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Losing faith in people, making life difficult
Magus`
The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered User regular
The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered User regular
Ever since my break-up about a month ago, it feels like everyone I know (outside, I guess, family) has just up and left me in the cold. A lot of people who I thought were good friends are nowhere to be seen and it seems pretty obvious they're avoiding me.
Now, that doesn't bother me as I can just make new friends. BUT, this is not going well either. I have trouble making guy friends because (in my own words) I'm "not nerdy enough to enjoy D+D and stuff like that, but nerdy enough that I don't like sports or 'manly' things like drinking or going to bars".
I've had trouble with girls as they all seem to assume that just talking to them seems to make them think I want to get into their pants. There was this one girl who I had in class last semester and the conversation went like this -
Me: Hey, how was your vacation?
Her: Oh, really good. Yours? (At this point she actually seems to care about it, so, whoo.)
Me: Oh.. not too bad. Had some troubles, but things are looking better.
Her: That's good.
Me: It's awfully cold now, huh? (It was.)
Her: I'm not looking for a relationship.
*Awkward pause*
Me: .. 'kay..
We continued talking but that out of the blue comment kind of killed any interest I had in her (as a friend, I mean). Of course, not a week later she was dating someone else so I'm not even sure why she said it in the first place.
The point is, I'm really sick of people avoiding me without telling me or lying to my face. I'm not a dumb person. I'm not a mean person. I'm not a clingy person. I'm not a desperate person.
All I am is someone who wants at least some people to treat me with the respect I'm trying to show them. I'm going through some really hard times right now and I'm doing my best to keep it 'in house' but with all my efforts failing like this, it's a real kick in the ol' family jewels.
I know the idea is to depend on yourself and not anyone else, and I'm trying to do that.. but like, I feel really broken ATM and even one person on my side would really boost my morale.
tl;dr - What am I doing that makes it so hard for me to make friends with.. anyone?
Now, that doesn't bother me as I can just make new friends. BUT, this is not going well either. I have trouble making guy friends because (in my own words) I'm "not nerdy enough to enjoy D+D and stuff like that, but nerdy enough that I don't like sports or 'manly' things like drinking or going to bars".
I've had trouble with girls as they all seem to assume that just talking to them seems to make them think I want to get into their pants. There was this one girl who I had in class last semester and the conversation went like this -
Me: Hey, how was your vacation?
Her: Oh, really good. Yours? (At this point she actually seems to care about it, so, whoo.)
Me: Oh.. not too bad. Had some troubles, but things are looking better.
Her: That's good.
Me: It's awfully cold now, huh? (It was.)
Her: I'm not looking for a relationship.
*Awkward pause*
Me: .. 'kay..
We continued talking but that out of the blue comment kind of killed any interest I had in her (as a friend, I mean). Of course, not a week later she was dating someone else so I'm not even sure why she said it in the first place.
The point is, I'm really sick of people avoiding me without telling me or lying to my face. I'm not a dumb person. I'm not a mean person. I'm not a clingy person. I'm not a desperate person.
All I am is someone who wants at least some people to treat me with the respect I'm trying to show them. I'm going through some really hard times right now and I'm doing my best to keep it 'in house' but with all my efforts failing like this, it's a real kick in the ol' family jewels.
I know the idea is to depend on yourself and not anyone else, and I'm trying to do that.. but like, I feel really broken ATM and even one person on my side would really boost my morale.
tl;dr - What am I doing that makes it so hard for me to make friends with.. anyone?
Magus` on
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Instead of thinking about what hurts your friend-making endeavours (don't like nerdy things, don't like jocky things, etc), answer this question for me: What do you like?
Make that your basis. Like movies? There's got to be a film society or something near you -- somewhere. Like books? Book club. Chess? Shuffleboard? Aardvaarks?
Seriously speaking, if you concentrate on what you actually like doing and find some sort of social network that incorporates your tastes, you're bound to meet a couple of people who you can build some sort of friendships with. Then you can just sort of... help yourself to their extended social network. Not in a creepy way. I mean that they'll introduce you to their friends, and those friends will introduce you to their friends, and so on.
