Libya: Lacing up our Boots
Speaker
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Regretfully, it is time to learn geography the American way, as it seems hostilities are somewhat imminent. Here's a thread to discuss what happens. No better way to kick off a thread like this than by familiarizing ourselves with the country we just committed our military to risk their lives in.
Libya
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya
CIA factbook: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ly.html
Libya! For centuries a collection of three loosely supervised Ottoman provinces, Tripolitania (based on Tripoli in the west), Cyrenaica (based on Benghazi in the east) and Fezzan (based on Marzuk in the southwest interior).
The Italians scooped up these provinces in 1911 as the Ottoman Empire collapsed and formed them into a single unit in 1934. Between world wars resistance to the Italian occupation was led by Idris al-Mahdi as-Senussi, the emir of Cyrenaica, who subsequently became king when Libya became the first African country to emerge from European colonial control in 1951. Britain was heavily invested in Libya (it had run the country between the end of WWII and its independence) and so was America (Libya hosted Wheelus Air Force Base, a major base in North Africa). Oil was discovered in 1959.
In 1969 a military coup affiliated with Arab Nationalism overthrew the king and brought colonel Gaddafi to power. The British and Americans were no longer welcome and left. Gaddafi propounded his own ideological blend of socialism and Islam and created a police state dictatorship.
U.N. Security Counsel Resolution Authorizing Intervention
President Obama's speech, March 28
Major Cities
Tripoli – Capitol city of Libya
Benghazi – Capitol of the Rebellion
Misurata – Business Capitol
Al Zawiyah – Suburb of Tripoli
Sabha – Gateway to the Interior / Airbase
Ajdabiya- Coastal Town
Al Khums – Main Naval Shipyard
Al Bayda – The White City
Libya
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya
CIA factbook: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ly.html
Libya! For centuries a collection of three loosely supervised Ottoman provinces, Tripolitania (based on Tripoli in the west), Cyrenaica (based on Benghazi in the east) and Fezzan (based on Marzuk in the southwest interior).
The Italians scooped up these provinces in 1911 as the Ottoman Empire collapsed and formed them into a single unit in 1934. Between world wars resistance to the Italian occupation was led by Idris al-Mahdi as-Senussi, the emir of Cyrenaica, who subsequently became king when Libya became the first African country to emerge from European colonial control in 1951. Britain was heavily invested in Libya (it had run the country between the end of WWII and its independence) and so was America (Libya hosted Wheelus Air Force Base, a major base in North Africa). Oil was discovered in 1959.
In 1969 a military coup affiliated with Arab Nationalism overthrew the king and brought colonel Gaddafi to power. The British and Americans were no longer welcome and left. Gaddafi propounded his own ideological blend of socialism and Islam and created a police state dictatorship.
U.N. Security Counsel Resolution Authorizing Intervention
President Obama's speech, March 28
Major Cities
Tripoli – Capitol city of Libya
Benghazi – Capitol of the Rebellion
Misurata – Business Capitol
Al Zawiyah – Suburb of Tripoli
Sabha – Gateway to the Interior / Airbase
Ajdabiya- Coastal Town
Al Khums – Main Naval Shipyard
Al Bayda – The White City
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'Cause I thought we were in the Middle-East for oil, yet here we are, $3-something a gallon.
Also I thought we were just planning cruise-missile strikes, leaving our mans in our base.
edit: Oh shit, a plane has been shot down in Libiya. Don't know who did it or who it belongs to, it looked like a Russian Mig-something-or-other.
Yeah, that's all I got. No wait there's more.
"I GUESS OBAMA REALLY IS THE THIRD BUSH TERM SINCE HE IS PUTTING US INTO A THIRD WAR LOLOLOL"
Wait, This is the third country we will be invading, Obama is the third Bush term, Tripoli has Tri as a prefix...it's the third month of the year...
OH SHIT DATA QUICK VENT THE ATMOSPHERE IN THE SHUTTLE BAY!
I am not up to snuff on the situation actually but I was wondering if all those freedom-loving protesters in Egypt were going to help free their neighbors in peril?
Well I guess we get the dubious honor of officially starting the no-fly-zone enforcement.
The alternative here is sit back and let Gaddafi's forces rape and murder their way through Bhengazi and Tobruk.
Coz the guy has shown such concern for us telling him sternly to stop doing that.
Statistically, it will.
It might even open up a rationale for Saudi Arabia. Two birds with one stone!
Yemen is looking like it could go either way. The No Fly Zone is probably going to embolden protesters in surrounding countries.
Any info on how the Arab League will be involved? They were pushing for the no-fly zone, they should at least pitch in free gas and some $$$.
WE'RE IN!
I'm in.
Is there anything we can't do?
Wait, we're not doing anything? Clearly that's because Obama is a horrible President. [/FOX]
You know, just for once it might be nice just to help pay for a war and offer logistical support instead of trying to alpha-dog the whole thing.
We'd be like a good friend from college. "Sure, guys, there's plenty of room at my place. I've got pull-out couches and sleeping bags, and there's soda in the fridge, so help yourself. Just keep the place tidy, I've got to go to work."
