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Verbally Aggressive Neighbor - Legal / Official Options?
spool32
Contrary LibraryRegistered User, Transition Team regular
Contrary LibraryRegistered User, Transition Team regular
Background:
My wife is nearly recovered from PTSD stemming from an assault in our home while we lived in Ireland. She has Fibromyalgia, and has difficulty walking down the street some days. She often uses a wheelchair to get around the store because the walking is too much.
I have a large white Akita, whom I walk two or three times a day because he's allergic to the weeds in our backyard. I unfailingly clean up after the Akita, in view of anyone who happens to look. The Akita sheds huge clumps of white fur twice a year, and I brush him outside in my yard, where the wind will blow it away and the birds can make nests from it. When he's blowing his coat, I can pull handsfull of hair off him, and I often do this while I'm walking him.
My next-door neighbor uses her hose to spray off her driveway after mowing the lawn, and during mandatory water restrictions this is illegal - you may only water on two specific days per week, and may not spray water or even set your sprinkler to spray water on concrete surfaces. Two years ago I reported the neighbor to the police for this, and she was probably fined several hundred dollars.
Today:
The neighbor is convinced that I let my dog poop in her yard. She came to my house while I wasn't home and yelled at my 13yr old son, then fled before my wife could get to the door. I do not leave the dog poop in anyone's yard. My wife went outside to confront her about screaming at the kids and the neighbor was furious about white hair in her yard, claimed we were lying about the dog poop, and threatened to call the police if she ever found any more. She called my wife a "fat-ass bitch" for not cleaning up the dog hair, and said she was the laziest person the neighbor has ever seen. She brought up the water restriction violation as proof of what a bastard I am.
Questions:
1) Are these empty threats? Can you call the police about dog poop in your yard?
2) Is there any legal way to prevent this woman from coming to my front door again? My wife's PTSD trigger is directly related to people coming to the front door and threatening things. Will a posted No Trespassing sign and a written warning not to come onto the property again suffice? Having her feel safe in our home is extremely important to her mental well-being.
Ideas?
My wife is nearly recovered from PTSD stemming from an assault in our home while we lived in Ireland. She has Fibromyalgia, and has difficulty walking down the street some days. She often uses a wheelchair to get around the store because the walking is too much.
I have a large white Akita, whom I walk two or three times a day because he's allergic to the weeds in our backyard. I unfailingly clean up after the Akita, in view of anyone who happens to look. The Akita sheds huge clumps of white fur twice a year, and I brush him outside in my yard, where the wind will blow it away and the birds can make nests from it. When he's blowing his coat, I can pull handsfull of hair off him, and I often do this while I'm walking him.
My next-door neighbor uses her hose to spray off her driveway after mowing the lawn, and during mandatory water restrictions this is illegal - you may only water on two specific days per week, and may not spray water or even set your sprinkler to spray water on concrete surfaces. Two years ago I reported the neighbor to the police for this, and she was probably fined several hundred dollars.
Today:
The neighbor is convinced that I let my dog poop in her yard. She came to my house while I wasn't home and yelled at my 13yr old son, then fled before my wife could get to the door. I do not leave the dog poop in anyone's yard. My wife went outside to confront her about screaming at the kids and the neighbor was furious about white hair in her yard, claimed we were lying about the dog poop, and threatened to call the police if she ever found any more. She called my wife a "fat-ass bitch" for not cleaning up the dog hair, and said she was the laziest person the neighbor has ever seen. She brought up the water restriction violation as proof of what a bastard I am.
Questions:
1) Are these empty threats? Can you call the police about dog poop in your yard?
2) Is there any legal way to prevent this woman from coming to my front door again? My wife's PTSD trigger is directly related to people coming to the front door and threatening things. Will a posted No Trespassing sign and a written warning not to come onto the property again suffice? Having her feel safe in our home is extremely important to her mental well-being.
Ideas?
spool32 on
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Two, have you tried calling the same number that you used to report her for watering her lawn? Honestly, I'd go speak with her first about the incident at your door, and then if she's still aggressive about it, warn her to stay away, and if she does it again, THEN call the police.
If your dog's fur is blowing into her yard and it is noticible I can also see being annoyed about it.
Calling the city is not the dick-move here. Wasting hundreds of gallons of water spraying your driveway is the dick-move.
