Helping my dog.

RT800

Recently my dog was diagnosed with a mast cell tumor inside his nasal passage and soft palate. The vet tells us it is malignant and has spread to his lymph nodes and possibly his liver. She also tells us that because of the location of the tumor and the age of my dog (~16 years) they cannot/will not perform surgery since he would be unlikely to survive the procedure. They cannot cure him.

In the mean time the tumor is making it very hard for my dog to breath. He's wheezing and sometimes seems to be gasping but his gums are still pink (indicating that he seems to be getting enough oxygen). The vet suspects the cancer may also have spread to the bones in my dog's nasal cavity, which would cause further pain, but she isn't sure. He barely eats and is shedding, but this is not terribly unusual for him. He's always been picky.

We were given some options. Chemo or radiation therapy. Both are expensive, but the radiation sounded like it came with some pretty unpleasant side-effects like dry skin, bleeding, or possibly even brain swelling. We opted for the chemo in addition to several other medications and pain-killers to try and shrink the tumor so my dog can get some relief. His first chemo session was this week. The vet says it has about a 45% chance of shrinking the tumor and we'll know in 2-3 weeks if it's working.

Obviously my dog does not look good. He's not going to get better. He appears to be suffering, but I don't know how much. Maybe it looks worse than it is? We've considered putting him down but I don't want to short change him by an instant just because I'm uncomfortable.

Advice?

noir_blood

Okay, I might sound insensitive, but I would think that putting him down is the best option and would give him the most relief.

Librarian

While I admire the fact that you are willing to do the best you can to improve things for your dog, you have to keep in mind that he is very old and has an uncurable illness.
I have a friend who is a vet and while I have not asked her about your specific case I am pretty sure that she would advise to put the dog down.
Whatever you do now will not heal the dog, but just extend the suffering.
I know how bad it is to have to make that decision, but in the end your dog will not really benefit from an extra couple of weeks, this is something you are doing for yourself to get ready for putting it down, but it won't get any better the longer you wait.
It sucks either way, better get it over quickly.

ceres

I usually say that when the bad moments outnumber the good, it's time. If it were treatable it'd be different, and from the sound of it you'd be willing to go to whatever lengths, but with metastasized cancer in a 16-year-old dog there's not too much you can do.

Have all the good times with him you can, but when he's no longer a happy dog, I would consider putting him down.

Heir

Honestly man, it sounds like he's suffering pretty badly. It might be time to consider putting him to sleep. I know it's hard, but do you want him to suffer anymore?

Man that really sucks, I'm sorry.

FyreWulff

RT800 wrote: »

Obviously my dog does not look good. He's not going to get better. He appears to be suffering, but I don't know how much. Maybe it looks worse than it is? We've considered putting him down but I don't want to short change him by an instant just because I'm uncomfortable.

Advice?

Putting down a dog at 16 is not short changing them. 16 is a damn good run, as he's basically the equivalent of a 90 year old person.

You're not a coward or anything for putting him down. It's okay to let him go. Have a nice night with him, make him an awesome dinner, then take him to the vet the next day to put him down.

It's not going to be easy.

You will cry.

But the dog is suffering and the chemo is going to give him an extra few months at best, and it's going to get worse before it gets better (because that's what chemo does). You have to weight his suffering over your want to keep him around. It's a strong want, and everybody experiences when a pet has to go.

But over the next month or so afterwards, you'll feel relieved that you don't have to worry about him anymore.

elmo

Had a boxer with lymph node cancer, the vet gave the dog prednisone to keep the swelling of the nodes down. Gave me a extra two months with the dog but i eventually had to put her down. Maybe the prednisone will have some effect on the dogs breathing.

I dont think your short changing your dog by putting him down. Personally i had a few weeks to build up to the day where i had to take a last trip to the vet, but im %100 sure i did the right thing. Im no vet by any standard, but i have a impressions that dogs are bad ass and will be reluctant to show pain/discomfort, but that might just be me speculating or some such.

Think FyreWulff nailed it.

Casual Eddy

absolutely put the dog down. I say this as someone that loves my dogs and cares for them dearly, but this is a dog that's almost certainly in pain and very near the end of its life. You could probably extend your dog's life with treatment, but it will almost certainly be misery for your dog, and that's not a good way to see a good friend go out. You'll be left with a stack of bills and almost certainly regret.

EDIT: one of my dogs was not showing any pain or agitation, and that was after a deer stomped him in the chest and displaced his heart and cracked his diaphram. He was his usual chipper self until his last trip to the vet. Some dogs simply do not exhibit pain, so keep that in mind.

