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[DnD+GW 4E Discussion] Distinctly lacks anything to Jenga

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I was doing a lot of this in my Dark Sun and Eberron game. Depending on where the players rested, they could gain bonuses or even a penalty on their surges. Resting in an area with water in Dark Sun for example gave a bonus to surges, but required a dangerous trip backwards and forwards over the desert. Resting outside gave a penalty (that was cumulative until you rested somewhere appropriate) and so on. In the Eberron game, only resting in the nearby town was considered safe and underground areas were merely neutral - but due to being in the wilderness could risk open attack by enemies. Resting in the open due to the biting cold imposed a similar penalty.

    These "soft" penalties enforce attempting to make more use of time and doing more than 1-2 encounters, but leaves the decision making to the players as to how they handle things. Being attacked trying to get back to a safe area is a very risky prospect and gives all the power to the PCs in choosing how they approach things. "Timed" elements like the Sun Sphere* in Dark Sun and the Wendigo gaining power over time helped to provide impetus for the players - but didn't give them a blatant "Keep adventuring or I'm totally going to make you lose!" element (as neither made subsequent encounters impossible - just more difficult).

    *If you've played command and conquer and remember the Obelisk of Light, it's like that but much worse.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    bssbss Brostoyevsky Madison, WIRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote:
    So the elemental book has a paragon path that lets you have a genie in a bottle. It even grants Limited Wishes! <3

    Hang on, back up the thread a moment. Limited wishes? What?

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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    bss wrote:
    Incenjucar wrote:
    So the elemental book has a paragon path that lets you have a genie in a bottle. It even grants Limited Wishes! <3

    Hang on, back up the thread a moment. Limited wishes? What?

    http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20120130

    Limited Wish as a daily utility power you can use on you or one adjacent ally.

    You can choose from:
    * Target regains an encounter utility power
    * Target treats its next miss before the end of the encounter as a hit.
    *Target gains a +2 bonus to defenses until the end of the encounter.
    *Target gains training in one skill until the end of the encounter.

    Use that second one right before the most important daily attack of the day. <3

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    bssbss Brostoyevsky Madison, WIRegistered User regular
    Oh. Fuck.

    I think I'd DM that as the intelligent things realizing they're soon to be boned, and trying to avoid that character like the plague, but still. Nice.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    House Rule!
    Level 11: Genie in a Bottle

    The spirit whispers advice and lends its aid as long as it has the power to do so.

    Benefit: You gain a +1 power bonus to skill checks and saving throws. If this bonus results in your passing a check you would have otherwise failed, you must sing the Christina Aguilera song of the same name as this feature.

    hippofant on
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    As in the whole song? Or just the chorus?

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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Constant flight from mid paragon has been in since Divine Power. Favoured Soul, Avenger Paragon Path.

    Heaven's Boon (16th level): A pair of feathery wings unfolds from your back, and you gain a fly speed of 6. You can use this speed only if you are wearing no armor or light armor.

    I'm 13th level at the moment and very much looking forward to my time of emergence to full glory.

    Hell, I've had two turns of flight per encounter since level 10 so the DM has had plenty of time to get used to the idea.

    Jam Warrior on
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    BitstreamBitstream Registered User regular
    So my 4E group is about to lose its tank, and I'm talking with one of my players about rebuilding his somewhat-boring-to-play-but-fuckawesome-damage Ranger into more of a tank to fill the gap. He's currently playing a stealthy, dodgy Kenku and would like to stay close to that theme (i.e no heavy armor/shield), so I ask you - is there a viable dodge-tank build at level 5? We've played around and gotten 22 AC (pre conditional power bonuses) out of a Ranger/Fighter hybrid, but it won't be nearly as effective as the current 25 AC Paladin.

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    bssbss Brostoyevsky Madison, WIRegistered User regular
    I'd start by looking at the harrier battlemind. Primary abilities are Int (probably doing you no good) and Dex. The only other thing that comes to mind is swordmage, just because it doesn't have heavy armor and one of the builds teleports you around, but I don't think it shares anything with a usual ranger build.

    To be honest though I don't think much of anything is going to work together with that well mathematically, but indeed it could be fun to play.

    3DS: 2466-2307-8384 PSN: bssteph Steam: bsstephan Twitch: bsstephan
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    AegofAegof Registered User regular
    Avengers can get their AC pretty high, and some builds are expected to sort-of tank a little on their own. Light/no armor, Int/Dex secondaries, a couple feats can add like +3 to AC in Heroic. Have some stealthy powers, which can help with the theme.