Couches being European bases, soda being munitions, and work being trying to dig our way out of the worst economic climate since the 1930s.
On the other hand, I've been burned by supporting Iraq (not for the stop terrorism / 9/11 argument), so I don't have a great track record.
That being said, Gaddafi is a vengeful sod and once he is done regaining control of Libya I certainly expect him to start causing trouble like he used to do - funding terror groups where possible and the like. He, unlike Saddam, has form for supporting international terrorism and destabilisation
But as a precaution, I'm going to be writing to the Foreign Affairs Ministry/MP back home to demand they make plans to accept Libyan refugees if necessary. So should you all. If Gaddafi wins this, he will not be a merciful victor
I really can't understand why the CIA didn't shoot Gaddafi back in the 80's.
Seriously, being dismissive of this action is to me basically saying 'fuck the Libyans, let them die'. It's completely justified, hopefully they hurry the hell up and do something before it's way too late.
Anyway:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418
And regarding the shot down jet:
Edit:
I wonder if we can really trust reports from either side in this conflict. We certainly can't trust anything said by Gaddafi, 'cos he's a power-mad sociopath, but is it possible that the rebels may use hyperbole to gain the sympathy of the West?
Please note that I am not saying that the rebels are lying or that Gaddafi isn't bombing the shit out of his own civilians. I'm just saying that neither side has an interest in telling the whole truth here.
The thing is, whatever the truth, we won't be able to establish it till we have NATO aircraft patrolling Libyan skies so we can keep an eye on developments on the ground.
On the other hand, no one cares about the even more fucked up African nations, but of course they don't produce oil....
Descendant: Fair point but that's all we've got to go on at the moment. They're obviously a lot more reliable than Gaddafi though, seeing as the last I heard, they were spouting crap about how the rebels are Al Queda.
You'll get no argument from me.
As for Gaddafi, he's really grasping at straws here. I mean, what the fuck? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12794591
Oh, and also? Gaddafi's a moron. I mean, seriously, dude? We're already in Iraq, we can damn near drive to Libya from there, not to mention, hey, that's a lot of coastline you have there, we're just going to park a fleet off your coast there and just every few hours rip a new asshole into the surface of your country, cuz that's how we roll.
This has USN/USMC written allllll over it.
Way to miss the point entirely there, buckshot.
The idea is to NOT GIVE ANOTHER ARAB COUNTRY MORE FUCKING REASONS TO HATE YOU.
The US should stay completely out of this one. At this point you're like the guy who shows up at the party already shitfaced and ends up ruining it for everybody by puking on the host's cat and pissing on the couch. And is then surprised when nobody else laughs.
What needs to be done here is to even the playing field so that the rebels can take out Gaddafi themselves. Many of them have said that they do not want international intervention, so we should only be doing the absolute minimum to keep them from being turned into a red spot in the northern Sahara.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that.
But Ghaddafi's been virtually immune to interventions from the world for the last 20 years despite all the shit he's pulled. I don't think he was expecting anyone to care this time either.
Also, USS Florida was hanging around Naples the last I heard. That's about an entire surface group's worth of cruise missiles. Someone is getting prepared...
DON'T WORRY WE GOT YOUR BACK! FOR QUEEN AND COUNTRY!*
*This kind of attitude will all change very quickly if we have to get Prince Charles on our coinage.
Proof Obama's a mooslim.
Can we not do this please? No, seriously. Lets not do this.
This isn't Iraq where we're going in for WMDs ohwaittherearen'tany(haha we totes knew that, suckers)! Um he was a bad guy who did bad things awhile ago I guess?
Yeah, that's the statement I was referring to. Kinda feel sorry for the guy that had to read that, if, you know, he wasn't working for a fucking psychopath.
*Groan* No. You are a silly goose.
It was actually more of a side cynicism and not a real argument. This intervention is obviously needed and I'm surprised it took roughly two weeks for anything to happen. But before then then rebels seemed to be doing well I guess so there was no need.
I'm pretty sure that they decided to intervene weeks ago (you don't just sit up and decide "Hey lets do military action" and then have planes over a country the next day), but were hoping for a miracle that would have the rebels do it themselves. When it became obvious that the rebels were going to lose they commited.
This seems at this point to be a mostly France and Britain thing, which is great, since those are the countries that are right there and have the bases at hand. Italy has approved use of their airfields, which is great. Spain has also approved use of their airfields, which is, um, good I guess (seriously Spain, France is the warleader here, look at a map).
the stars are aligning in such a way that some crackpot dictator has pissed off the world community and isn't in bed with any of the UNSC and so we get to go and fuck that asshole's shit up
At least until, you know, he gets removed from power and they wind up electing into power someone who winds up being much worse than Gaddafi ever was.
Steam
so we'll be going to war with Libya as well, sending about 100 guys
denmark has already sent down six planes with similar amounts of personnel
also nice to note: unlike last time we hitched onto a "bomb the crap out of bastards" war, the prime minister said that yes we'll be at war
well we'll cross that bridge when we come to it
it could go either way so fingers crossed they get a less evil guy
Spoilered for kind of big.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12794589