The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent
vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums
here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules
document is now in effect.
[The Drug War] UN Declares drug war a failure, Obama rejects calls for change, hope
Posts
Ahh, ok, yeah I'm not talking from the perspective of growing as a business or anything. I imagine that's pretty tough, if nothing else just by virtue of all the competition to do things in the most efficient and profitable manner.
How hard is it to grow a Bonsai tree?
You take a woody plant and put it in a pot.
And....you're done.
A tree in a pot, while technically a Bonsai tree isn't impressive, nor is it hard to do. Like outdoor ditch weed.
A beautiful well crafted work of art bonsai grown for decades placed in a meticulously hand crafted pot takes tons of time and work. Like decent-to-good pot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonsai_cultivation_and_care
edit: It'd be a good analogy, if growing good pot took tonnes of time and work
Also, ditch weed != weed, at least no more than a german shepherd is a miniature schnauzer. Growing outdoors does not make weed into ditch weed. Being wild and completely interbred (most notably with the cannabis we used for hemp, which might as well not have any THC at all) makes ditch weed ditch weed.
Anyhow, this is a silly tangent. There are a million good resources about this on the net if you want to actually learn about what is involved in growing pot and don't care to take my word for it. If you want, I'll link them in a PM.
David Simon will give us Season 6 of The Wire if it does.
If you make it illegal to own drugs, then you get caught into what can only be described as a never-ending war with extremely rich drug barons. You have successes, but the failures are generally larger. You keep drugs off the commerical streets, thus maintaining reasonably low addiction ratings, but you force it onto the black market, thus increasing violence and criminalisation of drug usage. You find a good part of your budget is spent in wars that are meaningless. Prohibition generally fails, as has been proven in the 20's against alcohol in the US of A.
If you make it legal to own or use drugs, then you get caught into an addiction spiral: much like you have to fund campaigns to point out the dangers of excessive alcohol usage, you'd have to fund campaigns to point out the dangers of excessive drug usage. The budget you spend on meaningless wars is now being spent in proper campaign reports. Your drug barons are destroyed, but the money earned from such capital is absorbed into pharmaceutical corporations who are no better (presuming most Government's would have no interest in nationalising drug output). Drugs are on the commercial streets, thus addiction rating increase unless proper moderation is enforced.
There is no end of the rainbow, there are only these two options. You either fight against drugs, knowing that in the end you'll never win, or you have to deal with fighting against the excessive usage of drugs. Much like smoking, much like alcohol.
This is an interesting post. It makes me think of how drug usage has not been curbed by current policy, while the harmful effects of tobacco and alcohol have in large part been mitigated by education campaigns. Drunk driving is not at all a thing like it was even 10 years ago.
However, I maintain that when drugs are illegal you still actually have to deal with addiction through means beyond prison. I say this because we have gone farther in banning drug use than any other country in the history of humankind, and the end result is full prisons and an overloaded justice system that requires us to provide alternative treatments despite the illegal status of drugs.
I also am seeing a false choice that many expostulate: ending prohibition means ending efforts to mitigate the harms of drug use. This is totally wrong and not something I have suggested. Even once prohibition is ended there will need to be addiction mitigation systems that force abusers into treatment. This is far preferable to prison, given that the glut of new treatment seekers can be absorbed by the mental health system, not only because it is vastly cheaper, but because the success rates are much higher in treatment than in prison. Hell, in prison you don't even have to quit drugs if you have something to trade with smugglers (such as your ass).
That said, I think the reality might be more complicated than a simple inverse correlation.
Not all drugs are equally addictive; it isn't entirely clear that if you were to legalize marijuana that would see addiction problems comparable to alcohol or nicotine.
IMO, part of the difficulty with addiction to legal drugs in the US is availability. You can buy alcohol or nicotine on literally any street corner in many states. It's easier to kick an addiction when you can avoid suppliers. Legalization doesn't have to mean "let gas stations sell it."
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Part of the problem in the US, overall, is that our "mental health system" isn't really a "system" per se. Sometimes getting arrested is the only way a person can obtain mental health care.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Pill Mills are something I've never heard of before, but it's splattered all over the newspapers today.
