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Overclocking conundrum

NightholdNighthold Registered User regular
edited February 2007 in Help / Advice Forum
So I just built a new computer and, overall, I am loving it.

Gigabyte 965P-DQ6 Mobo
Intel Dual Core e6400
1 gig corsair XMS DDR2 800
ATI x1950 Pro 512

I got vista running like butter, and all is well with the world. However, I started looking into OC'ing this processor (as it is clearly built for) and I discovered something a little strange about it. It works just fine, but WITHOUT ANY OC'ing, it runs goddamned HOT. The stock heat sink is installed just fine, but I am getting consistently hot readings on speedfan and core temp.

At the moment, at almost no load, Speedfan is reading:

Temp 1: 32 C
Temp 2: 62 C (with a nice little flame icon next to it... very comforting).

Core temp beta is even more alarming.
Tjunction is 85 C
Core 0: 77 C
Core 1: 75 C

Again, this is with no load, no OC'ing, a working stock cooler, in a very airy case in a very cold room, in a mobo supposidly built to keep cpu's cool.

I have a zalman fan and some artic silver on the way in the mail, the question is: is there something wrong with my hardware? Should I be RMA'ing my processor? Could this be a mobo problem?

A Player Of The Unplayables.
Nighthold on

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    RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    How did you mount the stock cooler ?

    Are you still using the thermal grease that came with it, already applied on it ?

    The stock cooler (properly mounted) should give much better temps.. but Oc'ing will quickly run that right out.

    I would bet that the cooling block needs to be taken off, wiped down 7 cleaned, and re-greased & mounted properly... but I would just wait until the AS gets there, and mount the new cooler off the bat.

    Do you have any other thermal grease you can use? because I would recommend keeping that cpu off at those temps until you can properly mount a cooling fan.

    RoundBoy on
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    NightholdNighthold Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I did not use any other thermal grease than came already applied on the cooler, maybe I was an idiot for doing that, but I figured I would test out how it ran under default conditions before I started benchmarking it with the other cooler.

    The stock cooler was simply mounted as per intel's retail instructions. Very easy mount too.

    Nighthold on
    A Player Of The Unplayables.
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    FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Only kind of related, but what did you get only a gig of ram?

    Fellhand on
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    NightholdNighthold Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Funny you should ask.

    I got 2, but upon initial smoke test the bios would not post. Did a reboot and straight into boot blocker. Figured out that one of the sticks of RAM was bad and after taking it out it posted just fine.

    It's currently in the mail back to newegg.

    Nighthold on
    A Player Of The Unplayables.
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    RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Yeah .. that is your problem .. if i remember, the stock cooler has 3 lines of thermal padding on the base, and i never thought it was any good, let alone put on properly ..

    are the cooling pins even getting warm on your system?

    I would try spreading the substance around the heatsink with your finger wrapped in a plastic bag etc (NOT A BARE FINGER) to thin it out and get a better bond ..

    but you are just making more of a mess of it as you will be scraping it off anyway to mount a new cooler. Which one did you buy, as the zalman are hit and miss according to reviews i read when looking for my cooler.

    RoundBoy on
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    NightholdNighthold Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Ok, so I just took off the stock cooler (comp is going to be dead until I get the replacement).

    Sorry if this is a dumb statement, but what do you mean by cooling pins? Frankly, the air it was blowing wasnt even warm, but I don't know if that answers you question.

    I realized I actually ordered a piece of shit for a cooler, so I cancelled that order. I am considering just hitting up compUSA and picking one up today. Any suggestions?

    Nighthold on
    A Player Of The Unplayables.
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    RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    My stock cpu cooler from intel for the E4300 looks like a bunch of concentric rings made of vertical, but slightly angled, aluminum pins.

    i was asking if these are getting warm.. meaning that heat is transfering from the heatspreader to the copper block to the cooling pins.

    I bought the Scythe Ninja

    I have no vid card yet, so I can't properly config & test my system... but so far this thing mounts easily, and reviews say it cools wonderfully.

    The included 120mm fan is silent, but my only complaint is that it is only 3 pins (does not report RPM data to the mobo for dynamic control) .. i will probably get a new fan for it .. but I hear this cooler does well fanless, and I have exhaust fans already blowing over it.

    Time will tell if its the right choice, but so far, its a winner. EVERYONE seems to be going with the Tuniq 120 .. but at twice the price, and a very real possibility of it not fitting your mobo or case .. is a thing to wonder about.

    Also, the scythe website for gigabyte mobos does not show an exact ok for it, only so far the GA-965P-DS4 .. so , it *might* not work for you. but they seem to take into account fitament issues with mobos pretty well..

    RoundBoy on
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    NightholdNighthold Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Hrm. I am going to try and get some Arctic Silver from CompUSA and give it another go. I took off the stock cooler and removed all the thermal paste so maybe a reapplication of the good stuff and paying special attention to the mount will pay off.

