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*plz lock k thnx*1991 nissan stanza. Is it worth doing an engine swap? maybe?

ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the swordhttp://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
edited February 2011 in Help / Advice Forum
Its a 1991 gold nissan stanza. It has 140,000miles showing on the odometer. I have reason to suspect its more like 160,000 to 200,000 with the faulty odometer in it. I really, really like this car. I pay very low insurance and I've heard these cars can last quite a while if maintained properly.

I found a brand new engine for 865$ shipped. Is it worth wasting $$ on a car like this or am I pissing money away on this car?

Honestly, I really.. really like this vehicle besides the lack of hot air (the engine doesn't warm up very quickly at all- especially when it's cold). It gets decent fuel economy and has a decent low end torque.\

*edit*

Ya, I'm still seriously considering it if I can get help doing it for the right price. If I going to drop 865$ in the engine and spend another 1,000$ in swapping it out then it's not worth it. If I can get someone to "help" me do it (500$ + additional parts to swap out) Then maybe it might be doable.

Viscountalpha on

Posts

  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Is it rusty?
    Does the fuel system leak?
    What kinds of damage has it already sustained? Been in any accidents? Frame is straight?
    The suspension is OK? You won't need to redo it? How about redoing all the bushings?
    What are common faults with it?
    Is the exhaust OK? Are you in an area where emissions are heavily enforced?
    Are the wheels and tires OK, or will you need to replace those?
    What kind of engine are you swapping into it? How do you know it's a new engine, and not rebuilt? Are you sure it's in perfect condition? What else will you need to supply, other than new hoses, wiring, belts, sparkplugs, possibly other sensors and the distributor?
    Have you done an engine swap before? Do you have the time and space to do it? I assume you have another car to use while you're doing this, to get you around..?
    Are you fine with the idea that you're going to be spending tons of your time and money into something that you won't ever get back, meaning you won't sell it for nearly as much as you've put into it?

    L Ron Howard on
  • CooterTKECooterTKE Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If it is only the engine you are worried about that is a great price to have a car you can trust.

    CooterTKE on
  • wmelonwmelon Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Do you have the skills necessary to swap the engine yourself? If not fact in at least another $1000 for labor, then decide if it's worth it.

    wmelon on
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Is it rusty?
    Does the fuel system leak?
    What kinds of damage has it already sustained? Been in any accidents? Frame is straight?
    The suspension is OK? You won't need to redo it? How about redoing all the bushings?
    What are common faults with it?
    Is the exhaust OK? Are you in an area where emissions are heavily enforced?
    Are the wheels and tires OK, or will you need to replace those?
    What kind of engine are you swapping into it? How do you know it's a new engine, and not rebuilt? Are you sure it's in perfect condition? What else will you need to supply, other than new hoses, wiring, belts, sparkplugs, possibly other sensors and the distributor?
    Have you done an engine swap before? Do you have the time and space to do it? I assume you have another car to use while you're doing this, to get you around..?
    Are you fine with the idea that you're going to be spending tons of your time and money into something that you won't ever get back, meaning you won't sell it for nearly as much as you've put into it?

    No. Rust is minimal, if any. The damage is on the front fender and its very minor- just about cosmetic. As far as I'm aware, the frame is straight and its never been screwed up. I'm not sure about the suspension but i don't imagine it will cost too much. It likes to creak when two people are in the vehicle.

    The only major things wrong is the battery keeps getting drained and I need to get that sorted out. Who ever swapped out the alternator did a shitty job of it.

    Tires are excellent and wheels good too. The current engine is alright except its leaking oil somewhat. Part of the reason I'd like to get a new engine.

    I don't have another vehicle to use but I can make it work somehow while it's getting pulled. I have no idea how long it will take to yank an engine and swap it out. I've never done it but I feel confident i'm ready to try.

    The main thing about the money? yes. I'm perfectly aware that this is a long term investment and that I won't see a dime back most likely.

