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My girlfriend and chastity
This Dude
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Registered User regular
Hey all!
I'll try to keep this as short as possible.
I met a girl two years ago. We hit it off and became really great friends, but at the time she was seeing someone else so friends we stayed. About a year ago, she broke up with her partners; cue to last December and I finally asked her out.
Now, this is the first real girlfriend I've ever had (I don't count middle school, and from high school until this lady was a barren wasteland of relationships) and I'm a virgin. I really do love her, and I've never connected with another person like this. I know probably everyone experiences this when they're with the girl they love, but I feel that she honestly gets me unlike any other.
Here's the (potential) rub: She is a believer in chastity.
To be completely honest, I don't really have a problem with waiting for sex. I am a little concerned, however, about what it will be like once we have sex. This is going to sound ridiculously silly, but I don't want to have sex like once a month or only in missionary position or something like that.
Does anyone have any experience with very conservative and religious girls who practiced chastity (or at least abstinence)? Did that conservatism carry over into your sexual life or is that generally unassociated with activities in the bedroom?
So far, we've been mostly kissing, though I have gotten to second base a few times and once she did rub me through my pants.
I apologize if this is all ridiculously stupid. I just can't stop thinking about it.
I'll try to keep this as short as possible.
I met a girl two years ago. We hit it off and became really great friends, but at the time she was seeing someone else so friends we stayed. About a year ago, she broke up with her partners; cue to last December and I finally asked her out.
Now, this is the first real girlfriend I've ever had (I don't count middle school, and from high school until this lady was a barren wasteland of relationships) and I'm a virgin. I really do love her, and I've never connected with another person like this. I know probably everyone experiences this when they're with the girl they love, but I feel that she honestly gets me unlike any other.
Here's the (potential) rub: She is a believer in chastity.
To be completely honest, I don't really have a problem with waiting for sex. I am a little concerned, however, about what it will be like once we have sex. This is going to sound ridiculously silly, but I don't want to have sex like once a month or only in missionary position or something like that.
Does anyone have any experience with very conservative and religious girls who practiced chastity (or at least abstinence)? Did that conservatism carry over into your sexual life or is that generally unassociated with activities in the bedroom?
So far, we've been mostly kissing, though I have gotten to second base a few times and once she did rub me through my pants.
I apologize if this is all ridiculously stupid. I just can't stop thinking about it.
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I really want to, but how? I can't think of a way that wouldn't totally be awkward and weird her out.
"Hey, I'm worried about what sex is going to be like once we get married even though we've only been going out for five months."
To be honest, though, I don't even know if she would have the answer, if that makes sense. I mean, she's never experienced sex either, so I don't think she knows how she will be.
Perhaps that is an indicator then that you two may not be compatible after all. I suspect this is more "first time tackling the issue" on both of your parts, so I'm not saying throw in the towel now, but if you really like her, you'll find away to bring it up for discussion. If she really likes you, she'll be reasonable about your questions and concerns, regardless of where her personal feelings lie. If she isn't reasonable...that's just how some relationships go, eh? You think you have it all and then you realize that the last piece to the puzzle doesn't fit, and you can move on to bigger and better things.
Its not worth it.
Being compatible sexually and having good sex is like...half of a good relationship. Good sex smoothes SO many other things over. Discussions about important things like money, jobs, children, or property are much easier to get through without an underlying current o sexual frustration backing the relationship.
And it is NOT worth dedicating X amount of your life to someone who may not even be sexually compatible with you, just because she has some ancient, outdated, and silly belief.
Waiting until you meet someone you love to have sex is a perfectly acceptable approach to it. Waiting until the arbitrary event of a marriage is not.
While asking others for advice on this, you will undoubtedly come across people who will have anecdotes about "My friend Carol waited until marriage for sex and she has a great sex life!!". That may well be true but realise that such cases are EXCEPTIONS. It is not worth gambling a future fulfilling sex life for one person.
If you think you can maybe reason with her about her belief, go for it. If you think you can't, move on.
Waiting until marriage for sex is an objectively bad idea, and the only time it isn't silly is if both parties want to do it and know how foolish they're being.
Here's something else to consider; talk to her about it in a way in which you feel is normal... don't assume she's going to be weird about it - if she really does get you and you know each other then likely she is curious about it too!!
"I've been thinking, and I really think we should consider having sex."
