Made a great decision. Do yourself a favor and play the campaign first. It's nothing like standard 1v1 and won't teach you great habits (unless you look up those habits first and practice them deliberately, even then it's a bit tough) but it'll get you comfortable enough to have a decent showing in your placement matches. Even some 2v2 is a good start. Once you go 1v1 though... you won't want to go back. Especially after dealing with some of those random partners. "Give me that fucker's units and I could win this game! Wait.. there's a mode where I can play alone! I am freeeeee!"
ZvP so far in April is actually 134-130 (50.8%) in zergs favor.
I did not expect that...
confirms exactly what I thought
All of the cries about ZvP imbalance is just pointless crying, as such things always have been. My crying about marauders, others crying about Thors, people crying about mutas, Zerg crying about Protoss, all of it just pointless crying because it doesn't appear to affect winrates in the slightest.
I liked it when Artosis said that he used a Siege Tank drop strat in BW that gave him (and others) a 100% TvP winrate for 2 months until Protoss started playing differently. Lord knows if it was SC2 you'd end up not being able to load Tanks into Dropships (or at least people would wish that).
ZvP so far in April is actually 134-130 (50.8%) in zergs favor.
I did not expect that...
The metagame for zvp has shifted from roach/hydra/corruptor to roach/infestor and ling/bling drop/infestor. Protoss are still trying to come up with stable ways of countering either composition. I'm actually surprised that the numbers aren't skewed more towards zerg, but a lot of zerg pros have been slow to transition over their strategies as well.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
ZvP so far in April is actually 134-130 (50.8%) in zergs favor.
I did not expect that...
confirms exactly what I thought
All of the cries about ZvP imbalance is just pointless crying, as such things always have been. My crying about marauders, others crying about Thors, people crying about mutas, Zerg crying about Protoss, all of it just pointless crying because it doesn't appear to affect winrates in the slightest.
While it is possible your point is true we'd need a more detailed data set to say what you're saying with any degree of certainty. Sheth has a zvp winrate of like 75% over a large sample of competitive games, but it is against scrubs in mlg open bracket and regional LAN competitions. You would need to normalize this data to players skill levels to be certain. On top of that if we go by your argument then there clearly was an imbalance for quite some time as previous months data shows protoss win percentages against zerg to be relatively favorable. You're also neglecting a pretty sizable patch change to the matchup in recent history.
Enigma435 on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I liked it when Artosis said that he used a Siege Tank drop strat in BW that gave him (and others) a 100% TvP winrate for 2 months until Protoss started playing differently. Lord knows if it was SC2 you'd end up not being able to load Tanks into Dropships (or at least people would wish that).
While I'll agree that crazy patching is a bit unwarranted this often, something did need to change in the PvP matchup. I think this change is perfect. Doesn't break 4gate, just makes it take a little longer. In the other matchups its unchanged, as the faster build times mean that you'll have essentially just as many gateway units as before, so warp gate aggression isn't dead, but it means that warp gate itself is not such a "rush for" upgrade as before, and in PvP it means you'll be able to hold a 4gate without necessarily needing either a) a 4gate yourself or b) godlike micro with not a single mistake.
ZvP so far in April is actually 134-130 (50.8%) in zergs favor.
I did not expect that...
confirms exactly what I thought
All of the cries about ZvP imbalance is just pointless crying, as such things always have been. My crying about marauders, others crying about Thors, people crying about mutas, Zerg crying about Protoss, all of it just pointless crying because it doesn't appear to affect winrates in the slightest.
Well, the reason it surprises me is that it's very different from the last few months. Jan and Feb are 10%+ in P's favour, and 2010 was slightly P favoured (about 2%).
ZvT is is still consistently about 10% in favor of T though.
I liked it when Artosis said that he used a Siege Tank drop strat in BW that gave him (and others) a 100% TvP winrate for 2 months until Protoss started playing differently. Lord knows if it was SC2 you'd end up not being able to load Tanks into Dropships (or at least people would wish that).
While I'll agree that crazy patching is a bit unwarranted this often, something did need to change in the PvP matchup. I think this change is perfect. Doesn't break 4gate, just makes it take a little longer. In the other matchups its unchanged, as the faster build times mean that you'll have essentially just as many gateway units as before, so warp gate aggression isn't dead, but it means that warp gate itself is not such a "rush for" upgrade as before, and in PvP it means you'll be able to hold a 4gate without necessarily needing either a) a 4gate yourself or b) godlike micro with not a single mistake.
