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Don't trust my wife
suicidexcuse
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I'm having some trouble with the wife. Last week I found out she had called someone from the Philippines (her home country) and she lied about it to my face twice. I confronted her about the lies and she made up a bunch of other lies that I called her on. "I was embarassed about using my credit card" "I forgot I had called". I forgave her but I still have this gut feeling something is wrong.
A couple things, she is bisexual and has stated to me she misses some stuff when being with a women. The woman she called she had fooled around with the last time she visited the Philippines (before she knew me). I know the Philippines is a long way away but there's phone sex and cyber sex or maybe that other woman will visit, I don't know.
I know she is not telling me the whole truth. Something else is going on. Now I know everyone will say to talk to her about it and I have. She just says I have nothing to worry about but why on earth would she lie to my face so many times about calling this woman. I have supported her talking to old friends from the start of our relationship, even numerous exes. But when I get lied to about one it raises some alarms. As well when I confronted her about the lies it seemed like she wanted to tell me something but decided not to.
So I don't know what to do. I hate just waiting around till something happens. And I'm starting to have urges to check her facebook. She created a new one that only old friends belong to which she closes anytime i enter the room. She also recently got an iphone which I pushed her to get so she's been using yahoo messanger and I was happy for her but ever since thursday I feel like "she's chatting it up with this chick lying to me and I'm taking care of our daughter and stuff, wtf."
Should I just trust she's not doing anything and suck it up. I don't know if I can, I've been holding back lots of emotions lately and yesterday I just started crying in my bed for no reason. I don't want this hanging over my head when I'm going through finals and about to start a new job. I want to trust her but I feel like I can't.
Any advice would be appreciated. O and btw I'm 23 and she's 28, our daughter is 2.
A couple things, she is bisexual and has stated to me she misses some stuff when being with a women. The woman she called she had fooled around with the last time she visited the Philippines (before she knew me). I know the Philippines is a long way away but there's phone sex and cyber sex or maybe that other woman will visit, I don't know.
I know she is not telling me the whole truth. Something else is going on. Now I know everyone will say to talk to her about it and I have. She just says I have nothing to worry about but why on earth would she lie to my face so many times about calling this woman. I have supported her talking to old friends from the start of our relationship, even numerous exes. But when I get lied to about one it raises some alarms. As well when I confronted her about the lies it seemed like she wanted to tell me something but decided not to.
So I don't know what to do. I hate just waiting around till something happens. And I'm starting to have urges to check her facebook. She created a new one that only old friends belong to which she closes anytime i enter the room. She also recently got an iphone which I pushed her to get so she's been using yahoo messanger and I was happy for her but ever since thursday I feel like "she's chatting it up with this chick lying to me and I'm taking care of our daughter and stuff, wtf."
Should I just trust she's not doing anything and suck it up. I don't know if I can, I've been holding back lots of emotions lately and yesterday I just started crying in my bed for no reason. I don't want this hanging over my head when I'm going through finals and about to start a new job. I want to trust her but I feel like I can't.
Any advice would be appreciated. O and btw I'm 23 and she's 28, our daughter is 2.
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Of course she may not feel like she can talk to you. Sit her down, talk to her, ask her what the issue is. Be open minded, tell her you're not there to pass judgement or make her feel bad for what she likes.
Now i dont wanna say shes cheating or anything, but that could well be the case when someone starts to act odd and sneaky. Truly the best of luck to you, and its all a big misunderstanding.
I think the only thing you can do is to make it easy for her to talk to you about anything. Interrogation just tends to breed contempt. And for the love of God don't start spying on her by accessing her facebook account or whatever. That's a great way to ruin a relationship, no matter what you might or might not find.
"I'm really not happy with the fact you feel you have to lie about this to me, and I feel you're being secretive. This has set me on edge and made me suspect that you're cheating on me. If this behavior continues, we may have to talk about if we should even be in this relationship. I don't want that to happen, so please tell me what's going on."
