This is one of two types of losses for me. In this example, I literally commit suicide. I'm the only one who lost this game for myself and it's horribly disappointing. I could really use the critique, as I seem to have no idea when the right time to attack really is.
My first attempt at a 3-gate obs. I'm pretty happy with the build, it fits my style. I still have to work on my unit production, macro, etc. But hopefully that will come by sticking to one opening.
Just reposting, since it got BOTP'd right before GSL. Thanks guys.
-your nexus spent a lot of time idle
-getting supply blocked at 18 is a big deal. really focus on that. supply blocking later on isnt a big problem and you can work on that later, but up to about 40 supply make sure you keep on top of those pylons.
you generally want to throw down your second pylon immediately after you queue your 16th probe and have 100 minerals.
-gateway robo gateway gateway is the best way to do 3gate robo vs Terran. the whole point of the robo is a fast observer the more you delay the observer the less the build is achieving. the only time you want the 2nd gateway first is if you know for sure the terran is planning some early aggression with marines or marauders or both, and its a relatively close distance map, ie, not scrap station.
-that said luckily for you your opponent was yet worse at supply blocking and workers, being 10 workers behind you at 7mins and getting supply blocked four times on the way there. but at least he killed your observer. i bet he feels super gosu for that
-when your observers die make more
you want at least two vs T at all times, one near their base one near yours
-dont get photon cannons with no reason to.
-if you're going robo and you know he has marauders (you knew) make at least one or two immortals
-i loooooved your fast upgrades. you were super on top of those and that was awesome
-ultimately you had far superior macro on your part. not the making probes and pylons part, because that was pretty bad, but you have an understanding of macro that he lacks. you know that making workers is important, even if you forget occasionally. you know that a safe build that transitions well into an expansion is important, even if you don't execute it flawlessly. and really the end of the replay tells the story, your overall situation was much better than his and looking at the game in isolation you were playing far better.
at 13 mins just before you attacked it was 47 workers to 24 with you on 2 bases.
the attack could use some work, you forcefielded and really did nothing because the entire of his army was in front of those forcefields and able to fire. the aim of forcefielding in PvT is to push the bulk of his army away from yours while you kill some of it. it was also a really really poorly timed attack. ill elaborate on that later.
i loved the zealots in his mineral line. it shoudn't have worked as well as it did (he had 3 workers left) but its still a neat trick capitalizing on his army being out of position.
ok so that attack at his front
check the replay at the time. you, 47 workers, two bases. him, 24 workers, 1 base. HOWEVER supply counts show the real story. while you were 25 supply ahead, that was all workers and you had the same size army. In addition, the larger a bioball gets, the less you can combat it with pure gateway units. 2-3 immortals would have paid huge dividends there.
all that is assuming you still wnated to attack there, which, you shouldn't have. Think of the game as a sliding scale, with 3 scales.
Tech, Economy, and Army. Generally speaking, you can ahve a build that emphasizes two of those things to the detriment of the third. A build that emphasizes one of those things is what we call all-in, or a huge gamble. a 15 Nexus, for example, focuses SOLELY on economy at the cost of tech and army to establish a huge economic lead. A 4gate sacrifices tech and economy to get a big army lead and end the game fast.
Your build, 3gate robo, establishes a good amount of tech (Robo and upgrades), a solid economy, and a good enough army to play defensively. While you CAN sometimes win with an offensive attack with it, its not a good idea to rely on. If you'd kept your army in your base for 3-4 more minutes, your economic advantage would have paid HUGE dividends and if you did then choose to attack, you would have been on that third base, had probably 20-30 more supply of ARMY, maybe even some Colossi, and would have crushed his feeble one base army. However, you instead attacked into an even-army situation, and your production and economy wasn't yet at the point where it could rebuild an army fast enough to defend.
Your forcefields at your natural were also shocking, if those were good you could POSSIBLY have held, but forget those for now, because the far more reliable way to win games is to not attack at bad times.
hope all this helps
Whoa. This is awesome. Thanks Dhal.
As I mentioned a few pages back, I'm going 3 gate obs opening every single game now, and this was my first ladder game in three weeks. I'm terribly rusty and I wasn't that good to begin with, but I'm hoping that having one build will allow me to concentrate on a lot of the little mistakes you mention.
