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Is it normal for a kitten to attack people's eyes?
EggPuppet
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I adopted a kitten. She is a beautiful creature and I love her very much. I've sunk over a thousand dollars into her, counting deposits, fees, supplies, toys, and time off work that was necessary to take care of her. However, I had to surrender her back to the ASPCA. As much as I love her, and as much time, money, and energy as I've sunk into this animal, I cannot keep her, because she has a habit, which was getting worse, of attacking my eyes and those of others.
She turns on a dime - one minute, she'll be a calm, cuddly little critter purring in my lap, then the next, she gets that "I SPOT PREY!" look in her eyes, and if not stopped, will reach or pounce towards my fucking eyeballs.
I tried drawing back, doing the "wounded meowl," or hissing, and/or putting her down and discontinuing attention, but when she doesn't get what she wants, she'll just deliberately misbehave more in an attempt to force attention. When she's hungry, and I start getting food out for her, she'll get impatient and start deliberately bringing her claws out, pouncing onto my leg, and cutting it by grabbing on to demand my attention.
I know it can take a while and a variety of strategies to train an animal out of destructive behaviors, and I know kittens have a strong instinct to test boundaries and indulge their every impulse, but when it comes to tearing out someone's eyeball, there is no margin for error on that bullshit. I couldn't train her out of eye-strikes, because in order to do that, she'd need to repeatedly execute the behavior and receive a negative response, and I can't let her do that in the first place. I guess I would need to wear goggles around her at all times, or else I'm at risk of mutilation any time my guard drops.
Is that just a normal part of kitten-hood, or was this a bad cat? Could I have done something differently?
She turns on a dime - one minute, she'll be a calm, cuddly little critter purring in my lap, then the next, she gets that "I SPOT PREY!" look in her eyes, and if not stopped, will reach or pounce towards my fucking eyeballs.
I tried drawing back, doing the "wounded meowl," or hissing, and/or putting her down and discontinuing attention, but when she doesn't get what she wants, she'll just deliberately misbehave more in an attempt to force attention. When she's hungry, and I start getting food out for her, she'll get impatient and start deliberately bringing her claws out, pouncing onto my leg, and cutting it by grabbing on to demand my attention.
I know it can take a while and a variety of strategies to train an animal out of destructive behaviors, and I know kittens have a strong instinct to test boundaries and indulge their every impulse, but when it comes to tearing out someone's eyeball, there is no margin for error on that bullshit. I couldn't train her out of eye-strikes, because in order to do that, she'd need to repeatedly execute the behavior and receive a negative response, and I can't let her do that in the first place. I guess I would need to wear goggles around her at all times, or else I'm at risk of mutilation any time my guard drops.
Is that just a normal part of kitten-hood, or was this a bad cat? Could I have done something differently?
EggPuppet on
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Attacking . . . well, just about anything, is pretty typical kitten behavior. I adopted my cats when they were kittens any my hands were scratched up all the time, plus it took a long time to convince them that it was not appropriate to attack my legs under the covers when I happened to move them.
Your kitten was probably a pretty typical kitten who unfortunately decided eyes were the bestest toy in the whole wide world.
What you should have done is instantly scruffed her neck (do not pick her off the ground w/ this technique, that can damage her, just lift her slightly so she supports herself). That will let her know she has misbehaved because it is what the mother would do. edit: When she is calm, put her back down and if she was in your lap lay her there or if she was elsewhere, put her down and just walk away. Do this anytime she is overly aggressive. Scruff calmly. Wait for her to calm. Then return her to her spot. You are roughly 7,000% bigger so I think you can handle it.
It's normal. My kitten Deedee was super naughty, but now she's laying on the top of my chair right above me. Trimming her claws is still a fun time though!
Oh, was I not clear enough GET THE FUCKING CAT BACK. Train the cat.
I did consult other people. I talked to a vet. I was told she should have another kitten to work out her behavior with. My place isn't large enough to make a good multiple-cat household, and I can't possibly keep up with twice as much of that.