    The thing is, this engine is like 865$ shipped which is fantastic, and I figure I could resell the working but heavily used engine if it's not severely damaged that is. It shouldn't be super expensive i figure.

    Viscountalpha on
  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Tires are excellent and wheels good too. The current engine is alright except its leaking oil somewhat. Part of the reason I'd like to get a new engine.

    Man if the only major problem with your current engine is oil leaks, you can probably fix that with new gaskets or possibly seals, at a fraction of the cost of an engine swap. Nissan engines have been known to regularly top 300,000 miles with routine maintenance.

    Ruckus on
  • DorkmanDorkman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I have driven a 1991 Stanza up to 260,000 kms before a deer decided I have had enough.

    Then I picked up a 1997 Maxima and drove that until the odometer read 400,000 and sold it for $500 and a side of beef.

    Moral of the story? Nissan's are tanks. If it is only oil leaking, then I would suggest looking at install new gaskets/seals to see if that would fix the problem.

    Would you be swapping it yourself? Or would you need to pay for labor to do that too?

    Dorkman on
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  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Institutionalized Safe in jail.Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    is the new engine a KA24E or a KA24DE? The E is SOHC with 3 valves per cylinder, and I think it's worth more like $400-$500 (without transmission) The DE is DOHC with 4 valves per cylinder, a knock sensor, piston oil squirters among other things and is worth more like the $900 asking price.
    I'm assuming you don't need a new transmission to go with the engine, but you might want to either fire an e-mail off to the tech guys at superstreet magazine or browse some nissan owner's club forums to find out exactly what modifications would be required to work your current transmission on the new one. Even if it's the same engine but on a new/older model there might be a few things to change.

    I know the KA24 series are a pretty popular swap and are in ready supply which should drive the price down quite a bit. Pretty sure the demand is significantly lower than the SR series which would also help explain the low price of the new engine.

    The hoon in me would tell you to drop an RB series engine in it and then subsequently torque-oversteer yourself into a ditch, but that would be sort of counter productive.

    acidlacedpenguin on
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  • LaPuzzaLaPuzza Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I would look locally, too. I know when I had an engine blow I found a place that would give me a major warranty on the engine. It was expensive, and I ended up getting a new car instead, but still an option to consider.
    The hoon in me would tell you to drop an RB series engine in it and then subsequently torque-oversteer yourself into a ditch, but that would be sort of counter productive.

    Allow me to meet the requirement that every thread on the Internet containing the phrase "engine swap" to include a response that says "drop in a chevy small block."

    LaPuzza on
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    is the new engine a KA24E or a KA24DE? The E is SOHC with 3 valves per cylinder, and I think it's worth more like $400-$500 (without transmission) The DE is DOHC with 4 valves per cylinder, a knock sensor, piston oil squirters among other things and is worth more like the $900 asking price.
    I'm assuming you don't need a new transmission to go with the engine, but you might want to either fire an e-mail off to the tech guys at superstreet magazine or browse some nissan owner's club forums to find out exactly what modifications would be required to work your current transmission on the new one. Even if it's the same engine but on a new/older model there might be a few things to change.

    I know the KA24 series are a pretty popular swap and are in ready supply which should drive the price down quite a bit. Pretty sure the demand is significantly lower than the SR series which would also help explain the low price of the new engine.

    The hoon in me would tell you to drop an RB series engine in it and then subsequently torque-oversteer yourself into a ditch, but that would be sort of counter productive.

    Its an KA24E. I found a replacement for 865 $shipped without a core (Core prices vary from 150-250$). Seriously, i've looked everywhere for an inexpensive rebuilt KA24E or DE and they are all 1000-1500$ + core charge. This 865$ is without the core price. This appears to be a crate KA24E so ZERO miles on it. I can barely find any crated KA24E's around (but thats google, i'm certain there are other avenues)

    I feel like it's better to get a good engine swapped in and get some resale out of this older engine and have someone rebuild it then to wait for it to fail.