To maintain good neighborly relations, you should have spoken with her first. What she did was done. She didn't murder anyone. I understand you're angry, but you need to look at things with a longterm point of view. You've now created a potentially very shitty situation and you're reaping the results of it. You might want to attempt to defuse the situation instead of getting really, really, really angry over a one time thing (her watering). At the moment, all you're doing is throwing gasoline on the fire by calling the police again. She became just as angry at you over your calling of the police as you're becoming over this. Neither of you is really in the right here.
Yeah, shit in her front yard is probably something she could call you on. Her yelling at your son? Probably not.
2.) I would call the police and ask. You can always put up 'No Trespassing' signs, but that won't guarantee or stop people from coming to your door
Don't worry about it. Water restrictions are a dick and you had every right to notify the police. Just claim you didn't call the police, it should've been anonymous anyways.
Let her know she is more than welcome to file civil suit for damages to her property that random hair or dog shit has caused if she can prove it was you. Let her know that you will make your best efforts to clean up after your dog (always clean the shit, I trust you bro).
Honestly I'd clean up the hair too, I'd be pretty angry if after a long day at work I come home and my lawn was covered in white hair.
Let her know if she comes verbally berating your wife or your child that you will contact the police next time. Leave it at that. She's pretty clearly not a neighbor you want to mend relationship with as she's pretty vindictive and just a general asshole all around.
2. Go over and have a polite conversation. Explain that your wife has a medical condition, your children are minors, and any complaints she has should be directed to you, personally, when you arrive home from work at X:00. Don't bring up any of the incredibly rude shit she said, just request that she speak to you and you alone because your wife's condition is exacerbated by stress & confrontation.
(And yeah, I can kind of see her side of the issue if your dog is shedding heaps and heaps of hair and it's ending up on her property. Better to bag it and avoid the conflict.)
You should at least be bagging it up (It sounds like you are just letting it all blow away?), and you might have a hard time proving its not your dogs shit if their yard has tufts of your dogs hair next to shit. We brushed our akita on our screened in porch, and when we moved, I just did it inside on a hard wood floor. If you don't want to do that, find a groomer.
Good luck bro, hope your wife has some good days to make up for this nonsense. Disabilities are hard shit.
I doubt your neighbor was flipping out over just one pile of poop or some tuffs of hair. More than likely she is angry about the police thing and many other things and just had a moment where her self control and perspective lapsed. I cringe when I think about mistakes I've made when angry and wish I could take them back, hopefully your neighbor will have some sense of shame and that will keep her behavior under better control in the future. You might not have to do anything except to get past this one unpleasant experience.
You mentioned that your backyard has weeds in it that bother your dog. Maybe those weeds bother your neighbor too. She obviously is some kind of neat freak to spend money on water just to waste it so living next door to someone with a messy yard probably pushes her buttons too.
Even if you clean up the pile of poop when your animal makes then you may still be annoying people by spraying urine and shit smears on their property, especially if they can't use the hose to wash it away thoroughly. Maybe you could avoid more trouble by treating the weeds on your property and letting your dog do his business on your land.
Having a big dog is a big responsibility and it is unfair that even responsible owners get flak because almost everyone has had bad experiences with big dog owners not living up to their responsibilities. I'd have no way of knowing if you are being treated unfairly but I think you probably are just from the amount of prejudice I know exists against big dogs. I think we both know that there is some amount of people who just don't like big dogs and especially big dogs that are breed for hunting or fighting. Some of that may underlie this situation and even when it is unfair it is still part of the job of having big dogs.
1. Groom your dog inside, or get it groomed somewhere.
2. Don't let your dog shit in other peoples' backyard. Even if you clean it up.
3. Go apologize to your neighbor for the dog hair. Be nice, and mention your wife's situation. I'm sure he won't verbally abuse you then.
why should he play nice now?
Because an eye for an eye is not a good idea when you have to live next to someone.
People say and do things in the heat of the moment. For example, his snapping and calling the cops on her instead of just talking with her.
Being malicious in return is never a good idea if you want to actually resolve anything while maintaining civility in the real world.
This is a good suggestion. Explain to him what you're going to do to change the grooming situation and if he continues to have a problem with dog hair in his backyard, to talk to you about it directly and not your son or wife as a proxy.
