Anyone have more replays than that? My timings are far off and those replays don't teach me anything since they don't follow the build too close and I can't get any good markers. Day9 needs to do an episode on how to find replays. I am 0-12 on replays.
At your level of play I would probably recommend following the spirit of the build rather than trying to line up your numbers exactly. Try to keep your economy as tight as possible while never stopping probe production and building those buildings/units in that rough order. Do it on YABOT a few times, continuing unit/worker production while teching up and expanding.
I am getting crushed when I do this build online though, I mean I have rough markers from the thread of 10:00 1/1 upgrades and 14:30 3 collosus out. I don't really even get close to that and I am not sure why.
I never stop building probes, I keep constant probe production and then save my chrono for a stalker and then upgrades, everything else goes into probes.
Downloading the SC2 demo now, if I can run it on min settings then I'll pick this up, because I've been watching a lot of Starcraft lately, and as a direct result now really want to play it.
Downloading the SC2 demo now, if I can run it on min settings then I'll pick this up, because I've been watching a lot of Starcraft lately, and as a direct result now really want to play it.
This build...the markers might be off...it seems like I only have gas left over so I warp in lots of sentries and some stalkers. I wonder if I cut out all units except probes maybe I could hit those markers. That doesn't seem very accurate though.
Man all the complaining about the PTR changes meaning the 2gate proxy zealots come back vs Zerg is kind of goofy. Just go back to scouting on 9 like in the beta and at release. :rotate:
This build...the markers might be off...it seems like I only have gas left over so I warp in lots of sentries and some stalkers. I wonder if I cut out all units except probes maybe I could hit those markers. That doesn't seem very accurate though.
I have literally never used protoss before and made lots of mistakes trying this build.
Was only 20 seconds behind his timeline when I got +1/+1.
Look for supply blocks, forgetting probes (even if just for a few seconds), late tech, and putting units into assimilators late.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
This build...the markers might be off...it seems like I only have gas left over so I warp in lots of sentries and some stalkers. I wonder if I cut out all units except probes maybe I could hit those markers. That doesn't seem very accurate though.
I have literally never used protoss before and made lots of mistakes trying this build.
Was only 20 seconds behind his timeline when I got +1/+1.
Look for supply blocks, forgetting probes (even if just for a few seconds), late tech, and putting units into assimilators late.
I don't have any of those problems, I can get around 10:30 upgrades with a very small army but I don't see that every being practical in a real game.
Man all the complaining about the PTR changes meaning the 2gate proxy zealots come back vs Zerg is kind of goofy. Just go back to scouting on 9 like in the beta and at release. :rotate:
9 doesn't find their base fast enough about half the time on these giant 4 player ladder maps.
And 14 pool is already "you might survive with better micro than him" with current build time.
!
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Well I got pretty close to 10 minutes, I just said fuck the build order and built the forges earlier than I am suppose to by cutting out some units. This build seems to solely rely on how much pressure the terran player applies.
I never stop building probes, I keep constant probe production and then save my chrono for a stalker and then upgrades, everything else goes into probes.
You should check your entire unit count against the build, and not just probes. If you're making too many sentries and stalkers, you won't have gas to start the upgrades on time.
Dropping Loads on
Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Wave 4: 19 zerglings.
Defenders: 5 hurt zealots.
Losses: Zealots go down, 5 lings hide in base to morph, but warpins clean them up. Wall is rebuilt.
Wave 5: 12 zerglings run through to attack probes. Zealots clean them up. Desperation sets in:
Wave 6: 23 banelings.
Defenders: 9 zealots, 5 sentries.
Losses: Only zealots and gateways. The wall is rebuilt thicker each time and colossi are now on the way.
Wave 7: 23 banelings, 11 zerglings.
Defenders: 2 zealots, 4 stalkers, 5 sentries, 1 colossus, no wall-off.
Losses: All but 1 sentry and colossus.
Wave 8: 18 zerglings run by (whoops, should have had a wall!) Zealots take care of them. Second colo and range are out. Note: At this point, the only other tech building he has is a roach warren.
Well I got pretty close to 10 minutes, I just said fuck the build order and built the forges earlier than I am suppose to by cutting out some units. This build seems to solely rely on how much pressure the terran player applies.
I made tons of mechanical mistakes and still had a decent army and +1/+1 at 10:20.
I'm willing to rule out "My mechanics are perfect and Tyler's build sucks" as a reasonable explanation here.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Well I got pretty close to 10 minutes, I just said fuck the build order and built the forges earlier than I am suppose to by cutting out some units. This build seems to solely rely on how much pressure the terran player applies.