    You don't really need a tank. Defenders aren't that essential, even if they're pretty great to have.

    I'm providing ambience.
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    There really is no must-have class so long as your DM isn't entirely blind to party composition. Sending tons of high-HP monsters after a strikerless party can get boring, as can tons of lurkers in a leaderless party, but otherwise it's fine.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    What was the link to those home-brew rules for faster combat? I need to take another look at them.

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    GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote:
    What was the link to those home-brew rules for faster combat? I need to take another look at them.

    Yo

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    bssbss Brostoyevsky Madison, WIRegistered User regular
    Bitstream wrote:
    So my 4E group is about to lose its tank, and I'm talking with one of my players about rebuilding his somewhat-boring-to-play-but-fuckawesome-damage Ranger into more of a tank to fill the gap. He's currently playing a stealthy, dodgy Kenku and would like to stay close to that theme (i.e no heavy armor/shield), so I ask you - is there a viable dodge-tank build at level 5? We've played around and gotten 22 AC (pre conditional power bonuses) out of a Ranger/Fighter hybrid, but it won't be nearly as effective as the current 25 AC Paladin.

    I just noticed that there's a berserker in the Feywild book. Defender/striker mix, light armor, strength and dexterity based, gets one of those defender auras that are all the rage in Essentials-y material. Might be worth looking at. (I have no idea how it plays.)

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    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    If you're prepared to really optimise for defence, you can get some pretty insane AC values out of a halfling Avenger too, though they tend to have less HP than you'd want in a full tank.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Is there a primer for the Points of Light setting?

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    SJSJ College. Forever.Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Not really that I'm aware of, but there's plenty of information on the Nentir Vale available, which is where pretty much all the PoL stuff has been set in so far.

    Really though, the PoL isn't really a whole, detailed setting like Forgotten Realms. Most of it is left vague because it's up to you to fill in the details.

    SJ on
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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    There's a decent amount of info in the DM's guide, I just wasn't sure if the geography had been extended beyond the Vale.

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    SJSJ College. Forever.Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Just do a GIS for 'points of light map,' it should be the first result. It's a high-rest version of the Conquest of Nerath or whatever DnD risk style boardgame that came out not too long ago.

    SJ on
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    For the life of me I can't remember or find this anywhere: Do you add any bonuses to Effect line riders which do damage?

    Ex- A power has the Implement keyword and on an Effect line creates a zone which deals +WIS mod damage to an enemy if they end their turn in it. Does this damage benefit from your Implement enhancement bonus as part of the power?

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
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    bssbss Brostoyevsky Madison, WIRegistered User regular
    "A magic implement adds an enhancement bonus to the attack rolls and damage rolls of attack powers used with the implement. The bonus does not apply to any ongoing damage dealt by those powers."

    Rules Compendium, p.283. It's not a direct answer but that's the closest I remember seeing, so no.

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    Right, not a damage roll. Thanks.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
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    dresdenphiledresdenphile Watch out for snakes!Registered User regular
    I was messing around with a Bladesinger in the builder, and I'm a bit confused. The class is built around MBA, but is it supposed to use INT as the base stat for making them?

    The "recommended" stats are INT and DEX, which seems odd, if you're primarily smacking people with swords all day, er'ry day.

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Well they get this as a class feature at level 1:
    INSTINCTIVE ATTACK
    When you make a melee basic attack with a weapon you wield in one hand, you can use Intelligence instead of Strength for the attack roll and the damage roll.

    Essentially they get Intelligent Blademaster from Swordmages for free.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote:
    Well they get this as a class feature at level 1:
    INSTINCTIVE ATTACK
    When you make a melee basic attack with a weapon you wield in one hand, you can use Intelligence instead of Strength for the attack roll and the damage roll.

    Essentially they get Intelligent Blademaster from Swordmages for free.

    I see what you did there

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    dresdenphiledresdenphile Watch out for snakes!Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    After messing around a bit more, I realized that I didn't have a weapon equipped. As soon as I did that, all the appropriate attack bonuses populated.

    What's odd is that Claw Fighter Claw is listed as a possible weapon type for bladespells. However, most of the class features say "If you're wielding a weapon in one hand and the other hand is empty..." The CF feat specifically says that if you have CF, you are considered to have a weapon in both hands, so those effects would never trigger.

    dresdenphile on
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    After messing around a bit more, I realized that I didn't have a weapon equipped. As soon as I did that, all the appropriate attack bonuses populated.