Communication is key. Tell her how you're feeling, seriously, she probably doesn't even know that you're this upset about it. If it's anything minor, she should wake the fuck up and talk to you about it. If it isn't minor, she will continue this behavior and you'll know it's time to end the relationship.
Of course, it she becomes uncharacteristically upset about such jibes, this may indicate something as well. Remember though, if English is her second language, she may be frustrated by your attempts at communication: my wife has lived in the US or Canada for 20+ years now and some concepts are still lost in translation, and require a lot of patience to deal with.
Ya I know this is true. I've lied about say where I went to lunch or if I played xbox. But when I asked her what she did for lunch the day she phoned that woman her answer was basically this: "o I uhh I uhh had a sandwich at 10:00 so I ummm.. ya know wasn't really hungry at lunch so then I uhh.... just went to starbucks and ummm.... walked around safeway. Ya ya thats right" "you just walked around safeway?" "yup that's right."
Then that same day she mentioned this woman she had known I asked her when she spoke to her and she said: " O that was umm through email yesterday ya yesterday o no wait maybe a few days ago. O I can't remember."
Then when finding out she lied I asked "did you phone someone" "o I forgot to tell you" "no you didn't, I know you" "O I was embarassed I used my credit card" "you always use your credit card" "it wasn't a big deal I didn't want to mention it". Then she stares at me for like 5 minutes, it basically looked like she was going to say something but held back.
I have never met this kind of behavior from her in the 4 years we've been together. So I'm pretty sure this is something more, not just a usual white lie.
Ok probably not but it can still be a pretty simple explanation.
The second facebook thing would worry me though. To the point of not being comfortable with my girlfriend having it.
She has stated she misses some thing about being with a woman, and I can assume it's not always leaving the seat down. Perhaps you should consider being open about this? Remind yourself that this isn't a fault on your part, but a woman can touch her like you cannot - it is an entirely unique experience, and one that she desires. It is not love, but sex, and sex is good.
She cannot control what she feels, or what she desires. Attempting to shut it down with the blanket statement "it's cheating" will only lead to a prolonged struggle, which will inevitably end with desire pushing its way forth. It seems you're already at this stage.
Talk with her about it, but remember to see things from her point of view. This is not just a struggle; it is an opportunity for the two of you to become closer than ever, provided you can share this with her, rather than just fight against it.
Open marriages are just a bad idea. Don't go down that road.
No I'm not going down that path. Just because she is bisexual doesn't mean she should be able to have sex outside of our, what we both consider, monogamous relationship.
Hey I really like white women and asian women. I can't help that I desire a white woman. So she should just let me sleep with one. I get turned on by them in ways that my current wife just can't do.
She has had long term relationships with women before which were monogamous. Its like letting her go find out if she wants to be in a relationship with this other woman instead of me.
Which is totally not kosher.
No.
Bisexual people don't get a pass on cheating just because they like it both ways. If they talk to their partner before any serious commitments are made, and work out an agreement about a polyamorous or partially open relationship, that's fine, as long as everyone involved understands the rules and consents to them.
But if someone makes a formalized commitment to sexual monogamy, if they stand up before God and the courts and witnesses and promise to be faithful to their husband/wife, fucking someone else is cheating and it doesn't matter what gender they are.
We may not be able to control our desires, but unless we're goddamned primates, we can sure as shit control our actions. The fact that the OP's wife is attracted to women doesn't give her carte blanche to act on her feelings with no regard for his. He married her with the understanding that the only bed she would sleep in is his, and if she changed her mind about that after the fact, he has every right to be upset about it and to fight over it, and telling him "hey man just accept it, why don't you want her to be happy?" is flat-out bad advice.
This. If she can't "control what she desires", then she shouldn't have gotten married.
I'm uncomfortable with the above advice specifically -- it's right at the bleeding edge of passive aggressive -- but while I wouldn't recommend trying to joke about something you actually feel pretty seriously about, it is important to make the conversation as non-threatening as possible. Focus on communicating how you feel as non-judgementally as possible:
It expresses what's going on in your head (I gather) in a forthright manner, but in a much less confrontational way than, "What's going on? I know you're up to something. What are you hiding?" It's sometimes hard for people not to lie when they feel like they're being treated like a hostile witness.
