leveling up a few times like a normal person, and returned to find that the level scaling had crammed the destroyed city full of hordes of unkillable demons. Bandits wearing armor worth far more than most people ever see show up to rob you constantly when you reach higher levels. Increasing in level often makes things harder. Unmodded, vanilla Oblivion is fundamentally broken, and although it's fine that it doesn't annoy you, there are a great many people who can't stand it.
I don't think that fits the description of fundamentally broken. A game shouldn't get easier as you level up. Maybe parts of it, sure, but in general the fundamentals there are sound. I also wouldn't call it broken. Sure it could be better... but does it make the game unplayable? No.
Also, Lewie, convince me to play Daggerfall. Graphics don't really bother me, so I am curious.
I'm playing Oblivion at the moment, and my character is at level 35. He can kill most enemies in one spell, and do the odd outstandingly gangsta thing like the aforementioned mind controlling a guard into drowning himself. Having said that, I can also go into an Oblivion gate and have a challenging (but not unwinnable) fight against a group of Dremora. I'm more powerful than I was at level 1, by far, but I can still find content in the game that presents a challenge without touching the difficulty slider. That seems like pretty good balance to me. Your mileage may vary. Once you know how to make poisons and potions, nothing in the game poses any serious threat on the default difficulty setting.
Posts
And have a chance for arrows to hit people in the throat killing them straight away. Always fun to do it on essential characters, in my game the dancer in Sheogorath's throne room is knelt on the ground with a constant stream of blood pouring from her throat.
I've installed Oblivion with mods so many times and always come away forgetting this one. Dammit.
Oh sorry I didn't mean to say it was bad per se; I just don't like it as a shooter. Objectively (as far as possible) I think both new Fallout games are pretty good, despite some flaws like zooming faces or bugs etc. and even those can ironed out by mods, mostly.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
Packages of mods as free DLC packs would be delicious.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
5$? Only if they're really good. 10$? Fuck that noise.
The free package DLC stuff would be the best, but I see a small chance of that happening.
The Super Meat Boy devs managed some kind of workaround via a loophole, didn't they?
IIRC OOO just unfucked the scaling, made the rooms feel lived in, and un-cookie cuttered the dungeons. I know there were a million little bits all worked into OOO, but I just remember feeling like it made the game playable, if not making a total rescue. ::Morrowind related grognard statement here::
e~ That clip is great.
Buy it for the PC and wait for the modding community to take the game out of Beta and make it half decent?
Not everyone has a rocking PC, or some just prefer certain games on consoles and couches and big televisions.
Oblivion definitely needed mods to make it playable for a lot of people, myself included, but Bethesda seems like a company that listens to their fans. After all, they fixed a lot of issues that I had with Oblivion in Fallout 3 and Skyrim looks to continue that trend. The only mods I ever really used with Fallout 3 were companion and extra weapon mods (although, not surprisingly, most of the companion mods released were beautiful women - or cat people - eager to get naked for you). If Skyrim has companions and Bethesda mentions they're including a lot more loot in the game then they've ever had before, I see nothing wrong with playing it on console. The definite version will still be on PC, of course, but the console versions may not feel like an unfinished package this time around.
I thought you could release your first DLC for free, but everything after has to be paid. Also, this rule only applies until it doesn't. Some games get away with more than one free DLC release, and I'm sure it has a lot to do with their relationship with Microsoft.
The current version also adds fucking dicks and tits
It was a bit of a shock when I was switching armor and there it was, just staring at me
edit: Also I don't really think you can say that a mod equals an official feature. Aside from UI mods of course. The effects/sounds that accompany mods like deadly refelx are pretty silly/unpolished compared to what would come from bethesda
The problem I have is that you can get a mod that addresses your problem, but then they always seem to introduce some other little flavor bit that really fucks with the game for me. I know that mods are a way of artistic expression and adding your own unique flavor but often times I wish they had just released the behind the scenes mod and left out their own additional content.
OOO is the biggest example here as it fixes much of the levelling system, but then it brings in all these new armor sets and monsters and I just don't enjoy that.
As far as whether to play Oblivion or Morrowind... I feel Morrowind was a bit richer in lore, flavor, and setting but the graphics and mechanics, even with mods, are still a bit dated. Oblivion on the other hand really fixed many of the mechanic and graphical problems and it introduced some really cool bits that improved on Morrowind. Morrowind dungeons were better imo but Oblivion had much better monsters and combat.
