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Let's talk about Knights of the Old Republic

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Posts

  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I remember loving every bit of the discussion going on in KotOR II. The first game was a classic space dragonslaying story, with a minor third act twist (that admittedly caught me at the time, but actually has little relevance to the plot as a whole). But the second had way better writing; pretty much everything with Kreia, Visas Marr, Atton Rand and Mical in it was excellent. And that's just companions; several of the other NPCs were pretty amazingly written too.

    I played through the second game as a Dark sider (aspiring to be a Sith, if you see what I mean) and I don't think anything barring Planescape: Torment really came close to actually making me view the character I was playing and the decisions I was making as closely as this. Kreia's reactions to the player - especially if they try and play as a blackhearted bastard Sith - are all debateable and interesting.

    Bethryn on
  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I found Mical really annoying, but Atton was good and Kreia is definitely amongst the best NPCs I've ever seen, yeah.

    SoundsPlush on
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  • DarisDaris Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I really don't think I can enjoy a pure Sith playthrough. I think I'll end up more jaded semi-sith. Not that it really matters... the dark side bonus sucks anyway. Besides, I'll run out of enemies before I run out of lightning. :P

    Daris on
    Borderlands 2 on Steam & League of Legends: Ephemis
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I got bored before I could finish KotOR II. What happened? Was there a KotOR like twist?

    The big twist was...
    That there was no twist. There was no great reveal, no master revelation. All of the big events were exactly as they seemed to be, and you were caught up in it simply because Kreia decided to use you as a pawn.

    Anyway, I'm in the camp that KotoR 2 was worse then KotoR. This is because I wanted another Star Wars RPG, and KotoR2 is decidedly Non-Star Wars in its themes and presentation. Don't get me wrong, I loved KotoR 2, its got one hell of an interesting story and a bunch of interesting characters, its just I find that they really don't fit Star Wars.
    I'm a massive Star Wars fan, and if I wasn't in jail for being too big of a Star Wars fan you would see my Star Wars avatar, but you'll have to settle for just my Star Wars username. In any case, I don't subscribe to the whole "it's only Star Wars if the main character is a good guy Jedi with a blue lightsaber with an older Jedi mentor with a blue or green lightsaber and a cocky smuggler gunslinger pilot companion and a short droid that beeps and a tall droid that talks and they fight faceless armored enemies that can't shoot straight" and so on and so forth.

    That's...not what Star Wars is about. Star Wars is, at its heart, a classic Fairy Tale. Its about good being good, evil being evil, and how in the end, good always finds a way to win. Its a story about how through a journey with friends, one grows beyond their initial beginnings to become even better. It's a story about how love will find a way if you believe in it. It's a story about how no matter how far one falls, redemption is always available.

    KotoR 2 avoided these themes like the plague. In the end of KotoR 2, good wasn't always good and evil most certainly wasn't always evil. Good did not, in fact, find a way to win. The only character who grew was the PC, the rest of the cast ended up set in their ways. There was no redemption for anyone (although had Atton's end not been cut he could have fit that. As it was, he was just constantly running away).

    So, while KotoR 2 had an excellent story and an excellent cast, the fact is it was a terrible Star Wars story.

    AspectVoid on
    PSN|AspectVoid
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    That's...not what Star Wars is about. Star Wars is, at its heart, a classic Fairy Tale. Its about good being good, evil being evil, and how in the end, good always finds a way to win. Its a story about how through a journey with friends, one grows beyond their initial beginnings to become even better. It's a story about how love will find a way if you believe in it. It's a story about how no matter how far one falls, redemption is always available.

    KotoR 2 avoided these themes like the plague. In the end of KotoR 2, good wasn't always good and evil most certainly wasn't always evil. Good did not, in fact, find a way to win. The only character who grew was the PC, the rest of the cast ended up set in their ways. There was no redemption for anyone (although had Atton's end not been cut he could have fit that. As it was, he was just constantly running away).