Hopefully someone with a better environment for her personality will adopt her. Honestly, I'm a little worried that she's going to wind up clawing out some toddler's eyes.
https://medium.com/@alascii
You can train the cat, but if you don't want to someone else hopefully will. Please don't get another pet until you're willing to put in the effort or consider one of the billion older animals that needs a home and will be mellow and loveable. Babies of any species are difficult.
edit: I'm trying not to be angry at you, but what did you expect from a kitten. Volunteering at shelters, I see people get fucking kittens every fucking day and oh, we can't move with our cat and oh our kitten clawed something we liked. My burning rage is overwhelming me. I'm writing this edit because you are not ready for a kitten. So don't get another one in a year. Googling the problem would've given you the advice I gave you from an animal trainer.
I did google the problem. I read a book about cat behavior before adopting her. I did follow the advice I obtained. Here's the problem: One fuckup in this situation leads to a lifetime of mutilated vision.
I'm not whining because she scratched the furniture or something - she did, I don't care, I expected that - but she was incessantly doing the one thing that could potentially inflict real damage, and her response to my attempts at training was to do it more frequently and aggressively.
Given enough time and repetition, she could probably eventually be trained out of that. I'm not willing to risk the vision of myself and others in my home for that long. The only way for someone to safely be in the same room as her and take their eyes off of her would be to wear eye protection at all times. I don't find that acceptable. If someone else wants to do that or roll the dice on getting their corneas torn out, they now have the opportunity to do so.
If anyone would like to imply I'm a bad person who has not poured his heart, soul, and pocketbook into trying to give this animal a loving and kind home, you're ignorant and can go fuck yourself.
And well, pets in general and young pets in particular are often a lot like having kids.
They're dumb and they behave poorly for a long time and they suck up a lot of time and money and energy if you want to raise them right.
You should go into any future adoption of a new pet with both eyes open in this regard. Awful almost-pun intended.
edit: The final answer to your original question is "No, that is not normal. The cat was removed from its mother and littermates too soon. Proper training can overcome that." I have spent a significant portion of my life rehabilitating abused animals.
This is the help and advice forum.
Currently you do not have a cat that is giving you problems.
Do you want to be told you did the right thing?
I don't think you did the right thing. I think you did the easy thing. When there you are effected by a problem there are three broad actions you can take. You can remove the problem, refuse to let the problem effect you/ignore the problem or fix the problem.
You chose to get rid of the cat. Your eyes are no longer at threat, the problem may be persisting though, you just don't know. Also keep in mind that if that kitty doesn't get adopted again it will get put down.
I am not saying any of this to make you feel bad. I haven't said if you are a good or bad person. I am saying this so you can realize the consequences that your actions caused.
Satans..... hints.....
Were you holding it up to your face and it kept trying to reach out and claw? That's pretty normal for a misbehaving kitten.
I wanted to know whether this was a common problem with kittens, and receive advice on how, if at all, someone in this situation could produce a better outcome. While I will not voluntarily adopt another young cat in this household, I might be able to induce a better outcome if someone I know encounters a similar problem in the future, or if I find myself in the position of attempting to rescue an animal with the same problem.
According to your edit, the answer to the first question is "no." I appreciate the clear answer.
To the second question, I have received one solution that was infeasible (find another place to live so you can fit in more cats), and some general purpose advice on how to give negative feedback to cats which does not at all address the primary dilemma here (that the consequences of this particular behavior make it intolerable, precluding ordinary training techniques.) Perhaps I can assume from this that those are the only tools in the box.
You're trying to make a passive-aggressive twist-of-the-knife with your remark about how she won't be adopted because she's a week older now, but realistically, she's young and photogenic enough that her odds are pretty good. Her behavioral problems may well be exacerbated by her relocation, as you say, but during her time here, thanks to the blood I lost working with her, I was able to massively reduce her previous tendency to violently attack the limbs of any human who walked by her; an improvement which might save her life.
Or maybe I ruined her chances. Or maybe she would've been adopted by someone who smashes her skull in the first time she attacks whether or not she spent this time with me.
If you are sitting down in any sort of chair with a back or if you are within about a foot of any climbable object a cat can reach your eyes. When I got my first cat she liked to jump up on top of the refrigerator.
Now there's a fun morning. You wake up and walk blearily into the kitchen to find some waffles and suddenly ninja cat leaps from the fridge for a breakfast of eyeball.
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Because all I am hearing from you is, I tried for a bit, then stopped. But it's OK because I spent money!
You are completely blowing up the danger of the kitten scratching your eye and blinding you.