If you ultimately don't have your concerns resolved (with or without outside professional help), then Bowen's right: ultimately, you get one of two choices.
We don't even know if anyone is cheating.
Talk to your wife, man. Please. Everything is huge when behind the curtain. Your real issue here isn't what she's hiding, it's that she feels uncomfortable being open and honest with you.
That goes for you too. You two need to work this out. Deal with the "issues" when you know they're actually issues. For all you know she's been planning a huge blow-out birthday party for you that she needs to keep secret about. Seriously. If you're jumping to conclusions now you might as well just file for divorce.
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that she could act without regard for his feelings. They're young, have only been married for a short time, and are at a transitional phase in their lives. It is unreasonable to assume that wants and desires will not change during the course of a relationship.
If we can't try to understand another's perspective or vantage, then communication falls apart - the cornerstone of any relationship; I understand marriages are contractual, but please, do not base relationships on what was agreed upon at one point... we all change.
Talk about it, and try to understand that it's not something you can give her. If it comes down to the point where it can't be done, I suppose that's that. Nevertheless, if you can't understand her perspective...
Perhaps I am drawing from my own experience too much... my partner and I are both bisexual, and this is a relationship that works incredibly well (for us; context, of course, always matters). We talk about anything before it happens, and often we're both in the room. What works, for me, is the understanding that sex is not related to love; it is a physical, primal, and sensual thing we can enjoy.
Your mileage may vary, but don't be afraid.
He's already stated that this is not an option for him. No point in turning this into a debate on the subject. And yeah, you're coming from a VERY biased point of view.
- Listen, if alarms are going off, it's probably for a good reason. We are instinctually hard-wired with these "alarms." When something is awry, our brain attempts to warn us.
My viewpoint is no less extreme than any other... I am just offering a different perspective. It is legitimate advice because it can (not will) work.
Regardless, my thesis was not about polyamorous relationships, but about communication. Without a real understanding of why his wife might be acting in this way, communication will devolve and the relationship will turn sour.
To the OP: Please understand where your wife is coming from, and I think I (might) understand her better than any. You do not have to pursue this kind of relationship, but you do need to talk to her, openly, about it.
Sorry, I should clarify: talk to her about her sexuality, not about the recent developments. These things which have happened recently are probably minor, and indicative of a much larger problem. This talk should happen, and it is the OP who will need to instigate it with a great deal of compassion.
Also, let her know that you're developing trust issues, and that you need her to be open with you more than ever before. The secrecy and evasiveness (use the private facebook page as a hard example, not your speculation about the call to the Phillipines) are poisoning your marriage, and the only way to undo the damage is if she starts being more communicative and open with you.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
The OP doesn't need to understand her perspective, because in the context of their relationship, cheating is wrong. That's something they both agreed on, it's a commitment she made knowing that she was bisexual and would continue to be attracted to women, and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether the OP's wife is bumping uglies with a lady or a black dude or a left-handed West Coast immigrant bagpipe technician: it's still cheating. Being bisexual or having a specific fetish doesn't magically excuse her from adhering to the norms and standards that dictate standard heterosexual behaviour.
The OP is obviously not interested in being in a polyamorous relationship, so no, he doesn't need to talk to her about how she should totally sleep with other women because sex is good. You keep insisting that without proper communication, the relationship will break down, but you don't seem to realize that she (allegedly) already cheated on him, which indicates that there's a pretty significant problem with the relationship already.
If your wife is untrustworthy and is lying to you, I think it's best if you bring in a third party, a counselor or someone willing to mediate. However, she will probably become defensive, which may further her regression into hiding things from you.
