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Kansas City isn't in Kansas?
finral
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
This coming fall, I will be accompanying my girlfriend when she goes to law school. She has been accepted at about 8 different schools, which is great, and I'm excited about moving away from Seattle. However, she has just told me that out of all the schools, she is currently preferring the one that is located in Kansas City, MO. This happens to be the one place she has been accepted that I have absolutely no interest in going to.
Background out of the way, on to the advice request. I am totally okay with moving to this place if it is really the best choice for her. Competition in my career field is too fierce in Seattle for me to compete, and most of my friends have left the city during my two year hiatus in China. I'm hoping that someone here can A: convince me that Kansas City is a totally cool place to live and I will love it, or B: tell me why it is the worst place on Earth and I can use that to convince her to look at other options.
Bonus points for making me feel that an environmental scientist will be a sought after commodity
Background out of the way, on to the advice request. I am totally okay with moving to this place if it is really the best choice for her. Competition in my career field is too fierce in Seattle for me to compete, and most of my friends have left the city during my two year hiatus in China. I'm hoping that someone here can A: convince me that Kansas City is a totally cool place to live and I will love it, or B: tell me why it is the worst place on Earth and I can use that to convince her to look at other options.
Bonus points for making me feel that an environmental scientist will be a sought after commodity
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There isn't anything specific I don't like about Kansas City, I just have this vague impression that nothing happens there, and am hoping to hear that interesting stuff goes on, be it music or what have you. I guess our other options are all in places that I know about and think could be neat, but for this one, I'm totally in the dark. I'm also a little weirded out by the idea of not living near a coast, been near water my whole life.
this is not necessarily true.
yes, often times law students will end up practicing law near where they went to school, but with the legal market the way it is, law students are looking everywhere for jobs now.
when it's time to take the bar, she doesn't even have to take it for Missouri (if it's required there), she can easily choose to take the bar for some other jurisdiction.
is the Kansas City school the best of the lot where she was accepted?
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
Disclaimer: I grew up in Omaha, NE, and went to college in Ames, IA, but now I live in Los Angeles (after 3 years in Chicago for grad school). I've been to KC a lot and have a bunch of friends that went to college there.
Going from the west coast to the midwest will be... jarring. Your suspicion that there will be nothing to do is mostly correct. KC is three hundred miles of suburban sprawl and virtuall nothing else, like most midwestern cities. Not saying it's a bad place to live, exactly, but it's no St Louis or Seattle. If you like malls and theme bars you might dig it.
So if you're down with tailgating with Chiefs and/or Royals fans, that's a great way to spend a day.
But the middle of the country is a lot less... diverse in terms of available activities than the coasts are. So unless your primary entertainment outlets are online, you shouldn't assume there's some place to do that thing you like to do. Because there probably isn't, at least not one that you don't have to drive an hour to get to.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
But if you like contemporary art, fine dining, classical music, opera, live theater, arthouse movies, comic books, tabletop gaming, locally-grown organic produce, or jazz? We've got you covered. In particular, KC has a huge and thriving arts community with dozens of galleries and boutiques around the metro area, and if you and your girlfriend are at all interested in art attending some openings is a great way to meet people your age and network.
The cost of living is cheap-cheap-cheap; you'll be able to get more space for less money in a nicer area than you could ever have imagined in Seattle. My best friend bought a two-bedroom home on an $11/hr security guard's wage and is now renting it out for a tidy profit.
The big downside is this: you need cars. At least one, preferably two. KC is spread out as fuck and the odds of you guys living, working and going to school in the same walkable area are going to be minimal at best, although it is doable with some planning.
Well, you probably don't go skiing or surfing on weekends. I spent some summers in Holton, Kansas, and although I enjoyed it quite a bit there isn't quite the natural variety you get in, say, Oregon.
If those things don't bother the OP, though, Kansas City seemed perfectly nice to me. If it's his girlfriend's best choice, there really isn't much to debate.
1. I go to law school at the school your girlfriend wants to go to. If you or she have any questions about it, just shoot me a PM.