    So, while KotoR 2 had an excellent story and an excellent cast, the fact is it was a terrible Star Wars story.
    I see what you're saying there, but to me it makes more sense to look at it from a different angle: KotoR 2's story and characters are so strong precisely because the game is a Star Wars game. It comments, and by and large successfully so, on the black-and-white moral Star Wars universe. What power it has as a story comes from having A New Hope etc. as its foil.

    Thirith on
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  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Star Wars: YMMV

    RoyceSraphim on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    That's...not what Star Wars is about. Star Wars is, at its heart, a classic Fairy Tale. Its about good being good, evil being evil, and how in the end, good always finds a way to win. Its a story about how through a journey with friends, one grows beyond their initial beginnings to become even better. It's a story about how love will find a way if you believe in it. It's a story about how no matter how far one falls, redemption is always available.

    KotoR 2 avoided these themes like the plague. In the end of KotoR 2, good wasn't always good and evil most certainly wasn't always evil. Good did not, in fact, find a way to win. The only character who grew was the PC, the rest of the cast ended up set in their ways. There was no redemption for anyone (although had Atton's end not been cut he could have fit that. As it was, he was just constantly running away).

    So, while KotoR 2 had an excellent story and an excellent cast, the fact is it was a terrible Star Wars story.

    By this definition, TIE Fighter has a horrible Star Wars story. Despite being, you know, inarguably one of the best Star Wars games. I don't think anyone would dispute the fact that it is very much un-Star Wars movie like in its plot--with its lack of hilarious robots, princesses, arms dealers/drug mules with hearts of gold, aliens with boobs, etc.--but it is, apparently, a horrible Star Wars story, not just a very different one. KOTOR II had a lot more of that--especially in the departments of cleavage, princesses, hilarious robots, drug mules, etc.

    Hell, it doesn't even have any magical templar wizards (except in a very peripheral sense). The greatest message it has concerning evil is, perhaps, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."--hence, the necessity of some of the early missions in which you're intended to stop ethnic cleansing resulting from decades-long blood fueds.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Being the original story set in the universe doesn't make it the only storytelling archetype that is legitimate within that universe.

    That's just silly.

    OptimusZed on
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  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Star Wars: YMMV

    RoyceSraphim on
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Being the original story set in the universe doesn't make it the only storytelling archetype that is legitimate within that universe.

    That's just silly.

    It does according to the creator of said universe. Lucas is very explicit about what kind of universe Star Wars is.

    I love KOTOR 2 to death, but it only got away with what it did because LucasArts wasn't paying a damn bit of attention until near the very end.

    Fiaryn on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Being the original story set in the universe doesn't make it the only storytelling archetype that is legitimate within that universe.

    That's just silly.

    It does according to the creator of said universe. Lucas is very explicit about what kind of universe Star Wars is.

    I love KOTOR 2 to death, but it only got away with what it did because LucasArts wasn't paying a damn bit of attention until near the very end.
    Lucas is wrong. And the SWU would have been better off if he had just spent the last 30 years collecting royalty checks and letting people with actual vision handle the storytelling.

    This is the man that vetoed wookiee jedi and gave us JarJar Binks. He's a blight on the setting at this point.

    OptimusZed on
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    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I agree, but he's the last word on the setting. That's just the way it is.

    Fiaryn on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Being the arbiter of what is "official" is not the same as being able to say what is objectively good or bad storytelling.

    Lucas may not like it, but KotOR2 happened and it was better than anything he's done in decades. Same with the Unifying Force and Lowbacca.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    WAAaAAAAaAAAit a minute, I thought KotoR2 was done under the watchful eyes of LucasArts.

    RoyceSraphim on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I don't know officially, but I can't imagine it was. The character of Kreia and her relationship with the Force was pretty much anathema to Lucas's vision for the setting.

    Things like Kreia, the Potentium Heresy and Jacen Solo (during NJO) were typically snuck in under Lucas's radar and then either pushed into Z canon or retconned depending on how much they mattered going forward.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    The only character who grew was the PC, the rest of the cast ended up set in their ways. There was no redemption for anyone (although had Atton's end not been cut he could have fit that. As it was, he was just constantly running away).
    Um?

