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Creative, Mid-20s Guy Stuck in the Corporate World
TheGreatZamino
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I've been lurking the forums for a while and I really appreciate how helpful you guys are with folks that have problems. I've been struggling with this for a while and I'd really appreciate any and all input.
I moved to NYC from the South in '06 after college graduation and struggled trying to find creative work in film production, editorial, and design (I cartooned in college and wrote screenplays and stories in addition). In order to support myself, I took a job in finance and promptly lost all of my free time. I surfaced from that a year later and did editorial and production internships at a comic book and web video company before working as a technical writer for an insurance company. I lost that job in the second quarter of 2008 after the market crashed and I scrambled to find another job. I managed to get recruited as an editorial coordinator for a textbook company.
Fast forward 2.5 years ahead and I am still in the same position doing the same administrative work on top of slightly more engaging editorial duties. In my spare time I speak at my Toastmasters chapter and perform comedy and improv around New York, but it just doesn't feel like enough anymore. I really want to move on and do something for work that caters to my strong suits. I was depressed about being overweight for a while and felt like a big greasy loser whenever I sat in front of the computer and researched the stories of people that managed to succeed at their passions immediately after college.
Thankfully, I started working out really hard after New Years' Day and I lost 20 lbs. I've still got 20 more to go, but it makes me feel better. I also am reading up on art tutorials and I'm determined to practice and start my own webcomic once I feel my workflow is up to snuff. Finally, I'm pitching four of my screenplays to independent producer friends of mine. They helped me out by casting me in a music video and an upcoming short film and I'm really stoked about it.
So, what's the issue? Well, I can't advance in this company without taking a sales position in the middle of a rural or suburban college town far away from the city. Besides not liking the idea of joining the Sales ranks, I don't want to leave the city. Instead, I've decided to look in my company and around the city for new work. Given my previous experience, can anyone suggest work that might be better?
Some facts: I considered going for Copywriting positions, but I don't have a portfolio. I would love to do Game Design or 2D/3D art, but I don't have a portfolio. Most fiction and magazine publishers I know are not hiring and I would have to take a steep paycut to write professionally for a blog. Does anybody have any ideas? I'm fresh out and I'm 27 and aging by the minute to boot.
I moved to NYC from the South in '06 after college graduation and struggled trying to find creative work in film production, editorial, and design (I cartooned in college and wrote screenplays and stories in addition). In order to support myself, I took a job in finance and promptly lost all of my free time. I surfaced from that a year later and did editorial and production internships at a comic book and web video company before working as a technical writer for an insurance company. I lost that job in the second quarter of 2008 after the market crashed and I scrambled to find another job. I managed to get recruited as an editorial coordinator for a textbook company.
Fast forward 2.5 years ahead and I am still in the same position doing the same administrative work on top of slightly more engaging editorial duties. In my spare time I speak at my Toastmasters chapter and perform comedy and improv around New York, but it just doesn't feel like enough anymore. I really want to move on and do something for work that caters to my strong suits. I was depressed about being overweight for a while and felt like a big greasy loser whenever I sat in front of the computer and researched the stories of people that managed to succeed at their passions immediately after college.
Thankfully, I started working out really hard after New Years' Day and I lost 20 lbs. I've still got 20 more to go, but it makes me feel better. I also am reading up on art tutorials and I'm determined to practice and start my own webcomic once I feel my workflow is up to snuff. Finally, I'm pitching four of my screenplays to independent producer friends of mine. They helped me out by casting me in a music video and an upcoming short film and I'm really stoked about it.
So, what's the issue? Well, I can't advance in this company without taking a sales position in the middle of a rural or suburban college town far away from the city. Besides not liking the idea of joining the Sales ranks, I don't want to leave the city. Instead, I've decided to look in my company and around the city for new work. Given my previous experience, can anyone suggest work that might be better?
Some facts: I considered going for Copywriting positions, but I don't have a portfolio. I would love to do Game Design or 2D/3D art, but I don't have a portfolio. Most fiction and magazine publishers I know are not hiring and I would have to take a steep paycut to write professionally for a blog. Does anybody have any ideas? I'm fresh out and I'm 27 and aging by the minute to boot.
TheGreatZamino on
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One reason to build savings is so that if you do find a job you think you'd like more but pays less, you can live at a comparable level for quite awhile until you get a promotion/more experience/find something better also in that field.
