As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Let's talk about the Cleveland, TX rape incident and how TX is terrible in general

joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class TraitorSmoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
edited March 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
So I was reading this story, and it's pretty much the worst thing.
The alleged gang rape of an 11-year-old girl by at least 18 boys and young men has sparked shame and outrage in a tiny Texas town, but it has also stirred racial tensions that threaten to split the East Texas hamlet.

All of the defendants arrested are African-American and the girl is Hispanic.

The hardscrabble town of Cleveland, which is 45 miles from Houston, has fewer than 8,000 residents and since the saw mill closed the biggest employers are Wal-Mart and a nearby prison. In a town this small, everyone is a neighbor, but that small town ambience is being severely strained.

The rape allegedly occurred last November, and the list of suspects has been growing as arrests keep coming. It's not clear whether more arrests are in the works.

The suspects range in age from 14 to 26, include stars on the high school's basketball team as well as the son of a school board member.

But as the investigation drags on, the shock and indignation has been tinged with an undercurrent of racial tension.

"I feel sorry for the little girl. I feel sorry for everyone involved...the city is in turmoil," Inez Dickerson said.

Dickerson, 68, is the great-grandmother of one of the defendants in the case. Her grandson has not been publicly identified by police because he is a minor.

Dickerson remembers when her great-grandson called to tell her the crime he's accused of committing.

"When I got on the phone, he was crying. He said, 'Granny, I've been accused of something. I'm scared,'" Dickerson said. "He's pretty tore up about it."

"I'm not going to play the race card on this because my grandson and all the rest were very young men and they could have given a second thought on this," Dickerson said.

While Dickerson believes the flaring of racial tensions isn't warranted, others disagree.

Houston community activist Quanell X will host a town hall meeting this evening called "What's the real truth behind the rape allegations?"

"Every adult male that had sex with this child should go to prison, I don't care what the color is. But I do not believe black males are the only ones that had contact with this young child," said Quanell X, the leader of Houston's New Black Panther Party. "It appears to me there's only been the selective prosecution of one community, which is African American."

Quannell X said the rally has been moved from a church to a community center because, "The church received some death threats."

The village has a history of racial violence. In 1988, an African American man was arrested in Cleveland for allegedly stealing a fountain pen. The man, 30-year-old Kenneth Simpson, was allegedly beaten to death by white police officers while in prison. The officers were acquitted of murder charges and returned to work.

In addition, Cleveland is embroiled in a political scandal where three city council members are facing a recall election following complaints of corruption. All three of those city council members are African American.

More than half of the town is white, with the rest of the residents split between blacks and Hispanics.

Most of the defendants have ties to Precinct 20, the nickname for the predominantly African-American neighborhood in Cleveland. The black neighborhood is sometimes referred to as "the quarters."

Cleveland police began investigating the rape in December of last year after cell phone video showing the alleged sex attack started circulating among students at Cleveland schools, according to court documents. The video shows the girl engaged in sexual acts with several men.

The girl told authorities that the weekend after Thanksgiving she was asked if she wanted to ride around with three of the defendants in the case. The girl, described as a straight A student by those who know her, rode with the young men to a blue house with white trim, according to court documents.

As the night unfolded, numerous men came to the house and later an abandoned trailer to have sex with the girl, according to court documents.

The video surfaced because some of the girl's attackers used their cell phones to take photographs and to film the assaults.

The girl, who has not been identified because she is a minor and the alleged victim of a sex crime, said that she was told by the men that they "would have some girls 'beat her up' or she would not be taken back to her residence" if she didn't have sex with them, according to court documents.

When a relative of one of the defendants was heard returning to the blue house, the group hurriedly moved to an abandoned trailer. The girl left behind her bra and panties, according to the court documents.

The girl has been removed from the custody of her parents.

(...)

"It's becoming a black and white issue because it happened over in the quarters. It's segregating our community again," Myers said. "The reaction is anger, devastation."