I definitely have a problem constantly building probes, and the pylon block was just... I'm usually ok with that but I was literally fooling around with my scout for too long. But yeah, it was bad and I have to work on watching my food more closely.
Same type of problem building probes in that my production is just not constant. Hoping it can get better as I learn to check my hotkeys more.
And yeah my forcefields are just... well, my micro is pretty bad. Not sure how to improve that, because I have difficulty multitasking. Sometimes I think I shouldn't be playing P, but it's not as if the other races don't require good micro on their parts as well.
Your breakdown of the "the game is about three things, focus on two to be effective" is one of the most succinct ways of describing the game I've heard. I'll definitely think about that in terms of timing as I go forward, and focus particularly on defending attacks, good scouting, and perhaps low-risk poking and harass. My goal is to be active, but be active in a way that plays to my build strengths.
Wow that was sooo good!
Almost brought a tear to my eye, especially the Day9-Tasteless hugs and Artosis at the end. Loved the intensity of when everything went quite and you could only hear the SCVs and drones mining and shots of the players' faces.
I never played a lick of Brood War, but watching that made me want to fire it up and learn what the hell to do.
But alas, I'm spoiled by Starcraft 2, and the jump would not be good for my developing skillsets
I tried that a while back.
Its a nice idea.
In theory. But in practise its just not that fun to play it knowing how much less frustrating SC2 is.
Yeah, for me, Starcraft will always be 'the' game. For some people it's Counter-Strike, or Street Fighter, but for me, it's always Starcraft.
It all started with hearing about how people would be so good at Brood War, they could pay their bills and travel around the world. It's still a mindblowing prospect to me, which is why I'm so intimidated to learn the game
best part about watching someone going back to bw after sc2
1) watching the split (or lack of it)
2) watching workers idle at their town hall
I'm actually not too bad at this because I was told about the "select all workers and shift click the minerals and only the new ones will go mine it"
Lategame I tend to have 1-2 idling at each expansion but its better to be building them and let them idle for 10-20 seconds than to forget to build them entirely.
I never played a lick of Brood War, but watching that made me want to fire it up and learn what the hell to do.
But alas, I'm spoiled by Starcraft 2, and the jump would not be good for my developing skillsets
I tried that a while back.
Its a nice idea.
In theory. But in practise its just not that fun to play it knowing how much less frustrating SC2 is.
Yeah, for me, Starcraft will always be 'the' game. For some people it's Counter-Strike, or Street Fighter, but for me, it's always Starcraft.
It all started with hearing about how people would be so good at Brood War, they could pay their bills and travel around the world. It's still a mindblowing prospect to me, which is why I'm so intimidated to learn the game
Same. But, it was a lot better to play before SC2 because there was that small but passionate BW community.
Like 98% of the foreign BW players have moved on to SC2, and I just can't see myself trying to learn it without that community there. Which makes me sad, because I got into BW relatively late (whenever GSL 1 was), so I never really "had enough" of BW.
artosis' accent was funny in that vid, expected him to start chewing on wheat straw or something at any time
peacekeeper on
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
so earlier I saw tyler was streaming so I refreshed his justintv channel in my browser and thought I was watching live but somehow it was instead playing his cast from yesterday
now I'm watching his stream on TL... it better actually be live. that was strange.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
ironically hydras are actually better units, relative to other units in the game (not directly compared because thats dumb) they are more powerful, but they are also more expensive, later in tech, and economies are different in SC2, magnifying that price difference.
Okay guys, yell at me to ladder a ton tonight, and do nothing but 3rax
I need the motivation
uh, you sure better ladder tonight.
or..
or i guess
or you won't ladder! take THAT
edit: in fact what you should do is ladder, take your three worst losses (if you lose enough) and post them on gamereplays.org then link them here so we can critique
ironically hydras are actually better units, relative to other units in the game (not directly compared because thats dumb) they are more powerful, but they are also more expensive, later in tech, and economies are different in SC2, magnifying that price difference.
also they are a bunch of lardos who need to get on the treadmill
Posts
If dudes ragequit, they should get a rage quit icon next to their name for X time. I propose a cartoon version of Idra's head as the icon.