You gotta think long term but set yourself appreciable goals. Break down how you can realistically achieve the portfolio in whatever time frame you are comfortable and start working.
edit: I am pretty similar to you, actually. I'm 27 and have been at my job that's okay but a dead end for 2.5 years. I'm a pretty good writer but not pursuing it at the moment. What I've decided is I'd give myself a year to ease out of this job, build up a cushion of savings/pay off my debts and job search in a city I want to move to and focus on writing. It's certainly possible, you just gotta work on one step at a time.
Edit: That said, I totally understand the need for an incremental plan. I learned how much that helped during my weight loss. I'm also taking steps to reduce my rent so that I take more home from work.
Sounds like you're going to have to just keep working until you find a comparable paying job in a field you like.
I felt like I could very easily let this (acceptable if boring) life keep happening to me or I could plan a year ahead and change it. There are plenty of days where I want to take the not insignificant amount I've stashed and be driving to Austin by sundown, but it's just not how good things end up happening.
That's how you'd build a portfolio, at least, and get your ear a little closer to what's going on. Remember, creative work doesn't happen in a vacuum, at least for most people. Get yourself out there; lots of people work middling day jobs to support a more interesting hobby/endeavor during the evening/weekends.
You could also freelance doing whatever you want to do in your spare time. Post an ad on craigslist describing what kind of services you can or are willing to provide, and go from there. It wont be steady work, but it could be a good way to build a portfolio naturally as well as scratching that creative itch.
The only thing you really, really need to keep in mind is most likely, your "creative" job is going to be completely uncreative. I worked in graphic design for 5 years and i think i actually created something under 30 times, out of probably close to 100,000 jobs that passed over my desk. Usually clients know what they want, or at least what they dont want, and you'll be working from their specs and under their corporate style guidelines and being told what to do. This isnt gonna be the same if you take a writing gig, but just know if youre doing artwork or design at all, you probably will be left unsatisfied anyway. I mean, this changes eventually but the guys who actually get to be creative and make the decisions every single day? Theres a handful of them in the entire country, and theyve all got 30 or 40 years in. As cliche as it sounds, watch mad men, its got a pretty good representation of creative. Don is the "creative guy", everyone else does what he tells them.
My best advice? Just get a job that doesnt make you want to kill yourself every day and pays reasonably well. Keep your creative stuff to hobbies or freelancing on the side so you can scratch that creative itch but still pay the bills. You'll end up way more satisfied than if you slog through 20 years of mindnumbing, bullshit work just to end up burnt out when you finally get where youre going...
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Drop the stuff that isn't your real passion. How many years have you been performing? Have you done any festivals? Has your name been advertised in clubs or is it just open mic stuff?
I'm performing with my troupe at Yale this weekend though and I can't wait. I wish I was musically gifted, but there's no way that'll ever happen. :?
Yeah, you're probably right. My issue is that people keep telling me that I'm talented. They say I'm"a great speaker!" at Toastmasters. My friends like my character drawings! And I've won awards for writing from my college and from journalism associations based in the South. I just wish that if everybody thought that, that I could eke a living out of it full-time. I don't want fame or fortune or a Money Hat, I just want to pay rent and put a little bit away every month for a nice vacation every once in a while.
Pie in the sky dreams aren't probably going to cut it. You can either spend the next years of your life hoping for that big break or you can bust your ass on your portfolio now. If you have all these awards, I don't understand why you don't have a portfolio.
You think you're explaining stuff to us, but there's a fine line between an explanation and an excuse. Reread what you're posting with that in mind and I think you'll see what you need to work on.
edit: A lot of what I'm telling you are things I need to be telling myself. So... huzzah.
Some creative fields can overlap into the same job, but all of them can't. What is your training in, what are you naturally good at, what industry do you want to be in, etc. I've progressed my career a lot with the skills I've developed improvising, but I also worked my ass off and did shows all around the country and worked with teams from all over. I took it one step further and you need to figure out what you want to take forward, and fucking do it. You might be doing too much at once without focusing on anything.
Yeah, I won't be making excuses anymore. This year has been a kind of deadline for me to get my butt in gear. First thing was the weight, next thing is the money, and the third thing is the portfolio/job.
I'm best at writing. Screenwriting and non-fiction creative and analytical writing. Those are my key areas right now. I felt like a webcomic would dust off the cobwebs and force me to really work on both my storytelling and my art, but you're right in that that would probably over-extend me.
I live in Arizona, so it's obviously much different to start out with, but my friends and I set up a little art show for our stuff a week ago. Not many people showed up, but we now know how to better promote ourselves.