So, the article does a pretty good job of explaining what's going on, I think. There's some pretty major goosery in this small town, but it's not limited to that one area. I live in Texas and the things some people will say completely seriously make me ashamed to share the same species as them.

I think it's pretty telling that a community of black people is getting death threats in response to a rape. Even though a gang rape is extremely tragic and serious, the fact that it's becoming a racial issue through the news and the perceived correct response is, "We will kill your race" makes me nothing short of flabbergasted.

EDIT: Okay, so this is now a general thread on the event and how people can be terrible in general. Clearly there is race-baiting going on and I didn't mean for this thread to help that.

In any case, if Texas wants to secede, I say let them. Maybe it will finally kick my ass hard enough to get me out of here for good.

joshofalltrades on
«13456710

Posts

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh and by the way, the comments section on that ABC article is what prompted this thread. There is some fucking abhorrent shit in there. I would not feel comfortable copy-pasting anything I read there on this board. You can click the link if you're really curious, but consider yourself warned.

    joshofalltrades on
  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The fuck. 8000 population and they could find double digit human beings to have sex with an 11 year old. Really didn't need to read that story.

    Edit: I can't comment on the racism bit because the story is just too fucked up to even go into race for me.....

    zeeny on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah, racism is alive and well. But, other than some heated comments, I'm not sure what racism has to do with the underlying case here.

    Looks like a bunch of guys who happen to be black sexually assaulted a girl who happens to be hispanic. There doesn't seem to be any evidence in that article that the authorities are handling this in a discriminatory manner.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I just read the article. That was horrible enough. I don't think I could handle the comments.

    WHAT THE FUCK HUMANITY?!

    Deebaser on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Yeah, racism is alive and well. But, other than some heated comments, I'm not sure what racism has to do with the underlying case here.

    Looks like a bunch of guys who happen to be black sexually assaulted a girl who happens to be hispanic. There doesn't seem to be any evidence in that article that the authorities are handling this in a discriminatory manner.

    That's true, and I would say that Mr. Quannell X is not helping things by speculating that there must have been another race involved besides his own without actually having any facts to back something like that up.

    That said, it's exposed some pretty ugly sentiments. Fucking death threats to a black church. It feels like we've stepped into a god damn time machine.

    joshofalltrades on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    That said, it's exposed some pretty ugly sentiments. Fucking death threats to a black church. It feels like we've stepped into a god damn time machine.
    People are pissed off because of the allegations of an 11 year-old gretting raped by 18 guys. It doesn't justify death threats, but people losing their shit over this situation is kind of different than black churches getting death threats for trying to register black voters.

    I'm really not sure where the racism angle comes into play here.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Quanell X is nothing but a race baiting thug. To him, everything is racist in the city. I don't even think it was a racial thing until Quanell X got involved with it. It was a group of kids raping a girl. Hell, there was no mention of the girl being hispanic in any of the local news reports until I saw this article. The family has already moved from the town because they are being threatened by supporters of the suspects.

    What happened in Cleveland is shocking and I think when everything settles the actual numbers of those who raped the girl won't be as high but they would have been present and did not help her or somesuch, but even more disturbing is how the parents of the suspects don't deny that their sons may have had sex with the 11 year old girl but that it's the girl's fault because her parents should have known where she was. It's a blame the victim deflection of their own kids being disgusting people.

    I really don't think this is a racial issue, the news is just now trying to make it racial because of past incidents. Cleveland isn't Vider, TX which was a hub of KKK activity in 60s-80s.

    TexiKen on
  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    how the parents of the suspects don't deny that their sons may have had sex with the 11 year old girl but that it's the girl's fault because her parents should have known where she was.

    You're shitting me.

    zeeny on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I'm not sure what racism has to do with the underlying case here.
    .

    Well, its clear from the OP's post that he is bigoted against Texans.

    As he says himself, "racism" is everywhere, and like a good inquisitor, he must ferret it out. A case of tensions running high over crime is an excellent opportunity to uncover the heretics that he knows are lurking everywhere.