2. Kansas City isn't a black hole of culture. Everything jacobkosh said is 100% accurate. No, you can't go surfing, but you can't do that in Chicago either. Kansas City is a nice place to live and it's only 3 years. Your girlfriend won't be stuck practicing law in the midwest just because she went to school here.
@fightinfilipino: I'm not sure if it is the best school, but it is definitely one of the better ones.
@zilo: That is exactly what I'm afraid of! I can't say I would be particularly into mall or theme bars. I'm pretty big into outdoors, hiking, and rock climbing.
@OptimusZed: I'm not a huge sports fan really, so that is unfortunate. I am pretty big into soccer, but I'm guessing that isn't a big sport for the midwest. Go Sounders!
@jacobkosh: Okay, finally some good things to hear about KC, thanks. I am into a lot of those things, so that is good to hear. We have one car, and I'm not opposed to getting another one if necessary. I am a little worried about the music scene. While I have a pretty broad taste, my favorite music for shows tends to be punk, and I'm guessing there may not be a lot of that going on. Cheap sounds good. After living in Seattle, everywhere seems cheap though.
@Fats: I'm guessing that natural variety means no good mountaineering? The idea of flat places weirds me out.
@Evil_Reaver: Thanks a lot, I will tell her that. I'm sure she will PM you when we figure things out a little more. I know it is only 3 years, so that makes me okay with it. I am a little worried about the job market for my career path, but I have found a few postings so maybe it is ok.
Thanks for the comments thus far, keep em coming.
Do you enjoy barbeque and/or steak? KC apparently does have an MLS team, but the Sounders play there August 6th, which might precede your arrival.
Football is king in the midwest, but soccer is also very popular. We even have our own MLS team and professional indoor soccer team. You also might have heard of our professional football team and baseball team. We also have three Big 12 universities within 2 hours of the metro that have sporting teams. Not to mention the fact that your girlfriend's (maybe) law school has athletics as well. Kansas City has a rugby club and also a semi-pro hockey team.
The point is that you're doing it wrong if you can't find sports in Kansas City. Soccer is kind of a big deal here, just not as big as football. There's 2 indoor soccer facilities and one of the biggest outdoor soccer complexes in the nation. So yeah, you'll be fine.
And seriously, have your girlfriend PM me. I'm a student emissary to the school (think "face of the law school"), so I have access to deans and Very Important People who can answer her questions if I can't.
I would plan on buying a car soon after you get there. KC is huge and its public transportation is awful. Plus, the better hiking/climbing areas are going to be in SW Missouri/NW Arkansas, about a 3 hour drive.
They do seem to be well-run but god damn
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
@Bluefoot: Good to know about the EPA headquarters, that is pretty promising. For a weirdly specific question, any idea on the prevalence of wetland areas in MO? My most specific training is in wetland delineation, although I'm qualified for other things as well.
@I Zimbra: Thanks for the music tip, that sounds pretty promising.
@Evil_Reaver: Thanks a lot for the advice offer. I'm sure she'll have plenty of questions.
Now, it's entirely possible that there are huge chunks of the KC cultural experience I simply never found, but the sheer amount of things to do in a larger coastal city that is an hour from the beach and a couple of hours away from the mountains is rather vast. As a teenager and young adult in Kansas, this stuff just never existed for me.
Edit: Obviously, those more familiar with the specific area in question should be deferred to in this. My experience with KC is that of a kid road-tripping in for school functions and the occasional concert.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
No idea on the wetlands thing, sorry. There are a lot of artificial lakes.
It is an enormous metro area, for good and bad. Lots of places to go, things to do, and as said before, it is a cheap place to live and play. This goes for any large metro area, but your experience will vary just based on where you live. Lots of different neighborhoods and cities to live in, that all seem to have their own vibe. There is a ton of urban sprawl, and I'm sorry to say the outdoors scene is lacking. Sure, we have some okay parks to take advantage of, but nothing like out west.