Then she says,
"eww eww eww, no, I'm not having sex until marriage because (insert religious or personal belief system)"
Then you have an answer.
The answer if it goes something like that is, she's not mature enough and/or your relationship isn't important enough to even have a conversation about sex. The upshot is if she or you are totally unwilling to even consider talking about it, you're not ready for it.
edit: I would like to say that women also enjoy sex, if you feel bad for wanting to fuck, you're wrong. Sex is a totally valid thing to want and is a perfectly legitimate reason to stop dating someone. Don't pressure the person you're with, but don't sort of pretend it's okay to just have sex once a month if you want to go crazy a couple times a week. Be clear.
Personally I think people should test their sexual compatibility before marriage. I have had some bad partners in my life and our sex lives would have sucked if we had committed to each other.
My current relationship had a similar problem. My current fiancee wanted to wait until marriage for sex but only because she thought it was for the best. After about two years, I was starting to get worried. I wanted to marry her but I understood the importance of sexual compatibility. For the first two years I was OK because I was taking it slow for once and building a relationship. However, by year three, I was seriously worried.
So what did I do? I just decided to talk to her about it. She decided on her own terms that she was ready and that is probably what saved the relationship. Lucky for me, we are really compatible and have the same interests in sexual activities. Now we are getting married, pretty awesome.
If you don't mind holding out and just building a relationship, sex does not have to be important early on but it will become important eventually. It is a natural part of a relationship. I think relationships tend to be deeper and better if a couple waits a while but I don't think anyone should commit for life to someone if they don't know if the sex is good or if you have the same expectations.
TLDR: Are you young? Do you just want to have sex? Move on. Are you willing to wait a while and build on the relationship and see where things go? Alright, then do that. Just don't marry the gal without figuring out if you are sexually compatible. Bad things can happen. Sex is too important in a relationship to go all the way without... going all the way.
This is a fair concern, it's not stupid or silly at all.
I'm fairly religious myself, and come from a devout community. I'm a virgin myself, as is my girlfriend. Many of my friends were virgins when they got married, as I'm a little older now. Having sex is not the only way to tell whether or not you will be physically compatible. I think that's akin to saying that you can never know if you'll like a book until you get to, and finish the last chapter.
My close married friends have had no problems. It's a small sample size, sure, but I'm quite sure they have sex just as much, if not more, than my friends who don't abstain. My advice to you, is to talk to her about it, and help her to not be afraid of sex if she is. Personally, I took the route that Fonjo above prescribed - I talked to my girlfriend about sex, found out that we're on the same page, and though we're waiting, we can't wait. It WILL be awesome.
Good luck man!
I think people are sort of jumping the gun here.
Just because the girl is chaste now, doesn't mean she's going to be boring in bed/be the cliche religious person.
Granted, I guess the bigger question does end up being of whether you feel she's worth putting in the time to find out or not.
I've known one couple who waited until they were married to have sex, which was like age 27. Marriage is often not a fast thing, and getting married for any reason other than love is a bad reason to get married. Don't marry a girl to have sex with her. If the reason you're still a virgin is simply "my girlfriend won't have sex with me until [event]," that's a bad situation -- your point of view needs to be "I don't want to have intercourse with my girlfriend until we're married."
Sex is super important in a relationship, but it won't fix a bad relationship. Mediocre sex won't necessarily ruin a good relationship, either. But you need to be on the same page as to why you're not having sex, and what your plans are for the future.
I guess that watching an adult movie is out of the question here, but have you asked her? It is up to you if you really want to wait, but keep in mind that "Life is Short", and you could regret in the near future the experiences you neglected yourself, sex is not dirty and could be a great joy if practiced safely.
Look, ultimately it is up to you how big a deal this is. Everyone has different levels of sexuality, and a different definition of what great sex really is. If you really are happy to wait, thats fine. If you aren't, then discuss it with her. You're probably afraid the relationship will be damaged or destroyed if she's freaked out about it if you bring up the issue of sex... well, isn't that in itself somewhat of an answer to your dilemma? If she gets freaked out, that would hint to me that she might well have some hangups about sex, or at least different views to your own. Alternatively, perhaps she's just like you and can't think of a way to start the conversation and will be happy you brought it up. Just give it a shot.
So your "chaste" girlfriend believes it to be necessary to wait until marriage in order to have a sexual relationship with someone, right?