Also mentioned by others, this is probably the best advice. It puts the ball back in her court, and if she wants to be play Calvinball, it's her turn to run past the sprinkler... wait, where was I going? Oh yes, by explaining this to her, she can either be rational or crazy. And based on her choice, you can deal with her accordingly.
I used to think it was a real folksy saying until I got a hosue of my own, but good fences do make for good neighbors.
That is one area in this story where you are 100% unarguably in the wrong.
The rest is on her, though.
Secondly, you could always seek a restraining order or whatever is equivalent where you may be. However, I don't see anything that she's done that would meet the standards. If she knew of your wife's condition and continued to take action in such a way as to try and harass her, then a restraining order could be reasonably sought.
Finally, I'd suggest not giving her a reason to come to your door. Be a good neighbor to her, and don't complain about the watering or other little things of the like. I don't care if you're right or wrong, take care of your wife, even if it means picking up the dog shit of others.
Because he's an adult and a homeowner. Acting like a teenage shit head isn't usually the wisest course of action when dealing with people that you may be living less than 100 yards from for a decade or two.
This isn't really a hard and fast grooming issue. Dogs that get winter coats shed over time when spring/summer comes around so grooming the dog elsewhere isn't really an option. It's an ongoing process and, having had a friend with a dog that sheds like this (a malamute) it's really not a big deal. It blows away and doesn't hurt anyone.
I don't know if this is common place everywhere but here when you're walking your dog you let it shit where it needs to shit and then pick it up. You can't tell your dog to hold it until you get home.
Everywhere I've lived you simply don't allow your dog onto your neighbors property because that would be rude. Your dog doesn't have to wander to grass to poo and if it does you need to keep it to your yard or a dog park but your neighbors property is not the place for it.
2) Call the police and explain the situation, but first talk to her. I'm not under the impression this woman knows what your wife is going through so maybe you should tell her and explain to her how important it is that she stays away.
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Well, you have a wife who needs specific living conditions to have a pleasant day and your children are minors. From my family's experience with the neighbor that pulled a knife on my mother, keyed her car, and had a police record inches thick, you have the moral high ground; this means that your neighbor's goal will be to pull you down from the position and get down in the mud with them.
Do research into what property laws this person may have done and what the trespass laws and signage will do to help keep your family secure.
What you don't want to do is let yourself get baited by this individual into blowing up in front of some witnesses they have nearby. For the sake of your family, play the victim, let your neighbor play the fool and bury themselves in their own shit.
Maybe I missed something here, but couldn't this be fixed rather easily?
e: For the need to let your dog do its business elsewhere, I mean.
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There is some truth to this. I have a fenced in yard and a 40 lb dog who has LONG legs and loves to run. I don't NEED to walk her, but for her health it's nice to take her for a walk outside the yard from time to time. Fortunately we have tree lined trails throughout our subdivision that doesn't involve anyones yard and I can let me dog crap beside the trail, bag it, and it doesn't bother anyone.
The neighbor was out of line for yelling at your kid and for insulting your wife, not knowing her situation. It was wrong. That said, I can understand her being peeved at the dog hair on her yard, the front yard more so than the back, but either is annoying.
Also just because you bag the poop, doesn't mean it doesn't leave a smear. If it's a big dog I assume large piles of crap, which means large smears. If you walk your dog several time each day, every day, and one of the first stop is in front of your neighbors house this can relate to several spots on the yard. In a place with frequent water restrictions I can assume the grass doesn't grow fast enough to be cut weekly and can see this as a problem.
I didn't buy the dog, the dog isn't my responsibilty, I might not even like dogs. I might have children or grandchildren who I would like to be able to play in my yard, perhaps bare foot, without worry of them stepping in a smear or ANY trace of repeated dog poopings. I paid for that house and yard and would be very peeved at something like this.
My rule of thumb is:
If anything you or your dog does on a regular basis causes more work or fuss for a neighbor then you are doing something wrong, and should stop and/or apologize and find a solution.
The best advise has already been repeated several times. A calm chat, tell her to direct any futures issues she has with you directly not with a 13 yr old or your wife who has a medical condition and is not simply lazy and also has stress issues already. Tell her you didn't appreciate the way she handled it thus far, but that you understand and will seek a solution to the hair.
Tell her matter of factly that you don't leave dog poop EVER and that if it bothers her you won't even let your dog poop in/near her yard regardless of of you picking it up.
