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Getting a Dog?
Rhino
TheRhinLOLRegistered User regular
TheRhinLOLRegistered User regular
We are thinking about getting a dog. I never owned one before, my gf had one (but her parents trained/raised it).
I want a smart medium sized dog. I was thinking border collie. My gf really likes the German Shepards.
We live in town and have 1/2 arce plot. I run everyday (in the morning). My gf stays at home so could let him out during the day. We have two cats
How hard are they to train? Should we try our selves or get a professional?
I want a smart medium sized dog. I was thinking border collie. My gf really likes the German Shepards.
We live in town and have 1/2 arce plot. I run everyday (in the morning). My gf stays at home so could let him out during the day. We have two cats
How hard are they to train? Should we try our selves or get a professional?
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Are you and your girlfriend willing to spend the majority of the day with the dog when you first get them working on training and to be on the same page and consistent. What age are you thinking? Where are you thinking of getting the dog from?
Have you researched the general traits of the breeds you're interested in? Every dog is unique but there's a lot of traits that tends to be pretty common in each breed. A mutt can flip that up. Puppies are a but of a wildcard where a more adult dog is a bit more of an indication of the dog's temperament.
These are just some of the very basic questions you should consider before getting a dog and make sure you've done research on.
Having the space and someone home with the dog is definitely a good start in terms of exercise and companionship/amount of care.
A few other things:
1. Border collies require extreme exercise and mental stimulation. I would basically say that unless you are going to be doing some kind of work with it, like farming animals or dog sports (at least 4x a week) don't get a Border Collie or a German Shep either. I wouldn't really recommend a specific breed, just go for a mutt that looks like the size and style you want from the shelter.
2. Do not buy an animal from shitty backyard breeders that advertise in the paper/online/classifieds/etc. The only breeders that sell animals you would want will have long waiting lists, extensive health checks, would be probably in the thousands for an animal and would have parents both with recent titles in shows. If you absolutely must, check this: http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html
3. Puppies are assholes, giant assholes that ruin everything. The few months of pictures of the cute little thing won't be worth it. Get an adult dog, they are just as easy to train, actually they are easier to train. They will give you great pictures, and you miss the absolute worst parts of a dogs life, and *usually* their worst habits are already trained out of them (like mouthing you all the time with their teeth, house training, chewing everything, crating problems, etc).
4. You should attend a series of behavioural classes because it is great socialisation for the animal and bonding/basics for you. After that, go it on your own unless you have issues.
Here's a page from a Border Collie rescue that outlines the issues with ownership of pure BC's: http://www.bcrescue.org/bcwarning.html
The border collies themselves are extremely genetically hardy because they're bred to be working dogs with a long working lifespan. In Canada, at least, there is no breed standard for border collies because they have no standard appearance - they are bred to work and nobody cares how they look while they go about it. Purebred dogs have a very limited gene pool and are prone to nasty conditions that you don't want to deal with.
They cast a shadow like a sundial in the morning light. It was half past 10.
If you've never had a dog before, I'd recommend going through a puppy training class with him/her to at least start off with some good training habits.
The difficult training was trying to get him to stop being so aggressive with people/dogs he didn't know. They need lots of socialization or they'll be very over-protective. I don't know if border collies have this problem.
edit: also, yeah, puppies can be assholes: my parent's Newfoundland dog chewed up my cell phone, mp3 player, credit card, driver's license, dragged my running shoes outside and tried to bury them, and the list goes on. But, puppies can be pretty fun too. I guess it's up to personal preference.
German shepherds in the US come in two flavors, show dogs and working lines dogs. The show dogs are bred to have a very sloped back and are frequently nearly crippled by being hock legged but they tend to be friendly and relatively easy to train. The working line dogs are physically sound but intense dogs that need a lot of training and socializing and might be too much for a first time dog owner. They also aren't usually considered medium sized, they are big dogs, usually well over 20" tall at the shoulder. Border collies vary greatly, but they are bred to work all day and most of them need a job (I do know one or two lazy ones but it isn't normal). Good breeders breed for high intensity along with a good off-switch (the ability to relax on command when you say it isn't time to work). Poor border collie breeders get the intensity without any off-switch and they can be annoying and neurotic.
If you decide to adopt, you might look into a rescue. They will cost more than a shelter, but the dog's will be currently living in someone's home and that person will know the dog well and be available for any questions you have and there is usually a 1-2 week trial period to make sure that you end up with the correct dog for your life situation.