But she's fine with sexual contact as long as it isn't too heavy. She's fine with touching your penis and her being touched sexually?
How old are you both? That sounds like, honestly, about the point I was at when I was 13 years old.
I won't be a jerk and harp too long on the ridiculousness of "sacred" virginity.
I will say that you aren't going to get any answers from us. If you want to know what sex will be like with her, eventually, you'll have to ask her. Or better yet, just fuck and get it over with. There is no common denominator between religious aversion to sex and what one's actual sex life will look like. She could only want it once a month for making babies in missionary with the two of you separated by a sheet; she could turn out to want to drink piss and be beaten or have sex in public or... well. The point is that you don't know and you won't know unless she tells you or you actually have sex.
Unless "waiting for sex" is something you absolutely believe in, as well, you should re-think your complacency with her boundaries. Sex is something that happens in relationships, and an unfulfilled sex life can be as dangerous to a relationship as "cheating". It all comes down to having trust broken over the nature of your relationship.
The best advice I could give you is that she isn't the only girl who will sleep with you. If sex is something that is important to you, then you shouldn't have to be her doormat and accept that you will have to enter into a legal, financial and religious binding agreement to get sex. If she's that amazing, this might just be your "price of admission" for dating her.
Seriously. Go find someone to sex you up.
On a last note, be aware of the insane hypocritical position of defining "sex" as vaginal penetration. You two seem at least proto-sexual, and oral, anal, petting, grinding, groping etc. are all sexual activities which are sex.
I know I've had too many wonderful relationships end because of sexual incompatibility. Sex is a huge part of most of our lives (or equally, an abstention from sex for so many reasons), and it is simply silly, in my experience (which is sexually vast), to not explore sexual compatibility before making a serious, life-binding legal agreement with someone.
Another good point here. The couple I mentioned before? The ones who were both religious and both waited until marriage? They didn't do things like oral sex, handjobs, etc. They held hands. Maybe they kissed? I don't think so;p they were largely chaperoned or in group situations until they wed.
Like others have said, just have a conversation. It is incredibly important for you to be on the same page when it comes to sex. Reiterate that you're okay with waiting until she's ready (don't say marriage) but you would like to have an adult conversation about what her expectations are.
Listening to Bowen is generally a good idea, and this is no different.
And I think it really bears reminding that you should feel no shame in desiring sex. If sex is something you want, even to just try and get some perspective, then you should make it happen. That might not be with your girlfriend, either.
But seriously, talk to her.
You said you're worried that you'll just wind up having sex once a month and only in missionary.... Ok fair enough to say that you've just described an unsatisfying sex life.
In your view, what is a satisfying sex life?
Once a day? Twice a week? Everytime you're erect? You get to set the standard here...so what do you think?
Positions? What is acceptable and unacceptable? You've got the internet...so I'm willing to bet you've seen porn..you understand the basic mechanics...what made your curious? What turned you on? What made you dry heave? Again... you get to set a standard because its going to be your sex life. What do you want?
As for the girl - first off, this isnt about the girl yet, its about you. What do you want?
Once you've got at least SOME of that defined, then you can actually talk to her about it. She's going to have her own standards . . . and from there you can figure out if you're sex lifes are compatible. There is room for negotiation perhaps, but don't cave in on what you want.
My current wife and I dated for 3 years before we got married with no sexual intercourse. We wanted to wait. Other things crept in there, we felt bad about them at the time, blah blah, but in any case, there was no intercourse.
Now we get it going frequently, what seems to be common or more frequently than the standard amount of times. And not just missionary. I won't go into detail, but it is exciting.
What was most important for this and for us was talking a lot, at times in great detail, about our desires/wishes/fantasies/etc. You must talk about it. As others have said, you have got to be on the same page with everything. Try to remember that your expectations might be different, and will probably not be met. Your views of sex as a virgin will probably change drastically once you have it, but if you have the same mindset, it probably won't work against your relationship.
Yes. A committed relationship includes genital relations of some kind. I know bringing it up can be hard to do, as I was the one that brought it up with my then-girlfriend, but it'll pay off. At some point I simply said something like, "so.... what are your thoughts on the sex?" If it turns out she is happy to talk about it, win! Get to talking! If not, that might be something to consider in the long run.