Actually, dogs greatly prefer to do their business on the grass. Also, it's not like your dog is wandering through people's yards. It's just that when you walk it the dog may saunter off the sidewalk and slightly onto someone's yard.
I'm really surprised this is an issue. I mean, they're dogs and they poop. If you're picking it up I don't see the problem.
Also, to the guy that said if you have a yard that means you don't have to walk your dog - I hope you don't have a dog.
Though if you live in communities where your yard can be mowed with 5 minutes and a weedwacker, then, we may have conflicting views on what is an average yard.
Your dog doing the business on your yard instead of on a walk is different than walking them, though. It's not the primary focus of why you're out. Where they're likely to take 20 steps and take a shit.
I want to address some of the comments, but one in particular right now - the akita is 95lbs and can sprint across my quarter-acre back yard in less than 2s. He does actually need a long walk, at least a mile if I have time, preferably every day. Even if I were to come into enough money to till under and regrow the grass in my backyard and keep it watered throughout the Texas drought, I'd still need to take him on regular long walks during which he will almost certainly poop. Also, this brings me to another H/A post I've been meaning to make!
Thanks, and if you have other ideas for how to deter her from coming back to the house I'd appreciate it. Right now, my wife is battling the irrational desire to pack up the family and flee to a hotel because the house is no longer safe.
She knows this is irrational, and that dissonance is the core of PTSD. Your brain says to panic because danger is all around you, your body reacts with all the fight/flight responses, but your mind knows none of it is real. We'll get through it (we've weathered much worse over the last few years) but it's really awful for her.
I hope all turns out well for your family.
Have a nice day
If she does it again, i'd call the cops to at least get something on record if a restraining order is needed later. Do you both own your houses? that sucks....
However, some commenters suggest that even the act of pooping could be a public nuisance. I'm not sure how they figure I walk the dog, but he's never off-lead and doesn't roam around people's front yards. He does like to walk onto the grass, and no it's never in a routine location. What did you think I was letting the animal do?
Yeah, I can feel you guys on the hair thing, especially since it's a uniform bright white. Dyson pet groomer, here I come.
Making nice with the neighbor: I honestly don't care overly much about this. The old biddy has been verbally aggressive since the week she moved in, and has even threatened to call the police if our dog jumps on our own fence. Our fence is impossible to break after I reinforced it three years ago following a neighbor's boxer breaking it down to charge my kids as they played football. The akita brought that animal down, holding it on the ground without harming it until the neighbors arrived and dragged it away. All I want is for her to permanently leave us alone, and to that end I've told the kids never to walk the dog past her house, or on the side of our yard between them. Hopefully that will stop her from feeling provoked.
Regarding the water violation reporting: It's never wrong to report a crime to the authorities, or to report it to them first before trying to stop the crime yourself. If you've never lived with water restrictions, you probably can't really understand how serious we take these things. I'm much less interested in being nice in this regard than I am in stopping the huge waste of a scarce and finite resource. Sadly, it doesn't seem to have worked well - she's still spraying off the driveway rather than sweeping it, and we're on voluntary restriction right now. If she keeps it up when we flip over to mandatory, I'll call the city again in a heartbeat.
Also, the police suggested I send a formal letter informing the neighbor that she's unwelcome, and that since she wasn't physically aggressive they can't act to restrain her until I've made it clear she's to have no contact.
Below in spoilers, you'll find the letter I'm mailing her today. Doing this seems to have helped my wife feel a lot safer, and I hope the whole situation will begin to die down.
I’m [name], and I live at [address], next door to you. We’ve lived here since 2005, and I don’t think I’ve ever spoken more than ten words to you.
However, you’ve spoken several words to my family, mostly vulgarity, slander, and threats to my kids about one of our dogs. I’m writing you to request formally that you cease any and all communication with any of my children, and with my wife. I wish to make perfectly clear that you and your representatives are not welcome on my property, and that your presence on my property will in the future be referred to the police as a matter of criminal trespass. This includes coming to my door for any reason. Below you’ll find the explanations why I’m forced to take this action, and how you might contact me in the event you or your representatives have a need to do so.
