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Guns to be allowed on Texas campuses
Cmdr Sheppard
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This is wonderful news! Colleges and universities in Texas are allowing students to carry guns now, if they recieve proper training. It's nice to know the system works from time to time. Now we need this to pass nation-wide. The bad guys already have guns, it's time we let the good guys have them too. Oh and before any liberals who want to ban guns come into this thread, you should know that you are six times more likely to get mugged in London where guns are banned) than in New York City, and that burglars claim that they fear armed home owners more than they do the police, and in England the burglar rate is 53% higher than America (which has a burglar percent of 13%): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2656875.stm
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Texas is preparing to give college students and professors the right to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms.
More than half the members of the Texas House have signed on as co-authors of a measure directing universities to allow concealed handguns. The Senate passed a similar bill in 2009 and is expected to do so again. Republican Gov. Rick Perry, who sometimes packs a pistol when he jogs, has said he's in favor of the idea.
Texas has become a prime battleground for the issue because of its gun culture and its size, with 38 public universities and more than 500,000 students. It would become the second state, following Utah, to pass such a broad-based law. Colorado gives colleges the option and several have allowed handguns.
Supporters of the legislation argue that gun violence on campuses, such as the mass shootings at Virginia Tech in 2007 and Northern Illinois in 2008, show that the best defense against a gunman is students who can shoot back.
Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-20-texas-guns_N.htm
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That said, I don't see this changing anything, really. Aside from some snark about making frat parties a bit more exciting.
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Okay, let me explain something to you.
New York City has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country.
It's nigh-impossible to legally own a handgun here.
Please do not use New York City as your example of how awesome America's lack of coherent gun control laws is.
Because it makes you look really, really silly.
"So, ask the student next to you if you can borrow their textbook for class. And imagine they're armed and have no reason to like you."
:P
exactly!
Now when two students (or whoever) are engaged in a gun fight you can easily side with ....
oh damn.
Rigorous Scholarship
Only really small minded people with a limited world view could possibly think that adding more guns into the equation makes things better.
Yeah, those laws don't mean shit to the bad guys.
I'm not saying gun crime would be down in NYC if the laws were less strict, I'm just saying that generally criminals don't follow the laws.
"It's nice to know the system works from time to time."
Shit, why limit it to colleges? Let's allow guns on elementary school campuses too!
It's bad enough 1 psychopath can do so much harm, but now every drunken fool with instability issues will have a gun on campus. I hope their online courses are robust and fantastic. If my college did this, I'd stop going, because I flat out don't trust other people to be reasonable, rational, calm or even have any sort of respect for firearms and firearm safety.
Texas's concealed carry exemption list:
· A place of business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic
beverages for on premises consumption
· On premises of a correctional facility
· On the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on
which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a
passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private,
· On the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event of
interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a
handgun is used in the event
· On the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress.
· racetrack; secured area of an airport
· In any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations
or written authorization of the court.
· *on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
· *On the premises of a Hospital licensed under the Health and Safety Code
· *On the premises of a nursing home licensed under the Health and Safety Code
· *Amusement parks. Amusement Parks means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park
where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a
population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed
with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each
calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include
any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or
other parking area.
Rigorous Scholarship
Except that the low crime rate in NYC is a pretty major counterfactual to the claim amongst gun control opponents that gun control laws have no impact on crime, or even exacerbate it.
If anything, the lack of gun control laws in other states on the Eastern Seaboard exacerbate NYC's gun crime rate.
Also, of course criminals don't think laws mean shit. That's why we call them criminals.
"I got a vaccine and got sick anyways! Vaccines don't work!"
Only really small minded people with a limited world view could possibly think that adding more guns has never improved a situation.
In the real world, we have to deal with context.
"Low crime rates?" Ridiculous. You need a lot of fucking qualifiers before that statement becomes true. Most places I've lived, including poor areas with drug problems, would be aghast if the crime rate rocketed up to NYC levels.
I'd say that 'in context' in this case would be high stress classes and lots of cheap booze afterwords.
edit: unless college is different now?