What I'm expecting is that she is waiting because she doesn't want to be used for sex and wants to be appreciated (judging from their non-intercourse sex). That is, often, the case with people who want to wait. Hardly is it ever "I am religious and this is a value I hold," but more out of fear of how powerful sex can be to your emotions.
Sit down and think about what you want and need. If you're having these concerns, are you sure you're OK with waiting? Remove your girlfriend from the equation for a minute. Make sure that you, personally, are happy to wait. Don't wait for her, wait for you. It's not a completely unacceptable choice like some have said. It's a personal choice.
The unacceptable choice would be to deceive yourself into thinking you're fine with it when you're just doing it because you want to stay with her (or as others have phrased it, 'marrying for the sex'). You don't want to have some part of yourself blaming her down the road if you find yourself with unsatisfied needs. You need to be responsible for figuring out what your needs are and then making sure you're in a relationship that can fulfill them.
Now, after however much introspection and maybe you say "Yep, chastity for me" (and maybe you're already at this point, your wording just doesn't sound hard and firm in the OP). At that point, you circle back to communication. I'll reaffirm what others have said: It's not silly to worry about this. Just talk to her.
The conversation itself is important. Even if neither of you has an immediate answer, or any kind of answer, it's important that you're communicating. If she knows that it's something you think about, then she'll be giving it thought and eventually (hopefully) she'll be able to express what she thinks she wants and needs.
TL;DR: The important thing is to figure out what you really want and need, and establish a dialogue. Should you really have sex with someone that you're not comfortable talking to about sex?
1) Just because you're not inserting tab A into slot B doesn't mean you're not doing anything. You can figure out whether you're compatible or now without penetration.
2) Get over your fear of talking about it. Good, clear communication is the cornerstone of any decent relationship. If you're afraid to talk to her about sex you really need to sit back and discover _why_ you're afraid to talk to her about sex.
3) Sex is important. Sure, it's not the only thing, but it is a major part of an adult romantic relationship. You're going to have to broach the subject at some point, and it is loads better to talk about it now, realize you fundamentally disagree and split than to wait, and only ever have sex missionary under the covers on your bed (and only your bed) and be miserable - because you may love her like no other, but if you want more and she's unwilling to even try it'll eat away at you and you'll grow to resent her.
4) I'm serious, talk to her. It's the only way to be certain what she's thinking, and you'll be a stronger person for letting your nads drop a little.
Push this further and see how she reacts. Make it clear before though that she knows that you're not planningto sex her out, so the "non-sex" activities can continue without her being afraid that she'll be forced into a "sex now pls" situation. You'll know if it can work if you both have fun even without the "sex".
Personal experience: Me and my girlfriend are waiting until marriage (or at least financial stability) to have vaginal sex, but all other sexual activities are basically on the floor. It helps that we're both on the same page and both enjoying what we do, so I know we're sexually compatible.
So, I guess what I'm saying is you may talk all you want about "knowing you are sexual compatible" and how important that is, but the studies show something different.
My wife and I talked about sex, quite a bit actually. We both knew were were attracted to each other, and we had discussed what we were going to do for birth control etc. once we got married. There was no oral sex or anything like that, either. There was a little bit of grinding that sorta' started on accident because of heavy kissing, but I'm saying that it *can* work, and it *does* work.
Now, all that being said: If you have no reason to stay a virgin, and you feel like she is restricting/constricting you into it, then I agree that that is not a healthy relationship. Sorry if I sound preachy, it's probably a bit of a soapbox of mine.
Edit: Work is busy, so I wrote this over the coarse of a few hours. I see that there are some good responses up before mine, so I feel a bit bad about being preachy and angry. Sorry.
And while I tend to find it strange, personally, it can help quite a bit knowing where the line is with sexual activities. Waiting until marriage for penetrative sex is very different from abstaining from any sort of sexual activity. And there's plenty of awesome sex you can have without penetration.
Communication will always be the common denominator. If you are able to maturely and trustfully speak about your relationship and sex, you should be fine. The biggest red flag in any sort of "sexual issue" between two people is the inability to honestly speak both of their minds.
If you're uncomfortable with waiting then you can't force anything upon her, and you know what you have to do.
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Honestly, worrying about whether future sex will be boring when the OP has no knowledge of what sex feels like or what is / is not boring to him seems a little off-kilter. OP is putting the cart before the horse here, and even if he had the order right, he doesn't really know how to drive yet, or whether he likes carts and horses or other strained analogies instead.