    And yes. These are reliable cars. That's what I think I love about the vehicle the most.

    Viscountalpha on
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'd personally just see if I can get the seals fixed rather than swap in a new engine. Doing that requires a lot of labor+clutch parts (IIRC). You're looking probably $2000 for a car that will probably be worth less than that after the swap.

    schuss on
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    schuss wrote: »
    I'd personally just see if I can get the seals fixed rather than swap in a new engine. Doing that requires a lot of labor+clutch parts (IIRC). You're looking probably $2000 for a car that will probably be worth less than that after the swap.

    my real problem with the engine is I don't actually know how many miles on it. The odometer only works about 1/2 the time so my 140,000 could be 200,000 easily and I couldn't know otherwise.

    The labor? I want to do that myself. I have a friend or two that might be able to help me.

    Viscountalpha on
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So have you ever done anything major like rebuilding an engine, or replacing the seals or swapping an engine before?


    This is going to cost you more than I think you're aware, because even if it's the same engine, you're going to find lots of other things that you'll need to replace. I don't know anyone, myself included, who has just replaced an engine in something and not seen anything else that has needed to be repaired or replaced. Sure, you can put off some things, but you'll regret it later when it fails and you're stuck on the side of the road.

    L Ron Howard on
  • RuckusRuckus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    schuss wrote: »
    I'd personally just see if I can get the seals fixed rather than swap in a new engine. Doing that requires a lot of labor+clutch parts (IIRC). You're looking probably $2000 for a car that will probably be worth less than that after the swap.

    my real problem with the engine is I don't actually know how many miles on it. The odometer only works about 1/2 the time so my 140,000 could be 200,000 easily and I couldn't know otherwise.

    The labor? I want to do that myself. I have a friend or two that might be able to help me.

    Then your concern should be that the drivetrain, braking system, steering, and electrical system are also at an unknown level of wear, and your choice should be simple.

    Ruckus on
  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Institutionalized Safe in jail.Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I agree that the fact that the new engine is brand-new new makes that $860 price tag seem more reasonable especially where you've mentioned that the availability of rebuilt DE's has them at nearly twice the cost of this one.

    I think that as long as you can accept the fact that you will never be able to recoup the cost that you'll be sinking into the stanza then you should do the swap. You've already said that you love the car so clearly keeping it around and in good working order is a good investment for your happiness.
    Like, if you were a dog lover and your dog needed a $1000+ surgery, even though it's money you'll never see back, you'd do it in a heartbeat. I feel the same way about my car. . . well not the one I'm currently driving because it shits out transmissions faster than I shit out taco bell, but I still miss my previous car and I'm kicking myself for not doing what I could to keep it around.

    edit:

    yeah you'd probably want to consider at least the cost of replacing the bushings, getting the brakes looked at, etc.

    acidlacedpenguin on
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  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    A 20 year old Nissan Bluebird?

    Get the leaks fixed as cheaply as possible, and start saving up for a replacement car.

    Sorry duder, I know we tend to get attached to our cars, but you are basically driving a 20 year old Hyundai Elantra. And it is WAY closer to the end of its life than the start.

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    is the new engine a KA24E or a KA24DE? The E is SOHC with 3 valves per cylinder, and I think it's worth more like $400-$500 (without transmission) The DE is DOHC with 4 valves per cylinder, a knock sensor, piston oil squirters among other things and is worth more like the $900 asking price.
    I'm assuming you don't need a new transmission to go with the engine, but you might want to either fire an e-mail off to the tech guys at superstreet magazine or browse some nissan owner's club forums to find out exactly what modifications would be required to work your current transmission on the new one. Even if it's the same engine but on a new/older model there might be a few things to change.

    I know the KA24 series are a pretty popular swap and are in ready supply which should drive the price down quite a bit. Pretty sure the demand is significantly lower than the SR series which would also help explain the low price of the new engine.