Get your friends together and start an online 'zine, submit to local 'zines, set up small comedy shows with friends, etc.
Once you get started on a roll things might get easier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4whvvjZmDs
They recently did a commercial for Matel.
Why aren't you producing stuff?
Have you submitted any articles to publications?
Have you written any plays? NYC doesn't exactly have a lack of performance spaces.
Have you looked into joining any professional troupes? Maybe the Neo-Futurists?
You could also contact the Hall of Science with some pitches for science related shows for them to produce (and maybe pay you for)
Do theatres in NYC do spec readings (actors reading new unproduced scripts for current running shows)?
Also, the corporate world is not a death sentence, but it is regular income. Good luck getting that in the arts!
edit: What I'm getting at is that in the creative industry there is no excuse for not working. Maybe you don't know what to do with what you've created, but there are no real excuses.
Lots of people will tell you that you have talent. Lots of people(already happened here) will tell you that things will suck and it's not likely you'll find success. Don't pay too much attention to any of this.
Just focus on what you are really into and do a lot of it. It seems you're not too familiar with your own creative self yet. You probably have some exploring to do in this regard. Try and meet other creative people, learn how they live and act. Get some insight into others' creativity and how they implement it in the world really.
You sort of have to ignore reality in a healthy way, to some extent. You don't want to be too sure of yourself, but you don't want to get too cynical and think too much about the harsh realities of creative career seeking.
As was discussed, classes can be beneficial. At the very least it gives you a shortcut to meeting others who have been involved in various creative fields.
I don't know, I think it's less important to seek advice, than to just learn, experience and work hard on creating what you like.
Theres no question you could get a job in a creative field and pay your bills and live well. I did, and i had absolutely no qualifications on paper. I busted my ass and got where I felt like I wanted to be. It just seems like your romanticizing a creative position, and dont get me wrong, youre not the only one. At my last job, there were a lot of young kids who would come in and say all the time "This job isnt creative at all! This company sucks, there are way better companies out there!". And when they left? They found out that no, that really is what creative is like unless youre the boss or the client.
Your technical writing job was a creative position. Did you enjoy it? Its more than likely going to be representative of any creative position you'll find at a company. Theres always the boutique agencies and boutique animation companies and boutique writing companies but its really, really hard to get into a small boutique agency unless you know someone or you start one yourself. Most boutiques are really unique and produce mindblowing work because everyone knows each other really well and has the same ideas when it comes to what "works" for their image. Once they start outside hiring, the creative aspect that defines them really disappears and it turns into just another creative agency. And thats not to say you wont get into one of those agencies, its just that you wont get into one of those agencies right now. You'll have to work your way to it. And thats most likely going to involve a bunch of years doing mindnumbing work unless you get extremely lucky and stumble into the right contact at exactly the right time.
Im not saying dont go for it, or that youre not talented or anything like that. Just dont romanticize a "creative" job, otherwise youre setting yourself up for disappointment. One of the best pieces of advice i received early in my career from one of the old timers was "Work to live, dont live to work", and in my opinion its doubly poignant when youre talking about jobs of this type.
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I've actually been through the full sketch program at UCB in addition to the improv program. I've taken a bunch of other screenwriting courses through other theatres as well. Getting my friends to produce sketches is kind of like herding cats, but I do try. I also have a director friend in LA that I pitch to and get feedback from. That said, you're completely right about there being no want for performance spaces in NYC. I definitely need to see the big picture there.
I think that's really a great attitude to take now that you point it out. I definitely feel like I'm getting jaded every now and then, but I usually manage to rein that in every time I do a really great set or speech or I write something that makes me smile. A few folks here are saying that I'm romanticizing the work and that's a really good point. I think I romanticize creative work because it always seemed to me that that was what I was best at growing up, but I ended up getting a lot of analytical training and administrative work on top of that. When an editor visits you on career day in high school, he never tells about all the paperwork he had to slog through to make editor. :P
You might want to watch this. I'm a concept artist in the game industry and make a comfortable living with it. Its certainly possible (albeit with hard hard work) to get there (meaning creative work, not just the game industry), and anyone saying its not has no idea. This video is only slight exaggeration as to what its like. That said, I don't think I would be happy doing anything other than art and I can understand the desire - its what I wanted all my life. I just want to warn you that creative work involves as much, or perhaps more bullshit than 'boring jobs' because its so connected to what you want to do. It gets personal. The highs are higher, but the lows are lower too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGar7KC6Wiw