How random. Youtube works (a much more widespread time-suck), blip vods work, but jtv/GOM don't.
Actually, I'm pretty cross at GOM's VODs not getting through, if the other video services can manage it.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
I suspect, but don't know for sure, that its a port thing.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Which brings me back to my question about alternate viewing methods. Ahem.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
Outrage!
Whoa. This is awesome. Thanks Dhal.
As I mentioned a few pages back, I'm going 3 gate obs opening every single game now, and this was my first ladder game in three weeks. I'm terribly rusty and I wasn't that good to begin with, but I'm hoping that having one build will allow me to concentrate on a lot of the little mistakes you mention.
I definitely have a problem constantly building probes, and the pylon block was just... I'm usually ok with that but I was literally fooling around with my scout for too long. But yeah, it was bad and I have to work on watching my food more closely.
Same type of problem building probes in that my production is just not constant. Hoping it can get better as I learn to check my hotkeys more.
And yeah my forcefields are just... well, my micro is pretty bad. Not sure how to improve that, because I have difficulty multitasking. Sometimes I think I shouldn't be playing P, but it's not as if the other races don't require good micro on their parts as well.
Your breakdown of the "the game is about three things, focus on two to be effective" is one of the most succinct ways of describing the game I've heard. I'll definitely think about that in terms of timing as I go forward, and focus particularly on defending attacks, good scouting, and perhaps low-risk poking and harass. My goal is to be active, but be active in a way that plays to my build strengths.
All diamond level opponents and one masters level.
(although it is bw artosis)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0fV5KADifY
highlight of the video?
I loved this. Felt bad for Artosis though.
Edit: and it's Mick Foley not Rick Foley you dummy
i got my point across
so
Almost brought a tear to my eye, especially the Day9-Tasteless hugs and Artosis at the end. Loved the intensity of when everything went quite and you could only hear the SCVs and drones mining and shots of the players' faces.
But alas, I'm spoiled by Starcraft 2, and the jump would not be good for my developing skillsets
I tried that a while back.
Its a nice idea.
In theory. But in practise its just not that fun to play it knowing how much less frustrating SC2 is.
1) watching the split (or lack of it)
2) watching workers idle at their town hall
Yeah, for me, Starcraft will always be 'the' game. For some people it's Counter-Strike, or Street Fighter, but for me, it's always Starcraft.
It all started with hearing about how people would be so good at Brood War, they could pay their bills and travel around the world. It's still a mindblowing prospect to me, which is why I'm so intimidated to learn the game
town hall? that's a warcraft reference right?
I'm actually not too bad at this because I was told about the "select all workers and shift click the minerals and only the new ones will go mine it"
Lategame I tend to have 1-2 idling at each expansion but its better to be building them and let them idle for 10-20 seconds than to forget to build them entirely.
warcraft had town halls yeah
but i was just using it more of a general term for nexus/cc/hatch
edit: yeah its better to have them idle
but ive seen some people have like three idling on one base because they werent back in the habit of putting them on minerals
Same. But, it was a lot better to play before SC2 because there was that small but passionate BW community.
Like 98% of the foreign BW players have moved on to SC2, and I just can't see myself trying to learn it without that community there. Which makes me sad, because I got into BW relatively late (whenever GSL 1 was), so I never really "had enough" of BW.
gretorp streaming now
although teeler is too
and then in one hour there's going to be a kawaiirice v sheth showmatch
and i was supposed to get work done tonight
"Hey, how'd you get in here?"
now I'm watching his stream on TL... it better actually be live. that was strange.
I don't care how much hp it had that would never ever happen in sc2
too bad about sc2...
I need the motivation
uh, you sure better ladder tonight.
or..
or i guess
or you won't ladder! take THAT
edit: in fact what you should do is ladder, take your three worst losses (if you lose enough) and post them on gamereplays.org then link them here so we can critique
also they are a bunch of lardos who need to get on the treadmill
I shall do what you ask
-
Hydras owned more in bw? Yeah, but so did everything else. Tanks, storms, reavers (instead of clownossi), etc.