    Atris? Kreia? Visas? Sion? You already mentioned Atton.

    Bethryn on
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Bethryn wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    The only character who grew was the PC, the rest of the cast ended up set in their ways. There was no redemption for anyone (although had Atton's end not been cut he could have fit that. As it was, he was just constantly running away).
    Um?

    Atris? Kreia? Visas? Sion? You already mentioned Atton.

    Even without the cut ending, the Handmaiden grows pretty significantly as a character, depending on how you interact with her via dialogue.

    korodullin on
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  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    korodullin wrote: »
    Bethryn wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    The only character who grew was the PC, the rest of the cast ended up set in their ways. There was no redemption for anyone (although had Atton's end not been cut he could have fit that. As it was, he was just constantly running away).
    Um?

    Atris? Kreia? Visas? Sion? You already mentioned Atton.

    Even without the cut ending, the Handmaiden grows pretty significantly as a character, depending on how you interact with her via dialogue.

    Yeah, Mira, Bao-Dur and Visas all explicitly confront and defeat a great evil from their past that has haunted them and grow as people, finding some semblance of peace. Bao-Dur's probably dead when he reverses the Mass Shadow Generator, but Mira and Visas defeating Hanharr and Sion respectively means they finally overcame a fundamentally character flaw.

    Seriously, Mira was awesome and actually got her solo duel in the finished game. Twice.

    Z0re on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Thirith wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    That's...not what Star Wars is about. Star Wars is, at its heart, a classic Fairy Tale. Its about good being good, evil being evil, and how in the end, good always finds a way to win. Its a story about how through a journey with friends, one grows beyond their initial beginnings to become even better. It's a story about how love will find a way if you believe in it. It's a story about how no matter how far one falls, redemption is always available.

    KotoR 2 avoided these themes like the plague. In the end of KotoR 2, good wasn't always good and evil most certainly wasn't always evil. Good did not, in fact, find a way to win. The only character who grew was the PC, the rest of the cast ended up set in their ways. There was no redemption for anyone (although had Atton's end not been cut he could have fit that. As it was, he was just constantly running away).

    So, while KotoR 2 had an excellent story and an excellent cast, the fact is it was a terrible Star Wars story.
    I see what you're saying there, but to me it makes more sense to look at it from a different angle: KotoR 2's story and characters are so strong precisely because the game is a Star Wars game. It comments, and by and large successfully so, on the black-and-white moral Star Wars universe. What power it has as a story comes from having A New Hope etc. as its foil.
    Exactly.
    Synthesis wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    That's...not what Star Wars is about. Star Wars is, at its heart, a classic Fairy Tale. Its about good being good, evil being evil, and how in the end, good always finds a way to win. Its a story about how through a journey with friends, one grows beyond their initial beginnings to become even better. It's a story about how love will find a way if you believe in it. It's a story about how no matter how far one falls, redemption is always available.

    KotoR 2 avoided these themes like the plague. In the end of KotoR 2, good wasn't always good and evil most certainly wasn't always evil. Good did not, in fact, find a way to win. The only character who grew was the PC, the rest of the cast ended up set in their ways. There was no redemption for anyone (although had Atton's end not been cut he could have fit that. As it was, he was just constantly running away).

    So, while KotoR 2 had an excellent story and an excellent cast, the fact is it was a terrible Star Wars story.

    By this definition, TIE Fighter has a horrible Star Wars story. Despite being, you know, inarguably one of the best Star Wars games. I don't think anyone would dispute the fact that it is very much un-Star Wars movie like in its plot--with its lack of hilarious robots, princesses, arms dealers/drug mules with hearts of gold, aliens with boobs, etc.--but it is, apparently, a horrible Star Wars story, not just a very different one. KOTOR II had a lot more of that--especially in the departments of cleavage, princesses, hilarious robots, drug mules, etc.

    Hell, it doesn't even have any magical templar wizards (except in a very peripheral sense). The greatest message it has concerning evil is, perhaps, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."--hence, the necessity of some of the early missions in which you're intended to stop ethnic cleansing resulting from decades-long blood fueds.
    This!
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Being the original story set in the universe doesn't make it the only storytelling archetype that is legitimate within that universe.