As for the ladies, just keep trying. It's the only advice I've ever heard which always works.
As Wayne Gretzky once said, "One hundred percent of the shots you don't take, don't go in."
Also, friends are overrated. Most of them are bitches who will mooch, screw you over, and just plain make your life more difficult than it has to be. I reccomend focusing on thing you enjoy solo.
When I'm bored or lonely, I just write a song on the guitar. I sing along with songs or draw. I play WoW also, but that game can cause problems, so I reccomend only playing it with friends.
Oh and dude if you've been laid once you've been laid a million times.
Don't sweat dem hoes.
I'll quote this part as it has a bit of truth (I'll leave the rest to the mods :P )...
The old adage of being able to count your true friends on one hand is pretty accurate. If "friends" are avoiding you, think of that as life pointing out they probably weren't very good friends. Hell, you may not have net your best friend yet.
I've got more friends then I can shake a stick at, but when the chips were down and I was in a bad car wreck, I found out quickly which ones were real friends. In some ways I was kinda surprised by who really stood out and who was nowhere to be found.
Now like the 2nd poster said, go find people who share similar interests. That's a great way to find people that are similar to you. Don't always expect to find great friends that way (you may have a quality friend with whom you share few commonalities) but at least you'll be able to be yourself.
Good luck and don't get down on yourself!
Just my 2 cents...
My view of the world is that I try to be as nice a person as I can. I'm always there for my friends and try to treat people in as honourable a way as I can. Sure, it is inevitable that you are going to be hurt sometimes, but that is something I am willing to take, if the alternative is being as closed to the world and cynical as Apollo seems to be.
I think you have the right perspective. Show people respect, and you will get it back. It is important to remember that you are strong in yourself, but friends are good to have. It is also true that real friends, apart from aquintances, are usually few in numbers. Most of my real friends I have known for years. Maybe you have some old friends you can get in touch with again?
In other words, there are a lot of weirdos out there, but if you let them actually affect your life view and general interest in people as a whole, you'll get absolutely nowhere in life (such as Apollo portrayed himself).
A lot of people are going to lie to you. They're always going to think they're doing it to protect your feelings, but really, they're just trying to protect their own by not having a real conversation with you about their thoughts - negative or otherwise. You just broke up with someone, so of course you're going to be down on humanity for a bit. You'll come out of it though, and it will suddenly be a bit easier to socialize. From that point, you've got to force yourself to a degree, to keep trying. People act in really hateful ways sometimes, but you aren't going to find the good ones by sitting back and waiting for them to come to you.
As for you, Apollo - if I was correct in my interpretation, that was still a really really offensive way to make a point. Seriously.
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How do you relate to others? You mentioned that you told a girl you just met that "things used to be bad". Do you generally share such news? Most people don't want to hear depressing or generally off putting news in casual conversation, and may avoid you for this reason.
Also, I hate to bring this up, but do you take care of yourself physically and hygienically? I used to know a really nice guy who seriously smelled like he never showered. Everyone avoided him, and he would get offended if someone tried to bring this up to help him.
I'm quite clean, thank you. I relate to others.. well, I guess? I'm polite I show interest in them without being overbearing and I usually let them lead the conversation unless they want me to.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Me: "Your arrogant candor is refreshing. Can I ask you out, anyway?"
Anyway, if we accept as truth everything you're saying, then it basically points to you being a girly-man. I don't mean that in a bad way,I don't mean you're a pussy or whatever. I'm a girly-man, too. Non-girly-men are usually either nerds or good-ol-boys, and they either live in terror of women or they totally mack on them like assholes and don't care. But you're none of that. So, for you, finding satisfying male and female relationships is just tougher. That's just how it is.
I sense that it is a stressor for you right now, which is also part of the problem. Let go of the worry, and just keep at it.
What are your hobbies?
I'm big into technology and video games. Anything that I can do with my hands is also something I enjoy.
I think the problem is I'm too polite. Half the time I have someone saying something rude to me, I wanna call them on it but I'm somehow worried it'll spread around and make me even less able to make friends.