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Cleveland police began investigating the rape in December of last year after cell phone video showing the alleged sex attack started circulating among students at Cleveland schools, according to court documents. The video shows the girl engaged in sexual acts with several men.

    This disturbs me more than the possible racism. Video of a young girl being raped was being passed around for ... laughs? Were these fucked up teens giving high-fives to one another as they shared the video with other fucked up teens, too?

    emnmnme on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    zeeny wrote: »
    how the parents of the suspects don't deny that their sons may have had sex with the 11 year old girl but that it's the girl's fault because her parents should have known where she was.

    You're shitting me.

    No, I'm pretty sure that's in a part of the article I didn't copy pasta here.

    joshofalltrades on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Regardless of what's actually going on in Cleveland (I don't live there myself, and I personally can't comment on it) or how it became a racial issue, it is one now. If ABC was trying to turn it into a race issue, it worked. Go read the comments if you're unsure.

    joshofalltrades on
  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    zeeny wrote: »
    how the parents of the suspects don't deny that their sons may have had sex with the 11 year old girl but that it's the girl's fault because her parents should have known where she was.

    You're shitting me.

    No, I'm pretty sure that's in a part of the article I didn't copy pasta here.

    They should put the whole place under quarantine. There is something in the water.

    zeeny on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    zeeny wrote: »
    how the parents of the suspects don't deny that their sons may have had sex with the 11 year old girl but that it's the girl's fault because her parents should have known where she was.

    You're shitting me.

    This is the issue I initially saw connected to the news reports. More sexism-related(she was dressed like a slut, how could her parents let her do that, etc), than race-related.
    Regardless of what's actually going on in Cleveland (I don't live there myself, and I personally can't comment on it) or how it became a racial issue, it is one now. If ABC was trying to turn it into a race issue, it worked. Go read the comments if you're unsure.

    If that's the case, then what's the evidence that racism is alive in Texas(other than it is anyways). The death threat might not even come from Texas. Your original post places racism in Cleveland as the source of the turbulence in Cleveland.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Here is an article about how "She didn't look like she was 11."

    And here is a interview plus video with one of the parents of a suspect. At the bottom they also link a lot of other articles about the case that show almost a blind eye being turned to what happened and that the cops seem to be able to verify.

    FOX 26: When you found out that your son was accused of raping an 11 year old girl...(interrupted by Hancock)

    Hancock: It was in the paper.

    FOX 26: What did you do? Did you talk to your son?

    Hancock: Yes I did. Yes I did. I said, 'Baby, I'm your momma. You can talk to me.' (The victim) said she was 17 years old and that's what he told me.

    FOX 26: But Anita, a lot of people would say, 'This is an 11 year old child. Even if she lied, she's eleven.'

    Hancock: I understand that. I understand that. I'm not defending him. I'm not defending her. I'm not defending no child because if it were my child, I would feel the same way. My point is, where was her mother?

    FOX 26: If this was reversed. If your son wasn't your son, but you were the mother of this 11 year old, what would you do? What would you say? What is justice?

    Hancock: First of all, I would know where she was. That's the justice. Not knowing where your baby is is not justice. I feel like she should be accounted for not knowing where your baby at.

    FOX 26: What lesson does you son need to learn?

    Hancock: ID. Identification. This (holding up nametag and picture) is what you ask for baby.

    FOX 26: So you're going to tell your son, next time he meets a girl to ask for her ID?

    Hancock: Identification.

    TexiKen on
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Really OP is upset that people are sending out death threats over a meeting to harass the cops arresting people in connection with the gang rape of an 11 year old?

    The only racial issue is Quanel X declaring that the cops are racist because surely this girl was raped by more than just black men. I mean who wouldn't support that meeting.

    tinwhiskers on
    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Regardless of what's actually going on in Cleveland (I don't live there myself, and I personally can't comment on it) or how it became a racial issue, it is one now. If ABC was trying to turn it into a race issue, it worked. Go read the comments if you're unsure.
    Some people are race-baiting, I guess.