Re: law, I'll say that it can be hard to get a degree in a different state than you want to work, because no one will take you seriously as an applicant unless you're licensed there, and no-one wants to take the Bar more than once. As a grad of a Midwestern law school, I'll tell you that I don't know anyone from my class practicing internationally. If you're going to school somewhere other than a big coastal city, you better have a school with a program that provides lots of contacts and work opportunities overseas during those 3 years, because that firm that NY firm that wants to open an office in China is going to be mighty skeptical of a newly-minted associate from flyover country.
@LaPuzza: I'm not too worried about the weather, although I'm not a big fan of high humidity. As for the law stuff, its more of a concern. We are trying to find a school that has connections in Asia, China specifically, already. Also, anyone out there know of how easy it is to get an LLM at a different school than then one attended for a JD? I assume that would get you connections in a new area.
On the plus side, there's fantastic barbeque.
Also everything's up to date in Kansas City.
Seriously, how did no one say that yet?
About as high as a skyscraper ought to grow.
Usually, the largest draw for the Kansas, though, is how nice the people are (or if you're a news-anchor how understandable the english is. Seriously, it's the accent national news-anchors are supposed to have).
I don't know much about LLM programs, as I generally assume they are exclusively for tax nerds. I do not know if my opinion is Representative of the world at large. I wouldn't expect that they are that hard to get into, as the JD is pretty selective already, so it is hard to imagine super-competitive LLM programs, but I am sure some exist.
The "trick" will be to 1) be active in all of the international stuff the school has (spring break overseas, president of International Law Society, etc) and 2) getting a clerkship at one of the biggest firms. These days, the demand for new associates/clerks is low, so only the best of the best even have a shot at the high end clerkships. Certainly no offense meant by this - I wasn't number 1 in my class - but if she isn't the very, very top of her class, she will have trouble getting a top firm clerkship, and will not get any experience in law outside of the KC area, and will not have anything to build on to meet the eventual goal of going to Asia for work.
The alternative may be the legal department of one of the Fortune 500 firms in town. Even if she is checking comma placement in grain contracts with one of the -Stans, its a start.
I love the Midwest and my Jesuit education, but it is really hard to become an international lawyer of mystery in a town where the international airport is know best for more plane-v-bird incidents than anywhere else.
LadyM knows what's up.
on topic: I've liked KC the few times I've been there (a festival, friend's wedding, and a couple sports games) but navigating there can be a real bitch. It's very hilly so streets don't stay straight, sometimes they split suddenly with no indication as to which leg of the split is the street you were on and which is the new one. There's ton of tiny sub towns all over and when you enter one the streets often change names.
People will believe really weird stuff about the middle of the country.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The legal market right now for freshly minted attorneys is pretty much the worst. I graduated almost 2 years ago and if I hadn't started my own firm, I'd still be unemployed or doing doc review (pretty much the most boring job on the planet) just like about 80% of my friends from law school. Law schools these day promise the moon and never deliver, especially when it comes to their connections with other countries or big firms or etc unless they are the top 10 or so schools in the country where the debt is actually worth it.
I may seem bitter, about my experience in law school, and maybe I am a bit. I still love practicing law, it's just that law school these days is often used as a delay for the real world by people that will never hack it in the real world practice of law. And the worst part is most take on near 200k in debt to get an education they can't get a job with, or even worse a job that they hate. Don't let your girlfriend buy into the marketing department's employment statistics either. The schools even count the guy slinging french fries at McDonalds or sweaters at JC Penny as employed within x months of graduation.
/bitter off
//still love practicing law
///but I'm a total IP law nerd so YMMV
@Simpsonia: She is aware of how bad the legal market is, but is what she really wants to do in life, so I support that. She has a couple things going for her, mainly that she already has connections to a non profit law group with an office in Beijing, and a pretty much guaranteed acceptance into an asian related LLm at the UW when she finishes her JD. It's a crappy market, but we are as informed as possible
Cool that you're moving to KC, I really hope you get to like it. If I lived closer I'd recommended you some martial arts, but I'm clear the crap out here in Wichita.
http://www.boulevard.com/?bypass=1
but they're listening to every word I say
also the food A++