Walk into a room after gunfire, see two dead and someone with a gun? Point gun at him and demand he drop it.
Walk into a room after gunfire, see two dead and three people with guns? Well fuck me, bad guys should have a uniform or something.
They do well at the "I was present when all this went down" situation, where you know what happened from start until now. They do poorly at the "Ima be a hero and go help whatever just happened!" thing, because you really need to be a couple of cops to have the training and authority to identify threats and get everyone disarmed.
edit: yes, and none of this is taking into account that while Texas bans concealed carry at bars (or anywhere that gets 51% of it's income from booze sales), college campuses are a very similar level of drinking, without the "income" qualifier to force people to leave their guns at home.
edit2: possibly fixed by a "carrying while intoxicated" law, wherein being found carrying a concealed weapon while over a legal limit of BAC would be a crime.
Your second point is where the real problem lies. It's the sale of illegal weaponry in outlaying areas. Look at DC. DC is rampant with gun crime. None of it from legal guns, it's all illegal guns brought in from the surrounding areas that do not have the same laws and restrictions. Chicago has the same problem. You simply can't ban guns within a city limit and expect that to end the problem. It just moves the problem outward, and then, it comes back in anyways!
Hurray.
When you mean Virginia, say Virginia.
Concealed carry has repeatedly been touted by pro-gun people as the cure-all for gun violence. I've yet to see it actually be anything of the sort. Hell, the one situation I'm aware of that was "successful", the intervenor was killed. Concealed carry isn't a vaccine, it's snake oil. Try a real analogy.
Show your work then. Don't just say that it works, give us some examples of it working.
The truth is that cops are trained to use their firearms under stress, they go to work expecting to do so, and they still fuck up. And you expect regular people who aren't as well trained and prepared as cops to handle themselves as well as a cop under stress? The premise is ridiculous on its face.
Oh, really.
The per capita violent crime rates in NYC are lower than most other major metropolitan areas.
I'm wondering, exactly, in which cities you've lived where the per-capita crime rate is lower.
To lessen gun violence, the sale and trade of illegal guns is what should be investigated and dealt with. Not further hampering the sale and trade of legal guns.
Where are you going with this? If an apartment building has a lot of young people living there, should it be more limited in terms of gun rights?
Rigorous Scholarship
Logic has no place in a "think of the children!!" argument. You know better.
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
Except that in the case of guns being illegally shipped in to NYC and DC and other East Coast metro areas from the gun buying free-for-all that is Virginia and other states, it's far easier to "hamper" (or "regulate") the sale and trade of guns than to attempt to stem all of those illegal gun smugglers.
I never said it was easy. It's not going to be easy. It shouldn't be easy. But if you want to solve the real problem, sometimes, you have to do some hard work.
I don't know about you, but when I was in school it was common to drink in one dorm room, wander to another dorm with some friends, drink there, and continue on.
I'm saying that in tune with the 51% rule with Concealed Carry in Texas, it would make sense if it was modified to make it illegal to go from point A to point B while wasted and armed.
I shouldn't be hopping from party to party while packing heat, if the logic already in the law is that drunk + armed = bad idea.
Fuck "think of the children". How about "think of everyone in the line of fire between a bad guy and some guy who thinks he's a fucking hero." Unless I'm mistaken, passing a course to get your CCW doesn't make you a deadshot, nor does it give you the ability to never hit bystanders with your stray shots.
Yes, that's worked so well when it comes to illegal drugs and illegal immigration.
The concept that states and cities with gun control laws should just suck it up and spend a metric shit-ton of money dealing with gun smuggling and the resultant gun crimes simply so the states that profit from those sales can avoid even the most common sense of new gun control laws is ridiculous.
Edit: In another context, what would make it easier for law enforcement officials to curtail a meth problem in their city, curtailing and regulating the sale of the pharmaceutical ingredients that are used to cook meth, stepping up raids on possible meth labs, or both?
Did you even read the entire article?
It's narrow-minded to believe either way that guns make situations worse or better.
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
Rigorous Scholarship