If you go with a breeder, look for one that does eye (CERF) and hip (OFA or Penn) testing (and ask to see the results). Ask to meet the mother, (the father will usually be somewhere else - but ask to contact his owners). Ask for references from past puppy buyers and get a copy of the puppy buying contract - look for things like a no questions asked take back policy at any time for the dog's lifetime. Do all this before you go meet the puppies!!! Also, it is very hard to evaluate a dog's full breeding potential before the age of 2, so you might be able to find an adult dog from a breeder as well. Just because a dog doesn't have a good bite, or the right combination of traits to be a breeding dog doesn't mean it won't make a fantastic pet.
A basic manners class will be useful, find a place or two near you and ask to go watch a class (without your dog, preferably before you get your dog) before you sign up. The dogs in the class should look relaxed and there shouldn't be more than 5 or 6 people with their dogs with a single instructor.
You might also read through Ian Dunbar's "Before you get your puppy" (free download - second item on the page). While it does have a lot of puppy specific information, it also talks about choosing a dog and setting any dog up for success. If you want to read up a more on dog training I highly recommend Sue Ailsby's Training Levels.
EVEN THEN, they're a ridiculous handful. A woman I met in the park once told me, after I confessed I was having a hard first couple of months, "There are going to be days, especially in the first couple of years, where you think you made the biggest mistake ever. But it's all worth it." And it is. Border collies are absolutely amazing - but it takes a while to learn how to live with one. I'm almost exactly a year in now, and things are mostly great, but still hard from time to time.
The cat thing is important, too. Are your cats used to dogs? If not, be sure to get a dog that completely ignores cats. My dog, Archie, does not, and it's been a long hard road getting him to live with my cat.
Also, please, please rescue.
Also, here's Archie, just cuz.
The first cats my dog met had grown up around dogs. So they were completely cool with doggy social rules, he went and sniffed their buts and play bowed to them and they played with him. He is great with dog-friendly cats. However, he has gotten his nose smacked by cats that aren't good with dogs on several occasions because the average cat is not a fan of strange animals sniffing their butts. So don't just ask if a dog is good with cats, ask exactly how the dog interacts with cats. My dog is good with cats, he won't chase them, he won't attack them, he just wants to play with them/get groomed by them, but his action seriously stress out cats that aren't used to dogs (like yours) and it wouldn't be fair to put your cats through that since they already live at your house.
i personally would never get an older herding/hunting dog that was not exposed to cats as a young dog and i have some dog savy cats. we almost adopted a 1 year or so walker coonhound, but didn't since we didn't know his cat history
What kind of dog would everyone suggest? My criteria is just that I would like a dog that is smart, easy to train and social. Like I said, I like to run an hour a day and would nice to have a running buddy, but not a strict requirement.
My gf just wants a social dog that is "huggable" and gets along with the cats well. She says "nothing to hyper or to big or jumps up on people"
She (well her parents) had a German shepherd, but it was old and really laid back.
Loving, loyal, smart, fairly easy to socialize, and they get along well with most other animals.
They definitely need exercise but between the morning run, home attention, and regular fun outings/yard play that won't be hard for you two to fit in.
I miss having a retriever. I think I'm set on our next dog being a retriever or some sort of retriever mix. I love Benny (my terrier mutt) an I knew he'd be a much bigger handful but I don't think I could ever get another terrier. It's been a year and there have definitely been a lot of struggles and more to come but he's much better than when we got him.
Edit: In my life I've dealt with (but not done all the training) a purebred German Shepard, a Lab, and a retriever/collie mix. The German Shepard was a sweetie an socialize early so he was goo with other pets but with a small yard he was an escape artist and in general a bit stubborn. Super smart, but if he wasn't motivate or saw something he wanted to do that was more interesting he wasn't going to listen at all.
The Lab was also a sweetie but more high energy than the retriever. Super smart, though.
The retriever was the sweetest thing ever- also the only one I really did any training with. Eager to please, great with kids and the cat when I got him; quick to learn, playful into old age, but she wasn't overly energetic. She was just as content to cuddle at your feet/on the bed as she was to play in the yard or go to the beach/for a bike ride.
You usually need to train a dog not to jump on people. Social is also something that you need to train, although some breeds to tend to be more naturally people friendly.
I would say that you write down a list of "wants" and submit them to a few local dog rescues. A lot of rescues will have dogs in foster homes and they will be able to match you to a dog that fits. They will also usually let you have some home visits and a trial period to make sure everything works.