Firstly, my children are minors. That should be enough, as any problems with a minor child ought reasonably to be addressed with the child’s parent. I can understand polite and sensible requests made directly to my kids, and in fact I support entirely any adult correcting our children’s behavior in an adult manner. However, you've chosen otherwise, using foul language when complaining about excrement to my 13yr old son. He has been unfailingly polite and respectful toward you, and you’ve responded with, at various times, cursing at him, threatening to take his dog away, loudly insulting him to 3rd parties where he can overhear, and threatening to call the police. Since you’ve demonstrated that you cannot deal reasonably with my children as an adult, I’m formally requesting that you no longer speak to them at all. Further communication with my children may result in legal action to prevent you from doing so.
Secondly, my wife is partially disabled. I know you’re aware of this, as you’ve seen me take her up and down the street for fresh air in the wheelchair she sometimes needs, seen me assist her into and out of our house, and seen me take the wheelchair into and out of our van dozens of times. What you’re not aware of is that she also suffers from PTSD connected with a violent assault at our front door some years ago. Your aggressive and foul-mouthed screaming, unfounded threats and accusations, and hostile behavior are extremely detrimental to her health. Since you’ve proved yourself willing to engage in verbally aggressive behavior toward her, and to threaten my family at our front door, and since her medical condition is often triggered by confrontations such as these, I’m formally requesting that you refrain from crossing onto our property, from coming to the door for any reason, and from speaking to her for any reason. Further disregard of these requests will result in referral to the police as a matter of criminal trespass and/or assault. I should also warn you that we sometimes engage in video monitoring of our property, and that you may be recorded should you decide to disregard this request.
In the matter of accusations of dog excrement on your property, let me say that I always clean up after our dogs, and teach my children to do the same. Neighbors up and down the street are happy to testify to the fact that they have seen me on multiple occasions cleaning dog waste, and other neighbors have praised my kids for their diligence in the matter. If you’re finding dog waste on your yard, it’s not from my animals. However, in the interest of good relations, I’ve instructed my kids not to walk our dogs along your section of the sidewalk, and not to walk them in the space between our houses. I hope you find whoever is leaving dog waste in your yard, because they’ve also done it in mine.
In the matter of dog hair, I can understand how it might annoy you if hair from our dog blows into your yard on windy days. I’ll make every effort not to let it happen, and I’m sorry if it caused you any trouble.
If you have any need to contact me for any reason, you can do so by emailing me at name@domain.tld or calling 555-555-5555. If I can’t answer immediately, I’ll respond after 7PM. Email will always be a more efficient way to contact me, and I may respond much more quickly than by phone. If you feel a need to meet in person, please call or email so that we can arrange a meeting location.
Once again, this is a formal request to refrain entirely from speaking with my children and with my wife, and for you or your representatives to refrain from trespass on my property for any reason. I am posting you a copy of this letter by certified mail to guarantee receipt, and placing one on file with my lawyers. Failure to respect these simple requests will result in the matter being referred to my lawyers and to the police. You may contact me anytime if you have concerns or business to conduct, and I’m happy to discuss this or any other matter with you in the hope we can resolve any issues amicably.
-my name
555-555-5555
name@domain.tld
I would also probably keep the statement of unacceptable behavior in one paragraph, towards the end and then place the formal request to stay away following. I would place your contact info in the beginning in the polite section before the confrontational section. It will have a much greater chance of being read then.
Nah its fine as is. If you're too much an idiot to read the entirety of a letter that is sent via certified mail, the consequences are on you.
Letters is fine, OP might want to invest in security cams or some other recording device, and theres the possibility she might fly of the handle and go break some windows or something.
Honestly, I'd go have a face to face talk with her first. You're really going overboard with this. If she after the talk continues to be aggressive, then do the letter. I think this letter is only going to make things worse.
EDIT:
This is over the top. Way over the top.
As for the letter, I agree with the arrangement. "I dont think I've spoken more then ten words to you." doesnt seem like the appropriate tone to start with. "We've had fairly limited communication, the best way to contact me are X and X, Please dont communicate wife because of X"
I would tone it so its as civil as possible, not to be nice to her, but to make sure nothing is coming off as... I dont know, purposeful agitation. "I know you’re aware of this," for instance isnt gaining you anything. You havent spoken to her at all, so just plainly lay it all out without all the "You know" this and "you should have thought better of" that. Its reads like a pretty angry letter, with some official language, basically.
edit: basically what esh said.