So it's really up to what interests you.
Even so, I'm pretty sure you can go in and specifically disable the parts of OOO you don't like.
Personally I think the leveling system in both games is terrible and prefer to use mods that don't require me to heavily meta-game and manage which skills are leveling up to make sure I get the most number of stat points on level up. Basic UI enhancements are also a given.
What excites me about Skyrim is how fantastically diverse and interesting the landscape and cities look. I love the Norse styling and I love the varied geography. All the mountains might be a pain to navigate, though.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Yeah, having to grind the right tasks to get the best multipliers was always a stupid way to level. Hopefully that's out the door in skyrim.
A pain?!? You mean you don't enjoy having to find that perfectly angled texture that allows you to jump glitch your way up so you can climb that mountain? How do we please these people?!? :P
Seriously thought I've always loved climbing mountains. I just wish that you were actually... you know... climbing them.
As far as the multipliers, yes, I'd rather they just gave you a x5 x5 x3 (or was it x3x3x1?) bonus that you got to pick automatically at every level up. Skills levelling as you use them is fine but accidentally gimping your character that level because you jumped too much is a pain. I almost want to say a deterrence against using training spells to quickly level your magic skills should be implemented. I remember shooting quickly like 10 levels at once just sitting in a room in Frostcrag one playthrough. That, to me, was a bit easy to break but I suppose that is just what comes along with having a level as you use it skill system, no?
If anyone hasn't used the OblivionXP mod, I'd recommend it. It is pretty good, actually. While I like the various flavor of level-on-use the mod worked pretty perfectly and was nice to change things up. It also helped me get away from my habit of power levelling characters (sneaking into a wall, training spells, etc).
I was talking more about the dungeons levelling with you, though. Which I did like that OOO overhauled. That was nice. As I said though, I wish they had kept the overhauls to the confines of the vanilla content.
... and the Endurance issue.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I've beaten the game a few times now, and I don't think I've ever seen a 5x multiplier. Stop stressin', its not a great system but it certainly doesn't make the game unplayable or anything.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
That's pretty much the definition of "not a bug".
Just play the game. The problems with Oblivion's levelling are enormously overstated
Character class: Illusion, Alchemy, Sneak, Marksman, Blade, Security, Acrobatics
For one point, armor or hp didn't really matter. You still died in maybe two or three hits. Thus, you pretty much have to make a stealth character, using poisons and sneak attacks to deliver as much burst damage as possible. It actually made you have to use the crowd control spells from illusion. Most damage dealing spells were worthless. It also made spell/potion stacking less gamebreaking.
Oh and if you want to be cheap you can do conjuration. But because the way the difficulty scaling works on Oblivion thats basically cheating.
I left Kvatch halfway through to do some other stuff, made the mistake of leveling up a few times like a normal person, and returned to find that the level scaling had crammed the destroyed city full of hordes of unkillable demons. Bandits wearing armor worth far more than most people ever see show up to rob you constantly when you reach higher levels. Increasing in level often makes things harder. Unmodded, vanilla Oblivion is fundamentally broken, and although it's fine that it doesn't annoy you, there are a great many people who can't stand it.
Kvatch is harder at higher levels, but it's never impossible and is probably the hardest thing the game has to offer. There's a difficulty slider that has no penalty for use if you find it that troublesome. I'm not sure how the concept of a game becoming more difficult as it proceeds became such a controversial issue, since this is the fundamental basis of every single game in the beginning of time. Oblivion is flawed in many ways. What it is not, is broken. It's absolutely playable from start to finish without any mods whatsoever and have a positively delightful time. The bandits issue is annoying from a lore perspective, but since bandits never become anything more than trivial to defeat it has little effect on the gameplay. Most of the content of the game has little combat challenge at all (the thieves guild, the dark brotherhood, the mages guild).
I'm by no means a Bethesda apologist, I have a litany of problems with each iteration of the series and could make a compelling case that it's all been downhill since Daggerfall. This doesn't change the fact that many of the problems that people allegedly have with Oblivion are entirely fictional.
I don't think that fits the description of fundamentally broken. A game shouldn't get easier as you level up. Maybe parts of it, sure, but in general the fundamentals there are sound. I also wouldn't call it broken. Sure it could be better... but does it make the game unplayable? No.
Also, Lewie, convince me to play Daggerfall. Graphics don't really bother me, so I am curious.