    Nighthold on
    A Player Of The Unplayables.
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    NightholdNighthold Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Update:

    After a cleaning, application of arctic silver, and a remount, I am now running at a clean and cool:

    Speedfan:
    Temp 1: 25 C
    Temp 2: 17 C


    Coretemp

    Core 0: 36 c
    Core 1: 36 c

    This is with STOCK cooling. The moral of this is that the thermal grease that comes standard on intel coolers SUCKS. I wonder what a good cooler will do with this now...

    Nighthold on
    A Player Of The Unplayables.
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    LodbrokLodbrok Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I just have to mention this... those differences in temperature are very unlikely to be due to the grease. From everything I've read, the brand of the grease is not that important, an expensive grease makes maybe a couple of percent difference. The difference between a good and a cheap grease is more in that the expensive one is likely to last a lot longer without drying out, which I guess is important to. However, such huge differences as you got are more likely due to how you applied the grease and how well you managed to squeze it out. Here is an article about grease:

    http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

    Lodbrok on
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    JWFokkerJWFokker Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I think you just mounted it improperly (in the pooper?) and remounting it made all the difference. Stock thermal interface material shouldn't make more than a 2-3C difference.

    JWFokker on
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    Xenocide GeekXenocide Geek Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Yeah, it's easy to improperly mount something, so that was probably the case.

    Mind if I ask why you want to overclock your CPU, though?

    My philosophy is: if it's working, why mess with it?

    I understand if you're a hobbyist, though.

    Xenocide Geek on
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    RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    because a 1.8ghz cpu that can now run at 3.0ghz + with little effort is a big win in the price vs performance category

    nothing wrong with NOT OC'ing .. but damn its nice when you do.

    RoundBoy on
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    NightholdNighthold Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Its possible that it was an improper mount... in fact it sounds likely, but man its a real difference now. I gotta say though, I am very happy now. I have it OC'ed to 3.2ghz running at 52c on stock cooling. Not bad.

    Nighthold on
    A Player Of The Unplayables.
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    DaySleeperDaySleeper regular
    edited February 2007
    Nighthold wrote:
    Its possible that it was an improper mount... in fact it sounds likely, but man its a real difference now. I gotta say though, I am very happy now. I have it OC'ed to 3.2ghz running at 52c on stock cooling. Not bad.

    If I might hijack a little, what do you use for your stability testing?

    DaySleeper on
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    NightholdNighthold Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Sorry to deftly sidestep your highjack, but now I am having a new problem which some of you gents may be able to help with.

    So now that the CPU has cooled down I have spent the rest of the day messing around in the bios testing it out and such. This mobo has a great bios btw, I really enjoy working in it, but I am having a big problem. I just cant get the bus speed over 266.

    I set the multiplier to 8, and the CPU clock speed to 400, which should give me a 3.2, but upon booting (and it does boot just fine, and it is actually faster than what it was, but CPU-Z is rating my core speed at 2133.3 MHz.

    My voltage is set to 1.36875

    I have disabled all of the automatic cpu back-throttles in the advanced bios menu, but nothing seems to budge this.

    Any ideas what the problem is?

    As for stability, I have been using Prime95 and SuperPi

    Nighthold on
    A Player Of The Unplayables.
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    RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    don;t just set the speed from 266 to 400 right away.. increment.
    that speed and multiplier suggest you are still at a 266 FSB ...

    crank it up slowly .. you might find 400 won't work.. but 401 does ...

    RoundBoy on
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    NightholdNighthold Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Thanks for the advice. Looking pretty now. I'm at a sweet spot with my temps and speed, so I will leave it be for a while. Thanks!

    Nighthold on
    A Player Of The Unplayables.
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    SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Just as an addendum, make sure you update CPUZ as often as possible.

    I remember that they release a new version around 2 months ago with updated Core 2 Duo junk, so make sure you've got that.

    Sushisource on
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    JWFokkerJWFokker Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    There are a few things you should look into. First, the revision of the motherboard. Before rev. 2.0, that particular motherboard had trouble getting to 3.2-3.3Ghz. Also, you'll likely have to bump up the Vcore to ~1.35-1.40 and possibly increase the memory latency timings to get past 3.2Ghz. Also, what stepping is your CPU? F6 CPUs are known to be better overclockers than F5's.

    JWFokker on
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    RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    many motherboards . even individual motherboards where one works, but an identical one won't .. have specific issues with overclocking.

    The described 'window' effect where you can oc 266-350, but get NOTHING from 351-400

    401 on works fine.

    Ditto for upper limits, etc. It really depends on each component..

    But anywho .. is this topic solved ?

    RoundBoy on
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    robaalrobaal Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I'm guessing that there is some protection in the BIOS that will prevent you from changing the FSB from default - perhaps you need to disable speedstep?. To achieve higher FSB frequencies you'll most likely have to increase the chipset voltage.


    DaySleeper: there's a thing called Intel Thermal Analysis Tool that heats up C2D CPUs very well - both cores, and most likely much more than you'll ever achieve with regular programs.
    With Prime95 you'll want to use two instances with C2Ds, to load both cores.

    robaal on
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