    But, at the end of the day, is there any evidence that the police and prosecution are treating the victim or the accused differently based on their race? If people in the community want to be assholes about this, I guess that's their right. But so long as the police and the prosecution approach this case fairly and professionally, who gives a shit what some moron with the last name "X" has to say?

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    UUUuuuuuugh.

    I don't think that line of reasoning works with any other crime, why would it work for this crime?

    "It's not my boy's fault! Where were the homeowners when their house got robbed?!"

    joshofalltrades on
  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OX 26: Are you mad at your son?

    Hancock: Am I mad at him? For not being alert of age and not asking 'how old are you?' He was the only one who turned himself in because he felt bad because he has nieces. He said, "Mama ain't no way.' You can just feel the hurt.

    Cause if she were 17, he would have felt fine! Gang raping a young girl and not a child so much better!
    This town shares a single brain cell and it prob was resting when all this happened.

    Edit: I'm going to make an effort not to read this thread. For real. Way too depressing.

    zeeny on
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    UUUuuuuuugh.

    I don't think that line of reasoning works with any other crime, why would it work for this crime?

    "It's not my boy's fault! Where were the homeowners when their house got robbed?!"

    Reporter should of asked her Where She was when her son was raping a little girl.

    tinwhiskers on
    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    She...didn't... look... like she was 11?

    Holy fuck. I can't see how anyone could ever force their mouths to form those words with an otherwise straight face? How have these people not blown their fucking brains out in shame?

    Deebaser on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Really OP is upset that people are sending out death threats over a meeting to harass the cops arresting people in connection with the gang rape of an 11 year old?

    The only racial issue is Quanel X declaring that the cops are racist because surely this girl was raped by more than just black men. I mean who wouldn't support that meeting.

    You're right, death threats against a group of black people couldn't possibly be racist and are totally reasonable.

    I already said I think Mr. X isn't helping. What exactly is your point?

    Death threats != not supporting a meeting.

    joshofalltrades on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    zeeny wrote: »
    OX 26: Are you mad at your son?

    Hancock: Am I mad at him? For not being alert of age and not asking 'how old are you?' He was the only one who turned himself in because he felt bad because he has nieces. He said, "Mama ain't no way.' You can just feel the hurt.

    Cause if she were 17, he would have felt fine! Gang raping a young girl and not a child so much better!
    This town shares a single brain cell and it prob was resting when all this happened.

    Edit: I'm going to make an effort not to read this thread. For real. Way too depressing.
    I doubt the accused told their parents they gang raped this girl. They most likely said that the sex was consensual and that they really thought the girl was older. Maybe they're lying, but their family members want to believe that this was a misunderstanding, rather than a horrible crime committed by their "babies."

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Death Threats are a subset of Not Supporting a Meeting.

    If it was a meeting on improving your parenting so your sons don't gang rape people, it might not have gotten the threats. Instead its rape-apologist bullshit.

    tinwhiskers on
    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Really OP is upset that people are sending out death threats over a meeting to harass the cops arresting people in connection with the gang rape of an 11 year old?

    The only racial issue is Quanel X declaring that the cops are racist because surely this girl was raped by more than just black men. I mean who wouldn't support that meeting.

    You're right, death threats against a group of black people couldn't possibly be racist and are totally reasonable.

    I already said I think Mr. X isn't helping. What exactly is your point?

    Death threats != not supporting a meeting.

    Neither are they necessarily racist. It would depend on the substance of the death threats.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Well, innocent until proven guilty and all that. I believe the police are doing their best to find the true culprits, and I don't think turning it into a racial issue by having this sort of meeting is a good response, but neither do I think death threats are a reasonable action to take in response to it.

    joshofalltrades on
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Thread could really stand a better title. Current title is bait-and-rape.

    enc0re on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Death threats != not supporting a meeting.