I made tons of mechanical mistakes and still had a decent army and +1/+1 at 10:20.
I'm willing to rule out "My mechanics are perfect and Tyler's build sucks" as a reasonable explanation here.
Yeah I know the build is solid, my mechanics are alright but I know I am making a few key errors somewhere. I think I realized what that is. I was expanding too late, which through off the timing of my forge placement. Also using more chrono on probes.
Day9 is not asking for donations, but rather letting everyone know that they can subscribe to his channel for only $5. He was just letting everyone know about the donation link, not hinting that he needs the money. As he put it, "You can donate if you want to, if not, no biggie".
Considering how much entertainment I get from his videos every week, $5 is a steal and will gladly be his once I can find the link.
MNC Dover on
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
Day9 is not asking for donations, but rather letting everyone know that they can subscribe to his channel for only $5. He was just letting everyone know about the donation link, not hinting that he needs the money. As he put it, "You can donate if you want to, if not, no biggie".
Considering how much entertainment I get from his videos every week, $5 is a steal and will gladly be his once I can find the link.
Ah OK.
I was about to bust out the inheritance from my distant uncle in Uganda who turned out to be royalty and looking for a place to invest his wealth in, and just needed a small deposit for confirmation of account.
Royal Uncle Uganda shall have to wait...
MMMig on
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
0
MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
I'm just not liking the look of this patch at all. Tinker with warpgate cost or research time or warpgate cooldowns if you want to fix PvP.
Buffing the protoss early game while slightly delaying warpgate research?
Just stupid. Protoss already has the safest early game and the strongest cheeses without an early game buff.
Not to mention lol, let's make the last protoss ground unit that struggles against marauders massive.
Protoss aside, the T and Z changes are all very "why the hell are they even tinkering with this."
I'm very divided on this change.
Pros:
Something other than 4 gate in PvP may be viable
4 gate will be delayed in all matchups, both T and Z will have an easier time going with a macro build and defending a 4gate.
Cons:
2 gate against Z. P and T shouldn't have problems though.
Protoss army strength is nerfed for a 40 sec gap, which just happens to line up with a lot of rush timings (5RR being one).
Also, regarding 2 gate in PvZ, I remember rumblings a while back about a 9 pool 16 hatch or something (my numbers are probably a bit off) that was almost just as economical as a 15 hatch. If 2 gate really did become prevalent, couldn't zerg switch to this build and be safe, while not falling behind? Or is it not viable at all?
I'm just not liking the look of this patch at all. Tinker with warpgate cost or research time or warpgate cooldowns if you want to fix PvP.
Buffing the protoss early game while slightly delaying warpgate research?
Just stupid. Protoss already has the safest early game and the strongest cheeses without an early game buff.
Not to mention lol, let's make the last protoss ground unit that struggles against marauders massive.
Protoss aside, the T and Z changes are all very "why the hell are they even tinkering with this."
I'm very divided on this change.
Pros:
Something other than 4 gate in PvP may be viable
4 gate will be delayed in all matchups, both T and Z will have an easier time going with a macro build and defending a 4gate.
Cons:
2 gate against Z. P and T shouldn't have problems though.
Protoss army strength is nerfed for a 40 sec gap, which just happens to line up with a lot of rush timings (5RR being one).
Also, regarding 2 gate in PvZ, I remember rumblings a while back about a 9 pool 16 hatch or something (my numbers are probably a bit off) that was almost just as economical as a 15 hatch. If 2 gate really did become prevalent, couldn't zerg switch to this build and be safe, while not falling behind? Or is it not viable at all?
I think it was an 11/18 build with extractor trick.
i'm guessing that if people are proxy 2 gating all the time, they'll enjoy the green goo from my banes.
Also, regarding 2 gate in PvZ, I remember rumblings a while back about a 9 pool 16 hatch or something (my numbers are probably a bit off) that was almost just as economical as a 15 hatch. If 2 gate really did become prevalent, couldn't zerg switch to this build and be safe, while not falling behind? Or is it not viable at all?
15 hatch isn't in style now since cannon blocks are easy to execute and can cost you significant mining time to defend. 9 pool 16 hatch is suboptimal unless you're looking on pressuring with your lings which a 2 gate will swat down easily.
The standard speedling opening (14 gas/pool) has a hard time against 2 gate because lings are cost-inefficient against zealots and without spine support, a committed 2 gate can delay your natural significantly. Your only option is overproduce lings (wasting larva) or one-base roach to fend off the zealots (wasting time).