Skeith

Putting down my dog was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. What made it bearable was knowing that it was better for him, not for me; he had an advanced case of heart worms that had been suppressed with medication for a while, but for the last four or five days he was pretty clearly suffering. He had trouble breathing, ate next to nothing, was very lethargic, and did his business right on the driveway when normally he'd do it on the furthest part of the property. I think he was... 10? when I put him down.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this. The treatment may work for a while, same for the pain meds, but when you get down to it most dogs don't live to or beyond 16 years, and yours has one hell of a disease to top that off. Anyone who loves animals can appreciate the effort you're putting in to keeping him alive, but this may well be it. Ask yourself if keeping him alive is for his benefit, or for you and everyone else who knows this dog because it sure as shit is traumatic to lose a pet.

Kistra

I'm a little bit unclear... is your dog currently in pain? Do their eyes still light up for a favorite toy? Do they still go crazy in their own elderly way for something?

Did you have a conversation with your vet about just keeping your dog pain free and easing their breathing without trying to do anything about the cancer? (ie consider treatments that may even make the cancer worse - a few good happy pain free, easy to breathe days are better right now than two months of uncomfortableness)

Personally, I would be bugging my vet for symptomatic relief even if it shortened my dog's life and then spend the weekend taking them to McDonalds or wherever and spending a lot of time together and then putting them down once they were in pain I couldn't take away or they just didn't have joy in things they used to.

elmo

Kistra wrote: »

a few good happy pain free, easy to breathe days are better right now than two months of uncomfortableness

harry.timbershaft

I love my dog. He's my buddy. If I were in this situation, I would put my friend to sleep. Have one last awesome day with him. Talk to your vet and see if they'll come to your home for the procedure... maybe laying on his favorite dog bed... maybe out in the back yard laying in the grass. Some vets will do this and it's an option worth paying extra for.

Makes me tear-up just thinking about it.

Good luck.

HK5

I'm going to be the lone dissenter here and suggest not jumping to the euthanasia option. You've started the chemo already, so if I were you I'd stick it out for the full course rather than abandon it at this juncture.

Unless his blood work shows that he's declining to the point that he can't handle the drugs anymore it's worth a shot at throwing this into remission. It's entirely possible you'll buy him a few more happy months with you. It sounds to me like you want to take that shot and see if chemo can help him buy some time. You're not a bad person for wanting to try that. You're not a bad person if you don't think he can handle it and decide to put him down. He's your boy, you love him, and you'll make the right choice.

zen-

I recently had to make that call on one of my dogs and whilst it wasn't the most pleasant experience I didn't have any other recourse, and I'm not entirely sure if I would have done the same thing if I had options.

You know your dog, if he's miserable all the time then putting him down is probably for the best. If you start to see a difference through the chemo then well, that's your call.

RT800

Thanks for the advice.

He seems to doing a bit better lately. We've got pain-killers if he's in pain but I've mainly been concerned about his breathing. It's strange. The vet has speculated that the tumors are triggering an allergic reaction in his sinuses. At one point, she even said she didn't think he was getting any air through his nose at all.

What's strange about it is that I hardly ever see him breathing through his mouth. Some days I hear him breathing loudly and some days not at all. His other medications are aimed, not at treating the cancer, but at treating his allergic reaction to the cancer. Benedryl. Antihistamines. He seems to have his good days and bad so I assume they must be working to at least some degree.

I think I'm gonna stick with the chemo for a few more weeks and see how it goes. The vet tells me that dogs seldom experience the same negative side-effects as humans and I don't want to deny him the chance at a good day tomorrow just because today was so shitty.

mts

you just need to be aware of how he's feeling.

Our friends dog had lymphoma and responded pretty well to chemo, but lymphoma never really goes away. they can respond to chemo well and they don't typically get the negative effects seen in humans as your vet said.

if he doesn't respond you just need to make him comfortable until he tells you when its time, and at that point you need to not be selfish

Skeith

I don't think I'll be able to change your mind, so I'll just say good luck with the chemo, and I hope it works for your dog.

lrklugman

Is your dog still alive? my baby is 13 and her cancer has spread, but she shows no signs of pain. the doctor just prescribed us pain killers, her poo isn't runny, shes not sick shes happy. she also has a big bump on her back the size of my fist, the doctor said the cancer is aggressive. its not her time to go. did the chemo work, did you end up doing it?