Oh dear.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Also don't just say to yourself that other people don't affect your happiness believe it. Enjoy yourself, once you do that you'll find people will want to be around you.
If you have a large wang as well that can help you with ladies, so advertise "Hey everyone my wang is massive". Ok that last one might not help as much outside of pornland.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
pleasepaypreacher.net
Just from this, I would say you're doing something with your body language. There's nothing else in here that would cause this kind of non sequitur.
Conversationally though, I can see where the break occured and why. If you think of conversation as ping-pong, where a single topic is a rally between players, the topic changes every time someone loses (or chooses to lose) the ball.
In this case, you started on 'vacation', she accepted, and rallyed back, but then you went to something else, Personal Troubles. She did not want to talk about Personal Troubles, so she dropped the ball ("That's good." End point.). You started another about the weather (a plea for a second rally without a genuine offering), and she not only denied you, but ensured that the game would be over.
The trick here would have been to stay on topic, ie, Her Vacation. The rally is just there as a placeholder for your involvement, it's coming back to you as a token, not as actual interest in your life. So on the return to you, the rally to continue should have been Noncommital Sound, Discovery Question. Such as, "Balls, should have stayed home. Where did you go?" or "Alright. Did you see anything interesting?" or "Meh. pause. You look great though, did you go somewhere sunny?". This ensures that the person is asked to talk about themselves, and that you can continue to show interest.
Think of interest as a commodity, to be traded and invested in by people. Buying stock in someone (showing interest) is like investing in them. Asking for someone to show interest in you is like asking them to invest in you. What you can get away with depends on the current market value.
In a conversational rally, each point of interest is like a share. If your shares are not valued by the people you talk to, then you may have to listen to several points of interest before they will accept one of yours. If you try and trade at a price above market value (say, one to one) they will refuse to invest in you, as to them it seems to be like working towards a net loss.
The reason the non-sequitur occured is because you started on "Let's talk about You" and then immediately switched up to "My observations about the World" twice in a row, which is the conversational rythm equivilant of saying "Hey, would you like five bucks? Awesome! Loan me ten and I'll hook you up." To which the answer was and will likely always be Please Fuck Off. There's a lot of PFO's to give out there, and she, like any normal person, just picked the most promenent one off the top of her head. Why it was that particular one, I couldn't tell you, hence the comment about body language.
There was only one save after "That's good.", and that was to bring it back around to Her Vacation. Or something else about her. Anything inquring about her will do. You could even lame-duck something over the net like, 'Gosh it's cold out...did you go somewhere warm for vacation?'.
I know sometimes the Point of Interest model gets confusing, especially between Facts and Opinions. After all, you asked her what she thought about the weather, doesn't that count as a Point of Interest about her?
No. No it does not. Opinions take energy to form, and then they have to be phrased by the speaker in line to the person they are serving to. Asking for an opinion about anything is actually asking/forcing them to consider a Point of Interest about you. Going into conversational debt, as it were. Some people will answer in the hopes they can reveal facts (Points of Interest) about themselves in the process, others will cut thier losses and run. So when rallying, stick to asking about factual, tangible, information about someone that doesn't need to be considered. (that is to say evaluated, rememberance is fine)
Once you've built up a good hearty surplus, then ask for an opinion, or maybe attempt to share one of your own Points of Interest (i.e. something about yourself and you view or position in life). If you are trying to make friends, invest heavily in other people and ask for more information. Remember everything you can, write it down if you have to. Points of Interest are conversational money, so build a goddamn bank if you have too much to carry in your 'wallet'.
And thats really all there is to making new friends: allowing people to share more of thier points with you, than you do with them. It's why friendly people are the way they are, working hard to find out more about new people. Caring about what other people have to share about themselves.
I can tell you have a lot to share about yourself, and that you need someone to talk to. Paying attention isn't always easy, but it takes money to make money. Keep your head up, be a good listener, and you'll find someone with just as much to share as you have. Figure out how to take turns effectively at that, and a good solid friendship is just a hairsbreadth away. Promise.
I guess it could be body language, but like.. I was sitting at the time, I made no effort to move closer or appear like I wanted to. I didn't use too many hand gestures and I thought I was polite and respectful.