    Why are you assuming the death threats came from bigoted white people? Anyone could be furious that Quannell X is defending child rapists only because the accused have black skin. Does the black church regularly receive death threats or is this a one-time event?

    emnmnme on
  • taoist drunktaoist drunk Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Septus wrote: »
    zeeny wrote: »
    how the parents of the suspects don't deny that their sons may have had sex with the 11 year old girl but that it's the girl's fault because her parents should have known where she was.

    You're shitting me.

    This is the issue I initially saw connected to the news reports. More sexism-related(she was dressed like a slut, how could her parents let her do that, etc), than race-related.
    Regardless of what's actually going on in Cleveland (I don't live there myself, and I personally can't comment on it) or how it became a racial issue, it is one now. If ABC was trying to turn it into a race issue, it worked. Go read the comments if you're unsure.

    If that's the case, then what's the evidence that racism is alive in Texas(other than it is anyways). The death threat might not even come from Texas. Your original post places racism in Cleveland as the source of the turbulence in Cleveland.

    While I believe that issues of racism and sexism can be present in the same place and very often are, this really stood out for me. This paragraph in the NYT story on the subject? Totally unnecessary:
    Residents in the neighborhood where the abandoned trailer stands — known as the Quarters — said the victim had been visiting various friends there for months. They said she dressed older than her age, wearing makeup and fashions more appropriate to a woman in her 20s. She would hang out with teenage boys at a playground, some said.

    Plus the fact that the word "rape" is used just twice in the story compared to "assault" (or "assaulted" or "assaults") 7 times doesn't sit quite right with me.

    And "if the allegations are proved, how could their young men have been drawn into such an act?"

    the fuck?

    taoist drunk on
  • Cmdr SheppardCmdr Sheppard __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2011
    A stupid group of inbred gang bangers /=/ entire state of Texas

    Cmdr Sheppard on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    When I saw the thread title, I thought it was going to be about that whites-only scholarship fund.

    Unfortunately, this is far more reprehensible. Humanity, you sure try to make it hard to have faith in you.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    enc0re wrote: »
    Thread could really stand a better title. Current title is bait-and-rape.

    Better?

    joshofalltrades on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    enc0re wrote: »
    Thread could really stand a better title. Current title is bait-and-rape.

    Better?

    Don't mess with Texas! The new thread title is messing with Texas!

    emnmnme on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Texas is not a terrible place though. It could be better in some places but I love my state.

    TexiKen on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Texas is not a terrible place though. It could be better in some places but I love my state.

    Do you live in Austin?

    joshofalltrades on
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Texas is not a terrible place though. It could be better in some places but I love my state.

    Here we go...

    KalTorak on
  • Mmmm... Cocks...Mmmm... Cocks... Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Texas is not a terrible place though. It could be better in some places but I love my state.
    Its a huge place, I live in PA (the state obviously) and there are plenty of places that are horrible. But it also houses most of my favorite places.

    I'm sure my state could fit into yours at least 4 or 5 times.

    Mmmm... Cocks... on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Texas is not a terrible place though. It could be better in some places but I love my state.

    Here we go...
    It was bound to happen.

    Every D&D thread is about Obama, Education Reform or Texas eventually.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Texas is not a terrible place though. It could be better in some places but I love my state.

    Here we go...
    It was bound to happen.

    Every D&D thread is about Obama, Education Reform or Texas eventually.

    Education reform could have prevented this and Obama has been named by the police as a suspect!
    GO!

    zeeny on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    You're joking, I know, but Texas' state education spending is way, way down compared to other states. Last I checked it was 37th in the whole US, but it's the 2nd most populous state in America. Maybe more education would have prevented an incident like this, we can't know for sure, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt.

    There are other factors to consider as well, like poverty. We're not the worst on poverty but the ones that are worse have lower populations, and the rich people are less rich.

    joshofalltrades on
Sign In or Register to comment.