This wouldn't be so bad if all the maps featured xel'naga-or-larger rush distances (nevermind proxy shens), but since we still have close position metal and temple still (which are in effect steppes of war), we're trading one problem (ease of a 4 gate) that was mostly figured out for another problem (2 gate zealot) which was not figured out before it was patched away.
(p.s., I'm not calling this imbalanced. I think this will change the zvp early game for the worse at a time when zergs were just getting around to figuring out the midgame and endgame compositions that work.)
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
replays will give you the specific details, but numbers can give you the bigger picture, and show trends and improvements, in a much shorter amount of time.
There is nothing wrong with metrics to measure progress. There is nothing wrong with watching your replays to pick up on blunders.
To my Zerg bros: how do you handle the placement of spores/spines in your base when you're either concerned heavy drop play or DT/cloaked banshee harassment? I've tried burying the static d in my mineral line, just beyond it, or sandwiching it (in the case of lotsa air) but I'm not certain what the best placement is.
(Seriously though, if you need help with this still, let me know when I'm online and we can hammer out the achievement real quick. Hill and I discovered that pure mech rushing for tanks and golliaths with PF support worked best.)
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Man, trying to establish good habits from the start makes the learning curve in this game so much steeper than it otherwise would be.
"Always be building workers! Use control groups and hotkeys for everything!"
"But I don't even know the tech trees yet!" *Whimper*
I remember when I first started the campaign I didn't understand optimal worker counts or how many unit-producing structures to build or what upgrades to purchase (Oh, mules are good? Never got 'em). I just fumbled through with what I could produce with about 15 SCVs, a barracks (two if I was feeling frisky), and a factory or starport if the map allowed it.
That said, once you do start learning the ropes either through studying or going out and laddering for a few months you'll find upon returing to the campaign that you'll have transformed into an unholy engine of carnage.
Paradiso on
0
TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
To my Zerg bros: how do you handle the placement of spores/spines in your base when you're either concerned heavy drop play or DT/cloaked banshee harassment? I've tried burying the static d in my mineral line, just beyond it, or sandwiching it (in the case of lotsa air) but I'm not certain what the best placement is.
It depends largely on the map but against DTs I try to get them up in the chokes and make sure I scout for proxies. Against banshees your placement will never be perfect and there'll always be shit for them to snipe, but you should be hugely ahead on drones and as long as you don't lose an expo you'll be fine.
Late game, if you're not going mutas you're going to need 2 spines at your farther bases against T drop play and a spore/spine in the mineral line against DTs. If they're dedicated to killing your expansion, they'll be able to, but a single spine should keep them busy long enough to get a few roaches over. Against drop harass I'd prefer to just rely on Overlord spread and a small group of mutas pinging around because marauders are going to find holes in your defenses no matter what you do.
Basically, always in the mineral line except for against early DTs (unless they have a warp prism)
To my Zerg bros: how do you handle the placement of spores/spines in your base when you're either concerned heavy drop play or DT/cloaked banshee harassment? I've tried burying the static d in my mineral line, just beyond it, or sandwiching it (in the case of lotsa air) but I'm not certain what the best placement is.
make more queens earlier. make even more queens as soon as you feel the threat.
drop hydra den. get an OS or 2. probably 2.
If you have money left over before hydras den pops, drop spores, if you have an evo up already.
Posts
probe count?
Joe's Stream.
I have literally never used protoss before and made lots of mistakes trying this build.
Was only 20 seconds behind his timeline when I got +1/+1.
Look for supply blocks, forgetting probes (even if just for a few seconds), late tech, and putting units into assimilators late.
I don't have any of those problems, I can get around 10:30 upgrades with a very small army but I don't see that every being practical in a real game.
9 doesn't find their base fast enough about half the time on these giant 4 player ladder maps.
And 14 pool is already "you might survive with better micro than him" with current build time.
!
You should check your entire unit count against the build, and not just probes. If you're making too many sentries and stalkers, you won't have gas to start the upgrades on time.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
I would love to see this replay
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Day9 is looking for $5 donations? Consider my money his (once I figure out where the heck the link is.)
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
What does he need money for?
Kidney transplant?
Loan Shark payment???
tossgirl dowry? (grrr...)
the coffers shall open wide!
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I made tons of mechanical mistakes and still had a decent army and +1/+1 at 10:20.
I'm willing to rule out "My mechanics are perfect and Tyler's build sucks" as a reasonable explanation here.
much prefer to see replays of x in action
Day9 is not asking for donations, but rather letting everyone know that they can subscribe to his channel for only $5. He was just letting everyone know about the donation link, not hinting that he needs the money. As he put it, "You can donate if you want to, if not, no biggie".