I'm not saying your concerns are correct in this case, just that I understand how her behaviour could be seen as "sketchy" and the two of you need to have a very serious adult conversation. Don't get angry, don't accuse, and don't let things turn into a shouting match where either of you might say something you regret. If this is bothering you, then this is a problem, and since it concerns your marriage, BOTH of you need to work on it.
Have you talked to your wife about how this is making you feel? If you haven't, that might be a good place to start. You want to honest with her and hopefully she doesnt want to hurt you. For sure dont shut down communication because you're frustrated with the situation
If you've already talked about your feelings and how she's hurting you with her lies then you might want to suggest a counselor. Sometimes it helps to be able to talk to an uninvolved third party. Even if she refuses, you might benefit from a few visits! (dont quote me on that though, because I dont really know and its just a suggestion so you dont feel powerless)
EDIT: yeah dora kind of said what I wanted to say, only way better haha
It's nice that YOUR polyamorous relationship works, but the OP has said already that he doesn't want one, so can it. This IS the only warning anyone in this thread will get.
I say you should let her fool around and see what comes of it. In relationships flexibility is key, and if there is a child involved you should do your best to make it work. If there really is an itch you can't scratch, well at least your masculinity is intact, right? Why would you let a little girl on girl action threaten you?
It might sound like I'm making a joke of it, but try not to look at it so harshly. Your way of thinking about the situation isn't gonna lead to anything positive, You already admit you can't trust your own wife at this point.
If the president had any real power, he'd be able to live wherever the fuck he wanted.
If the president had any real power, he'd be able to live wherever the fuck he wanted.
Ummm....
wow...obvious goose being obvious?
Just wow.
Obviously I am not present, but the way you are presenting the conversations to us, it sounds like you are asking one question when you mean something slightly different and then jumping on each little word she says in response and building mountains out of dust motes. My husband used to do this and it drove me crazy.
If anybody asked me what I did for lunch, I would tell them what I ate in approximately the middle of the day, and I would probably have to hem and haw about it because I grab some left overs out of the fridge and microwave them, one day can be a lot like the next. I would not think to tell them about a phone call that happened to be made around lunch time. If my husband then accused me of lying for answering his literal question instead of being psychic and knowing what he was actually trying to ask I would be (and have been) extremely pissed and would (and have) then avoided conversations with him until he got out of that mood. After these types of arguments I generally also want to yell and scream at him for accusing me of lying when the real problem is that I am not psychic and answered the question he asked instead of the question he meant to ask. I restrain myself, but it most definitely looks like I want to tell him something and don't.
*note, I am not talking about sex/sexuality, I am talking about day to day conversations.
I'm not about to suggest that cheating has occurred or is about to. What I will say is that it's generally preceded by some other, deeper issues that drive members of a unit apart from one another. Perhaps we can broaden our perspective somewhat and consider other, more pressing issues in the relationship that have been placing distance between the OP and his wife.
Has she really always been so cagey with you? When did it become obvious? Are there other non-romantically compromising things she lies about?
Can you honestly say that you two have been "happy" for some time? Can you say this without serious reservations?
I guess my ultimate point is this: cheating is occasionally about lust, but in my experience, it's more to do with a lack of fulfillment stemming from other problems both personal and spousal.
I ask her what she had for lunch everyday and she always answering calmly. This is the first time she stuttered through it. I had a feeling something was up but let it go. Then she mentions that woman (lets call her kristy) and I ask when she was talking to her and she stumbled through that again saying it was through email. Weird but I let it go.
Then I accidently discover she bought a phone card. I was actually setting up her iphone and using her email like she asked and saw a deleted email so I just clicked on it and it was a confirmation of purchasing a phone card. So I get suspicious from her previous behavior and check our history and its evident that she used inprivate browsing to purchase the card. Its obvious she was hiding this all for a reason. And before anyone says anything she leaves her email open all the time, I send emails from it, we use the same login. I just don't want anyone to think I was spying.
So I put 2 and 2 together. I wasn't looking to find out if she was lying, it just happened. I don't ask her questions to discover if she's cheating I do because I want to know about her day.