    What's odd is that Claw Fighter Claw is listed as a possible weapon type for bladespells. However, most of the class features say "If you're wielding a weapon in one hand and the other hand is empty..." The CF feat specifically says that if you have CF, you are considered to have a weapon in both hands, so those effects would never trigger.

    One big problem, rules-wise, in 4e were how weapons/implement were handled. There are a lot loopholes and confusing constructs. Like, for a while, you would have to have two implements for some multiclass powers, and it just made the multiclass power swap feats pretty shitty for a lot of casters. Double weapons were a problem, and still are to an extent, though they've cleaned up SOME of them, by establishing them as stout (2h) or offhand (1h/1h). DS ones didn't get cleaned up though. That's why I think I'd support limiting each class to a specific gear-set, and if you want to play a fucking 2H-weapon ranger, then you just houserule it or reskin a barbarian.

    hippofant on
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote:
    Is there a primer for the Points of Light setting?

    Not an official one, but I've been slowly putting together a list of all the locations mentioned in 4E's sourcebooks.

    Here's what I've got at the moment:

    Alb – The conjurers known as the Immaculate Star ruled this city for over a year through the use of an army of creatures composed of cold fire. A resistance group dispelled the creatures by enchanting the city cathedral's bell.
    Aurunia Palace – One of the six cities of the Akarot, this sprawling estate was ruled by the narcissistic human known as Teros the Perfect.
    Ayrkashna – According to legend, the city-state of Ayrkashna was the location in which the deva race first incarnated in the world. The city's location is lost to history, but might still exist somewhere.
    Elkridge - A small farming community that sits at the edge of what was once the Arkhosian empire. Elkridge is terrorized by both yuan-ti and bandits. The floating dragonborn fortress Ustraternes levitates nearby.
    The Empty City – One of the six cities of the Akarot, this joyless state was ruled by the shadar-kai Kartan. Portals to the Shadowfell can be found in the city's ruins, including one leading to the port of Gloomwrought.
    The Endless Desert – This desert was once a verdant valley that hosted a prosperous civilization. Some unknown disaster caused its mountains to collapse into the valley, possibly as a punishment for the citizens' use of defiling magic.
    Ghest – This legendary flying city was said to have been created by archmagi and demigods. An unknown catastrophe caused the magical forces allowing Ghest's flight to fail. People known now as the shepherds lead the survivors of Ghest's fall away from the city's ruins and dangerous, uncontrollable magic surges. The sheperds aided the people in rebuilding their lives. The descendants of these shepherds are said to know the location of Ghest's ruins.
    Hailblight Peak – The tower of the cambion warlock Gorzia the Despised stands atop this inhospitable mountain.
    Hantumah – Formerly known as Khatiroon, a powerful lich conquered the nation and transformed it into a nation of undead.
    Hrumdar's Horn – One of the fabled six cities of the Akarot, it was ruled by the minotaur Hrumdar. The city was built inside a mountain by feral minotaurs loyal to Baphomet. Expansive labyrinths were built beneath the city, and captives from surrounding lands were released into the mazes for sport.
    Karakho – One of the Six Kingdoms. Strange phenomena occur in this land, perhaps due to the arcane experiments funded by its mage kings. The arcane scholars of Karakho don't often see eye-to-eye with the priestly class of Tarod.
    Laga – The Smoking Waste and one of the six cities of the Akarot, the dwarf Farndak enslaved thousands and forced them to toil in his city's mine and smoke-belching factories.
    Mahin Fields – One of the Six Kingdoms. It is a leading producer of wheat and barley.
    Murisov – One of the Six Kingdoms. This mining nation was led by a line of warrior kings.
    Nageo – Once a major port and trade hub, Nageo was a prime target for pirates and goblin raiders. The wealthy city created a defense force known as the Kamestiri and outfitted each member with a magical uniform. A prince, jealous of the Kamestiri's popularity and power, sent the soldiers on a doomed expedition. The prince was himself assassinated without leaving behind an heir, resulting in Nageo falling to its rivals.
    Nera – The fallen capital of Nerath. Though much of the ruin is haunted by demons and gnolls, some particularly stubborn natives continue to reside there against all odds.
    Nizh – One of the Six Kingdoms. Boasts a trading fleet.
    Pak Suth – This dying city-state was once ruled by the benevolent Witch King Tulari, but is now succumbing to the actions of rebels.
    The Road of Sleet – The glacier known as the Road of Sleet has asserted itself atop an ancient city in the Frostfell. It is now protected by the dragon Niflung.
    Stormkissed Plain – Location where the warriors known as the Nine Furies slew the catastrophic dragon Borstod the Blasphemer.
    Synnith Ordan – One of the six cities of the Akarot, this eladrin Feyspire was secretly ruled by a fomorian king known as Haggaron.
    Tarod – One of the Six Kingdoms. Tarod's citizens worship in is grand cathedrals and learn in its expansive universities. The priestly class of Tarod often disapproves of the actions of Karakho's mages.
    Taru Maaj – A ruined city that was once part of Bael Turath, Taru Maaj boasted the greatest storehouse of knowledge in the empire. The library and its keeper, known as the Luminary, have long since vanished.
    Urual – The Defier of Tides and one of the six cities of the Akarot, Urual held fast against the pounding waves of the sea thanks to its magical sea walls. Rom Kala the Sealord ruled a vast fleet of pirate ships, and upon his death a great tidal wave smashed his city.
    Veratur – This vast nation spread itself too thin, allowing marauding tribes of orcs and goblins to lay siege to the populace. Monstrous hordes attack the monarch's palace constantly, forcing the leaders of Veratur's cities to break away from the nation and fend for themselves.
    Xelfide – This town was a sinful place before a cleric of Pelor named Koslin managed to redeem its people. Koslin was slain 50 years ago by the unrepentant before they fled Xelfide to live in the nearby frontier. The bandit gangs started by those villains plague the town, and Xelfide's corrupt leaders are slowly turning the settlement back to debauchery.
    Zvestik – One of the Six Kingdoms. The rulers of Zvestik are dedicated to protecting the nation's ancient forests.