While it's very true the metagame always needs time to adjust, fixing something as fundamentally frustrating and boring (for viewers and some players) as PvP is better done sooner rather than later. Understandably pros like Tyler who have to completely rework their timings and have their careers upset a bit by this have some beef, but sometimes work sucks. They'll get used to the new timings and life will move on.
well i can imagine that pros will be pissed initiall
but pvp needed fixing, even in the pro game, they had a year to work with it and in a year 4 gate remains one of the best strategies to win and was a little rediculous
so my response to tyler is, you had time, you found no solution, and so far as patching goes this has been a longass time coming
I wish I were actually good enough for these timing changes to affect my play...
durandal4532 on
Do what you can to elect Harris/Walz and downticket Dem candidates in your area by doorknocking, phonebanking, or postcarding: https://www.mobilize.us/
I'd be pretty happy if they just stopped patching at this point.
Well if this one works so would I, its hard to describe just how bad pvp is to people who dont play protoss regular, considering for most of us pvp is at least 60% of our mus on ladder and at least 60-70% of those are 4 gates, i mean i actively stopped laddering because of it and so did Dhal i believe, its anti fun, its a chore.
Other than this im in the camp that doesnt want any more changes
ZvP so far in April is actually 134-130 (50.8%) in zergs favor.
I did not expect that...
confirms exactly what I thought
All of the cries about ZvP imbalance is just pointless crying, as such things always have been. My crying about marauders, others crying about Thors, people crying about mutas, Zerg crying about Protoss, all of it just pointless crying because it doesn't appear to affect winrates in the slightest.
it proves, nor suggests nothing.
but i agree with your point. they've been shaking the box a lot lately, let's see how this settles for a while.
Maybe they saw that the angle abuse was too strong by fenix / void combos?
Anything to help spores is welcome. The things are pretty sad against t an p because of their range compared to what they are attacking. I don't really see it making a big difference though.
Anyone have more replays than that? My timings are far off and those replays don't teach me anything since they don't follow the build too close and I can't get any good markers. Day9 needs to do an episode on how to find replays. I am 0-12 on replays.
Maybe they saw that the angle abuse was too strong by fenix / void combos?
Anything to help spores is welcome. The things are pretty sad against t an p because of their range compared to what they are attacking. I don't really see it making a big difference though.
I think it'll make a difference. Before it was suicide to run your spore up to a void/banshee and burrow hoping to have enough hp left that it can actually deal some damage when it finally burrows. Now the voids/banshees can't afford to sit and attack the spore as it burrows. There isn't enough time. I can see zerg players running 2 spores around chasing voids/banshees around your base threatening them to stay and fight.
Also, one last thing I'd like them to mess with is corruptors. Those things are boring and bad.
Anyone have more replays than that? My timings are far off and those replays don't teach me anything since they don't follow the build too close and I can't get any good markers. Day9 needs to do an episode on how to find replays. I am 0-12 on replays.
I was hoping for them to add a gas requirement for helions, like 25. They're so cost effective for being able to kill all your workers in seconds. And they usually lead into banshee harass so it'd delay that a tad.
Anyone have more replays than that? My timings are far off and those replays don't teach me anything since they don't follow the build too close and I can't get any good markers. Day9 needs to do an episode on how to find replays. I am 0-12 on replays.
At your level of play I would probably recommend following the spirit of the build rather than trying to line up your numbers exactly. Try to keep your economy as tight as possible while never stopping probe production and building those buildings/units in that rough order. Do it on YABOT a few times, continuing unit/worker production while teching up and expanding.
Anyone have more replays than that? My timings are far off and those replays don't teach me anything since they don't follow the build too close and I can't get any good markers. Day9 needs to do an episode on how to find replays. I am 0-12 on replays.
At your level of play I would probably recommend following the spirit of the build rather than trying to line up your numbers exactly. Try to keep your economy as tight as possible while never stopping probe production and building those buildings/units in that rough order. Do it on YABOT a few times, continuing unit/worker production while teching up and expanding.
I am getting crushed when I do this build online though, I mean I have rough markers from the thread of 10:00 1/1 upgrades and 14:30 3 collosus out. I don't really even get close to that and I am not sure why.
Well that build, while leaning heavily on proper macro (like any build I guess), is also extremely dependent on you landing good FFs to cut terran bio up. Terran bio is mean and even if you execute the build perfectly, bad FFs and/or engagement areas will get you wrecked.
If you post up a replay or two of you attempting it I'm sure Dhal would have something to say.
Posts
What have I done?
they don't it be like it is but it do
I did not expect that...
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Unless you nuke them from orbit, I guess.
confirms exactly what I thought
All of the cries about ZvP imbalance is just pointless crying, as such things always have been. My crying about marauders, others crying about Thors, people crying about mutas, Zerg crying about Protoss, all of it just pointless crying because it doesn't appear to affect winrates in the slightest.