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My family's breed, the bearded collie, is the opposite. They're smart, but don't give a crap about anything but attention, and they're smart enough to realize that they're too cute to be denied attention. As such, they're impossible to train. They tend to scared of loud noises and are often cautious around people, so I wouldn't call them social. On the good side, they're from a herding heritage that generally doesn't use biting and are too mild to defend themselves in any way besides flight, making them good family pets. Also, it has hair instead of fur, so there's no shedding after the puppy coat. Oh, and they're really lazy.
The ancestor breed of the bearded collie, the Polish Lowland Sheepdog, seems to be about what Rhino is looking for, as it seems to be similar to the beardie but more welcome to training. It is apparently a really popular apartment dog in Poland, so it shouldn't be too high maintenance. It sheds a lot, though.
Going farther back into the heritage, the Puli also looks nice, being a popular breed in obedience competitions, although it seems to be fairly high maintenance.
My best recommendation, though, is the Shetland Sheepdog, which is popular in obedience competitions (learns quickly), is generally regarded as intelligent, is small enough to be hugged, and is more timid than aggressive (minimizing cat issues). On the downside, it needs exercise, although a half-acre sounds like a lot (I have no idea how big an acre is).
Actually, a mix would probably be the best bet. I'd say a border collie mixed with anything known for being calm/bombproof or lazy, such as a lab (seriously, those things can take a shot to the face without flinching), pug, bull mastiff, fat terrier, greyhound, pug, or great pyrenees.
Edit: Come to think of it, a border/bearded mix would work well. Both are smart, but the border is motivated and high-strung while bearded generally doesn't give a flying fuck. The only problem would be keeping the thing where you want him, as borders are smart enough to figure out ways to escape while beardeds can fucking climb.
Also get a rescue either way. Unless you are getting some esoteric breed of dog, you should be able to find an adorable mutt/mix and if you look for long enough, most popular purebreeds as well. My wife and I found a Corgi/American Eskimo from a rescue. Its basically the cutest thing ever. Hes dumb, but trainable.
Or for shits and giggles, get a cat that thinks its a dog (enjoys walks, water, exercise, loyal) but can jump 8 feet straight up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_%28cat%29
No joke. I should've got a beagle. As an aussie mutt owner, I think I've actually seen him solve problems.
Fetch is like... No, if you want it, you go get it, and stop throwing it over there.
What is too big? Personally, when I think medium sized dog I think 30-50 lbs and 16-20 inches at the shoulder. Which is about border collie sized, but half the size of a german shepherd.
Is your gf willing to go through a hyper puppy stage? If not, you might want to look into getting a dog over a year old. Even the most laid back breeds tend to go through hyper puppy stages.
What do you consider smart in a dog? "Smart" dogs as the word is usually used by trainers are the dogs that are good at solving problems. Which can be fun to train, and they do pick up on concepts quickly, but they also get bored easily and if that happens they will start trying to solve "problems" that you don't see as problems. Like how to open crates, doors, cupboards, fridges. Or how to get you to pay attention to them right now (peeing, screaming, parading around underwear are frequent solutions to this).
In general, breeds that were bred to work with humans (bird dogs, herding dogs) are easier to train and more social and more into physical contact (huggable) than breeds that were bred to work independently (terriers, livestock guarding dogs, sighthounds).
An australian shepherd or a springer spaniel sound like about the right size and both are easy to train, sociable and soft to encourage hugging. They are also both common enough that you should be able to find some if you go wander around petsmart or the dog park that you can meet and see how you like them. In both cases I would go with a puppy from a breeder with cats living in the house if you decide on a breeder, or find one in a rescue that is currently living with cats and ignoring them. There are a few very neurotic lines of aussies, so get a dog over a year so you can see its personality or meet the mother and spend some time with her. That particular breed I wouldn't get a puppy from a rescue if they didn't also have the mother available for me to meet.
Here are the breed club websites, they have a lot of information of them about the breeds and links to rescues:
http://www.asca.org/
http://www.essfta.org/
My uncle had one, and she was *awesome*. He lived at home when he had Cindy, and my Nan loved her (and she does *not* like dogs). We all loved her. She was smart, and extremely huggable
I suggest "guard" type dogs because they don't have the "OMG-prey-animal-must-catch" instincts that have been breed into terriers / hunting dogs. We have cats too, so this is extremely important to me!