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    *twitch* WoTC...you do not alphabetize a list with a title starting with "The" showing up in the T section. Took me a good few minutes looking for The Book of Vile Darkness at the top of the list only to find out you put it halfway down the drop-down menu.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    What's the damage die for an unarmed attack?

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote:
    What's the damage die for an unarmed attack?

    1d4

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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Well there goes my idea for an amputee fighter. A fighter who's an amputee not someone who fights amputees. That'd be mean.

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Fighters do have Brawler Style which give them +2 to unarmed attacks and lets them qualify for Brutal Brawler which increases strike damage to d6 or d8 with spiked gauntlets.

    Or you can take Master of the Fist, the multiclass monk option that gives you the Unarmed Combatant class feature (unarmed strikes turn into +3 proficiency, off-hand, 1d8 weapons and benefit from ki focuses).

    Edit: You probably want to go:

    * Fighter Brawler Style (+2/4/6 enhancement to unarmed strikes)
    * Master of the Fist (gain Unarmed Combatant class feature)
    * Improved Monk Unarmed Strike (increase to d10s)

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    It seems to me like you should be able to wear spiked gauntlets and carry a weapon at the same time.

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    Lord PalingtonLord Palington he.him.his History-loving pal!Registered User regular
    I don't really see anything wrong with that. One of my players rolls as a brawler fighter with a long sword and a spiked gauntlet, and I let 'em go two-handed for the extra damage on stuff like Cleave.

    SrUxdlb.jpg
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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Character builder doesn't like it.

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    I don't think you can have them both "equipped" but I think there's an option to have it at least include that weapon in your power cards.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote:
    Character builder doesn't like it.

    CBLoader seems to let me do it.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote:
    Fighters do have Brawler Style which give them +2 to unarmed attacks and lets them qualify for Brutal Brawler which increases strike damage to d6 or d8 with spiked gauntlets.

    Or you can take Master of the Fist, the multiclass monk option that gives you the Unarmed Combatant class feature (unarmed strikes turn into +3 proficiency, off-hand, 1d8 weapons and benefit from ki focuses).

    Edit: You probably want to go:

    * Fighter Brawler Style (+2/4/6 enhancement to unarmed strikes)
    * Master of the Fist (gain Unarmed Combatant class feature)
    * Improved Monk Unarmed Strike (increase to d10s)

    No need to stop there, sir!

    Shock Trooper paragon path increases your off-hand weapon damage dice, so now you'll be punching with d12s!

    Best of all, it's a Fighter paragon path, so you'll already be specced for it.

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    GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    Or instead of MCing monk, you could go barbarian and pick up the Hurl Weapon feat (treat offhand weapons as heavy thrown), then pick Deft Hurler style (make an RBA instead of extra damage from Cleave).

    Your character is now rayman.

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