    That's just silly.
    Precisely.

    You're right in one sense: KotOR II is most definitely not the story in the movies, or in the prequels, or in some of the comic books and novels and LEGO kits. In short, it's not the fairy tale. What it is, though, is an examination of the fairy tale. It's a very deep, nuanced look at some of the key elements of the Star Wars universe.

    If it were a deep, nuanced look at stuff that isn't in all the movies, novels, comics, etc., then yes, you would be right that it's not a Star Wars game, because no matter how deep and nuanced a story is, it's not about Star Wars if it's not about this fairy tale stuff.

    To be a Star Wars story, though, it doesn't actually have to be the fairy tale. The good vs. evil stuff is absolutely key to the universe, but every story does not literally have to be good vs. evil, and every good vs. evil story set in the Star Wars universe isn't necessarily much of a Star Wars story. I could write some fan fiction set on Dantooine or whatever where a jerk does something bad and a good person stops the jerk, and maybe there are blasters, but that wouldn't really be much of a Star Wars story aside from the blasters.

    KotOR II, on the other hand, dives right into that good vs. evil stuff. Obviously it's not a retelling of that stuff in the way KotOR is, but it's still about that stuff.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Z0re wrote: »
    korodullin wrote: »
    Bethryn wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    The only character who grew was the PC, the rest of the cast ended up set in their ways. There was no redemption for anyone (although had Atton's end not been cut he could have fit that. As it was, he was just constantly running away).
    Um?

    Atris? Kreia? Visas? Sion? You already mentioned Atton.

    Even without the cut ending, the Handmaiden grows pretty significantly as a character, depending on how you interact with her via dialogue.

    Yeah, Mira, Bao-Dur and Visas all explicitly confront and defeat a great evil from their past that has haunted them and grow as people, finding some semblance of peace. Bao-Dur's probably dead when he reverses the Mass Shadow Generator, but Mira and Visas defeating Hanharr and Sion respectively means they finally overcame a fundamentally character flaw.

    Seriously, Mira was awesome and actually got her solo duel in the finished game. Twice.
    I'd argue that Bao-Dur as a character probably grew the least, with Mira not far behind. Still good characters and both had satisfactory closures of their storylines, but as actual people they weren't too far off from where they started. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though.

    I can never bring myself to turn Bao-Dur Jedi though. It just never made story sense to me.

    korodullin on
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  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    WAAaAAAAaAAAit a minute, I thought KotoR2 was done under the watchful eyes of LucasArts.

    Negative. They didn't pay a damn bit of attention until Christmas at which point they went OH SHIT TIME TO SHIP CHRISTMAS RUSH DAWGS.

    There's an amusing interview with Avellone where he notes how amazing it is that they got away with what they did, and how almost none of it would have flown if LucasArts had been doing any editing like they usually do.

    Fiaryn on
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  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I wholeheartedly disagree with the person who said Kotor 2 wasn't as epic as the first. It's been a while since I've played it, but don't you combat a sith lord in a giant, gutted battleship held together only by his will? Also stop/ assist the overthrow of a planetary government? Also
    potentially kill every remaining Jedi Master in the universe?

    WhiteZinfandel on
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  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I said it wasn't aiming for epic narrative, i.e. tale of grand heroics and battles, not the internet usage of the word.

    SoundsPlush on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    KotOR2 definitely felt more like most D&D campaigns, in that there was a group of hardy survivors exploring the ruins of a once-great civilization. They still did awesome things, but the mood was much more post-apocalypse than clash of the titans.

    OptimusZed on
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  • big lbig l Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    KotOR2 definitely felt more like most D&D campaigns, in that there was a group of hardy survivors exploring the ruins of a once-great civilization. They still did awesome things, but the mood was much more post-apocalypse than clash of the titans.