I'm just gonna talk to her tonight that I'm having trust issues and want to know the truth.
Whats also kind funny is I was looking through our pictures on our laptop and found a picture of her office. The pictures she has are of me and baby then her and kristy from a long time ago haha. The problem is when you feel untrusting in a relationship, you can find fault in anything they do. This feeling sucks.
And I have noticed her being quite distance recently. Then when I asked her about the call she became the most affectionate wife ever. I can honestly say she hasn't been that affectionate in over 2 years, since our daughter was born.
I can understand that. I guess it's just a matter of whether this is an abrupt behavioural switch for her, and whether the OP can honestly say all these reservations are because of a phone call kafuffle. Again, not being privy to your relationship (all of them have different inner workings), I don't know how much you two share with each other so nobody other than you can say whether this is really a red flag or go, "You know what, there's more to why I'm upset than this".
2 years old is still a baby as far as I'm concerned... could it be possible you're both still having trouble adjusting to this mentally and emotionally? It's a big switch to go from being who you were before to being a parent, and this can cause people to suffer a bit of an identity crisis because suddenly, hey, it really does all have to be about the kid and you're not the freewheeling soul you thought you'd always be. I just bring this up because in your post you talk about thinking she's chatting up other people while you're taking care of your daughter. Combined with holding back your emotions and the crying jag you mentioned, it makes me wonder if maybe you're not overwhelmed by having to focus so much of your time on your daughter and feeling distanced from your wife if she isn't involved. At this point, even if she isn't cheating, it sounds like you have some deep seated emotions tied up in this relationship and you need to get them out before they poison you and your relationship. I'd hate to think you let things sour because you never said anything or didn't get help and instead just stewed in your own growing misery and resentment.
I would still try to talk things out with her directly, but if that doesn't work or she isn't receptive, then yes, maybe you should think about a marriage counselor. Marriage counselors don't deserve the stigma attached to them; marriage isn't easy, and if you love someone, you should be willing to work at it. Too many people seem to think there's something wrong with them if they admit to needing help and they just let things fester, and tiny problems turn into boulders. Nobody's perfect. Just be as frank with your wife as you've been with us; you owe it to your marriage but ESPECIALLY to yourself to try. Nobody deserves to be as unhappy as you apparently are.
I think it's an important and very good sign that you recognize this. Distrust is a fast-spreading weed that insidiously chokes out everything else until suddenly you look around and that's all you can see. Everything else is still there if you look close, but it's ensnared and distorted by growing trust issues.
That's true whether your distrust is warranted or not.
Make sure you highlight this and how your own perspective on the relationship is colored by your growing uncertainty (you know what -- use the word "uncertainty" when you talk to her, not "distrust." It means basically the same thing in terms of how you're feeling but it's less confrontational in that it doesn't automatically seek to assign blame the moment the word leaves your mouth). That's what's important here right now. Whether the reason behind those phone calls and the subsequent obfuscations are severe or petty, malicious or benign, they're causing you to feel uncertain about what's going on in your marriage, and that's important and deserves to be discussed fully and honestly.
Do not treat it like a confrontation where you try to obtain a confession or an admission of guilt.
Do treat it like a conversation about how you're both feeling in your relationship.
This is the best advice you could get. Take it.
She basically says she is really attracted to women but men as well. She wants to sleep with women. She was hoping to get with that woman. She is very shy and can't make the first move with women, and this particular woman really wanted her years ago so my wife was hoping she would ask again.
I'm still really mad for her lying constantly about it. And even when she said she was never going to talk to her again she wanted to go say bye on a trip to the philippines, so that's very worrying. I don't know if I can trust her again. But even if we split she still wants to stay together so I can graduate and get a good job and we can take care of baby together.
So I'm just going to evaluate my feelings over the next while.
I just need one more piece of advice. She asks if she can still talk to that woman. I want to say no but should I really do that? Will it help to heal the trust?
For the better of the relationship, no, she needs to not talk to that woman while you two are together. Your wife sounds like maybe she isn't ready to be married.