Considering how much entertainment I get from his videos every week, $5 is a steal and will gladly be his once I can find the link.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
I'm watching it now and made the mistake of taking a drink while he went on about "nood can't play"
I don't know why, but this is definitely one of the funniest day9 moments for me.
Edit: Oh god I'm losing it as he pushes out with colossi. This must be the best funday monday ever. Why did I skip it when it was live??
SC2 NA: exoplasm.519 | PA SC2 Mumble Server | My Website | My Stream
Ah OK.
I was about to bust out the inheritance from my distant uncle in Uganda who turned out to be royalty and looking for a place to invest his wealth in, and just needed a small deposit for confirmation of account.
Royal Uncle Uganda shall have to wait...
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I'm very divided on this change.
Pros:
Something other than 4 gate in PvP may be viable
4 gate will be delayed in all matchups, both T and Z will have an easier time going with a macro build and defending a 4gate.
Cons:
2 gate against Z. P and T shouldn't have problems though.
Protoss army strength is nerfed for a 40 sec gap, which just happens to line up with a lot of rush timings (5RR being one).
Also, regarding 2 gate in PvZ, I remember rumblings a while back about a 9 pool 16 hatch or something (my numbers are probably a bit off) that was almost just as economical as a 15 hatch. If 2 gate really did become prevalent, couldn't zerg switch to this build and be safe, while not falling behind? Or is it not viable at all?
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
B.net: Kusanku
I think it was an 11/18 build with extractor trick.
i'm guessing that if people are proxy 2 gating all the time, they'll enjoy the green goo from my banes.
Joe's Stream.
15 hatch isn't in style now since cannon blocks are easy to execute and can cost you significant mining time to defend. 9 pool 16 hatch is suboptimal unless you're looking on pressuring with your lings which a 2 gate will swat down easily.
The standard speedling opening (14 gas/pool) has a hard time against 2 gate because lings are cost-inefficient against zealots and without spine support, a committed 2 gate can delay your natural significantly. Your only option is overproduce lings (wasting larva) or one-base roach to fend off the zealots (wasting time).
This wouldn't be so bad if all the maps featured xel'naga-or-larger rush distances (nevermind proxy shens), but since we still have close position metal and temple still (which are in effect steppes of war), we're trading one problem (ease of a 4 gate) that was mostly figured out for another problem (2 gate zealot) which was not figured out before it was patched away.
(p.s., I'm not calling this imbalanced. I think this will change the zvp early game for the worse at a time when zergs were just getting around to figuring out the midgame and endgame compositions that work.)
replays will give you the specific details, but numbers can give you the bigger picture, and show trends and improvements, in a much shorter amount of time.
There is nothing wrong with metrics to measure progress. There is nothing wrong with watching your replays to pick up on blunders.
Joe's Stream.
"Always be building workers! Use control groups and hotkeys for everything!"
"But I don't even know the tech trees yet!" *Whimper*
pick a race.
pick one open.
build lots of shit.
kill other person.
Joe's Stream.
Don't be bad.
(Seriously though, if you need help with this still, let me know when I'm online and we can hammer out the achievement real quick. Hill and I discovered that pure mech rushing for tanks and golliaths with PF support worked best.)
I remember when I first started the campaign I didn't understand optimal worker counts or how many unit-producing structures to build or what upgrades to purchase (Oh, mules are good? Never got 'em). I just fumbled through with what I could produce with about 15 SCVs, a barracks (two if I was feeling frisky), and a factory or starport if the map allowed it.
That said, once you do start learning the ropes either through studying or going out and laddering for a few months you'll find upon returing to the campaign that you'll have transformed into an unholy engine of carnage.
It depends largely on the map but against DTs I try to get them up in the chokes and make sure I scout for proxies. Against banshees your placement will never be perfect and there'll always be shit for them to snipe, but you should be hugely ahead on drones and as long as you don't lose an expo you'll be fine.
Late game, if you're not going mutas you're going to need 2 spines at your farther bases against T drop play and a spore/spine in the mineral line against DTs. If they're dedicated to killing your expansion, they'll be able to, but a single spine should keep them busy long enough to get a few roaches over. Against drop harass I'd prefer to just rely on Overlord spread and a small group of mutas pinging around because marauders are going to find holes in your defenses no matter what you do.
Basically, always in the mineral line except for against early DTs (unless they have a warp prism)
make more queens earlier. make even more queens as soon as you feel the threat.
drop hydra den. get an OS or 2. probably 2.
If you have money left over before hydras den pops, drop spores, if you have an evo up already.
Joe's Stream.