Is that deaths from all prescription drugs, or specifically from opioid pain medication?
Part of the insidiousness of opioid pills is that they don't kill a lot of people. An addict builds up a tolerance slowly until they're taking so much that they spend an onerous amount of time and money seeking out additional prescriptions. Deaths do occur, but they're relatively rare.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Or, you know, old people taking the correct amount of the correct prescription pill and get an adverse effect and still keel over from it.
That statistic says nothing about abuse.
My grandmother endangered her life because she ****ed up her diabetes prescription and sent her blood sugar level way down. It definitely happens.
On June 17, 1971, President Nixon told Congress that "if we cannot destroy the drug menace in America, then it will surely destroy us."
That is the day the war on drugs began.
Today marks the 40th anniversary of this American war. And the numbers are staggering.
We've spent over $1 trillion on this war. And what do we have to show for it? Right now, 2.3 million Americans are sitting in prison, while over 7.2 million people are currently part of the criminal justice system as a result of being on probation or parole -- a full 1 in every 32 adults. Because of the failed drug war, America now imprisons more people than any other nation on earth.
And we haven't cut drug use. We've only created a violent, multi-billion dollar underground industry responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands across the globe, especially in neighboring Mexico.
But there is an important reality starting to take hold: While there is still much to be done to end this war, more and more people are becoming aware of the problem -- and that there are solutions.
A fantastic sign of this is an op-ed written in the New York Times by former President Jimmy Carter entitled Call off the Global Drug War. We hope you'll read it -- then forward this email to your friends and family, and share President Carter's article on Facebook.
On this 40 year anniversary, let us take a pledge together. Let us pledge to make ending the drug war a priority -- and let us speak to everyone we know about why it is important to get involved. Your voice is needed now. Tell others what you know and have them join us. One person at a time, we will end this tragically failed policy and make America the Land of the Free, once again.
Sincerely,
Richard Lee
Board Member
Coalition for Cannabis Policy Reform
Coalition for Cannabis Policy Reform
Click Here to unsubscribe.
Montell Williams on medical mj and opiate based pills
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/06/15/exp.am.intv.montel.williams.mpg.cnn
Try something rational and evidence based instead, right?
Pretty sure you're too late on that one.
The measure, entitled the ‘Ending Federal Marijuana Prohibition Act of 2011,’ prohibits the federal government from prosecuting adults who use or possess marijuana by removing the plant and its primary psychoactive constituent, THC, from the five schedules of the United States Controlled Substances Act of 1970.
Under present law, all varieties of the marijuana plant are defined as illicit Schedule I controlled substances, defined as possessing ‘a high potential for abuse,’ and ‘no currently accepted medical use in treatment.’
The ‘Ending Federal Marijuana Prohibition Act’ seeks to federally deregulate the personal possession and use of marijuana by adults. It marks the first time that members of Congress have introduced legislation to eliminate the federal criminalization of marijuana since the passage of the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937.
Language in this Act mimics changes enacted by Congress to repeal the federal prohibition of alcohol. Passage of this measure would remove the existing conflict between federal law and the laws of those sixteen states that allow for the limited use of marijuana under a physicians’ supervision. It would also allow state governments that wish to fully legalize and regulate the responsible use, possession, and production of marijuana for all adults to be free to do so without federal interference.
Ron Paul and Barney Frank introduced the bill. Sure seems like there has been a LOT of talk about this lately, from increasingly powerful people.
twit feed
It won't pass but it's nice to see responsible laws toward pot finally being considered by serious politicians.
This is literally the only topic Ron Paul and I agree on and I'm getting a little vertigo just thinking about that.
The Great Depression killed alcohol prohibition. The Great Recession is looking like it could kill, at the very least, mj prohibition.
That's a very good point, hadn't thought of it that way.
And yeah, definitely won't pass, but it's becoming a more and more public conversation/debate every day. Really feels like we're quickly approaching the tipping point where legalization becomes innevatable.
twit feed
You think a Socalist and a Libertarian are going to combine forces and undo prohibition in the US?
Good luck with that one.