The metagame for zvp has shifted from roach/hydra/corruptor to roach/infestor and ling/bling drop/infestor. Protoss are still trying to come up with stable ways of countering either composition. I'm actually surprised that the numbers aren't skewed more towards zerg, but a lot of zerg pros have been slow to transition over their strategies as well.
While it is possible your point is true we'd need a more detailed data set to say what you're saying with any degree of certainty. Sheth has a zvp winrate of like 75% over a large sample of competitive games, but it is against scrubs in mlg open bracket and regional LAN competitions. You would need to normalize this data to players skill levels to be certain. On top of that if we go by your argument then there clearly was an imbalance for quite some time as previous months data shows protoss win percentages against zerg to be relatively favorable. You're also neglecting a pretty sizable patch change to the matchup in recent history.
While I'll agree that crazy patching is a bit unwarranted this often, something did need to change in the PvP matchup. I think this change is perfect. Doesn't break 4gate, just makes it take a little longer. In the other matchups its unchanged, as the faster build times mean that you'll have essentially just as many gateway units as before, so warp gate aggression isn't dead, but it means that warp gate itself is not such a "rush for" upgrade as before, and in PvP it means you'll be able to hold a 4gate without necessarily needing either a) a 4gate yourself or b) godlike micro with not a single mistake.
Well, the reason it surprises me is that it's very different from the last few months. Jan and Feb are 10%+ in P's favour, and 2010 was slightly P favoured (about 2%).
ZvT is is still consistently about 10% in favor of T though.
156-179(46.6%) in April so far.
B.net: Kusanku
Tyler apparently cares about this one since I believe he tweeted some QQ about it.
from his twitter.
I can live with that.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
but pvp needed fixing, even in the pro game, they had a year to work with it and in a year 4 gate remains one of the best strategies to win and was a little rediculous
so my response to tyler is, you had time, you found no solution, and so far as patching goes this has been a longass time coming
It's from team liquids player database. These numbers are only from international games.
Well if this one works so would I, its hard to describe just how bad pvp is to people who dont play protoss regular, considering for most of us pvp is at least 60% of our mus on ladder and at least 60-70% of those are 4 gates, i mean i actively stopped laddering because of it and so did Dhal i believe, its anti fun, its a chore.
Other than this im in the camp that doesnt want any more changes
And if they severely nerf FF then im out
it proves, nor suggests nothing.
but i agree with your point. they've been shaking the box a lot lately, let's see how this settles for a while.
although, PFs w/Repair are still BS.
Joe's Stream.
that's what banelings are for
sniping PFs or just killing all the repairing scvs
B.net: Kusanku
Two overlords with banelings solves the problem.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216670
And I had a paper and tests to study for.
Buffing the protoss early game while slightly delaying warpgate research?
Just stupid. Protoss already has the safest early game and the strongest cheeses without an early game buff.
Not to mention lol, let's make the last protoss ground unit that struggles against marauders massive.
Protoss aside, the T and Z changes are all very "why the hell are they even tinkering with this."
Maybe they saw that the angle abuse was too strong by fenix / void combos?
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Yeh, and imagine me in a game w/o a bane's nest ;-(
kept a T to one base. He pulls some banshees to harass workers. I make hydras and OSs to counter.
He squirms out of the 1 base, late. Plops a PF at his nat. My roaches never stood a chance.
I had the game if I kept playing it hard, I was well ahead on bases, I just gg'd out on the PF.
Joe's Stream.
Anything to help spores is welcome. The things are pretty sad against t an p because of their range compared to what they are attacking. I don't really see it making a big difference though.
Anyone have more replays than that? My timings are far off and those replays don't teach me anything since they don't follow the build too close and I can't get any good markers. Day9 needs to do an episode on how to find replays. I am 0-12 on replays.
I think it'll make a difference. Before it was suicide to run your spore up to a void/banshee and burrow hoping to have enough hp left that it can actually deal some damage when it finally burrows. Now the voids/banshees can't afford to sit and attack the spore as it burrows. There isn't enough time. I can see zerg players running 2 spores around chasing voids/banshees around your base threatening them to stay and fight.
Also, one last thing I'd like them to mess with is corruptors. Those things are boring and bad.
dude, you sound like me 6 months ago....
Joe's Stream.
B.net: Kusanku
I am getting crushed when I do this build online though, I mean I have rough markers from the thread of 10:00 1/1 upgrades and 14:30 3 collosus out. I don't really even get close to that and I am not sure why.
If you post up a replay or two of you attempting it I'm sure Dhal would have something to say.