Your other option is to contact your local Grayhounds as Pets (or whatever they're called where you live) and sign up to rescue a cat-friendly hound
And who wouldn't want an animal that sleeps like this:
Good luck, and I'm jealous!
According to one site I saw when researching my post, greyhounds typically don't get along with cats at all.
Italian greyhounds (the tiny version) would probably be safe around cats, they're very small and look like a strong wind would blow them away, but they are notoriously hard to housetrain.
Avoid whippets, I've heard they are even more likely to go after cats than greyounds are.
Personally, I'd suggest getting a lab mix or shepherd mix from an animal shelter.
Besides German Shepherds, Rottweiler and Rhodesian Ridge-backs my favorite large/Medium breed would be a Basset Hound but i would say that would be too lazy for you.
What would be a good match to your lifestyle would be a Jackrussle terrier but you said you wanted a medium sized dog
look best advice would be do your research and decide carefully you cant buy a dog on a whim like a handbag or a pair of shoes so think carefully and make sure its the kind of dog you relay relay want.
I wish you the best of luck xx xx
My wife hates them but a standard poodle is a great first dog. smart, athletic and super friendly. just make sure you get it around dogs as early as you can. We go to the dog park 2-3 times a week and she doesn't bark or show aggression to dogs at all when we walk her.
picking a breeder based on how cute the puppies are is asking for trouble
http://www.petfinder.com
That is true.
*However* there are Greyhounds who are cat-friendly. Otherwise our local GAP wouldn't have the following on its page:
I would class Greyhounds in the same category as shelter dogs
Good luck OP, and remember to post pictures if you do choose to get a dog!
I'll be the first to admit, though, that while I think they are fantastic dogs and I would give rather a lot to have one right now, they are probably not great for first-time dog owners.
For general information about different breeds, check out Animal Planet's Dogs 101. It's entertaining and adorable as well as informative, and they're pretty honest about whether the breed tends to be social or good with kids or other animals, as well as how much exercise and space the dog might need.
if you have cats you either need to go with:
an older dog who has lived in harmony with cats
a young dog with no exposure to cats that you can train to behave.
there is also a huge difference between smart and easy to train. there are a lot of dumb easy to train dogs which is what you want for a first time dog. Those are the types that are so eager to please you that life is easy.
the smart ones are stubborn and figure out outcomes and determine if that outcome is worth it for their action.
IMO for whatever that is worth, the best first time dog is a 6-12 month shelter mix. still young enough that most habits are not super ingrained, but old enough that they don't have most of the obnoxious early puppy stuff. Keep in mind that most shelters will list something as a lab or golden mix regardless of what it is.
Whenever I get another dog it will be a rescue/shelter, and I think that's not an uncommon feeling amongst dog-owners.
Shelter. Short haired retriever mix.
The wife and I went in looking specifically for a black female lab and ended up with our Jack, the silliest most delightful mutt I've ever seen. We just kinda knew that he needed us and we needed him.
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This is not true. A dog raised with cats still may grow up to have a desire to chase and kill furry animals that overpowers its youthful socialization with cats. Instinct can be very hard to overcome.
Yes, there are individual greyhounds, whippets, and daschunds (bred to fight badgers) who are fine with cats. There are also daschunds who grow up with cats and are fine with them until the day that they aren't, and kill the family kitty.
For a first time dog owner, it's better to avoid breeds who were bred to chase small furry things.
I agree with you on choosing an older dog that's already used to cats, though. Just don't go too much off of a puppy's personality; it may change as it grows up.
BUT
There's very little genetic diversity in the breed, and they seem to be prone to more health problems than some other breeds (cancer in particular). Also, because people love them so much, they're popular among puppy mills and backyard breeders. Besides supporting a horrible practice, you'll be setting yourself up for heartbreak if you get a dog from one of those places. Being a volume business, those breeders pay little attention to the health of their dogs. Inbreeding is pretty common, and no effort is made to breed with an eye towards minimizing genetic illnesses. This just aggravates the health problems that some breeds, like godlens, are already prone to.
Also, many of these puppies end up in pet stores, so you want to be careful there, too.
That said, if you get a golden from a reputable breeder, or some type of golden mix, it will be pretty hard for you to go wrong.
And now, for no reason whatsoever...
Lady M is very smart! Listen to all that was said.
For Golden retreivers, ask the breeder if there is any Kirby in their lines. He was a very popular sire but died of cancer at a ridiculously young age and cancer runs in lines that are inbred to his line.
You also haven't answered about size, do you have an idea of what sort of height/weight you are looking for?