OP, how old are you? How old is she? More info please. Lacking that, Bowen + facades = good advice.
I say it is more than likely that person who is uncomfortable with sex is not going to be a wild romp in the hay.
I would also like to remind you that there are many other people out there, and this is your first girlfriend. I'm sure you think she is the bees knees right now, but if you aren't compatible in other areas, such as religious belief, then maybe you should look elsewhere. Staying with someone who does not at least somewhat share your religious or political viewpoints seems to confine you to two options in life. As Issac Asimov says in his memoir I. Asimov, "To marry someone at complete odds with myself in those basics would be to ask for a life of argument and controversy, or (in some ways worse) one that comes to the tacit understanding that these things were never to be discussed."
He continues "Nor could I see any chance of coming to agreement. I would certainly not change my own views just for the sake of peace in the household, and I would not want a woman so feble in her opinions that she would do so. No, I would want one compatible with my own views to begin with and I must say that this was true of both my wives."
but they're listening to every word I say
There is a difference between "uncomfortable with sex" and "uncomfortable with the idea of sex right now". A giant, huge, chasm lies between those two things. Moreover, the OP has no personal experience of what a wild romp in the hay entails. He might think it actually involves romping and hay. He might think it involves stuff he's seen on the internet. Both are equally wrong!
:winky:
Anyway, there's a bit of research out there showing that people who practice abstinence have sex a few years later than those who don't, but make up for lost time and then some by having much more sex and being much more reckless. Basically, girls who are celibate are likely to be repressed nymphomaniacs.
Of course, it's also been my experience that a lot of christian girls are totally nuts even though they seem normal, so you may have to watch out for that.
Look . . . you need to respect her beliefs (ie don't badger her for sex if she doesn't want to have sex), but that doesn't mean you can't talk about sex and your concerns over it. Yes, it may be embarrassing at first, but you will learn more about your relationship in the process. And, who knows, maybe she is secretly interested in having sex but feels like you'll think she's a "slut" if she does. Or--maybe she is really dedicated to being chaste till she gets married. Ultimately, you can only learn these answers from her, not from the internet.
Two things:
First, make sure you use condoms if you two DO end up having sex. (I don't know your girlfriend's background, but it's possible she went to a school that didn't teach safe sex--so make sure you, at least, are educated and prepared.)
Second, don't jump into marriage at the youngest age possible if you two don't end up having sex. That is just a disaster waiting to happen.
b) The OP does imply that he is no longer in high school.
As for your question about how to approach this subject with her, you know her much, much better than we do, and what sounds like it will gently encourage conversation to someone here my sound like pressure to her. I recommend you stay far clear of openers like "Look, we need to talk."
You said she's been clear that she wants to wait until marriage... have you two talked about marriage at all yet? Because unless you're ready to have that conversation, there are some other openers you might want to avoid.
Rejection of sex is a rough subject because its hardwired into our brains. To reject something that is a basic tennent of every animal on the planet can take you two ways:
1. A devotion to a belief structure...someone people actually do just hold out against the urges and think thats the way to go. In intrerest of full disclosure, I was not one of them..in fact, I didnt even consider that waiting was an option.... I know it happens...people who've done it have even posted in this thread.
2. The Human Pysche. Sex can be scary. Even when you first experiment, you understand that you've discovered something profound. Something powerful. Some people fear it. Saying you want to wait till marriage puts off having to deal with it. I've witnessed this happening too.
Some people are damaged - Abuse sufferers sometimes dont ever want to even think about sex because it reminds them of the abuse. Abuse sufferers also sometimes fly off the handle and engage in as much sex as possible . . . this is the Human Pysche, it isnt fully explored and no one gets a map.
The only way you'll know which case it is...is to talk. You're contemplating spending the next 80 years together...you'd better learn how to lay your cards on the table and get her to lay hers down too. If you guys keep things from each other, I can promise you an ocean of pain.
What is the point in chastity when you're going to act like any other sexually active couple aside from one tiny regard?
I don't mean that she is wrong in keeping one particular form of sex personal and something not shared so willingly with others, but I don't see it working for most people as the lines get blurred and you start wondering why oral, or maybe even anal, sex is alright but not vaginal.