    The excellent LP touches on this - how KOTOR 2 is as much as anything else an exploration of the past. A history of what happened to the Exile in the Mandalorian Wars and the importance of that. Even many planets are individually little histories - Peragus, you wake up and investigate what happened to shut down the station, Dxun is basically an extended flashback to the Mandalorian Wars, Onderon you investigate a murder, etc.

    big l on
  • AkilaeAkilae Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The more I learn about LucasArts the more I've been convinced over the years that every decent Star Wars game that was ever made was more of an anomaly than anything. For example, I cannot imagine TIE Fighter being made these days with the way LucasArts commonly asserts control over everything Star Wars.

    Akilae on
  • RAGE.RAGE. Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Doesn't the new MMO count as an ending?

    That remains to be seen.

    I doubt it, though. It would be pretty silly, business-wise, to give your game that depends on a subscription scheme a definitive ending.

    RAGE. on
  • RAGE.RAGE. Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Akilae wrote: »
    The more I learn about LucasArts the more I've been convinced over the years that every decent Star Wars game that was ever made was more of an anomaly than anything. For example, I cannot imagine TIE Fighter being made these days with the way LucasArts commonly asserts control over everything Star Wars.

    Oh, absolutely. Good Star Wars only happens when Lucas (and I'm talking about George Lucas personally) isn't paying attention.

    RAGE. on
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Lucas and his ilk need to recognize that they should stick to keeping the feel and continuity but leave the storytelling to others. As long as the lightsaber handles the same as it did in the first movie, I'm cool with it.

    RoyceSraphim on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Lucas and his ilk need to recognize that they should stick to keeping the feel and continuity but leave the storytelling to others. As long as the lightsaber handles the same as it did in the first movie, I'm cool with it.
    But they don't, anymore. Lightsabers in the OT had weight and inertia. They were slow moving, hard to control and terribly balanced. Lucas even said in his notes that they were supposed to be incredibly difficult to actually fight with because they were hard to move.

    In the PT, they're basically glowsticks. Light and balanced, so as not to impinge on the acrobatics of their wielders.

    Of course people have since wanked the original lightsaber combat scenes in to being "Djem So vs Djem So" to explain this away. Meaning that the lumbering styles of the first three films were a specific type of lightsaber combat and not due to properties of the sabers themselves.

    OptimusZed on
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  • DarisDaris Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I was raised by my grandparents. You see the original version of a few westerns and embracing change becomes much easier. So, can we get people's thoughts on 'The Old Republic'? It's looking like something I will play the hell out of, and I'm pretty finicky about MMORPGs. It just seems like the next step in the genre to me, with a lot of it's features being extensions of other games and features from other games standard.

    Having npcs that do crafting for you and accompany you on missions? It's been done, but I don't recall many games where it was used to this extent or was integrated from the beginning. Not to mention the voiced interaction between npcs and my character in a world that reflects my choices. Further, being able to 'go sith' in a cutscene or respond in other such ways makes flashpoints seem great.

    So much of it looks good to me, but those were two things that got my attention. Oh, and classes other than Jedi being able to shine is also a huge draw for me. Taking down some sith or jedi weebo with a concussion shell or a snipe to the head... it will be glorious.

    Daris on
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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    RAGE. wrote: »
    Akilae wrote: »
    The more I learn about LucasArts the more I've been convinced over the years that every decent Star Wars game that was ever made was more of an anomaly than anything. For example, I cannot imagine TIE Fighter being made these days with the way LucasArts commonly asserts control over everything Star Wars.

    Oh, absolutely. Good Star Wars only happens when Lucas (and I'm talking about George Lucas personally) isn't paying attention.

    Well, TIE Fighter definitely would have not gotten made.

    - No Rebel/Republican/Warrior Monk Good Guy Campaign
    - No hilarious, one-trick sidekicks
    - No force powers/Jedi shenanigans
    - No characters directly from the films being absolutely crucial to the entirety of the plot (remove Vader and the Emperor from TIE Fighter and you're left with....the large majority of missions in TIE Fighter anyway).