Firstly, why did you just put on a pair of non-perscription glasses? This wouldn't have stopped the cat, given time for you to train the cat out of the problem.
Secondly if you were getting scratched why didn't you just trim the cat's nails? This (not de-clawing) doesn't hurt the cat whatsoever.
Finally, all the advice that everyone gave you was fucking solid behaivoural problems take time a week is piss all. If you actually tried to do it, it would have worked.
Satans..... hints.....
Because we can make some judgement about what we find unacceptable in our household. This isn't laziness, at most it's a slightly overblown fear which I can completely empathize with.
For all that, it does take a long time to retrain animals and one week is never ever enough. But it seems you took most precautions before buying the kitten and you just ran into one thing you couldn't deal with.
Edit: Also, Blake, none of the things you suggested are infallible. And yeah, a simple scratch on the eye can be unacceptable for those of us who rely rather heavily on perfect eyesight.
You can trip and get the corner of table.
Playing sports you can get an errant finger.
It's a cat you can physically see it.
If you keep an eye out for it, when it goes for you you shut your eyes, problem solved.
Maybe if you can't paying attention to it, take it off your lap, you should be able hear it if it jumps behind you or feel it when it jumps on you to attack you. Besides like I said, non perscription glasses.
The comparitive threat of this cat is nil compared to other things.
Satans..... hints.....
and twigs don't pounce.
Also licking your eyes. God that's annoying while you're sleeping.
you got anything other than minor scratchs or one lucky cut from a kitten? I'm not convinced dude.
This whole thing reads like it was sitting in your lap and thought it was playing and went for your eyes a couple of times. Did you expect a cat to know that your face is out of bounds?
oh no! A cat is doing a cat thing! They don't understand that their claws hurt you
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that kitten related blindings are roughly as common as fishtank drownings.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Failing that, a decent welder's shield will cost about $50 and can be found in the same home renovation store. Failing that you can get a custom made ringmail sharksuit for about $400. Failing that you could get a level IV EOD kevlar vest with ceramic front and rear plates, throat and groin protection, a spine protection insert, and a MICH TC-2000 combat helmet for under $10k. Failing that, are you sure you bought a kitten and not some form of bio-engineered deathclaw/bloodcat alien space hybrid?
Totally different situation, but:
I have a 2 year old daughter and when she was a very young baby I was very worried about my mother in law's weiner dog who is probably the dumbest dog I've ever met, coupled with it's owner babying the dog to the point where it has some serious anxiety issues. The dog in question LOVES to lick and nip at your face and even at 5+ years old doesn't understand "NO" or "Come here" or that nipping and clawing are unacceptable. Actually he probably understand the words, but knows he doesn't have to listen due to poor training.
Back to the point. When my daughter was very little and could basically only wiggle and roll over I was very concerned when visting grandma because I felt it was unacceptable to leave the dog indoors when they wanted to put the baby on the floor and we were not sure how the dog would react. It's just a bad recipe, and I had to push the point and probably seemed like I was overreacting, but fuck them I don't care. I'm protecting my defenseless child over a simple minded animal.
Now with that said the situation is TOTALLY different when you're a full grown human being and there were probably percautions (like the glasses) that would have fixed your problem, but if you have guests frequently it would be an issue for them, plus having to explain to them to be on their guard. I can understand not wanting to deal with it, sucks for everyone involved, but don't feel bad about the choice you made.
I haven't spent a large portion of my time caring or even worrying about mistreated animals like some have, they are just animals after all, and while they shouldn't be treated cruelly they aren't priceless either, like your eyes are. I adopted a puppy, trained her, and she is a 40 lbs retreiver mix and 7 years old now and is a SUPER well behaved dog and a full member of our family, she is great with my daughter and likewise have I trained my daughter to treat her well and with kindness.
I personally would have taken the kitten as a challange and been too stubborn to give up and let the kitten "win" (lose since it got sent back). Perhaps I would have regretted keeping her.
He didn't drown the kitten in a sack, he gave it up to people who are going to try to find a home for it. And it's a kitten, which if I'm not mistaken see significantly better placement than older cats in many cases.
Well, maybe not if the first thing they do when they see a person is to go for the eyes.