    The hoon in me would tell you to drop an RB series engine in it and then subsequently torque-oversteer yourself into a ditch, but that would be sort of counter productive.

    You would think this. But I swear I can't find a reasonably priced engine. So far I've only seen this crated KA24E engine. I wish it was a DE but I can tell from the valve cover it's just a plain KA24E.

    I did have the suspension checked out and that's going to cost me. 789$ But I do have 500$ credit with Les schwab so that will take quite a bit of the sting out of that being able to make payments on it.

    I'm still honestly considering this engine swap, I just need to secure help in doing it. Seems that friend who was going to help me isn't responding so If I can't find reasonably priced assistance then it's a no-go.

    Oh and FYI. Hundai's are garbage. Nissan's (specifically the stanza/altima line) are NOT garbage.

    Viscountalpha on
  • proXimityproXimity Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Modern Hyundais are actually rather good

    proXimity on
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  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    are cars really that expensive in america?

    i'm just trying to wrap my head around these figures, and we're talking about a 20 year old japanese box on wheels here, right?

    why not sell it and buy a newer model instead, maybe add the money you'd be willing to invest in an engine swap to the total or something.

    what did you pay for it when you first bought it?

    bwanie on
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  • ASimPersonASimPerson Cold... and hard.Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ruckus wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    I'd personally just see if I can get the seals fixed rather than swap in a new engine. Doing that requires a lot of labor+clutch parts (IIRC). You're looking probably $2000 for a car that will probably be worth less than that after the swap.

    my real problem with the engine is I don't actually know how many miles on it. The odometer only works about 1/2 the time so my 140,000 could be 200,000 easily and I couldn't know otherwise.

    The labor? I want to do that myself. I have a friend or two that might be able to help me.

    Then your concern should be that the drivetrain, braking system, steering, and electrical system are also at an unknown level of wear, and your choice should be simple.

    Yeah, you're going to find a lot of things that will be a "good idea" to replace once you get in there. And also, do you and your buddies even have the equipment to remove an engine? You need an engine hoist, among other things. You can probably rent them, but still, this stuff adds up quickly.

    I agree with most of the folks who are saying get the seals replaced and start looking for a newer car.

    ASimPerson on
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If you have to pay someone to tell you whether the suspension is good, you shouldn't be replacing the engine.

    L Ron Howard on
  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Institutionalized Safe in jail.Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    ... sometimes you have to pay someone to tell you whether the suspension is good not because you don't know yourself but because you need an officially licensed person to tell the DOT that your car is okay to be on the road.

    I'm wondering if you could spare the downtime to pull your own engine out and rebuild it yourself/with the hypothetical friend? I mean, if you can spare the downtime then the worst that could happen is getting it all back together and finding you haven't solved the problem, and the best that could happen is you fix it for significantly less money than all other options.

    acidlacedpenguin on
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  • wmelonwmelon Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Another question to think about. How long can you afford to have the car down? An engine swap can take several days even if you know what you're doing already.

    Disconnecting and keeping everything straight that stays in the car, then removing the existing engine can take quite a while. Not to mention the amount of time it takes to get everything hooked back up after you get the new engine in there.

    wmelon on
  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Institutionalized Safe in jail.Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    wmelon makes an excellent point. . . Document EVERYTHING. Any time you remove tab A from slot B clean it, take a photo of the connection, label them with masking tape if possible. If you're thorough then you should be able to simply look at the photos in reverse order when it comes time for re-assembly.

    ... Sorry if any of that suggestion is painfully obvious and/or pedantic.

    acidlacedpenguin on
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  • wmelonwmelon Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    wmelon makes an excellent point. . . Document EVERYTHING. Any time you remove tab A from slot B clean it, take a photo of the connection, label them with masking tape if possible. If you're thorough then you should be able to simply look at the photos in reverse order when it comes time for re-assembly.

    ... Sorry if any of that suggestion is painfully obvious and/or pedantic.