    Any one of these things would probably doom the game, much less all four. Rogue Squadron pushed it with merely one of these things. Which is why only fighter games like Jedi Starfighter get made now.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm doing a DS run in KOTOR and it is ridiculous. They try to shoehorn it in but it really doesn't make sense storywise. My buddies keep chiming in wrt my evil deeds but consistently do nothing. Also DS doesn't feel very inexorable. I have to be eternally vigilant lest I revert to the mean (which is to say the nice).

    themightypuck on
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  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I think the silliest part of KOTOR1 has got to be Battle Meditation. Probably the single most transparent incident "Force MacGuffin". What does it even do?!

    It somehow makes the Republic fight better, okay how, is it like some kind of hivemind link or what? How do the pilots feel about this?

    Fiaryn on
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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    It's turning them all into a collective toolbox for the Jedi.

    Which goes against the whole preachy individual shtick that good guy politics preach in Star Wars ("See! Our space pilots have unsealed space suits so you can see their faces! So you know we're the good guys!"), so it's deliberately skirted around, I bet.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    I think the silliest part of KOTOR1 has got to be Battle Meditation. Probably the single most transparent incident "Force MacGuffin". What does it even do?!

    It somehow makes the Republic fight better, okay how, is it like some kind of hivemind link or what? How do the pilots feel about this?
    The effects of Battle Meditation have been different in every iteration of it. Watching them try to translate such a non-mechanical thing into PnP RPG mechanics has given me a lot of exercise cringing.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm doing a DS run in KOTOR and it is ridiculous. They try to shoehorn it in but it really doesn't make sense storywise. My buddies keep chiming in wrt my evil deeds but consistently do nothing. Also DS doesn't feel very inexorable. I have to be eternally vigilant lest I revert to the mean (which is to say the nice).

    This is why you leave your bio-buddies on the ship. Keep HK and your T3 at your side and you won't be bothered when you do your darkside thing. HK will likely cheer you on, at worst T3 will burble a little sadly at the fact that his master has apparently taken to sodomizing jawas with rabid womprats as a pastime.

    If you must bring along another meatbag to keep you company, Canderous is pretty good about keeping his opinions to himself, well outside of that one instance on Tatooine, anyway. Also makes a pretty good beatstick if you give him a couple good swords and some armor.

    see317 on
    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm doing a DS run in KOTOR and it is ridiculous. They try to shoehorn it in but it really doesn't make sense storywise. My buddies keep chiming in wrt my evil deeds but consistently do nothing. Also DS doesn't feel very inexorable. I have to be eternally vigilant lest I revert to the mean (which is to say the nice).

    Welcome to the wonderful world of BioWare morality. If you wish to remain evil, please kick puppies and stab orphans. Soon, your face will be veiny. Have a nice day!

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    see317 wrote: »
    I'm doing a DS run in KOTOR and it is ridiculous. They try to shoehorn it in but it really doesn't make sense storywise. My buddies keep chiming in wrt my evil deeds but consistently do nothing. Also DS doesn't feel very inexorable. I have to be eternally vigilant lest I revert to the mean (which is to say the nice).

    This is why you leave your bio-buddies on the ship. Keep HK and your T3 at your side and you won't be bothered when you do your darkside thing. HK will likely cheer you on, at worst T3 will burble a little sadly at the fact that his master has apparently taken to sodomizing jawas with rabid womprats as a pastime.

    If you must bring along another meatbag to keep you company, Canderous is pretty good about keeping his opinions to himself, well outside of that one instance on Tatooine, anyway. Also makes a pretty good beatstick if you give him a couple good swords and some armor.

    I get that and actually just started to leave everyone on the ship and go solo. Still, for a DS playthrough I don't know what my motivation should be. They don't really make much of an effort to explain why I'm doing what I'm doing
    although a realization I'm Revan triggered by how may ds points I have might have been cool. Then I'd have a solid reason to want to kill Malak.

    themightypuck on
    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

    Path of Exile: themightypuck
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The temptation of the Dark Side is one of those things that seems like it would be really hard to work into a game like KotOR.

    They managed it somewhat well after several iterations of the PnP games, but the best method was still just something a dev threw out in a development article.

    It's hard to corrupt players that are jaded enough to understand that it's a game.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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