Look, OP, giving up a pet due to a perceived threat of physical harm doesn't make you a bad person. Taking your word for it that you consulted people and online/offline resources, it's better this than feeling that your pet might decide to blind you in your sleep or something. It's a shame that it came to this, but you're not the worst thing that ever happened to kittens.
I know declawing cats gets many cat owners' fur up, so I imagine trying or suggesting that here might draw further ire (see, it could've been worse! He could've mutilated the cat before it mutilated him!).
Though apparently they do make Soft Paws for kittens.
It took two years to undo the damage that had been done to her when she was a kitten. Two years to reassure her that when we bent down over her food, we were refilling it, not taking it away from her. Two years to teach her that pouncing on our legs at night was not something we appreciated. Two years to convince her that being in a human's lap and getting her ears rubbed was actually awesome, not dangerous and threatening.
At this point, she is the best kitty in the world, and I would not trade her for anything. She is vocal, affectionate, and demonstrative, and she loves both cuddling and playing. She used to refuse to even sit near us when we watched TV; now, whenever either of us flops down on the couch, she will eagerly jump up into her human's lap, then gradually shift and wiggle around until she's crawled halfway up his (or my) chest, where she'll stay for as long as she can, purring constantly, gazing up at her owner with her eyes half-closed in bliss.
And, you know, even with all that, even though she very obviously trusts us and feels comfortable around us, she still scratches and nips a bit when she plays. She loves tricking my fiance into rubbing her furry little tummy, then snapping her paws shut against his arm like a kitty bear trap and biting at his hand. It's just what she does, playfighting is part of a cat's natural behaviour. And she does it as a full-grown, mature cat who spends most of the day sleeping: if she were a kitten, I have no doubt that she'd be a right holy terror, until she grew up enough to settle down.
So yes, it's normal for kittens to attack everything in sight. It's normal for adult cats to engage in a bit of rough play, too. And it's normal for it to take months, if not years, to train an animal to be comfortable in a new home, and to avoid especially destructive behaviours.
An indoor cat has an average lifespan of about 12 years. If you got fed up with yours after a week, please consider a less challenging pet in the future.
This cats claws aren't going to pierce your eyelid and tear your retina. You're almost certainly more likely to get majorly (and permanently) injured in car accident than from a kitten, even a kitten that attacks your eyes. Afterall, eyes are useful to have, but so is control over your legs. And not having debilitating back pain for the rest of your life. And your hearing. And having both hands. And both your big toes, so you can walk. The list of injuries I'd rather losing eyesight in one eye over is pretty long....
That being said, I am not a person with anxiety issues. If this can was causing you anxiety to a degree that you did not feel safe in your own home, perhaps it was not a match. (I really *don't know*. My wife has anxiety, and that is just one thing I cannot really understand. I think whenever I start getting anxious, I force myself to confront whatever action and think about it rationally, a habit I started in childhood). So, I can't tell you that your decision was right or wrong. Yes, you've greatly decreased a cat's chance of surviving. But...well, sometimes I suppose certain things are more important to some than the life of an animal.
Edit: Although on reflection, I'm still not sure what the OP wanted...I guess my advice is to...not have anxiety. Yeah, do that. But it sounds like he's asking for justification.
If you're confident that you did everything you possibly could, don't sweat it. Pets have different personalities, and maybe you should try adopting a non-kitten that already has a developed, known personality. That way you can make sure you get one that isn't a murderer. (Not that all cats aren't evil, they're all vicious, killing machines. Get a dog)
Ha ha, my kittens did that too. One of them would also sleep on my face, with his paws curled up and comfortably resting in my eye sockets. Comfortable for him, that is. I would always wake up smothering under his purring body.
Anyway . . . sorry, but your kitten was acting like a normal kitten. I'm not trying to judge you, but that's the truth. This was a playful kitten who thought of it as a fun game, not a frothing attack dog bent on killing you. It's too bad the kitten decided eyeballs were so much fun instead of a less fragile body part, but that doesn't make her psycho--not any more psycho than any other kitten, at least. (I had to laugh at the description of the first post of how the kitten would be calm one minute and rambunctious the minute. That's what kittens do.)
My advice is never to get another baby animal. They aren't born knowing this stuff. If you aren't willing to teach them how to behave appropriately, they aren't for you.
All cats will do these things to some degree, especially kittens - if you can't deal with this, then I would have to say maybe a kitten is not for you in general, and maybe not even a cat at all.