    This is great advice. I didn't do this on my first engine swap, but the second went MUCH quicker after I did it.

    wmelon on
  • SpudgeSpudge Witty comments go next to this blue dot thingyRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If you want to swap, then swap. If you have the attachment to the car then by all means have a go at it! At the very least you'll get the experience

    Just remember that owning a 20 year old car comes with 20 years of issues: Brake/fuel lines, suspension, bushings, steering, CV joints, hubs, deteriorating electricals, and the like

    (I say go for it because I now own 2 1987 Saabs that are being joined into one. Funny how a love for a car works that way)

    Spudge on
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  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    ... sometimes you have to pay someone to tell you whether the suspension is good not because you don't know yourself but because you need an officially licensed person to tell the DOT that your car is okay to be on the road.

    I'm wondering if you could spare the downtime to pull your own engine out and rebuild it yourself/with the hypothetical friend? I mean, if you can spare the downtime then the worst that could happen is getting it all back together and finding you haven't solved the problem, and the best that could happen is you fix it for significantly less money than all other options.


    I appreciate this acid, but I think the down time would be too much. I did get the suspension checked out and it looks like it does need significant work. *sigh*

    This car better be damned nice after all the work I'm putting into it.

    Viscountalpha on
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    ... sometimes you have to pay someone to tell you whether the suspension is good not because you don't know yourself but because you need an officially licensed person to tell the DOT that your car is okay to be on the road.

    I'm wondering if you could spare the downtime to pull your own engine out and rebuild it yourself/with the hypothetical friend? I mean, if you can spare the downtime then the worst that could happen is getting it all back together and finding you haven't solved the problem, and the best that could happen is you fix it for significantly less money than all other options.


    I appreciate this acid, but I think the down time would be too much. I did get the suspension checked out and it looks like it does need significant work. *sigh*

    This car better be damned nice after all the work I'm putting into it.

    Unfortunately, it won't be. As Spudge said, it'll still be a 20 year old car.

    The Bluebird (especially the cheapest model that was sold as a Stanza in America) isn't exactly a particularly nice piece of kit. If you follow the path you seem to have chosen, you will end up spending at least $2000, probably closer to $2500-$3000. On a $1500 car. Which will still be a $1500 car once you're done fixing it.

    Quote: "Oh and FYI. Hundai's are garbage. Nissan's (specifically the stanza/altima line) are NOT garbage."

    Whoops, you don't know shit about cars. If I was offered the no-cost (free) choice between a brand new 1991 Stanza (just built yesterday, from all brand new parts, not even NewOldStock) with full factory warranty, and a brand new 2011 i30 for the same price, guess which car I would take?

    Full disclosure, I currently own a Nissan.

    EDIT: Full double super disclosure: I'm a qualified mechanic, too.

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
  • Maxim TomatoMaxim Tomato Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Quote: "Oh and FYI. Hundai's are garbage. Nissan's (specifically the stanza/altima line) are NOT garbage."

    Whoops, you don't know shit about cars. If I was offered the no-cost (free) choice between a brand new 1991 Stanza (just built yesterday, from all brand new parts, not even NewOldStock) with full factory warranty, and a brand new 2011 i30 for the same price, guess which car I would take?

    I think this is a silly comparison. Nobody is arguing that old cars are better than new cars, but rather that the Nissan brand is superior to the Hyundai brand, which is debatable. A more accurate comparison might be that between a brand new stanza and a brand new excel. I don't think anyone in their right mind would choose the excel.

    I would recommend the OP sink that money into a car that is maybe only 10 years old, instead of keeping a rather forgettable 20-year-old car, which may have issues other than the engine, on the road. Especially if it's a daily driver.

    Maxim Tomato on
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Thanks. I'll get the transmission checked out and take it from there. It sounds like I'm just wasting $$ on a car that will eventually let me down. So thank you everyone.

    Please lock this thread now before the hundai fanatics come after me.
    Yes, I'm joking
    or am I?
    Ya, i am.

    Viscountalpha on
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