I know it can't be totally me as like I said, I get along GREAT with older people. I think it might be just as far as my ability to talk to people my own age.
Keep in mind, I mean to improve. I know I'm not perfect and can easily 'fix' some stuff, but I know I'm not just naturally offensive or annoying.. or something. Yeah.
On a side note, (pretty sure I mentioned this before, but eh, lazy) I would not have minded had she gone "You're not my type" or "I'm not interested in you". I wouldn't have been hurt or some shit. I just don't like people lying to my face when I can OBVIOUSLY tell they're doing it.
I'm going into Therapy starting tommorow so maybe I can use that to get out all my 'needing to talk' and maybe be able to listen better.
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I'd suggest not doing that.
Socialising is good though. Makes you happier. Just enjoying the moment and everything.
Alcohol is fine in moderation, though I think you meant just getting drunk to drown one's sorrows, which is indeed retarded. A little bit of drink can help you get over any social anxiety though. My friends actually love talking to me when I'm drunk (and fortunately, my typing never seems to suffer. Strange).
Don't get hammered of course, just a little bit to help you loosen up if need be.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I've never had this problem.
I know this advice is not the PA woo beer is awesome stuff that a lot of posters say but I just can't say that drinking to be more socially apt is a smart move for anyone.
pleasepaypreacher.net
When you say you get along with older people do you mean in a social environment or do you mean in a school/work environment?
You might not think your naturally offensive or annoying, but you might be. It's hard to look at yourself as others do. For example I don't think I naturally look angry or depressed, but other see me that way and it takes a concentrated effort on my part to look and act friendly and approachable.
I went through a similar situation as you when I was younger, I felt like the most people in the world were letting me down in some way or another. a lot of this is self-imposed and will likely pass. sometimes we go blind to the truth.
She was probably overly suspicious/bitchy/upfront and yeah, that isn't really worth your time.
It'll take some time to find people that 'fit' with you, but work to improve yourself and don't rush it. At the end of the day, if you have 1-3 people you are close to and can trust, it's worth it more than a few dozen you can't even take at face value.
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The majority of human communication is through body language. Maybe she misread you, but you should try and recall your body language and the vibes you gave out when you said that because I know I've miscommunicated on that end while thinking all I had conveyed were my words.
Maybe she's just a gigantic cunt, but I couldn't imagine most girls saying that unless they picked up on something they were sure on.
Like, if you're working with someone just talk to them about work. Then slowly but gradually move on to other subjects. The first time you meet someone you should avoid talking about subjects that you really aren't obviously connected by (Hey strange man, do you like candy? I like candy!).
I wish I could help but I haven't found any answers myself yet.
People seem to enjoy my company, I'm polite (some would consider too polite), I make them laugh and I'm a good listener. Yet for some reason, everybody seems to quietly avoid being 'alone' with me. In a group it's fine, I get invited to things etc. But nobody ever seems happy to hang out, just the two of us.
I think it must be something wrong with my body language. I'm quite shy but very friendly if people talk to me, but their must be something about the way I hold myself that turns people away from making that first contact.
In terms of making friends, I usually keep a small group of devoted friends and most everyone else becomes an acquaintance. Like you I don't really hang out with the really nerdy kids or the jocks (although I find the nerdy kids way more interesting) and kind of float in that middle space. If I had joined a frat (God Forbid) I would probably have a lot more pseudo friends, male and female, but I hate fraternities/sororities and eschew most of what they stand for. I don't really have any problems with a small friend base though, and I try to meet people I find interesting. I just don't find many people that interesting.
In your case I would advise finding some kind of group thing that you are interested in and meet some new people. I am going to a ballroom dancing club later this week to hopefully meet some cool female folk. Just put yourself out there and see who interests you.
Also, smile. Smiling denotes confidence, and people always react positively to smiles.
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Two bans for the same person, in the same thread, days apart.
I just don't know what to say, other than I promise that there won't be three.
The secret to socialising is to know someone who knows people, then tag along to parties. Make sure all the pretty sociable girls remember you, and you'll be invited next time too.