As regards the eye thing - while yes, I can definitely see how this would be a little unsettling, she really was not trying to incapacitate you and feast on your delicious eyeballs. It was a mostly normal play behavior, and it could have been dealt with. Kudos for bringing her back to the ASPCA rather than any less savory option though.
Heh...you ain't seen blood loss - picture the 15-pound cat below being a dumbass and getting his back legs caught in the fliptop of a garbage can. Then picture him screaming his head off and slicing up your arm with 4 feet while you pull him out. Bandaged up for a week
I love him to death despite his pyscho moments though, because like I said, that's just what cats do.
IT'S A TRAP
0431-6094-6446-7088
Except that anyone who has ever owned or met a kitten knows this was perfectly normal kitten behavior. Unless this kitten was wearing a Red Lantern ring I think it's safe to say the OP might have overreacted. Which is fine, it was the OP's kitten and he was well within his rights to give it up... frankly if he wasn't going to invest the time and effort and, yes, blood, into training it then the kitten is better off being given up. But acting like this kitten was the second coming of Gozer the Gozarian is just being silly.
I had to pin my cat down and take a pair of tweezers into her mouth to removes chicken bone she had lodged in her upper jaw when she got into the garbage once. I looked like an emo super star after that.
But all of that aside, I still don't understand how this kitten was a danger to you. It was a fucking kitten. An animal with several cliches about it all related to being gentle. Not because they're actually docile and calm, but because they're so small, it's ludacris to think they'd be able to actually do you serious harm without hour say so. I could take on 100 kittens. I'd do it, too. Let me at em.
Really though, OP. You are getting torn apart in here because you came in here with an overblown account of a kitten of doom! The thing was hyper? It pounced? It clawed? It wanted to play at random and fight too? Let me guess, did it also have a tail? This is all kitten behaviour.
You mention that with proper advice you could get another cat in the future and deal with it better. I believe the proper advice is, "don't." Get a goldfish. Say you have kids by then and try again with a kitten. If you're wound up NOW.... No. Bad idea.
@ Sentry: I have two cats and I do _not_ know that it is perfectly normal kitten behavior because I didn't see it. Is it normal for a kitten to swat at things? Sure. Is it normal for a kitten to repeatedly go for the eyes with apparent purpose and savagery? No. I have no way of telling which of these things actually occurred except for what the OP has told us.
Either his cat is crazy and dangerous or it is normal. If it is normal then either he is lying or his judgment is so poor that he cannot reasonably evaluate risk. Either of the latter options is frankly insulting to the OP and shouldn't be assumed to be the case without a great deal stronger evidence.
0431-6094-6446-7088
OP, you really, REALLY overreacted.
Kittens do this because they don't know not to. Nobody has taught them that they're not supposed to do that- which is supposed to be done by a mama kitty or you, using a soft but firm "no" when the kitten does it.
Getting scratched and or pounced on comes with owning a cat. You get out the Neosporin and a Band-Aid, you stick them on the scratch, and you deal. If a cat scratches you after you pick it up and wants down, that's just cat for "I don't like that. Please don't do it again."
Maybe cats just aren't for you, you know? If getting clawed and bitten is so much of a problem for you, then if you still want a pet, you should do a bit of research as to what would fit your needs.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
The other is a skittish little shit who will meow in your face when your sleeping but rarely let you touch her. Shes also an avid toe attacker.
The thing is I expected all of this. I grew up around cats my whole life and I know they are fuckheads but I love them regardless. It takes patience and calm to deal with them. Theyre like two year olds that never grow up. You only finally get respite when they get fat and old and dont give a fuck anymore.
My point is cats are fluffy, adorable assholes. If you cant handle them don't adopt one. They will piss you off and they will fuck your shit up just like human kids do.
Get a horizontal scratching post. If the cat is scratching the bed, it probably likes something flat. Some like vertical scratching posts and some like horizontal ones.
Don't give the cat attention if it is behaving in a way you don't like. Put it outside the bedroom if it does the behaviors you don't like.
Also have at least two litter boxes. The normal rule is # of cats + 1, actually.
but all of what he described is perfectly normal kitten behavior. The choice of eyeballs as a target is odd, but the targeted pounces and general violence is normal.
It's the descriptions of how the behavior is affecting him that seem exaggerated.